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I doubt this situation in the Gulf of Mexico can be fixed.

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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 01:12 PM
Original message
I doubt this situation in the Gulf of Mexico can be fixed.
Edited on Sat May-22-10 01:23 PM by AllentownJake
For the past month, I've been reading about scheme after scheme to stop the oil well that was ruptured and is pouring oil into the Gulf of Mexico from dumping mass quanities of a toxic substance to one of the most important ecological areas of our country.

I don't think there is a solution other than the possibility of a relief well and I've read the Russians were able to do something with a Nuclear warhead in a situation a few years back.

We've been sold on everything from heavy mud to shredded golf balls and as each and every crazy idea fails, the estimates of what has already been poured into the Gulf of Mexico and what will be pouring into the Gulf increases.

As I've said in a few other people's posts concerning Haliburton, BP, and the US Government, just because you know why something happened doesn't mean you can return the situation to what it was before it happened.

If I go around sleeping with everyone I can without protection and share heroin needles and I get a disease, I'm pretty sure I can tell you how I got the disease. Doesn't mean I can cure my disease.

This disaster caused by a mixture of greed and incompetence may be one of the worst in human history. As for whether we can fix this I'm reminded of several other man-made disaster over the 20th century.


Love Canal




Chernobyl



Centralia, PA

I'm not one who wants the President to plug the leak himself (I don't think it can be easily done), nor other than firing Salazar am I looking for much of an immediate fix to this problem.

What I am looking for is those at BP and Haliburton and the company who leased the rig to be held accountable both financially and criminally. Public trials, no plea deals, long prison sentences in prisons in Louisana, Mississippi, Alabama or some other gulf state (they should meet some of the locals) for people who have broken laws. I want the people whose lives are ruined by this to be given the resources to start over and succeed. I want every asset of these companies and their officers on the line until the mess is cleaned up ecologically.

Lastly I want regulations in place so that this type of bullshit doesn't happen off the coast of California, Alaska, North Carolina or New Jersey.

I don't think this liberal is being unreasonable.

Oh and I want a skittle shitting unicorn.
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LiberalLoner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 01:14 PM
Response to Original message
1. Seems like justice/punishment is only for poor people. Shrug. n/t
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lunatica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 01:15 PM
Response to Original message
2. This planet is going to end up being a sewer
as long as we're on it.
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alterfurz Donating Member (723 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #2
51. "The earth is an organism, and that organism has a skin...
...and that skin has diseases; one of these diseases is man." -- Nietzsche
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cognoscere Donating Member (381 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 10:46 PM
Response to Reply #51
70. I've always maintained that the Earth had the cancer known as man. N/T
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tuckessee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 11:40 PM
Response to Reply #70
73. Are you going to put your money where your mouth is.....
...and remove your cancerous self from this fair planet. :)
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BlueJac Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-23-10 06:11 AM
Response to Reply #73
81. cute
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tuckessee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-23-10 10:29 AM
Response to Reply #81
93. Cute, yes (notice the smiley icon?) and a very legitimate question.
People who think humanity is an evil, cancerous blight on the planet seem to do nothing to remedy the problem even though they can easily take a step towards righting this wrong.

But the reality is these people think everyone else is the cancer and that they, in their enlightened & superior selves, are worthy of living while rest of us are "the problem" and should be eliminated.

Next time you look at your kids or grandkids remember that the poster above thinks they are nothing more than a malignant growth.

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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-23-10 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #93
95. Don't be so binary, cancer can go into remission if the system is given healthy input.
How about we try that first?
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cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 01:17 PM
Response to Original message
3. After looking at the charts and maps that SKP posted yesterday,
setting off any kind of explosion to collapse the hole looks like it would just blow the tops off of other holes nearby.....

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blindpig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 01:18 PM
Original message
This is cut and dry
Expropriate BP without compensation. The assets of the officers is a good idea too.

Of course I know that will never happen with our present government, it is but the crowd control subsidiary of Capital. And that is why we must do something about that too.
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 01:24 PM
Response to Original message
6. yep
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xiamiam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #6
30. great graphic..nt
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cilla4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 01:31 PM
Response to Original message
11. Very good.
"Crowd control subsidiary of Capital." Where do you come up with this stuff? :)
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neverforget Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 01:32 PM
Response to Original message
12. We can with the National Emergency Powers Act.
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flamingdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 05:27 PM
Response to Original message
48. But they are headquartered in England .. nt
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customerserviceguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-23-10 11:17 AM
Response to Original message
99. We already have the government mechanisms in place
to take BP's assets, and we have for many, many years.

We just need to throw the very best lawyers we can into the fight, that will perservere to the end, and that end is the seizure of BP's domestic assets to pay the judgments rendered in the courts. It's the exact same thing that happens when a house gets foreclosed on.
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Barack_America Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 01:18 PM
Response to Original message
4. Hey man, we can still enjoy the beaches!!


Bridget Hargrove of Baton Rouge, Louisiana, her four-year-old son Ayden and one-year-old daughter, Emma, wade in a baby pool away from the oil contaminated Gulf of Mexico on Grand Isle beach in Grand Isle, Louisiana May 21, 2010. Grand Isle Mayor David Camardelle said the town has closed its beach effective from noon Friday due to the presence of oil on the beach. For nearly a month, roughly 5,000 barrels (210,000 gallons/795,000 liters) of oil per day have been gushing from BP's broken Deepwater oil well situated in the Gulf of Mexico, in what could be named the worst oil spill in U.S. History. REUTERS/Sean Gardner
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robinblue Donating Member (385 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #4
22. Whow, -that pic says volumns!!
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marions ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #4
27. well that's what you call adaptation!
x(

I don't know how people can do this. They just have no clue.

Got yer water, got yer sun, got yer sand...what's the problem?
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dixiegrrrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-23-10 09:09 AM
Response to Reply #27
91. Skin cancer?
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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #4
32. Upsetting but true picture. Stolen. n/t
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caseymoz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #4
65. What will they do when the water comes out of the hose black?

Just sayin'
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closeupready Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-23-10 12:17 AM
Response to Reply #4
77. Why, oh, why, is Reuters still quoting the 5,000 barrels a day factoid, when it's wrong?
Nobody but BP is still claiming it's only 5,000 barrels a day.
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Jennicut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 01:23 PM
Response to Original message
5. I have been trying to get this across on DU for the last two days.
It is not that the govt. or even BP don't want to stop this (losing the oil means loss of money and more in cleanup), it is that no one has ever had to stop a leak this far down in the bottom of the ocean. Two months until the relief well is finished and that may be the final best solution to stopping the entire leak. The best scientists and engineers are already working on this. If they are having trouble, you know this thing is beyond a disaster.

I want BP and co to get dragged to court and pay. I could care less about jail, the money is the most important thing. Make them pay.
And regulations beyond regulations. Put back what Cheney took away. Companies will have to pay short term to avoid long term cost like this. Makes perfect sense economically. Will that happen? Who the hell knows.
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. I want to see BP officials and major share holders forced to drink a quart of BP crude.
And ALL of their assets seized, including their homes, cars, clothing and college trust founds for their children.

They cannot suffer enough for the destruction to our ecosystem... we are all going to suffer mightily from this disaster.



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Jennicut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #7
14. Now the drinking the quart of crude thing I could easily get behind....
Maybe it will poison their insides and make them die off...like the poor animals they have wrecked havoc on.
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Bluzmann57 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-23-10 05:44 AM
Response to Reply #14
79. Not to mention the eleven dead men
A lot of people seem to be forgetting that this whole thing started with an explosion and it killed eleven working men. People are (rightfully) concerned about the wildlife affected by this disaster but seem to be forgetting the human beings who had lives. They probably had wives and children. And I suspect that their survivors miss them a lot.
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Scuba Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #7
44. +1
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. Something about a BP Executive sharing a jail cell
with a family member of someone say in the shrimping industry warms my heart.

After a fair trial of course.
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donco6 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #9
15. With THIS administration?
Never happen.
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #15
25. Carville has land down there
I imagine he's screaming at Rahm right now. ;-)
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donco6 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #25
47. That explains his comments the other day.
Hmmm . . .
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 08:03 PM
Response to Reply #47
56. Fuck if I was rich and owned land in the gulf
Edited on Sat May-22-10 08:05 PM by AllentownJake
Pissed off is what I would be.
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Jennicut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #9
17. LOL. But you know they would get the non violent white collar
jail. Like club med.
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. I don't know
The elites have this wonderful way of eating their own when one of their own fucks up their beach house.
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maryf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-23-10 08:56 AM
Response to Reply #9
87. +1
:thumbsup:
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CoffeeCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 01:28 PM
Response to Original message
8. I worry about Obama...
Last night, on the CBS News, Katie Couric reported that BP officials said
it will probably take until August to plug the oil gusher. The damage
from waiting until August would be more than catastrophic. Is there even
a word for how damaging it would be to our planet.

The problem is...people can't see it. It's not like a fire, that you can
see burning and progressing. The damage is hidden and there is a delay
in the damage.

I'm afraid that this disaster will have Obama's name on it. I think he
needs to be doing more. He's allowing BP to run the show, and BP was
even allowed to threaten arrest--by using our own Coast Guard!--when CBS
reporters tried to take pictures of oil-soaked beaches.

I don't have all of the answers, but if this gusher keeps flowing--this
will be an epic, paradigm-shifting event. Our government has scientists
and researchers--they should be dispatched and they should be working
to solve this.
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Barack_America Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #8
16. You can see it here. You can watch animals die in real time.
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/wkrg

In the past twenty minutes I've seen an eel and a fish swept up and killed.

:cry:
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xiamiam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #16
34. horrifying image no matter how many times i see it... beyond comprehension
why cant they just try everything...excluding the bomb...hay, hair, costners thing..everything..
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The Hope Mobile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-23-10 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #16
94. the live stream is now at http://bit.ly/oilcam nt
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MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-23-10 12:16 AM
Response to Reply #8
76. Relax, Obama's Doing Plenty
27 new offshore drilling permits issued since the explosion, 26 of which had environmental review waived.

What more could we ask for, really?
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riderinthestorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-23-10 09:06 AM
Response to Reply #76
90. Oh gawd, this makes me feel ill.
I just googled it to double check (not that I doubt you but want to send this factoid on....).

Pretty damn sickening.
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GoCubsGo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-23-10 10:56 AM
Response to Reply #8
97. "Our government has scientists and researchers..."
That's very true, but... Any of the departments that would have any bearing on solving this problem were bled dry by the Bush administration. DOE, USFWS, USGS..., all of 'em. In all likelihood, none of them have the means or personnel to solve this. The ones who can are all working at the oil companies making the big bucks.
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donco6 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 01:30 PM
Response to Original message
10. I posted something similar yesterday.
And I agree. We've created a monster we cannot tame - with any amount of money.
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KamaAina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 01:32 PM
Response to Original message
13. I hear Angola has lots of extra room
the infamous La. prison featured in Dead Man Walking. :evilgrin:
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #13
20. Thats is the perfect place for the BP execs who survive their other punishment:
Drinking a quart of crude oil in Jackson Square before they are tarred and feathered.

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KamaAina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. Way'at Swampy! By the way, is it true the famed bartenders of NOLA have concocted an "Oil Slick"?
Edited on Sat May-22-10 01:41 PM by KamaAina
in the tradition of the "Katrina Rita", "Category 5", etc.? So I had heard. :rofl:

edit: Tarring and feathering practically does itself: the tar is all along the coastline, and the feathers come from all the dead birds. :(
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #23
26. Probably, but I'm too busy... no, too FUCKING ANGRY to drink or party!
:grr:

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TheWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #20
50. If I were those BP execs I would be frantically making calls to Blackwater for some Private Security
If this gets bad enough, there are going to be many pitchforks begging for heads.
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Karmadillo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 01:35 PM
Response to Original message
18. Maybe you're right, but
Edited on Sat May-22-10 01:39 PM by Karmadillo
the government should be making the same kind of effort it did when it was "necessary" to let the banksters loot the treasury of trillions of dollars or when it was "necessary" to pass billion dollar supplemental after billion dollar supplemental to finance our crimes in Iraq and Afghanistan. A Manhattan project to save the Gulf isn't too much to ask. Get everybody who's somebody to start looking for a fix. After we've done our absolute best, maybe there would be a time to say it's over, but that time isn't yet.
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. Agreed
I just don't think that they will have one before the method that has worked in shallower water works.

When dealing with a process that has potentially horrofic consequences, it is probably better to have a plan of what to do if something obvious could go wrong (drilling for oil and the well rupturing) before starting the process.

Genie cannot be put back in the bottle and there are no time machines.
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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #18
35. I love you. n/t
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Donnachaidh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 01:46 PM
Response to Original message
24. I would like to make PERSONALLY RESPONSIBLE *any* politician that voted for offshore oil drilling
Edited on Sat May-22-10 01:46 PM by Donnachaidh
We take ALL possessions of drug dealers -- including houses, money, possessions -- WHY isn't this being done to the corporations who are destroying this planet?

WHY are we letting off the hook people like DICK CHENEY and his behind the scenes carving up of the planet for his energy companies?

WHY?
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The Wielding Truth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 08:52 PM
Response to Reply #24
60. Exactly the way I feel. They sold the planet and our country out!
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roamer65 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 01:56 PM
Response to Original message
28. All the king's horses and all the king's men...
couldn't put Humpty Dumpty back together again.

We have no business drilling holes 4 miles into the Earth's crust, straight into high pressure oil and nat gas.
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KillCapitalism Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 01:57 PM
Response to Original message
29. All because we're too lazy/cheap to use/develop enviro. responsible power
Forget coal, oil, natural gas, nuclear.

Time to move onto hydrogen, geothermal, solar, wind, biofuel, and hydroelectric.
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #29
39. NOT too lazy/cheap to use/develop environmentally responsible power. Those options
have been taken off the table since the late 70's. Oh sure, there have been some token gestures to developing alternative energy systems, but the Big Energy Cartels took Congress by the throat as soon as they saw Jimmy Carter in a sweater delivering his national call for energy reform, and when Ronnie Rayguns was elected they sealed the deal.

Alternative energy solutions must be readily available and inexpensive enough for average folks to use. The cartels ensured that would not happen. That legacy is one reason we are enduring this environmental nightmare in the Gulf.


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amborin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 02:37 PM
Response to Original message
31. prez should order BP to stop Corexit; it's cosmetic; but GS owns Nalco, which owns Corexit, and...
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. I knew it would only be a matter of time before the Vampire Squid made and appearence
If it stinks like death and involves a government contract or regulator, Goldman is in the area.
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amborin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #33
36. GS's tentacles are everywhere, and have a stranglehold on our gov't, it seems
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blue sky at night Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 03:09 PM
Response to Original message
37. we all need to ask ourselves....
what is it going to take for me to take responsibility for the way things work in this country, when am I going to change the way I live to stop ruining the planet?

Holier-than-thou as I sit at the Gas Pump in my EIGHT MILE PER GALLON fucking SUV and PICKUP TRUCK JUST isn't going to wash anymore.

THINK ABOUT IT!
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #37
38. Sell me an electric vehicle that I can use and afford
Edited on Sat May-22-10 03:17 PM by AllentownJake
I'll do it. I'm buying a scooter since my commute to work has gotten considerably less with my new job. I drive a car with reasonable milage and have a battery operated lawn mower and weed wacker

That being said, we all have to work and eat.
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blue sky at night Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #38
54. I admire you.....
you are doing something about your gas consumption, but this is just one aspect, the American lifestyle is ridiculous in how much fuel, power and resources we waste.
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #37
41. blue sky at night, I drive an SUV because I need it for work and I don't apologize for it.
I've been trying to get my government to raise the CAFE standards for decades. i've voted Democratic, progressive in every election since 1970, but the Democrats have failed to own the need for higher gas mileage standards for ALL vehicles just as the Republicans have. I did see that President Obama is asking for just that now. HOORAY finally.

You should THINK ABOUT how people who need heavy duty vehicles for their occupations are being stuck with no suitable options.

It does no one any good when we start making scapegoats out of people. Hell, right now I couldn't afford to buy a higher-mileage work vehicle even if they came out with one. The recession is going to keep a lot of people from upgrading. This is not a simple issue of SUV and pickup truck drivers being the enemy.

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blue sky at night Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #41
53. i dont think you get it.......
it was just ONE example of where we need to change, so for you to think I am making SUV Drivers out to be the enemy, you are wrong....I am sick of so many people pointing fingers when they need to look hard at their own lifestyles. Count how many SINGLE Occupant Ford F-150s you see on a given transit to work, you can't tell me these guys are driving them because the "have" to...
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 08:14 PM
Response to Reply #53
57. Maybe I would have "gotten it" if you had said, "here's one example of a problem"
instead of going off on everyone who drives an SUV or a pickup truck.

THINK ABOUT IT.

How about everyone who thinks they have to keep their home heated to 72° or cooled to 65°? How about everyone who thinks that because they drive a low-mileage vehicle, they can go anywhere they want at anytime, instead of planning and minimizing their vehicle usage? How about those of us who think taking a flight to Barbados for vacation is a great idea? How about those of us who think we have to buy plastic packaging and tupperware to keep our veggies and leftovers in our refrigerators, instead of recycling glass jars with lids and reusing plastic packaging?

There are a gazillion things that we Americans do everyday in our profligate use of petroleum products, but so many want to single out anyone who drives a larger vehicle. Frankly, it pisses me off. Can you tell?

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blue sky at night Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 10:18 PM
Response to Reply #57
68. hey I think you have a problem there dude....
all I am saying is we need to take responsibility for our actions, guess you get a little bent about that eh??....its part of growing up you know.

Heres a little post I just found: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x537642

Learn IT, LIVE IT, KNOW IT!!
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-23-10 12:35 AM
Response to Reply #68
78. Tell me about growing up, Twit. I am overwhelmed by your wisdom and perspicacity. Not.
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blue sky at night Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-23-10 07:49 AM
Response to Reply #78
86. OH....he called me a twit....
name calling, another sign of a weak position, a weak mentality, a person who knows he is wrong. Have a nice day!
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bread_and_roses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-23-10 07:28 AM
Response to Reply #37
85. Are we to stop eating? Working? Wearing clothes? Our entire lives are soaked with oil.
The food we eat. The clothes we wear. Our jobs in a fossil fuel driven economy. (Oh, and cyberspace - most likely powered by coal-fired power plants - real environmental!)

Look, I try to live in as environmentally responsible way as I can, but I can't stop eating, driving to and for work, wearing clothes. There is no way that any "consumer" action can significantly change our oil soaked and coal dust covered lives. So I try to buy cotton clothing and eschew polyester/nylon/etc (which I hate the feel of anyway) - so what? The cotton was no doubt grown with petroleum based fertilizers/pesticides/herbicides. And no, I can't afford organically grown cotton clothing - nor can most people. I try to buy used - clothing/appliances/cars/household - to minimize my "carbon footprint" of newly manufactured goods - but I compute hours and hours per day between work and recreation, sucking up that coal-fired energy while I bemoan the blasted West Virginia landscape.

This is not about "personal responsibility." Don't ask working Americans to spend hours and hours they don't have (working more than anyone else in the Western world, for less pay) and money they don't have (with wages having been stagnant for thirty years or so) to save the world. We can't.

We have to have law and policy and tax structures and transportation policy and and and - first among the ands being governance free from Corporate bribery. And we're not going to get it.

I laugh at the 2012'ers, wondering how they can convince themselves that a people who thought they had to rip the living hearts out of human beings to keep the sun god happy can be supposed to have known the future. But they may get the last laugh, though it won't have much to do with the ancient Mayans.
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Dems to Win Donating Member (245 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 03:49 PM
Response to Original message
40. I want BP to suffer the corporate death penalty
If corporations have the rights of humans, they should have the responsibilities, too.

11 counts of criminally negligent homicide, for starters.

Disband the entire corporation and confiscate its assets. Send the CEO and Board of Directors to prison for life.

I'd like a unicorn, too. And rainbows.
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #40
43. I need to incorporate myself. nt.
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 03:52 PM
Response to Original message
42. Rec. nt
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meow mix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 04:32 PM
Response to Original message
45. leaks all over the place.. looking at the new videos today i now agree
im not seeing how they are going to be able to shut it off
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lib2DaBone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 05:21 PM
Response to Original message
46. It's all about the almighty dollar.. make a profit..screw your neighbor...
Edited on Sat May-22-10 05:24 PM by lib2DaBone
i.e. The perfect Republican trickle-down business plan.

And what is more strange.. the Evangelical Christian Right Religious church people claim this as their plan for the future of America? Wha?
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mkultra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 05:36 PM
Response to Original message
49. i get the sense that BPs balls will be crushed but...
we must wait until the fix the leak before we crush them
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cdsilv Donating Member (883 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 07:26 PM
Response to Reply #49
55. Making some gumbo right now out of the last fresh gulf seafood I could find...
..here in houston. There's still some 'in the system'. If you like gulf seafood, better get it while you can, because I think the 'gulf gusher goo' will kill it all before it's stopped, if the can ever stop it.

Damn BP criminals.
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tango-tee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 08:36 PM
Response to Reply #55
59. Lived in Beaumont
many years ago. My son and his family still live there. My heart aches thinking of this catastrophe, disaster, tragedy... whatever we may want to call it. A way of life will be gone forever, once the ecosystem is destroyed and the animals are dead.

Enjoy that seafood gumbo while you still can, my friend. Despite this horrible situation, when you mentioned gumbo I remember that wonderful aroma from the roux, the vegetables, the crab and shrimp and oysters bubbling along. And cornbread. Gotta have cornbread with it.

:hi:
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cdsilv Donating Member (883 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 08:57 PM
Response to Reply #59
61. Arrgh! forgot cornbread. Well, I made enough for a few days, will make cornbread tomorrow!
Edited on Sat May-22-10 09:01 PM by cdsilv
Oh yeah, no oysters to be found anywhere (may doesn't have an 'R'?), mine is made with shrimp, crawfish, crab and sausage. Really wanted some oysters, but so it goes.
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tango-tee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 09:05 PM
Response to Reply #61
63. That sounds soooo good.
You can never make just "a little" gumbo. It always turns into a huge pot, doesn't it? And it gets better each time you reheat it. Do you put okra and filé powder in yours?

Here I am, thousands of miles away, mouth watering.

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Turbineguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 06:47 PM
Response to Original message
52. They are right to try everything.
But yes, it may take relief wells to plug this. But maybe somebody will get lucky.
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MJJP21 Donating Member (262 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 08:32 PM
Response to Original message
58. Another idea
I just thought another idea might work. I figure this drill hole cannot be too wide so why not use an unarmed torpedo fitted with reverse proof fins similar to a cement anchor in construction. The torpedo should be fired straight down as far as possible and when it is down as far as it can go the fins would expand into the rock and prevent it from reversing. Then behind the torpedo use hydraulic cement which expands to seal the hole.
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jeff47 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #58
66. Um....no.
The oil and gas is shooting out of the pipe at more than 10,000 PSI. You can't get a torpedo to go into the pipe against that.

Even assuming you could, the cement would be blown out of the pipe before it sets.
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 09:02 PM
Response to Original message
62. am gun-shy about the nuke solution
Since seeing those graphics showing all the platforms and pipelines in the gulf, I am REALLY nervous about that option now.

Yep, we are so screwed. And yes, I want some accountability. Maybe some executives, managers, & regulators in irons.

Oh, you need to re-think the skittle shitting unicorn. New meme is something about walking on water. Do we need ponies on jet-skis or skittle shitting seahorses now? I can't keep up.
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man4allcats Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 09:06 PM
Response to Original message
64. Re: "If I go around sleeping with everyone I can without protection and share heroin needles..."
"If I go around sleeping with everyone I can without protection and share heroin needles and I get a disease, I'm pretty sure I can tell you how I got the disease. Doesn't mean I can cure my disease."

On the other hand, if you did all that, at least you'd have had a pretty good time before you self-destructed. If it were me, I'd probably throw a little blow and some Jack Daniels into the mix as well. If you're gonna do it, you might as well do it right. :evilgrin:

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Usrename Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 09:48 PM
Response to Original message
67. I want to bring out the guillotines.
Heads on pikes!!!
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tbredbeck Donating Member (95 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 10:45 PM
Response to Original message
69. You've got a better chance at that unicorn than the rest of it... 8-(
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 11:43 PM
Response to Reply #69
74. Better shit Skittles
Preferably tropical flavored.
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varelse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 10:59 PM
Response to Original message
71. K&R
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Optimistic Donating Member (139 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-22-10 11:20 PM
Response to Original message
72. I hear that this well can be stopped in Hours But
If they do, The well will be useless, and for BP it is cheaper to lose millions of barrels of oil because if they stop it, It will cost alot more to build a new well,
If this is true, The US Gov't should arrest and execute the Board of Directors of BP and shut the Company down for good and sieze all its assets,
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MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-23-10 12:14 AM
Response to Original message
75. Thanks AllentownJake - Excellent as Usual
Hopefully a lot of us have learned something from this colossal fuck up.
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-23-10 05:55 AM
Response to Original message
80. Allentown Jake, I just posted this on CERCLA
which is the law concerning environmental clean-ups. There is a process for this. It is already in place, but the process is complex.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8396797
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BlueJac Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-23-10 06:12 AM
Response to Original message
82. I think we should blog about it!
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-23-10 06:57 AM
Response to Reply #82
84. Any suggestions on how to make powerful pepole with paid armed thugs accountable
Would be gladly taken.
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-23-10 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #84
96. The pen is mightier than the sword, and an informed populace is dreaded by power. IOW
keep up the good work.
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elocs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-23-10 06:52 AM
Response to Original message
83. You're way more likely to get the skittle shitting unicorn first.
Reality is a harsh mistress.
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old mark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-23-10 09:00 AM
Response to Original message
88. Jake: Consider the Exxon Valdez spill in 1989, of much less volume -
it is still being cleaned up-damage is still being done from it.

The Gulf in this area provides a huge financial reasoursce for the US, not just for fishermen, andnot just for people living in the area as seems to be the TV New's idea...BP and every company associated with this criminally negligent act MUST be accountable for all of it, certainly, but the real scope of this disaster is not registering - IT CAN NOT BE FIXED. The life in this area won't come back when the oil flow is stopped, if it ever is stopped. This act has erased the Gulf-and is is spreading to the south east coastal US, maybe as far north as the Carolinas, and maybe beyond that.

Thinking this all can be "saved" is dreaming, much as BP was doing when they thought this could never happen.

Rec.

mark
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maryf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-23-10 09:01 AM
Response to Original message
89. They should shut down all off shore rigs now...
but that's not going to happen either...I keep switching from rage to despair...:mad: :grr: :cry: :mad: :grr: :cry: :mad: :grr: :cry: :mad: :grr: :cry: :mad: :grr: :cry: :mad: :grr: :cry: :mad: :grr: :cry: :mad: :grr: :cry: :mad: :grr: :cry: :mad: :grr: :cry: :mad: :grr: :cry: :mad: :grr: :cry:
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avaistheone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-23-10 09:59 AM
Response to Original message
92. Associated Press: Cleaning oil-soaked wetlands may be impossible The gooey oil washing into the maze
Edited on Sun May-23-10 10:00 AM by avaistheone1
The gooey oil washing into the maze of marshes along the Gulf Coast could prove impossible to remove, leaving a toxic stew lethal to fish and wildlife, government officials and independent scientists said.

Officials are considering some drastic and risky solutions: They could set the wetlands on fire or flood areas in hopes of floating out the oil.

They warn an aggressive cleanup could ruin the marshes and do more harm than good. The only viable option for many impacted areas is to do nothing and let nature break down the spill.

More than 50 miles of Louisiana's delicate shoreline already have been soiled by the massive slick unleashed after the Deepwater Horizon rig burned and sank last month. Officials fear oil eventually could invade wetlands and beaches from Texas to Florida. Louisiana is expected to be hit hardest.

http://rawstory.com/rs/2010/0522/cleaning-oilsoaked-wetlands-impossible/





You are right Jake. It may never be possible to restore these wetlands to what they once were. Shame. Shame. Shame.
k&r
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avaistheone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-23-10 11:00 AM
Response to Original message
98. Gulf Oil Leaks Could Gush for Years - "We don't have any idea how to stop this," expert says.

If the oil can't be stopped, the underground reservoir may continue bleeding until it's dry, Simmons suggested.

The most recent estimates are that the leaking wellhead has been spewing 5,000 barrels (210,000 gallons, or 795,000 liters) of oil a day.

And the oil is still flowing robustly, which suggests that the reserve "would take years to deplete," said David Rensink, incoming president of the American Association of Petroleum Geologists.

"You're talking about a reservoir that could have tens of millions of barrels in it."

At that rate, it's possible the Gulf oil spill's damage to the environment will have lingering effects akin to those of the largest oil spill in history, which happened in Saudi Arabia in 1991, said Miles Hayes, co-founder of the science-and-technology consulting firm Research Planning, Inc., based in South Carolina.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2010/05/100513-... /




Greed is good?
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paparush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-23-10 11:41 AM
Response to Original message
100. "We've got out best men working on it.."
"Yeah, who?"

"Our best men..."



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Aaria Donating Member (238 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-23-10 11:41 AM
Response to Original message
101. Lets say you shook up a bottle of champaigne and popped the cork, now put it back in.
Most of what is in the field that they drilled into is natural gas. When you watch the video of the leak and you notice the white gray shit coming out with the oil, it's the gas. Every 33 ft of water adds 1 atmosphere of pressure to a gas, reducing it's size by half. So a cubic foot of gas at the bottom of the ocean becomes a cubic foot to the 151st power. Now imagine putting a pipe over that and sucking it out, the expanding gas would push the oil back out of the pipe, there wouldn't be any room for oil as it went to the surface. Now the scariest part of this is that, lets say they decide to use a small explosive to close the pipe, not an earth shattering nuke just 5 lbs of C4 to collapse the pipe upon it's self. The pipe was not completely concreted into the hole. That's where a 10 inch pipe in a 24 inch hole has concrete poured around it so that the pipe sits still while the oil goes through it and the oil pressure doesn't push the pipe out of the hole. Now with what one engineer said could be over 100k lbs of pressure behind this, suddenly shutting the pipe off could cause the whole thing to be shot out of the ground. It's so very true when the one engineer said that "we don't know what to do." They have never had to deal with a volcano like this.
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-23-10 11:45 AM
Response to Original message
102. Remember the dude who said the island would tip over not long ago?
I think you won't have to worry about CA AK NC or NJ. They will sink from migration.
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DeSwiss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-23-10 11:46 AM
Response to Original message
103. K&R
- Sadly, I think you're more likely to get that "skittle shitting unicorn" than any of that other stuff.....
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-23-10 12:02 PM
Response to Original message
104. A-fucking-men, Jake!
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scentopine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-23-10 12:48 PM
Response to Original message
105. The only unicorn around here is now shitting oil in the Gulf -nt
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TatonkaJames Donating Member (502 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-23-10 01:15 PM
Response to Original message
106. It can and will be fixed when....
BP figures how to fix it so they can continue producing oil from it.
It could have been covered a month ago but closing off the flow of $$
wasn't an option and still isn't apparently. The bottom line to them
is always the bottom line, so this will continue until we all get off
our lazy arses and start yelling "We're mad as hell and we're not going
to take it anymore." But that mentality went out long ago in the 60's.
Sad; they have broken us.
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Faygo Kid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-23-10 01:20 PM
Response to Original message
107. It's gone. The Gulf of Mexico is dead for our lifetimes.
Birds, fish, reptiles, amphibians, life itself - gone.
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pundaint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-24-10 10:15 AM
Response to Original message
108. Dear Mr. A. Jake, on behalf of British Petroleum, we are authorized to issue you one
skittle shitting unicorn, if you will agree not to press your ecological damage claim. We should be in a position to deliver your unicorn early next week, as we are refitting one of the Gold Shitting Senatorial models to Skittles in our Washington shop in anticipation of your acceptance.
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-24-10 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #108
109. Make it tropical
or no fucking deal.
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