Health Insurance Reform: My premiums are going up.

[LWolf]

My salary is dropping down an elevator shaft, since it is funded by state revenues. My premiums are projected to rise between 15% and 26% this fall.

I already don't use my insurance; I can't afford the deductibles. Now I'll be paying significantly more for insurance I can't afford to use, while my salary will be significantly less.

This is the Democratic majority's insurance reform.

No wonder I didn't support it.

[ixion]

1. Yep. Those of us who didn't support it

didn't support it for reasons just like this.

[D-Lee]

40. Sorry but the premiums would be going up more without it ... nt

[L0oniX]

43. Sorry but premiums were going up anyway and they are going to continue to go up.

[avaistheone1]

170. How changealicious.

Health reform was support to rein in the costs of premiums.

FAIL

[Omaha Steve]

173. Health reform hasn't started yet

You might have missed that. The first wave starts later this month.

[avaistheone1]

200. You might have missed

that on almost a daily basis the health insurance companies and employers are wiggling out of their commitments on health insurance reform. We don't have to wait a few months for that.

[INdemo]

175. Healthcare reform?

We did not get real reform..We got a bill that Democrats could use for bragging rights and Republicans could use to declare government take over of the industry..Insurance companies spent millions to defeat real reform and now we are paying the price through higher premiums so they can recover their "propaganda money"

[Name removed]

45. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Maraya1969]

90. I just remember people complaining about 35% increases before

HCR. Grant it there should be more change but remember that only a small portion of it has been implemented by now.

[dflprincess]

140. My brother works for a midsize company whose carrier just tried to hit them with a 35.5% increase

they've changed companies but the coverage they'll be getting will have huge deductibles.

This increase probably came about because my brother, another employee and one of the owner's spouses were all diagnosed with various cancers in the last year & another employee has a child who was quite ill in the last year.

So, yeah, they'll all have "coverage" but the dedutibles the new policy has is going to make it real hard for some people who work there to get care.

I don't see a whole lot of "reform" happening here.

[GreenTea]

93. You fucking do the research!! - Insurance premiums have gone up significantly

every year since asshole Bush and the republicans held complete and total power, and gave corporations free rein as well as deregulation to do and charge as they pleased....making sure there were no prosecution perused towards any of the slimy unfair, bullying corporation conglomerates who are always illegally in collusion with each other and always have been all through the history of corporation.

Some insurance corporations announced back in January there were going to raise health care premiums up to 35% some even more - when health care reform was still very much in doubt.

Who are you going to believe the greedy union-busting despicable cut-corners collusive corporations and the corporate republican ideology that's put corporations in such firm control and complete power over the government?

No government competition means the insurance corporations can charge what ever they please and insure only healthy people and throw off the sick which reaps in bigger profits and 100 million dollar and 300 million dollar salaries/bonuses for a few....leaving the collusive corporations in control, which always means higher prices to the consumers, monopolies always keep raising prices & premiums - no competition....simply because there's no place else to go....All and only seven of the top health care insurers (all the smaller ones ALL go through one of the seven set their prices in collusion though it's illegal and the say they don't but why not there's no competition....same with the oil companies they swear there's no collusion and you believe them too?

Do you own research instead of what you are being told by the corporate media and friends who watch the same corporate media.

[AllentownJake]

128. They announced they were going to raise premiums

yet nothing was done about it, interesting.

We the People and all that.

[Gormy Cuss]

56. Interesting assertion. Can you point to a nonpartisan economic analysis that backs it up?

No question premiums would be going up with or without it. What mechanism in the bill tamps down the increases?

[woo me with science]

70. I don't believe that for a second.

Ours just went up by nearly 25 percent.

[Jakes Progress]

79. Perfect example of faith-based politics.

It's so because you think it. You could have said that premiums might have gone up anyway and entered into a discussion. But instead, you chose to make a statement without proof, logic, or evidence. Just your belief.

[JDPriestly]

98. The premiums go up all the time. They have gone up constantly in the

recent years. The problems with the health insurance reform are a) there is no public option, b) there is no restraint on the insurance companies' ability to raise rates without government review and permission, and c) it doesn't even really apply to the insurance policies of most of us for several years.

[AllentownJake]

103. The bill wasn't reform

We fought for a year over a reform bill, and we got an individual mandate and some subsidies for nice things.

[JDPriestly]

109. True. So let's try to improve it.

[AllentownJake]

123. Starts with repealing the mandate and starting over

Which other than a few issues, is rewriting the entire bill.

[eridani]

158. Yes--at a bare minimum allow states to enact single payer

That is the only improvement that will mean anything, other than establishing direct government dictatorship over premiums and benefits, as they do in the Netherlands and France.

[JDPriestly]

168. Agreed! California just might do it if things get good (or bad) enough.

If things get good enough, we will be able to afford it. If things get bad enough we will not be able to afford anything other than single payer.

[AllentownJake]

88. Great observation

I'm glad we fought close to a year over a bill to reform health care because it costs too much to allow it to continue to cost even more.

[humbled_opinion]

120. BS you can't prove that....

It is a fabricated talking point no diffent then *ush claiming that Torture stopped terror attacks. The only solution was to give us a public option and our side folded. Enough of this crap repeal the HCR and do it right.

[Canuckistanian]

150. Why? What's stopping them from raising rates right now?

HCR doesn't even kick in fully for a couple of years. And I saw no restriction in the bill barring insurance companies from raising their rates in the meantime.

All the politician knew this. There was a "grace period" built in to allow health insurance companies to cash in BEFORE HCR.

[Missy Vixen]

225. Oh, really?

There are no cost caps on the premiums, especially due to age. In other words, if you are over 40, you are screwed.

I might also mention my husband's a contractor. Imagine my joy to learn the other day that the "reform" does not cover contractors. In other words, we're screwed again.

This legislation was nothing more than a bailout for the health insurance industry. After all, baby boomers would be aging off private insurance by the millions per year, and $omeone needed to do $omething about that.

I have three words for those who think that we should just "trust", and wait till 2014 for health care we will not be able to afford under any circumstances: Follow The Money.

[vi5]

2. But it's REFORM!

It reformed things. Why do you hate reform? I mean health insurance was formed one way and now this is a new way. Hence re-form. Isn't that enough?

[City Lights]

3. We recently applied for new insurance and my daughter was only accepted with a rider.

So much for the "immediate" relief many here claimed we'd get. Now we have no coverage for her for anything related to allergies/asthma, which are the things she most needs coverage for.

:argh:

[LWolf]

7. I have a metabolic disorder

that includes hypothyroidism. I couldn't afford to pay for another blood test last summer, which is part of my deductible, so I've gone a year with no thyroid. My hair is falling out, I'm gaining weight, and I'm sleepy ALL THE TIME.

I'd hoped to be able to scrape enough together for the blood test this summer. With more pay cuts AND the premium going up, I don't see that happening.

Insurance that only covers care when it's not needed. What a scam.

:cry:

[City Lights]

11. That really sucks.

So sorry you're suffering. :hug:

[Lorien]

54. Hypothyroid, adrenal failure, fibromyalgia, CFS, and more here, but I've found ways

to get what I need (mostly) without insurance and on a shoestring budget. PM me if you like and I'll send you some links.

[femrap]

151. And aren't these conditions mainly

suffered by WOMEN? Just asking.

[Lorien]

165. Hypothyroid and fibromyalgia, yes. Adrenal fatigue is about equal among the sexes

but more and more men are experiencing the first two. An many people believe that fibromyalgia is nothing more than untreated or undertreated hypothyroid disease.

For low cost home testing: http://www.canaryclub.org/

Low cost meds (same as Armour, but about half the strength): http://www.nutri-meds.com/Nutri_Meds_Desiccated_Porcine_Thyroid_Capsules_p/nm-g-ptc.htm

There's a Yahoo group devoted to adrenal fatigue that can help with treatments also.

[liberal_at_heart]

174. I have Chronic fatigue, possibly fibromyalgia but my thyroid is just fine

I've had all my blood work done and my doctor is dumbfounded as to what may be causing my fatigue. I've noticed that when I'm tired I have low blood pressure. The last time I had surgery the nurse was concerned about my heart rythm. I've done some research on the internet and there is a link between heart arythmias and low blood pressure. I haven't talked to my general physician yet but I plan to. He's never tested my heart rythms before. I didn't use to think that fibromyalgia was a possibility. Before the only place I had pain was in my lower back but it seems like the older I get(mid 30's) the more wide spread the pain gets, but I've had my thyroid tested so it wouldn't be that. I'm not big into supplements. I do believe in well tested and proven supplements and alternative therapies but I've seen my dad waste too much money on supplements that did nothing to believe in all of them. I will talk to my doctor about it. He is a very open minded doctor. If it is a well proven supplement he would okay it.

[Lorien]

203. There's a very good chance that it's your thyroid: the standard TSH test is total crap

and fibromyalgia and CFS did not "exist" before the TSH test was invented in the late 1970's. There's a huge global movement by health activists to END the use of both the faulty TSH thyroid test and synthetic hormones, which only work for 3-5% of the population (but make the test numbers look "healthy"). I have the same BP and heart issues you do and had thyroid tests every year that came back negative. But last year a friend noticed that I had nearly all the symptoms and she knew about the TSH scandal, so she convinced me to see a specialist. I did and they confirmed her suspicions. So did two others that I saw later. I could have addressed this issue 30 years ago had it not been for Abbott labs and their crap thyroid test!

Here's a note on the TSH test: http://misslizzy.me/unreliable-tsh-levels/

Here's the list of hypothyroid symptoms: http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/long-and-pathetic/

Here's info on the link between fibromyalgia, CFS and hypoT: http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/recent-new-diseases/

Here's a list of adrenal fatigue symptoms, which are often misdiagnosed as CFS (chronic fatigue syndrome): http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/adrenal-info/symptoms-low-cortisol/

I hope this helps!

[liberal_at_heart]

227. .I can't believe how many of those symptoms fit me. Thank you.

I had no idea that the TSH test was crap. I will definitely follow up on this. Thanks.

[femrap]

195. Thank you for this information....

I read a book about Adrenal Fatigue...I think it's simply the result of working for Corporations when one is NOT a 'dog eat dog' type person. Very stressful to have to be something you're NOT for over 8 hours a day. Plus it seems to effect one's 8 hours of sleep as well. And the other 8 hours you're left with...well, you spend time trying to forget what you do to earn a 'living.'

This type of 'living' seems so unnatural to my soul. And I guess my adrenals suffered.

[SocialistLez]

8. Is it a waiting period for coverage of allergies/asthma?

I know sometimes insurance companies will cover a pre-existing condition BUT it's after a year's coverage.

[City Lights]

10. It's a minimum of two years with no guarantee that they'll remove it. nt

[SocialistLez]

18. Yikes. I am sorry to hear that. =[ NT

[City Lights]

22. Thanks. nt

[AllentownJake]

4. Many of us who were sounding the alarm over this bill

Will be proven right in 2 years. We'll be told to shut up when we asked for it to be fixed as well.

The fix was in from the beginning when they dropped any notion of a public option in July from the executive branch.

He got his Rose Garden ceremony, time to look forward.

[laughingliberal]

6. +1 nt

[SocialistLez]

9. Even if we didn't get the public option

I could SOMEWHAT handle the blade in my back if they had AT LEAST had some real controls in place to stop all these outrageous premium increases.

I predicted this perfect storm.
The insurance companies will keep raising premiums because it means more subsidies from the gov and on and on it goes.

[AllentownJake]

13. Well people were saying the 80% cap was a control

I got ridiculed by pointing out that it doesn't mean doctors, Pharma, and Hospitals can't just charge more making the 80% cap irrelevant.

We made history shut the fuck up.

[area51]

23. +1

Each day, 273 people die due to lack of health care in the U.S.

We need single-payer health care, not a welfare bailout for the serial-killer insurance agencies.

[davidwparker]

65. "look forward" to 2012. He won't make it again.

[AllentownJake]

71. He might

The Republicans are after all that stupid. That being said, he has a democratic congress he is toast in 2012.

[aquart]

160. +1

[midnight armadillo]

206. "fix it later" is a fraud.

You know what? Even if you chase a turd sandwich with some nice aged balsamic vinagrette, the sandwich still tastes like shit.

[OhioChick]

5. I hear you. n/t

[burnsei sensei]

12. That's health care and insurance for profit.

The immoral clusterfuck called the American health care system is far from over.
In spite of the tissue of reforms, the system remains structurally intact.
It should have been destroyed at its very core by the imposition of single payer and brass-knuckled cost controls.
But, of course, cost was the elephant that officially was not in the room at the health care debates.
And the biggest influences there?
Karen Ignagni and big pharma.
They castrated policy-makers and made health reform their party.

[secondwind]

17. we had to pass SOMETHING so that we could tweak it and amend it. :-(

[AllentownJake]

19. Don't you know Medicare and Social Security

Were really private entity give aways when they were enacted and we reformed them a few years later.

[nannah]

14. all state workers in WA state had their insurance deductible increase

by a considerable amount, thus increasing our cost of healthcare enormously. that's a goodly number of folks to add to the list of people whose healthcare costs have increased since the health insurance company's bill passed.

[AllentownJake]

15. Like the credit card bill

Most people saw a rate increase, an unnecessary one, because there was nothing in the bill to prevent it.

Now Shut the Fuck up. WE MADE HISTORY DAMMIT.

[joe black]

64. Wife works for DSHS.

She is also required to take days off without pay to add to the rate increase. Change indeed.

[nannah]

91. i am also one of the 25% of WA state employees

who will have to have non paid days off to help balance the state budget. p[

[LWolf]

181. Here to the south of you,

my school district is cutting our salaries and then cutting 11 school days to go along with the increase.

That makes it even less likely that I'll ever use the policy I'm paying for. :(

[Mari333]

16. mine, too. and all I have is catastrophic care.

I may not be able to afford this, and might just have to cross my fingers until I can someday get medicare.

[Dr.Phool]

20. I'm hobbling around right now, on what might be a broken foot.

Just because I can't afford the deductible or the co-pay.

I'm hoping it's not broken, but it just ain't working.

[AllentownJake]

21. Fucking ridiculous

Not you, the system. You are spending money on a monthly basis not to get care, and we have secured that idea into law.

[LWolf]

25. So many of us suffering because having insurance doesn't get us care.

:(

So many didn't want to hear it when we had the opportunity to pass a reform that would have actually HELPED. :grr:

[immune]

24. This probably won't be well received

but as long as we keep relying on insurance companies and paying their premiums in exchange for questionable and often denied medical care, they'll keep gouging their members, regardless of "law" and "order". The only real solution lies in a mass withdrawal from the rolls and reliance on our own ingenuity. If we want real changes in the medical/insurance "industry" that's the only way we'll get their attention.

Yeah, there are health issues that have to be dealt with, some more serious than others. But if it was me (and it is) I'd go online and do some in depth research on your own medical problems. There are tons of inexpensive natural remedies WITHOUT all the side effects of pharma meds, widely available to help with damn near any medical problem known to man and it would behoove us all to find out what they are and give them a try. Isn't that what your doc says? "Here, give this a try".

[LWolf]

27. Universal, single-payer, not-for-profit health CARE.

That's the answer. And it can cover alternative treatments.

Please don't think that I haven't looked into, and tried, alternatives to taking thyroid. If they'd worked, I wouldn't need the blood test or prescription.

[immune]

29. I agree with you about single payer

but I don't expect we'll get anything even resembling that until the entities that profit from private health insurance feel the pain.

And I agree that regular blood tests for just about any chronic ailment, like thyroid, are necessary to track changes, but those problems won't respond to natural remedies overnight anyway which is what most people expect. You didn't develop the problem overnight, either, and there's a good chance that taking the pharma meds over a long term may have taught your body that you don't need a thyroid at all. In that case, natural stuff probably wouldn't help much.

I'm not a doctor, so don't take my word for anything, just saying supplements won't hurt you and there's a good chance they'd support your system more than you know.

[Enthusiast]

171. "Universal, single-payer, not-for-profit health CARE."

The only real answer.

[LWolf]

187. Yes. nt

[Book Lover]

30. Just to point something out

The doctor who says, "Here, give this a try," has had a dozen years of rigorous training and supervised practice that informs her/his suggestion.

[immune]

31. and lots of pharma salesmen offering bennies to the doc

for prescribing them. I worked in the medical field for a number of years, so don't try to kid me. Matter of fact, that experience mostly scared me into good health. But that's just me.

[Book Lover]

32. What was your job? (nm)

[immune]

33. Lab Tech - in hospital

Even the chief of the lab used to say that blood tests would be more helpful if the docs would read them.

And I am by no means saying doctors aren't needed! I am merely saying they are often OVER used for problems that could be better managed on one's own if people didn't put all their faith in a fallible system.

Edit to add: I also worked in a private clinic running the lab. Not that any of that should have any bearing on what I'm saying or that its vital information for creds. I'm stating an opinion.

[AllentownJake]

35. Lab test have become preventive measures for lawsuits

and a profit center for hospitals. Two fold problem.

Yeah not a popular sentiment on here but medical providers and lawyers are part of our problem as well as our inability to accept death as something that happens in older populations. The generation before us was more comfortable with dying and they lived a shorter period of time.

In our Health Care system there aren't that many good guys. Varying degrees of greed instead of providing care by the people who are running things.

[immune]

36. Agree wholeheartedly

[femrap]

154. I like your ideas...

'Here, give this a try.'

I believe most of our illnesses are a result of the chemicals we ingest via the air, the food, the soil, the water, etc. TPTB want us to be ill.

McDonald's causes the problem....so does Monsanto...and Big Pharma tries to make the problem worse by taking all of your $$$$.

Just give me a toke so I can smile and then get some sleep....no that would be against the law, right?

[glowing]

26. Join the club.. Its going up because so many employers are dropping

the coverage to save money.. Less people in the pool, same need by shareholders to be paid, and this means we all get screwed for minimal protection of co-pay for getting some meds for a really bad cold or flu.. Most people who have insurance are older every year. Younger generations are losing jobs or not getting a job that has those built in bennies (you know still waiting tables after college because there are no jobs anywhere). The young who have less illness are not helping to offset the older populations that are in the pools.

The whole health ins. act was completely worthless other than entrenching us further in a corporate scam of paying more money for the already wealthy's bottom line.

Enacting a Medicare for All buy-in option for everyone would have made for help in creating jobs and businesses during this downturn. Health care costs are huge. For a big company, its a way to keep their serfs from leaving or demanding better vacations, bonuses, and wage increases.. but for small business, its a death sentence during an economic downturn.

[Festivito]

28. Be sure to thank Sen. Baucus and his ten Dems.

That voted with ONE-HUNDRED PERCENT of Republicans.

Hey, if you want single-payer, how do you plan to fight ALL the Repubs with the few DINOs attached working against you? I'd be glad to help.

[LWolf]

34. I'm going to start by making sure

that I never again, in this lifetime, campaign for, donate to, or vote for a centrist/corporatist/3rd way/dlc/"new" dem, no matter who they are running against.

I AM going to pour my time, $$, efforts, and votes into electing candidates who are actually left of center.

I'll continue to support Conyers and Kucinich, and the organizations and reps that support HR 676.

I'll be quite vocal to all of the politicians who represent me about where I stand.

I'll be quite vocal to everyone I know about single-payer, as well.

That's a start.

Now the nation just needs another 2 hundred million or so to join me.

[Festivito]

38. As long as you don't unwittingly cast for Repubs for trying to castigate a D.

Although, I'll except you from my demand if you do get those 200-million behind you. Then, have at it, as long as you don't change over to some Repub loving, Socialism for the rich only, despots-R-US, right-wing creepola, mega-thieving king-for-a-term-politician lover.

REMEMBER, Repubs are 100% bad compared to the entirety of what remains out there, all the less-than-Kucinich's are all we have between us and total fast furious ruin.

Even Bernie Sanders is a less-than-Kucinich.

Don't be throwing the baby out with the bath water.

Find more creative ways to castigate.

[LWolf]

41. I don't vote for republicans. Never have. Never will.

I WILL, though, write in a better democrat, or vote for a 3rd party, if there is no Democrat worthy of my vote on the ballot.

If the party wants my vote, they can make sure there are worthy Democrats on the ballot. That's on the party.

[Festivito]

49. You realize, that will be voting for a Republican.

All the Repubs have to do is to run a fake candidate to put in a centrist Dem, and they, the Repubs, get you to help the Repubs.

This happened in Michigan. During the primary for governor. It was a race between three Dems. Repubs wanted Geoff Feiger of Dr. Kevorkian fame, so they ran a fake campaign of someone else to split the vote away from the third candidate whose names I cannot recall at the moment. It worked, Feiger was the Dem candidate and lost to Repub Engler who practically destroyed the state during the heyday of Clinton's good economy. It was a political calculation that people hated Feiger more than they despised John Engler. The guy running the fake DEM race: a Republican. Son of some mucky-muck who I happened to know for a while. We no longer run in the same circles thank goodness.

Voting for the third party where the election is not a sure thing, puts Repubs back into power where they do incredible damage. Just look around! Rights gone. Economy in shambles. Unnecessary wars. Lax regulation destroying life and property. Theft on a mega and giga scale.

No. You've got to do it in the primaries when you can, and only in the general when it's already a done deal.

Sorry. That's just the America we've been handed.

[AllentownJake]

53. Vote pragmatically

Give financial and volunteer time with your heart

[Festivito]

112. Pragmatically should include using your head.

Educate your head, and I found, the heart will help the educating and then both will be as one.

[tiny elvis]

199. it is on the dems, as LWolf said

not to explain to us how lefties are really supported by reps
but to run someone i would consider voting for

[GinaMaria]

66. If we continue to vote for what we don't want

we will continue to get what we don't want.

The lesser of two evils is still evil. No thanks. I am voting my interest going forward. If a party wants my vote, then run a candidate I will vote for. Supply and demand works at the polls too. What we have on the ballots is a lot of stuff I don't want. So guess what? I'm not buying it. I would not be surprised to see the D's become the new R's and running the R's out of business. I'm not interested in old or new R's. I've held my nose too long. The New R's (third way dems) are used to pressuring progressives in congress to get what they want using the same reasoning in your post. Happens over and over. It's beyond disgusting, how little we get in exchange for that. I will not be 'handled' the same way. I'm not a congress critter. I owe them nothing. My vote is earned. Your vote is yours to do what you want with. You have no say in mine. I'm done with voting garbage in because doing so means all we get is garbage out. It's time for real change and all we have is one vote each. How we use that vote to push change is up to each individual. It's a personal call. None of us has control over another person's vote. And no amount of accusation, attempts at inducing guilt or flat out telling me what it is I have to do from your point of view will alter my decision. Not. Your. Call. To. Make.

[Festivito]

104. Tell me you'd still want Bush over Gore because you preferred Nader?

And since Gore/Lieberman was evil, evil by your view of evil, you have no problem helping Bush into office by voting for Nader.

9/11 would not have happened. The economic downfall would not have happened. Social Security would be funded and ready for all the retirees we could throw at it. Instead, middle-age people are killing themselves.

BTW, evil is a transcendent state of perfect badness, not achievable by humans. It's use is hyperbole for mere human leaders. Don't let overstating things cloud your thinking. That being why you're not buying it.

I'm not telling you how to vote, and I take offense at you saying or implying I do. I'm talking about what happens with the vote you're talking about casting. If you want to argue that point, I invite discussion, prove me wrong -- I'd love that. If you want to spend your time telling me I can't decide your vote for you, well, DUH, not unless I break law, not unless I threaten you. NOT ME!

Repubs can vote for Repubs. I don't tell them they can't. If you want to vote for a Repub, I can't tell you that you can't. But, I can tell you that it happens when you vote third party, that you add to the Repub chances of winning. And, it's hard to see someone educated about what's at stake to see them vote for the Repub. It's hard.

The voting deck is stacked against us. We need to fight smarter, not illogically.

[GinaMaria]

201. Not sure where you are getting this Nader thing,

whatever. :eyes: Project and assign blame all you want. You hurt no one but yourself.

What is smarter or logical to you, is not to the next person. We all must vote our interests. Your interests and mine are quite possibly very different. The consequences of my vote are as I stated. If I continue to vote for what I don't want, I will continue to get what I don't want.

And, it's hard to see someone educated about what's at stake to see them vote for the Repub. It's hard.
Yes, it's very difficult to live with democracy (whatever amount we have), but that is the America we have. You have one vote. I have one vote and we each cast ours according to our needs and interests.
And we all live with the result of those votes, whether we agree with the majority or not. That's the system we have. Sorry this is so hard for you. Not everyone will see things your way. Democracy, even a little bit, is messy and uncomfortable especially to those who do not accept other points of view. Focus on what you do control and let the rest go. If you are trying to get others to see your point of view, or the consequences as you see them, then your approach needs work. It's accusatory, full of projection.... Well my grandmother said it best. You catch more flies with sugar than with vinegar.

Good luck in your pursuits to convince people to vote your interests.

[Festivito]

218. In 2001 Bush took the presidency instead of Al Gore.

Bush had an early count showing that he won by about 700 votes, so the Supreme court let him keep that count. Had the people that voted for Nader as a protest, voted instead for one of the leading candidates, that might not have happened. Certainly, anyone here on DU, had they been able to have, say, runoff voting, or decent primary voting, could have sent that election the other direction such that Bush would have had nothing to show the Supreme court. So, my question to you would be do you think that a third party vote, knowing what it caused, would still feel justified in your mind.

As far as being sweet to people. Okay, I'm not. I'll help when needed. But, when someone has a bunch of lackluster thinking that is harming this country, I won't waste words and lose precious time.

And, I appreciate the same in return. I may not like it when someone shows me I'm wrong, since I'll need to look it up, investigate, work at it. But, I will and do appreciate every time it's happened.

[eilen]

77. So basically we are fucked either way we vote. Hope and Change -- bollocks. nt

[Festivito]

95. Yup, but voting is not our only weapon.

We can write papers for example, change opinions, educate others.

[AllentownJake]

96. Wait for things to hit the fan

make friends in the mean time.

[Festivito]

106. I wish the way out of our plight was straightforward and easy.

It's not.

Great ideas heard and ready to implement.

Well, kinda, I'm also kind of busy. But, you know, as we all know. We're all busy.

[fasttense]

182. The solution IS simple and obvious.

March, protest, and repeat until you get the change you voted for. Camp out in DC, live in the streets until they do what they were voted in to do.


But most liberals and democratic voters would rather sit around moaning and groaning about the Tea-baggers. Seems racist idiots can march on DC but those voters with real concerns stay put and remain passive.

You never get change unless you get out and demand change.

[Festivito]

214. I agree. And we need to hold our media as responsible as we want Obama to be.

march, protest, write, write, talk, ... while we still can.

[LWolf]

138. I realize that the favorite propaganda piece

to rope in those who don't toe the line is what you are suggesting.

I also realize that it's bullshit. The only vote for a republican is a vote for a republican.

It's the D's job to EARN votes. If a candidate is willing to throw the left under the bus, then the candidate hasn't earned the vote, and shouldn't expect it.

That's reality, and no amount of campaign propaganda is going to change it.

[Festivito]

144. Favorite propaganda bullshit piece back at you.

Your statement: "The only vote for a republican is a vote for a republican" is the propaganda Republicans love. They don't care if it's a vote for a Republican as in your silly statement, they care about winning the election. That's what matters. They win that election when Dems don't vote for the next favorite from whatever other party that will get the highest number of votes.

Perhaps you don't care if you help Republicans win, as long as you don't specifically vote directly for them. As long as you can ignore a Republican win could have been thwarted if only the third party candidate voters had voted for the Dem as happened in Florida in 2000, you're happy with your head in sand.

Winning elections. That's reality.

[LWolf]

186. Reality sucks for some.

Only votes for republicans are votes for republicans. That's reality. If you want fewer votes for republicans, earn them for Democrats. If you want the votes that are going to independents and 3rd parties, earn them.

[Festivito]

215. Reality blows for others.

You want those Dems to do that work for you so you can sit back and complain when they don't or when they fail.

They're not paid for that extra mile, dontcha know.

[LWolf]

220. I want "those Dems" to earn my vote.

I communicate with them. They know what it takes to earn it. If they don't want to, that's on them.

That's reality.

[Festivito]

222. Ah, give someone something for free, and all they'll want is MORE.

Maybe, someday voting will be thing of the past. Then you won't have to be worried about people earning your vote since you won't have one.

[emilyg]

169. `Thank you.

[LWolf]

183. You're welcome, of course. nt

[liberal_at_heart]

155. As far as I'm concerned the democrats are republicans and they do just as much damage

by not delivering on their promises to help the most in need. At least the republicans are honest about not helping the poor. The democrats promise they will help the poor and then make closed door deals with corporations. They lie. Do you really think the money will really be there to make substantial reform on anything? If we don't reduce our deficit we will become another Greece and the President has as much said that himself. He knows cuts will be coming. And I'm sure he knows he will have to break many promises to keep us from becoming another Greece.

[Festivito]

217. It's a sad choice between someone who will steal your wallet, and ..

another who will steal your life savings.

If that's really that hard a choice to make, you need professional help.

True, the fight is bigger than choosing between these two. We must get some control of the power and build it to be enough to get control away from the ones who hit Greece and Spain. They've come for us now, before and will again.

But, not knowing the difference between a little control and wild abandon will not do.

[liberal_at_heart]

226. not a good enough argument for me anymore

[bobbolink]

57. That's a good start. Then work at a state level to get single-payer.

As for Kucinich... bah.... he dropped his support for poor folk, and that ended my support of him.

But, if you are middle-class, then he is on your side, ..... I guess.

We poor folk can just go suck eggs.

Might be healthy, tho. :shrug:

[Odin2005]

37. Health Insurance is like loaning out an umbrella that dissolves in the rain.

SCAM!!!

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

39. That is a really great analogy.

The co-pays, deductables and drug expenses are STILL more than enough to bankrupt American familes AFTER the so-called "reform".

I never use the word reform in regards to the HCR bill that passed without putting it in quotes.

What we got was ersatz reform.

I was one of the ones pointing out how crummy the "reform" was without cost controls and a public option and told by many to STFU.

Since what was created was essentially a "cost-plus" gift to the for profit health cannibals, we will be back to the drawing board in just a few short years, just with more deaths and bankruptcies that we could have avoided had our Dems and President had the stomach and guts for REAL reform.

[Donnachaidh]

42. it's not reform dude - it's insurance profit guantee law

Anyone who calls this POS healthCARE reform is either lying or stupid. Because reform it is NOT.

[AllentownJake]

44. SHUT THE FUCK UP

We made history, didn't you hear.

This is a big fucking deal.

[Donnachaidh]

46. you owe me some papertowels Jake!

:rofl:

STFU no longer bothers me after THAT screamfest. :rofl:

[AllentownJake]

51. Sorry

It needed to be said you were about to elect Palin.

[Donnachaidh]

55. stop it LOL!

:silly: :rofl:

[Dinger]

47. Oh My, + Infinity

Damn, you nailed it AJ!

[woo me with science]

72. acutely observed. nt

[AllentownJake]

74. Back at you nt.

[Skittles]

110. IT'S A START, JAKE!!!

THEY'LL MAKE IT BETTER........you know......LATER! :rofl:

[AllentownJake]

115. Stop it or Bush will literally get a third term

The republicans will get a super majority in 2010 and they will vote to make Bush dictator for life and kill us all.

[Skittles]

121. YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY PINING FOR PRESIDENT PALIN

YOU KNOW YOU ARE :rofl:

[AllentownJake]

126. Keep it up and Pol Pot will be President and Franco VP

Im series.

[woo me with science]

73. +1 nt

[Greyhound]

48. K&R. I'm so sorry.

"We told you so" is so damn depressing, but it's all we have left.
:kick: & R

[BoWanZi]

50. Mine just went up 30 dollars starting this month and I'm out of work

[Lorien]

52. I was in the same boat so I had to let the insurance go

there is absolutely no way for me to afford my 10k+ deductible and I could barely afford the premiums as they were, so when they raised them that was it. I hate being without insurance, but there was no logical reason to struggle to keep up with rising premiums for a service that I can never afford to use.

[CLANG]

67. Well, at least the gov't won't be forcing us to pay for insurance we can't afford to use...

oh, wait!

[eilen]

80. More and more Americans

are going without paying their mortgage and their health insurance. Priced right out. I guess we should just say screw it and join the Freegans.

[Mimosa]

207. Lorien, we have the same sucky high deductibles

And high copays and no real Rx coverage. We really should drop it because $850 amonth to BC/BS keeps us from being able to save anything.

I guess we're terrified of an accident or heart attack.


The healthcare insurance program they gave us appears to be the worst of all possible worlds.

[daleanime]

58. I'm just happy....

that our elected officials were wise enough not to damage any one's profit margin.












:sarcasm: Just in case it's needed.

[Name removed]

59. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Greyhound]

60. It's historilicious!

Why do you hate America?

[liberation]

61. Don't worry your pretty mind with these details, we'll fix them later*

* later may not be defined during the next couple of years, or until Democractic election quota goals are met, some restrictions may apply. Please consult your friendly DLC representative for further details. Actual reading of the health care reform bill may cause nausea, spins, constipation, and increased blood pressure. Please consult your HMO to see if any of those symptoms are covered.

[blueamy66]

62. My fiance's company just switched

from BCBS to United Healthcare.

Urgent care co-pay goes from $25 to $75...we just found that out yesterday.

Scripts are higher too....spent $45 for 3 scripts after the CVS pharmacist argued for an hour with United Healthcare. I was impressed with the pharmacist's tenacity. She did a good job. Would have cost, at the most, $30 under BCBS. Not that they are the best either....

[dflprincess]

142. Be prepared to fight to get you claims paid with UHC

they'll deny claims for items that are covered knowing that most people will just accept it and pay the bill themselves - especially if you live in a state where the Attorney General can't be depended on to go after the crooks.

I've noticed Cigna pulls the same kind of crap.

[blueamy66]

196. Thanks for the heads up!

I will be ready if they try to pull anything funny.

[DailyGrind51]

63. Mine are going up also!

[Name removed]

68. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[saracat]

69. Mine went up at well. Some of us tried to warn folks but were mocked

and called "haters". Of course it was ALL about our primary vote.

[uponit7771]

75. Prove the premiums would've went DOWN without reform.....big unrec no doubt

Oh, the premiums were ALREADY going up without reform but I think you already know this

[Vinca]

81. They sure as heck would have gone down if we had real reform like single-payer.

The health care bill turned into a giant insurance company welfare bill with a few feel good provisions thrown in to shut people up. I've given up. I really have. 3 1/2 years until Medicare . . . hope I last that long.

[Name removed]

118. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[liberation]

145. Maybe we are not on your "side"

Yeah, tell a terminal patient to wait another "2 years." Or a family to chose between bankrupcy and actual medical care for one of their loved ones.


We beat the nazis in less than half a decade, we sent a person to the moon in less than a decade. We're discussing a simple law which would put our system in the same page as EVERY OTHER INDUSTRIALIZED NATION ON EARTH. So we're not talking rocket science here, in fact we don't even have to "invent" everything since the wheel of universal and single payer health care systems was invented long ago. The truth is that there is no political will... and there is no "time table" for that.

Now, let's stop pretending this is brain surgery, when all it requires is an actual law which could be drafted over a weekend.

[AllentownJake]

86. What a silly argument

We fought for almost a year over a bill so you could pay more for healthcare. If the bill was reform, because this was about cost afterall, the OP wouldn't be posting this.

Translation, we screwed you. Live with it.

[LWolf]

178. I didn't expect them to go down.

I expected them to remain somewhat steady, especially since I'm insured through OEBB, an organization whose sole purpose is to keep rates from skyrocketing.

[Shadow Creature]

76. thank you

Well, some of us cannot afford any health insurance, so those who can will be covering us.

So thank you in advance.

[TomCADem]

78. Your Insurance Premiums Were Going Up Before HCR. HCR Is Not Yet Effective...

Until 2014. So, if you did not like HCR, you should be happy, because most of it has not kicked in.

[Jakes Progress]

82. Really not that astute?

That is the whole point. We got very little in the bill. And they saw to it that even that little bit won't take effect until all the corporations have the time to negate any measurable effect.

It was a smoky mirror in the first place. The cynical delay in effect on makes it less useful. We were had.

[AllentownJake]

84. Don't bother

Talking point to defend what they did. Expect it to be repeated over and over and over again.

See the Credit Card bill.

[eilen]

83. If we're lucky, they will "reform" Social Security so we will

have all that extra cash to pay our mandated health insurance in our paycheck. Oh wait, they probably will rename the FICA to FOCU and use it to restore the monies distributed in TARP and the wildly effective Stimulus. So much for that idea.

[AllentownJake]

87. Looking forward to that one

Here is a 401(k) with no match that we choose which funds you can put your money in, and uh you get less because we spent the money and you have to pay for the generation ahead of yours retirement and take less and like it.

[Autumn]

157. I think they will rename it FOAD,

which stands for Fuck Off And Die. You might be right on the rest.

[ProSense]

92. "HCR Is Not Yet Effective..."

There was a lot of criticism of the 2014 effective date. Interesting to note that it's now fall of this year.

So does this mean Howard Dean was wrong that it wouldn't become effective before the elections?

[AllentownJake]

94. Want to talk about raising premiums and deductibles

or would you rather avoid the OP.

In any regards, this debate was because it costs too much for everyone. Seems that issue was lost somewhere along the way in the debate.

[Skittles]

108. what the FUCK kind of "reform" is that?

[liberation]

146. Well, they seem to have changed the definition of "reform"

which is after all, "change" I "believe."

They never mentioned whether or not the change was going to be good, or what they were "changing."

[alfredo]

85. Are you a veteran? If you are, head to the VA.

[RedCloud]

89. Single payer!

[dembotoz]

97. costs more, covers less.

over due for my quarterly visit to be my blood pressure med checked.

can not afford the co pay AND the drugs right now.

maybe in august.

[New Dawn]

99. K&R - To hell with the individual mandate!

[JDPriestly]

100. What makes you think the reform bill is to blame?

Very few of the provisions of the bill have kicked in thus far.

If the health insurance reform bill were in full swing, then I think that you could blame it, LWolf.

But as it is, I don't think so.

I wish the reform had a public option to compete with the private hogs.

I wish the reform required insurance companies to submit plans for rate increases for government review so that the plans could not just charge more in order to pay even bigger salaries for the CEOs.

I wish the reform immediately restricted the amounts of profit the companies could make.

It doesn't. We need to work together to get a public option, review of rate increases and restrictions on profit margins for insurance companies. But everybody needs health insurance. You do need it whether you think you do or not.

[AllentownJake]

101. Why did we fight for nearly a year

For people to pay higher insurance premiums during an economic downturn.

The reform never restricts profit margins on anyone except for the exchange. Even there, if a doctor decides to charge 5% more for any reason, the insurance company can charge 5% more.

The issue was cost, not coverage from the beginning. If health care would cost less more people would use it. The bill passed addressed coverage. It never addressed cost, which was a main criticism from the left during the debate. It is kind of odd, we are surprised cost are rising.

Hell, the cost of the bill are rising as we speak because of this issue, which was supposedly budget tested.

In 2014 Lwolf will be paying more than in 2010 the question is with the labor demand right now and projected in 2014, do you think Lwolf will make more to compensate fo those costs.

[ProSense]

105. To help kids who were being denied care because of a pre-existing condition.

To help people who couldn't get coverage. To help seniors paying too much for prescription. A lot of good was done immediately, and in time the bill will cover millions more people and reduce the out of pocket cost for millions more.

[AllentownJake]

111. In time

We fought amongst ourselves for a year.

You may bash me for my support of Arlen, but he endorsed every single liberal portion of that bill.

We are talking about a point when we had historic majorities. You think this situation is going to improve, or that we will be further taken advantage of because of the mandate I, and candidate Obama spoke out against.

[ProSense]

117. "You think this situation is going to improve"

It's already on the path to improvement.

[AllentownJake]

122. We are talking cost

That is the argument and the reason the issue was supposedly brough to the forefront over a financial crisis.

Now, you talked about issues that are outside the main issue and which is the main issue of the OP. Which are actually byproducts of the issue presented in the OP.

Do I need to break out Obama quotes when he made sense.

[liberation]

147. On a positive note...

... they pay weekend over time. I was worried there for a second, as that would mean the economy was really in the shitter.

Just looking for the silver lining I guess....

sorry, carry on.

[dflprincess]

143. Coverage does not mean those people will get care

and out of pocket costs will not necessarily decrease as the insurance bill allows for some pretty hefty deductibles.

The bill will leave at least 14 million uninsured (per the CBO) and that number will grow as time goes on. Premiums will continue to increase while what is "covered" decreases and in a few years we'll be right back to where we are today.

We needed a bill that would move us toward the kind of system civilized countries have that allows all citizens access to care - instead we got a bill that requires the transfer of massive amounts of tax (in the form of premium subsidies) and private money into the pockets of the crooks who caused the mess and who make their money by denying access to care.

[LWolf]

179. Just this:

When I opposed the reform bill, I was assured, ad nauseum, by politicians and by many at DU, that insurance would be MORE affordable, not LESS.

[defendandprotect]

102. We need MEDICARE FOR ALL . . . and a new Democratic president . . .

2012 isn't that far away, folks!!

[northzax]

107. tell me

is the actual premium going up this much, or just your share? and is this more to do with the premium or with your employer cutting it's share because of falling revenues?

[AllentownJake]

113. Premiums have been increasing across the board

Like during the credit card bill, there was a spike in increases in interest rate prior to us getting nicer language on our bills.

Usary was the issue, not language, but the congress addressed language.

As with health care cost was the issue, not coverage, that was a side effect.

Congress tried to do something with coverage, I think many will be covered under insurance and will use less health care services as the result of this bill.

[northzax]

116. wasn't the question

premiums will always go up, everything goes up.

the question was, is the reported increase in premiums an actual increase of that amount in the premium (the fault of the insurance company) or a cut in the amount paid for by the OP's employer as well. If the premiums increased by ten percent, and the employer reduced their payment by 10%, it looks like a 20%+ increase to the employee, but the premium didn't really go up that much. my employer had a very good year, so is absorbing the additional premium cost. so while the actual premiums are increasing (not sure by exactly how much) my cost isn't changing. my girlfriend is the opposite, her employer is reducing the amount of the premium they pay, in addition to the premium increase, so her total costs are going up much more than the premium is.

[AllentownJake]

119. We pay more for health care with worse results than the rest of the world

Are you going to be like Sestak when I ask this question and dodge that.

BTW, if anyone wants to know why I don't like Joe that is reason number 25. I actually asked that to him live in a televised debate you can search it. Arlen, when I encountered him actually answered my question.

On a Macro level, given the labor demand, and given the industry and I'm not just talking about the insurance companies, I'm talking lawyers, hospitals, clinics, etc grip on politicians do to our electoral system...I expect only wealthy people to have access to reasonable care soon.

If we were thinking long term, and weren't beholden to the industry, education would be given for free under small conditions to increase supply...if I were being all capitalistic ;-)

This bill is a joke, and people will wake up to that, some quicker than others.

[northzax]

124. who's dodging a question?

I keep asking one, and you keep bringing other stuff up.

[AllentownJake]

125. I thought we started this debate because domestic health care

costed more than the rest of the world with worse results.

Was I missing something, I mean we ignored an economic crisis and wasted tons of political capital to yell at each other for a year over this.

If cost increase were a hopeless given, we probably should have used that political capital to fix the economy. At least that way people had money to pay for it.

[northzax]

133. cost increases are a given

for everything, all the time. it's called inflation, and it's a lot worse than the alternative, in moderation.

I thought we started this debate to increase coverage to all Americans. did I miss something?

[AllentownJake]

135. Did we do either

and I think when I ask will Lwolf have the pay increases for the cost increases...I am talking about inflation. Deflation in labor wages and inflation in prices are the stuff of revolutions.

Coverage was never an issue of the OP, if you have insurance and can't use it due to deductibles for basic needs, like other people mention up thread. It is basically mandated theft and another tax.

BTW I think inflation based on the CPI is lower than the premium increase...keep talking.

[liberation]

148. Yeah, the "affordable" part.

Cheers.

[kenny blankenship]

114. Impossible! You HAVE affordable healthcare now. It says so-right in the name of the law

So, after making out your legally required insurance premimum check for the insurance you can't use, be sure to send a donation to President Obama and the Democratic Party.

And if you care to make up for this disgraceful display of ingratitude, write "Thanks For All The Healthcare Reform!" on the remarks line of your check.

[scentopine]

127. It's free market magic sponsored by the DLC and Fortune 500, love it

and die satisfied with the knowledge your labor helped your rich CEO and his family obtain access to the best health care system in the world.

The centrists claim had we paid attention to the campaign, we would have clearly heard Obama say "single payer is off the table" before we voted for him.

So, they tell me that we knew all along that this was what we were voting for. Same with off-shore oil drilling. Apparently, the centrists have discovered it was all explained to us ahead of time. We just decided to ignore it and vote for him anyway so its all our fault.

Centrists and right wingers are well represented. Liberals, not so much.

[AllentownJake]

129. Nixon would be a Pinko Commie in 2010. nt.

[liberation]

149. ... and even earlier than that

Given how most of Clinton's policies were to the right of Nixon's.

[scentopine]

153. Eisenhower would be called hippie anarchist and France lover. -nt

[Xavyman]

130. Sorry to hear that

Let's hope that more fixes are added to the bill that just passed. Even if it's better than the previous status quo more needs to be done. The lack of a public option does not help matters.

[AllentownJake]

131. The bill is worse than what preceded it

Before the bill we could opt out of the system and find doctors who had as well.

[ProSense]

132. "Before the bill we could opt out of the system "

The mandate hasn't gone into effect so if opting out is attractive, opt out.

[AllentownJake]

134. Funny where you choose to reply

Rought week.

Oil Spill (not his fault but endorsing drilling prior to it is politically bad), Jobs report (very bad), and people are waking up over the HCR bill with premium increases this year.

I suggest the President swim with dolphins. Good photo op given the times.

[ProSense]

136. "I suggest the President swim with dolphins."

Brilliant.

[AllentownJake]

137. Even you are losing your sense of humor

It is that bad isn't it.

What a fine mess we are in.

My primary solution for 2012 and restart is looking better every day.

[northzax]

205. You still can

Opt out that is. You just have to pay for your share of the common good, then you can refuse everything else.

[Warren Stupidity]

139. premiums have been going up at 2-3x inflation for years.

This reform, as bad as it is, does not even go into effect until 2014.

[grahamhgreen]

163. Which is why we need single payer or a public option minimum.

[Warren Stupidity]

177. agree 100% but the implication of the OP is that HCR raised his premiums.

which is 100% bullshit.

[liberal_at_heart]

180. That's not what I got from the OP.

I think the OP is saying the HCR didn't stop the premiums from going up, not that it caused it. HCR was suppose to make healthcare more affordable, but there are no price controls.

[Warren Stupidity]

184. read it again

"This is the Democratic majority's insurance reform. No wonder I didn't support it."

As I said, I barely support this crappy reform, but blaming legislation that does not take effect until 2014 for premium increases in 2010 is total bullshit.

[liberal_at_heart]

188. I did read it. I disagree with your assessement of the OP.

And the fact that it doesn't take affect until 2014 is part of the problem. They did this with the credit card reform too and we saw what happened with that.

[Dappleganger]

198. In agreement with you.

The OP's logic doesn't pass the smell test.

[SmileyRose]

141. I thought HCR does not apply to full time government employees

I'm confused.

[LWolf]

213. We buy private health insurance like everyone else. nt

[liberal_at_heart]

152. my husband had to switch medication knowing there would be side affects

Because the insurance doesn't pay a cent until we meet our deductible my husband had to switch to a cheaper medication even though it meant it would make his nerves sensitve making him feel like his skin is crawling and make him shiver and muscles twitch. Luckily we just had a stroke of luck :sarcasm: that my husband landed in the hospital with a panic attack. Now our deductible has been met and we can afford to switch back to the other medication. We're still waiting for them to mail the medication though because they waited 4 days to fax the prescription to his doctor so my husband goes on suffering. I didn't support the reform either because I knew it wouldn't change anything.

[killbotfactory]

156. We have the best government money can buy

And that's the fucking problem.

[lovuian]

159. The Health care reform is a joke

Insurance here went up 20% also with rising health care costs

[orbitalman]

161. Our premiums just went up 19%...after a 23% jump last year.

While we are using the insurance for prescription drugs, we are paying far more in total premiums and co-pays, etc, than the insurance is paying out in benefits for us alone. And this is group insurance.

This has the effect of taking drastic cuts in pay. It is killing our "standard" of living. The HCR from our view is an absolute FAILURE. Obama SHOULD have STARTED with single-payer. What to do now?

[grahamhgreen]

162. Where are all those who promised they would 'fix' this crappy bill?

[valerief]

189. They're busy NOT holding the banks and oil merchants accountable. nt

[pundaint]

164. How much is Medicare going up? Historic reform of the meaning of historic and reform only.

And Change you can still believe in, if reality just isn't your bag.

[johnaries]

166. Of course they are. But the 15-26% is a lot better than the 40%

that they would have gone up without HCR.

[LWolf]

212. That's a fictional figure.

They've been going up 1-3% each year BEFORE the health insurance bullshit bill.

[johnaries]

167. Policy-holder's premium goes up 69%

This is from Feb 19, before the HCR bill passed.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/health-care-shocker-policy-premium-goes-up-69-2010-02-19

LOS ANGELES (MarketWatch) -- While lawmakers and President Barack Obama are lamenting premium hikes of up to 39% that Anthem Blue Cross of California plans to charge policy-holders, Lori Creasey says that's nothing.

Try 69%.

Creasey, a Huntington Beach, Calif.-based attorney, said she received notices late last year for the two individual Anthem policies she bought for her college-age sons. For her 18-year-old son, Kyle, the monthly premium was climbing to $135 from $80, a 69% hike. Her 21-year-old, Walter, saw his premium jump to $139 from $84, a 65% increase.

[whatacountry09]

172. Not for Nothing, but....

I believe that our insurance premiums were going up with or without this HR.

[mdmc]

176. ditto

I am in the same boat.. Of course I did support the hcr bill - a feather in Obama's cap, a black eye for the GOP.

[closeupready]

185. Can you wait until 2014?

:sarcasm:

They had an office manager from Dreier LLP on 60 Minutes last night - Dreier is the guy who was convicted of running a ponzi scheme and his firm collapsed after that happened, leaving everyone jobless, and the office manager goes, "I'm 53 and now my health benefits are gone - what am I supposed to do, start over?!" And I wanted to ask her, "can you wait until 2014?"

[revolution breeze]

190. But my mother-in-law got a letter from her insurance company

Saying her deductible was going DOWN and it was thanks to Healthcare Reform. She is saving over $100/month on co-pays.

[LWolf]

211. What should I assume?

That mine are going up to reduce others'? Mine is no "cadillac" plan. I already couldn't afford the copays and deductibles BEFORE the new hikes.

My copays and deductibles are going up slightly; not the 15-26% that the premiums will.

[hippywife]

191. It's not the reform.

Our insurance rates have been going up every year since I started here over 7 years ago. And our deductibles have been going up. Last year, before reform, our employer ate the increase, because they knew we couldn't afford it, to the tune of $96,000.

I'm very sorry this is happening to you now, too. Premium increases are nothing new. :hug:

[LWolf]

209. So have ours.

They've been going up 1-3% every year. Not 15-26% in ONE YEAR, which is what they are doing under the new bill.

[sinkingfeeling]

192. Yeah, and mine went up about 15% for the prior 5 years in a row. So blame the reform.

[LWolf]

210. Mine went up 1-3% every year for the past 5 years.

Of course, mine comes from OEBB, which exists to make sure insurance premiums are as affordable as possible. 15-26% in one year hasn't happened until now.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

193. One of the crappiest aspects of this "reform" is that they've GIVEN the insurance companies

four years to continue jacking up premiums as much as they like. It was an open invitation to "profiteer now."

For all their public noise about fighting the bill, the insurance companies did meet in closed door sessions with the administration, and they got most of what they wanted, especially no public option, forced enrollment, continued permission to impose high deductibles, continued age discrimination, and a four-year delay in implementing the pathetic little reforms that are in the bill.

I finally went and dropped my insurance early this spring after I realized that if I had put those monthly premiums into a savings account (after applying them to paying off debts incurred during a very slow period in my business), I would have been able to pay for the treatment of my broken elbow out of pocket.

Business is now sustainable but on the slow side, and I am DELIGHTED not to have those hundreds of dollars no longer automatically withdrawn from my bank account. (Automatic withdrawal or annual lump sum payment was the only payment method they would allow, the greedy "non-profit" bastards.)

Yes, a major illness would bankrupt me. With a high deductible, it would have bankrupted me anyway.

I'm more frightened of not being able to pay my living expenses each month than I am of bankruptcy, because like many business owners, I've already been through it once, and while a hassle, it's not the end of the world.

[midnight]

194. But don't you feel like a winner getting to pass legislation that gives the middle

man all your power to decide that you don't get the medical care you and your doctor decided would best address your medical concern. O ya, and don't you feel like a winner, cause you won the mandate that forces those who can't afford to pay the middle men who block your access to medical care. We are winners, and I don't care- we passed legislation.

[lumberjack_jeff]

197. I'm sure that rates wouldn't have gone up if the HCB failed.

:sarcasm:

[LWolf]

208. Rates have been going up a bit each year.

The year after the health insurance reform bill passed, it's skyrocketing. Our premiums have gone up about 15% in the last 5 years. Now it's going to be 15-26% in one year; the first year under the new insurance bullshit bill.

[laundry_queen]

202. Here's an idea.

Ditch your health insurance and take the money you would use for premiums and invest in insurance companies.

You'd probably be further ahead.

Healthcare reform was a joke. Insurance companies are evil.
The end.

:freak:

[Greyhound]

204. But it would have been worse...

and every time a corporation gets less, the terrorists win!

Don'tcha know.

We need to have "our" corporations bigger than "their" corporations.

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

216. I'm starting to think that a person could be better off with just cheap accident coverage

and banking their premiums and looking into medical tourism.

I just read lately (probably here) about someone who flew to Ireland for a gallbladder operation and the flight, the operation, the stay, etc. was about one tenth what it would have cost him here. That is how you know things are completely out of whack.

At any rate, at some point in the very near future,more people will have to drop their coverages because the premiums are just too damn high. And of course we have YEARS to wait for the subsidies and exchanges to kick in.

[Gates9]

219. Reform My Ass

Handing 30,000,000 new customers to the private insurance carriers with a mandate that was designed to make the public option viable is hardly "change we can believe in". Add to that the fact that the government will now be subsidizing carriers for the stuff they don't want to pay for (I.E. pre-existing conditions), and you get one muddled fuck-up. No wonder people have taken to comparing Obama to Carter.

One big difference; Carter did what he knew was the right thing to do, politics be damned. He made some errors in judgement (mainly trusting the moral capacity of corporate America), but he did a lot of good, and wrote a good energy policy (which Reagan destroyed the moment he got in office). Carter would have demanded a public option, and gone after Bachman and Lieberman for fucking up the prospects.

I wish Obama had a little more Carter in him. At least then we would be a hell of a lot more trusting in him.

[gulliver]

221. When people are sick or die, there are always doctors around.

That's why I avoid them.

[tranche]

223. I actually don't see the connection here. You're premiums went up.

That sucks, but I don't see where the HCR bill was responsible for that? Or is this just a rant that after all that work on HCR your premiums are going up anyways? Which in your opinion shouldn't have.

[LWolf]

224. The connection is this:

My premiums have gone up every year. 1-3%.

Coincidentally, the year that health insurance "reform" is passed, that increase skyrockets to 15-26%.


If it's a rant, it's a rant about the waste of time passing a bad bill that isn't controlling costs instead of focusing on what we really needed: single payer.