Once the Gulf is dead...

[Duer 157099]

Poll question: Once the Gulf is dead...

I sort of think that all of the oil companies secretly are rooting for the destruction of the Gulf's life because then there will be no reason to keep them out or to restrict them. It will already be so polluted that no life will exist there, and then the only livlihood to be gotten from the region is through the oil industry, so it will expand by great numbers. Oil "spills" won't get much attention because there won't be any ecosystem left to be protected.

Am I being too apocalyptic here?

[NoodleyAppendage]

1. We will eventually degrade into Soylent Green-like chaos. n/t

J

[HysteryDiagnosis]

2. Other... organisms that eat oil will be allowed to do their thing

and speed up the recovery exponentially. This will happen once BP has their collective asses kicked out of the picture.

[Posteritatis]

3. Other - the Gulf will not die from this. (nt)

[BeFree]

5. It won't die?

What part will survive?

Nearly all the science claims a great deal of death. Do you have some science that says otherwise? I'd be real happy to see that.

[Posteritatis]

6. It and other bodies of water have recieved vastly worse than this

Yes, I know, it's happening in US waters so that automatically makes it worse than anything foreign that's ever happened, but if you turn your head away from CNN and the panicfests around here you'll see that substantially worse has happened, and that the spill is not exactly affecting the entirety or even a majority of a very large body of water.

And spare me the "so you think it's all perfect and nothing's bad!" bullshit that invariably comes out in response to that, because I neither said nor implied anything close to thta.

[obxhead]

7. The spill totals have drastically increased with the newest 'hat'

though, we don't have a real estimate of this spill yet. Too much has been hidden and buried. Another thing to take into account is the extreme use of dispersant. To my knowledge it has never been used at such a rate as it has been in the gulf.

While I won't run around screaming we're all going to die, I think this event will have far greater consequences than a lot of scientists believe.

[Duer 157099]

8. You're probably talking about the Ixtoc

If so, that happened much further south, and while I don't know for certain, I suspect that the exact location is playing a critical role in the severity of the effect in this case.

The proximity to the marshlands, the nesting lands, the time of the year, etc. So, while Ixtoc was certainly bad if not worse, it wasn't in the exact same location so no valid comparison can be made.

It's like comparing a knife wound to the leg and a knife wound through the heart. One knife, one wound, very different outcomes.

[Posteritatis]

12. Either is a drop in the bucket alongside the Gulf War spill. (nt)

[Duer 157099]

22. Ixtoc was roughly one-third the size of the (Persian) Gulf War spill

I'd hardly call that a "drop in the bucket."

[lamp_shade]

10. "panicfests around here"... EXACTLY that. Thanks. I've been looking for a word that

best describes the knee-jerk reactions by some posters here to EVERYTHING.

[Posteritatis]

13. Yeah. For god's sake, someone was seriously arguing that this is worse than the K-T impact. (nt)

[A HERETIC I AM]

23. did you see the post the other day suggesting the Keys are now "destroyed"

because a couple of tar balls were found?

I've lived in South Florida on and off since the early '60's and tar balls were commonplace in Biscayne Bay in the 70's and 80's.

Why?

Because ships used to flush their empty fuel tanks with seawater.

I've not posted to any of the spill related threads precisely because of your point. Why add to a "panicfest"?

But I had to say the above.

[lamp_shade]

24. Similar experience. My family vacationed every summer (50's and 60's) in Massachusetts. Tarballs

were commonplace. We just learned to watch where we stepped.

[Posteritatis]

27. Yeah, it seems that worst-case hyperbole's the only acceptable stance on this one

I don't see how claiming this is going to sterilize the gulf, or the entire ocean, or it's worse than the K-T impact or whatever else can possibly help things, but the site seems like it's gotten to the point where you're The Enemy if you aren't saying it's a kajillion times worse than anything that's ever happened ever.

Part of it's probably some of that nice native exceptionalism - if the exact same spill happened in the North Sea or Hudson Bay or the Bay of Bengal or the Persian Gulf (notwithstanding that this is tiny by comparison to the 1991 spill there that didn't sterilize the area), I don't think we'd be seeing nearly the level of froth and catastrophizing that we are. Perspective's gotta go right out the window if it happens inside the borders; ugh.

[Duer 157099]

32. What percentage of a person's body needs to die in order to sterilize them?

Must the whole body be dead before the person can be deemed sterile?

In a woman, two small ovaries is all it takes. In men, two small testicles. A very small percentage of the whole being, and yet it's that very small part that is responsible for the continuation of life.

Think of the whole Gulf as a whole body. Now think of chemically castrating it. Does the Gulf cease to exist? Clearly no. But is it capable of reproduction? I think that's what we're talking about.

[Posteritatis]

33. Has this site defined "the Gulf" as "the northern extremes of the Gulf?" or something? (nt)

[Duer 157099]

34. If the Gulf's Balls are swimming in hydrocarbons (+Corexit), chemically castrating it

Then what matter is it how the rest of the body (Gulf) is defined?

[BeFree]

15. eh?

I see you live in Canada. I don't think you should be telling people much about what is happening down south.

And as far as this dribble:"...not exactly affecting the entirety or even a majority of a very large body of water."

You don't know what you are yammering about. The leak has not been plugged yet. But you declare "it is not exactly affecting..". You, IOW, are spreading bullshit.

[Posteritatis]

17. Ah, yes, because I live in Canada I automatically know nothing outside my borders

Mind the projection, would you?

If you have to attack me for my nationality as a response, you'd be best off leaving this discussion to the grown-ups.

[BeFree]

18. Geographically

You are far removed, and intellectually, too.

Argue on the facts, friend, and you can't go wrong. You do not have a grasp on the facts, so...

[Posteritatis]

19. Where do you live, so I can tell you not to discuss anything outside the immediate neighborhood? nt

[BeFree]

21. No

But you have no facts to back up what you are saying.

[Posteritatis]

25. So a majority of the gulf is full of oil? It's allllllllllllll gonna die?

Can you tell me the percentage of it that's affected? Can you tell me how big the Gulf of Mexico is? Can you provide the slightest shred of evidence that this spill is supposedly going to sterilize all of it, as the more kneejerky DUers like the OP in this thread are stupidly claiming? It's not possible to have an event that can damage or devastate a part, even a comparatively small part, of the area without completely destroying it all?

I doubt you can, because you are demonstrably incapable of understanding that it is possible to have an oil spill that is not "affecting the entirety or even a majority of the gulf," as this one is. All you can do is deliberately misinterpret what I said and declare me wrong based on where I live.

This site's got a certain obsession with the eschatology of the week and has for awhile, but the hyperbole on this one is ridiculous. Yes, the spill is bad. Yes, it is very bad. No, it is not going to destroy all life in the Gulf of Mexico. No, it is not as bad as the Chicxulub impact, like some impossible idiots have been claiming.

[BeFree]

30. Again

You know not of what you speak. It doesn't matter where you are, your words are baseless.

The event has not yet ended, there are many unknowns, and yet the people who know the most about the oceanology, and the ecology of the Gulf of Mexico, are exclaiming that life as we once knew it in the Gulf is going to be killed.

Why you would propose to hammer people who are in the greatest jeopardy and are expressing their concerns about something they love, and do it from so far away, escapes me. I guess you have nothing better to do?

And did you read highplainsdem's post below?

[Posteritatis]

31. I'm hammering nobody, and I've yet to see anyone clued saying the whole gulf is going to die.

But continue responding to things I'm not saying, please; it's entertaining. Keep moving your goalposts, too.

I hope you don't comment about anything outside the US, incidentally. Hypocrisy isn't nice.

[izquierdista]

9. It survived Ixtoc

[BeFree]

11. That was totally different

Different place and a different release.

highplainsdem posted this on another thread:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=8491490&mesg_id=8491592

12. There are several major differences, reasons why this BP disaster is worse.

Edited on Sat Jun-05-10 10:22 AM by highplainsdem
1) If the 70,000-barrel-a-day estimate some scientists have made is correct, this leak is already worse than Ixtoc, and could end up much worse before a relief well stops this.

2) According to that Wikipedia article, which I've posted about elsewhere, "Pemex claimed that half of the released oil burned when it reached the surface, a third of it evaporated, and the rest was contained or dispersed." Much less of the oil from this BP spill is being burned or contained.

3) According to the Wikipedia article, the use of Corexit was limited after the Ixtoc spill. So far BP is refusing to limit its use of Corexit, which has been a major concern to scientists.

4) The flow rate of the Ixtoc spill was reduced greatly within weeks. We still have little assurance that BP will have any success in stemming the flow of oil till a relief well is successful.

5) We had months to prepare barriers along Texas beaches before the Ixtoc spill reached it.

6) The BP spill is affecting much more ecologically sensitive areas, including wetlands and reefs, currently the deep reefs in the Gulf, but with the reef along the Keys also at risk.

7) Because of its location, the BP spill is much more likely to spread pollution far beyond the Gulf.

8) Because of its location, the BP spill will have a much greater impact on fishing and tourism and the economy of Gulf states and ultimately the economy of our country and other countries. Don't underestimate the impact on real estate.

[L0oniX]

26. Denial is so comforting. n/t

[Posteritatis]

29. Beats the hell out of mindless hyperbole, doesn't it? (nt)

[glowing]

4. The Gulf won't die off completely. It won't be safe to take much from

the Gulf for years I think.. Louisiana might as well sell off the state, worthless now... Besides, the erosion alone will take 1/2 the state away anyways. Eventually it will come back. But it will be a long time in places.

[Hugin]

14. You forgot the part where the only compromise Congress can come to funding a clean up is an increase

in Cigarette Taxes.

Y'know it's gonna happen, eventually. ;)

[Ardent15]

16. I picked Option 1

It is in the nature of Capitalism to expand and destroy, so why should BP be any different?

[jwirr]

20. Last I heard the Gulf is connected to other bodies of water. If we keep

on with business as usual we could pollute the whole ocean.

[Politicalboi]

28. I thought I read that if the oil continues to gush

It will reach the Atlantic by July. I think we all better worry about where and how we are going to survive. I would think this could not only kill the Gulf, it can kill the US.