When Caucasians are in the US minority around 2040 will they receive minority scholarships, etc.?

[NoodleyAppendage]

Just curious to hear others thoughts regarding whether minority-related scholarships, etc. will be made available to Caucasians when its their turn as a minority group. I can see merits to an argument either way, but I suspect not. If Caucasians become a disadvantaged class, then do we honestly believe that they will be afforded the same minority protections...or will they just be viewed as equal.

J

[fishwax]

1. being a statistical minority isn't the same as being a disadvantaged class

"If Caucasians become a disadvantaged class ..."

[NoodleyAppendage]

3. Agreed. But, if they become a disadvantaged class, then would they be afford protections? n/t

J

[Gormy Cuss]

41. Of course, but that's not likely to happen as soon as 2040.

When they are systematically oppressed because of their race it will happen.

[Xipe Totec]

2. Only if they are a disadvantaged minority, which I hope will never happen

I hope to live in a future where being a minority does not automatically mean being persecuted.

[UndertheOcean]

4. Oh , get over it . Why do I feel that pulling a few dollars from white people to help their

historical Victims of discrimination and slavery , Just to attempt to equalize the field , is like pulling teeth.

And to answer your question : it depends.

[Taitertots]

15. How are people alive today the victims of things that happened over 100 years ago?

Isn't it more taking money from people totally unrelated to historical discrimination and giving it to other people totally unrelated to the historical discrimination.

I'm not going to pay for something YOUR grandpa did (mine were still in Europe).

[Starbucks Anarchist]

24. Over 100 years ago?

Are you aware of all the legal discrimination AAs had to face just within the last century? Just in terms of education, many universities didn't even accept black applicants, regardless of their qualifications. So they were disenfranchised and weren't able to use a college education for jobs to support their families, which fueled a cycle of poverty.

I love when people think racism ended with the Emancipation Proclamation.

[EFerrari]

38. Wasn't a black man just murdered and dragged behind a car last week in SC?

The "history of discrimination" is not history.

[Gormy Cuss]

43. The Civil Rights act of 1964 was far less than 100 years ago

and like the end of the Civil War it wasn't able to end discrimination magically with one stroke of a pen.

[Taitertots]

45. The post I was responding to was about reparations for discrimination and Slavery

Slavery ended over 100 years ago. The civil rights act was almost 50 years ago.


Why should people give money for something they didn't do to people they didn't do it to?

[Gormy Cuss]

51. Because society may have a collective debt ?

Because many people alive today have suffered directly from the effects of racial discrimination?

[Taitertots]

52. Why is the poster I responded to bringing up 100 year old grievances

Obviously slavery has nothing to do with it because there are no remaining slaves or slave owners. So what does slavery have to do with the effects of discrimination on people living today?

[William Z. Foster]

59. don't embarrass yourself

OK we will take this slowly. I know that us older folks ruined everything for you and have nothing to offer, but here we go anyway.

Wealth has been built up and accumulated and passed along through families and social connections. The higher you go up that ladder, the whiter it becomes. To this day people of color are disadvantaged in accessing that wealth as well as opportunities. That is a statistical fact - as well as an easily observable reality for anyone not blinded by racism.

That means one of two things must be true:

- People of color, by virtue of their skin color alone, are inferior to whites in some way

- Racism still exists and the legacy of slavery lives on

Pick one. Where do you stand on that?

Many white people my grandparents age would choose the first option unhesitatingly. But I know that you are much wiser and smarter than your elders, and you told us you are going to fix up the world in many ways where they have failed terribly, so you probably see this differently than those white people from 1900 did. Don't you?

[Taitertots]

65. The racism of your generation has continued to block the wealth transfer to the black community

Your false dichotomy is irrelevant. Obviously the older generations racism has blocked wealth transfer to the black community.

We need to fix the income distribution catastrophe the older generations have given us. We get there by attacking the excess concentration of wealth regard of race. Not by punishing all white people for the actions of a small percentage of the population.

[William Z. Foster]

66. I see

You want to blame older people for this, but can't see taking any responsibility for it yourself?

I think you will find that it is what people of all ages right now today are saying and doing that is the problem.

[Taitertots]

70. How am I responsible for racial income disparity?

The vast majority of the causes took place before I was born and outside my control.
Additionally, I have a modest personal income available to distribute and don't have the ability to distribute large amounts capital at work. My contribution to the income distribution are minimal.

The only reason we are even discussing this is because the mechanisms to perpetuate income disparity for all races exists. Addressing income disparity for all races will lessen income disparity between races.

[William Z. Foster]

58. hey wait a minute

I thought you were all upset with older people because they screwed everything up, and you were going to show them how to do it - you are off in a brilliant new direction and accomplishing so much more already in your short life then they had over decades.

So how come you are spouting the same racist and reactionary lines that people my grandparent's age did back 50 years ago? Is this the bold new progressive direction you taking, and for which you are praising yourself for so highly?

[Name removed]

64. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[William Z. Foster]

67. ok

No problems in your generation, then? Everyone from older generations is to be blamed?

[Moochy]

5. "If Caucasians become a disadvantaged class"

Oh you mean if labor markets in Africa switch to a white-slavery based model, and outsource slave acquisistion to pirates and other rogue nations in order capture Caucasians and sell them to east coast slave traders bound for Africa?

[NoodleyAppendage]

7. No, I mean things like Caucasians being denied jobs based upon their skin color or language. n/t

J

[Moochy]

13. Ah... Reverse Racism Day 2040 ...... be afraid

Reverse Racism Day - when enough non-whites get into power and start to deny whites the privilege of being white.

Store canned water and hoard your womenfolk! :evilgrin:

( on edit, spelling and grammar is gud. )

[Jamastiene]

6. You are going to get your ass handed to you for this one...

:popcorn:

[JohnnyLib2]

8. Yep.

I'm glad the first couple of responses were mild.

[NoodleyAppendage]

9. Just wondering if the logic of discrimination laws and other well-formed social policies...

...flow both ways. I'm not saying that there shouldn't be minority-associated scholarships, etc. I just wonder what's going to happen in the future when those groups can no longer claim minority status (statistically) or when Caucasians are in the minority.

J

[Paladin]

29. Losing Sleep Over This Matter, Are You? (n/t)

[NoodleyAppendage]

33. You assume too much. n/t

J

[EFerrari]

39. The nativist sites are all obsessive about "2040". n/t

[NoodleyAppendage]

10. Dupe. n/t

...flow both ways. I'm not saying that there shouldn't be minority-associated scholarships, etc. I just wonder what's going to happen in the future when those groups can no longer claim minority status (statistically) or when Caucasians are in the minority.

J

[H2O Man]

48. That word -- "ass" --

came to mind the moment I read the OP.

[Bluebear]

68. It comes to mind whenever I see the screen name

let alone the post.

[Gman]

11. The SCOTUS defined suspect classes were defined as such because

they were historically disadvantaged through many and various mechanisms devised by Caucasians and for Caucasians. When and (a humongous) IF Caucasians suffer the same plights as did the defined suspect groups over a couple of hundred years, then I would expect it to be appropriate to include Caucasians.

Sorry, but that is a pretty stupid question and it reflects the complete ignorance of whites to the SCOTUS reasoning that originally defined suspect classes.

[NoodleyAppendage]

14. So, if Caucasians are 20% of US population and are discriminated upon by the majority...

...they will not be allowed protective status because they haven't suffered enough historically? The stupidity, I think, rests in the assumption that protective/suspect classes only need redress if they can count to historically ancient discrimination.

J

[Gman]

16. You don't want to get it

so I can't help you.

[NoodleyAppendage]

19. Or, you can't move beyond your rigid SCOTUS position to address my hypothetical.

Your SCOTUS position assumes that Caucasians will never be in the minority or that institutional discrimination cannot become a problem within a generation (I guess).

[Gman]

47. Then I guess you'd have to read the SCOTUS opinions to get a good starting point

anything else is simply what you THINK it is.

[Igel]

37. However, SCOTUS also spoke more recently in other terms.

For example, "diversity." Increasing diversity was a valid institutional concern, having demographics in an educational institution "look like America" was an okay goal.

I suspect that the answer to the OP is already visible: I've heard advocates for "diversity" say truly inane things, in a school that is 50+% black and 40+% Latino, a principal received support for trying to increase diversity by recruiting more black and Latino kids. I've heard advocates for women's rights say that the reason young women out-graduate men overall, both in school and college, is because of "different interests and abilities"--which is exactly the thoroughly reviled reason that used to be given for why men outperformed women. Having more men graduate college than women was a "good" thing for sexists, but having more women graduate college than men is a "good" thing for those interested in women's rights.

Advocates remain advocates even when their justification wanes, and even when it vanishes. By then things are so communalistic that there is no society, and people seem to like it that way.

[Gman]

49. Very true, very true

[stevedeshazer]

12. Did the white minority in South Africa receive similar 'minority protections' post-apartheid?

I think frankly that the whole notion is ridiculous. We'd be better off to accept one another as we are. We're all gonna be the same color in the long run. Distinguishing people by ethnicity only divides us all.

[NoodleyAppendage]

17. Agreed and good point. I'm not certain what protections are afforded to people in S.A. n/t

J

[Angry Dragon]

28. I agree 100% with you

And then why do we have so many whites afraid of all the other races??

[Demstud]

18. They still wouldn't be a minority.

They would still be the largest group, just not a majority in total population. They would still have a larger advantage than any one group.

[NoodleyAppendage]

21. In the world, but we don't base our discrimination laws on worldwide racial percentages or disadvant

.

[MellowDem]

20. If you want an answer, look at Asians in this country...

generally, they are not considered disadvantaged, despite being a minority with a history of opression in this country. So there aren't a whole lot of programs focused on helping Asians out there with scholarships, etc. mainly because they're already doing well. I think it makes sense to spend resources on groups that are lagging. But to frame it as a sort of "payback" from whites to minorities is just dumb. Many whites had nothing to do with the disadvantages minorities faced. And it makes the whole issue divisive and race-fueled.

There are already some areas of the nation where disadvantaged whites are given a sort of minority status. Appalachia comes to mind. And there are programs around here that help these whites out specifically. It makes sense to help the disadvantaged whites and not all whites everywhere. The problem with some of these kind of programs is that their focus is rather broad. If you put up minority scholarships for all blacks based on GPA, those blacks with the greatest advantages will generally get those scholarships.

There are also programs that focus solely on the disadvantaged, regardless of race. It's a less divisive approach to the issue. And it still will help those groups the most that are disproportionally disadvantaged.

[NoodleyAppendage]

31. Good points, but what of scholarships that denote minority as anything non-Caucasian

I thought Asians and other non-disadvantaged peoples (per your point) are still considered minorities for the purpose of US financial aid assistance, college scholarships, etc. Not many of those larger minority scholarship programs make a distinction about the type of minority.

J

[MellowDem]

35. Some do...

but yeah, obviously that gets to the heart of the issue. If the point is to help the disadvantaged, minority status alone isn't always going to be specific enough to be truly effective. One of my friends in college, who is 3/4 different European backgrounds and 1/4 Mexican (which probably includes more European background as well) got a scholarship for being a minority. But he looks as white if not whiter than most "whites". And his background and family are pretty wealthy. You could argue that that scholarship money didn't get distributed the way it was meant to be distributed and that someone out there who definitely could have used it more didn't get it.

He himself even jokes about it. But people will take advantage of such things. It has to be expected I guess.

[AngryAmish]

32. Actually there is a lot of active discrimination against asians in higher education

They need higher scores to get in almost everywhere. Look what happened at Berkeley when they got rid of adjusting scores by race.

[MellowDem]

36. Well, it's funny you call it discrimination...

when others would call that affirmative action. Of course, affirmative action is inherently discriminatory, but I guess it's a good discrimination? But according to that logic, whites are discriminated against in higher education as well.

Asians are pretty much proof that the reasons behind racial gaps of any sort can't be explained away just with past or current racism and discrimination. There are other issues that must be addressed as well to close racial gaps.

[EFerrari]

40. In order to believe that, you have to believe that all peoples of color are the same

somehow and discount the hundreds of years of (ongoing) discrimination against black people in this country.

[MellowDem]

56. No, that makes no sense...

In fact, in order to believe that, you have to believe that people of color have different backrounds, hence the different outcomes. And that there are many factors at work than just racism and discrimination. Which there are. Different histories for one. Different cultures for another.

[ShamelessHussy]

22. only after centuries of suffering, and brutality

maybe :evilgrin:

[Cleita]

23. Hopefully by then all high school graduates, with good high school grades and meeting

of requirements for admission to a university, will be able to attend tuition free, just like it was in California in the state college and university system until Reagan fucked up the system. There is no need in this system for minority scholarships.

[HopeHoops]

25. Do you think the right-wing idiots will suddenly embrace affirmative action then?

[JohnnyLib2]

26. We need a "short and fiery" post about now.

:hide:

[niceypoo]

27. Whites will still be the majority race, even if all other races together outnumber them

[totodeinhere]

55. Yes, they will be a plurality. n/t

[KingFlorez]

30. It depends on who is at the top of the money chain

If minority groups haven't pulled closer to being even with whites when it comes to money and authority, then the whole entire system stays like it is now. Regardless, whites are not going to become a disadvantaged class, the real question is if minority groups can pull even.

[DonCoquixote]

34. To be honest

It depends on if they become truly disadvantaged, and by that meaning they have a harder time getting access to financial capital, employment, education and civil services.

To be real honest, it is nice to talk about "race should not matter", indeed, the one thing many "European Americans" dare not talk about is that many of them are in as bad a situation as minorities, but few talk about that (save for Joe Beagant or Michael Moore.) However, if anyone thinks we are in a color-blind society, they are not being honest. Not being Brown, black or Yellow does give people a leg up, whether it is a loan application, or getting stopped for a traffic ticket.

[qazplm]

42. they wont be in the minority they will be in the plurality

there is a difference.

[supernova]

44. Best answer ^__^

[Dappleganger]

46. Hopefully, by that time everyone will have access to free/mostly free education regardless

of the color of their skin.

[SocialistLez]

50. I would hope by 2040

college education would be so affordable, people wouldn't need scholarships.

[HuckleB]

62. What makes you think that's even a possibility?

[SocialistLez]

74. I keep holding out hope

the American people will vote for people who will represent their best interests.

The Nation had an article about the cost of making higher education universal. Basically anyone who wants to attend college could attend. It wasn't as much as I thought it would be too.

I'm too lazy to get the issue out and find the figure but I think it's possible.

Young people are more progressive and I think they get we need to stop voting for corporate whores.

[L0oniX]

53. Don't worry about it. We won't survive the decline in oil and the military expenses.

[BolivarianHero]

54. Class matters more than race in terms of advantage/disadvantage...

A White person is more likely to have the institutional support and connections needed to become wealthy and powerful in American society, but someone who is not White and still has these things cannot be called disadvantaged. Class trumps other forms of oppression.

[FarLeftFist]

57. Most slave owners were "minorities" on their own land..

And still maintained power.

[ZombieHorde]

60. "will they receive minority scholarships, etc.?"

Obviously none of us really know the answer, but I will guess no. Thirty years from now is too soon.

Perhaps when everyone who is alive today is dead, USAers will have a different perspective than us.

[HuckleB]

61. As a male caucasian, I don't see the point.

Perhaps, history will show things to be different, but I'm not into making predictions.

How about we deal with the real issues of today?

[donheld]

63. Some said you were going to get your ass handed to you. Happy to Oblige

[ZombieHorde]

69. "Image hosted by Angelfire" is all I see. nt

[donheld]

75. aaaargh

[SemiCharmedQuark]

71. Yes, because there are only two races. "white" and "not white"

:eyes:

good lord...

[JI7]

72. you think minority programs are based on that group having fewer numbers ?

[entanglement]

73. No, there's a mandatory 150 year period of slavery and 100 year period of segregation first

So I'd say 2290 sounds more likely. :evilgrin:

[mmonk]

76. It's not about numbers, it's about power and who has it.