I finally made it to CA - some thoughts from my trip.....

[The Straight Story]

As mentioned before in some of my posts I was moving from Ohio to CA. I drove 28 hours from Columbus to Grants, NM with 2 dogs and a 30' truck, got some sleep, then headed into Bakersfield, CA, the next day. Just about done unpacking finally (the truck, still lots of boxes to unpack).

My wife and daughter were here waiting one me, which drove me to drive as long as I did. I left on a Sunday and got here Tuesday.

I listened to a lot of talk radio on my drive, and I came up with a question:

Observation/Question------------------

This applies to more than one group:

I was listening to some guy on a show talk about antisemitism. He was a Jewish writer, and I can't recall his name or the show (I was 23 hours in to driving, cut me some slack....). He was talking about the causes of it, why some people in various countries and faiths did not like Jews.

He mentioned usury and other issues, how Jews seemed to stick together in things from entertainment industry to politics. Not in a bad way mind you, just exploring why his people were not trusted by some and were hated by people.

It reminded me of how we asked questions after 9/11 about America - not that we were anti-American as some would call us, but we wanted to know WHY some people hated us enough to do what they did to us and not to say...Belgium as an example.

We were willing to validate the feelings but not the actions - we desired to know the 'why' while condemning the actions.

So the QUESTIONS are:

Is it 'wrong' to ask "why does group X hate/dislike/distrust group Y" and does it lead to 'hate' if we try to examine the reasons why?

To wit - if we bash on christians here, does that lead to hate of them? If we 'bash' on jews, does that lead to hate of them? Blacks, whites, latinos, atheists, republicans, christians, etc and so on?

When does honest questioning of 'why' lead to hate?

There are reasons why some folks don't like Christians, Jews, Blacks, etc and so on - are examining those issues wrong?

The right screams that we lend credence to the hate against America by complaining about the wrongs we have done, the Jews claim we do the same if we talk about issues involving them, Christians, blacks, women, et al can say the same.

When does talking about issues in relation a group lead to hate? And should we as progressives focus on the negative of a group and discuss it or ignore it and only talk about the good of a group so as to not lend ammo to the haters?

Castro, Hugo, etc and so on - we can say good and bad about. And we do. We try to balance it all out - and to get to balance we have to have all views on the table.

It just seems that some groups we cannot speak negative about and some we can.

One wonders why.


-----------

Sorry if this is disjointed. I have been through hell on the drive, my back is out, on several meds and sipping a Corona with Lime as I type :)

But man it feels good to be in So. California and getting my life started over.

I missed being here on DU, but I am back finally.

Flame away, I will douse it with beer ;)

[GregD]

1. Welcome to CA

Too tired at the moment to answer any of your questions with any serious thought.

[Hekate]

2. Hey -- welcome to SoCal. Glad to hear from you again, & hope your family's luck turns...

...all for the better. :hug:

You notice I'm not engaging the rest of the post! Right now my own brain is tired, and besides this topic is one that deserves unravelling over a space of time. It's complicated as all hell, and flaming won't help. There's history and religion and politics -- and then there's the uses of hatred in rulership, and hatred as a lazy way of thinking, and hatred as ignorance, and as a bad habit.

I'll let others bat this around tonight. I'm just glad you made it into SoCal. Enjoy that Corona and lime.
:hi:

Hekate

[Solo_in_MD]

25. Bakerfield is not SoCal

in so many ways...

[Booster]

3. I, too, welcome you to Calif - it's been just beautiful here for days

and days. I hope you enjoy this wonderful state as much as I do. I also am not up to answering your questions as it is about my bedtime, but just wanted you to feel welcome in our state. Get some rest.

[underseasurveyor]

4. Another *WELCOME to California*

:toast: Wanted to tell you that. Glad you arrived safe and sound.

[tandot]

5. We made the trip from Wichita Falls, TX to N CA in September of 2004

Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, and then the Mojave desert to Bakersfield, then up to Modesto, and then North of Sacramento. He was riding the big Penske truck and I was right behind him with my Toyota Corolla. The back of the Penske truck said "Go Penske" and that what I was yelling whenever we went uphill and the truck slowed down..."Go Penske" ... "Go Penske"..."WTF...Go Penske - go faster" ... all the way through the desert. I've never felt that much desperation and aggression than driving hours after hours through the nothingness of the Mojave desert. I promised myself to never ever take that trip again. I've never felt that way.

I wasn't able to listen to any radio. I just wanted the desert to go away...

Welcome to California. I am so happy to be here :hi:


Oh, and to your questions about hate and faith...there is no good answer (especially that time of night). We get most offensive if someone questions something we don't have any proof for? There is no science that can back it up?

It is too late for me to muse about it...Have a good night :)

[villager]

6. Let me also add: Welcome aboard to the Left Coast!

Let me know when you get to Buck Owens' Crystal Palace to check out some tunes!

After you've rested.

[july302001]

7. chill man...

Grants Enchants!!!!

Awesome cross-country road trip stop! A great place to listen to the wind rustle through the sagebrush!

You're now in Cally, which is nothing else if not a diverse place.

Go to a taco stand tomorrow for lunch, spritz on some of the x-hot salsa, and watch the muscle aches from moving disappear as the capsaicin from the hot pepper does its physiological trick.

Then visit a different taco stand each day for lunch for 5 days. Take the weekend off for sandwiches at home. Then repeat...5 different taco stands, 5 different salsas for the 5 days of the week. Ask for cebolla y cilantro (onion and cilantro).

In the evening, chill with that Corona n' lime.

Your problems in Cally are going to be coming up with the rent or the mortgage payment - - - real estate is gawdawful expensive in Cally. Second is going to be the price of gas. Hope you're driving an economical vehicle.

Jewish? Christian? Huh???!! What difference does it make?

Race and ethnicity blend together more in Cally than they do in the crazed world of talk radio.

[The Straight Story]

11. I hear ya!

I spent a lot of time listening to the radio and without sleep, so it all blends together :)

Been to several taco stands, the wife grew up here and knows em all - but nothing compares to the fine dinners she has made.

I live in a mostly Latino neighborhood now, renting from the in-laws. I have already made friends here by helping folks with their computer problems for free (free to those on this street). My daughter (6) has a new best friend and we have met several neighbors now all of whom seem to need some form of computer help (my line of work).

I am loving being back here, and am resolved to get to know all our neighbors on this street. Soon as I tell em I know computers and will help em for free, they are coming out of their shells here to talk to me - the one neighbor told me people here wave to each other but no on talks. Now we are all talking.

I had 4 kids at the house yesterday, and I bought em all ice cream from one of the trucks that come around here. The one girls' mom rushed out to give me money for it, but I told her it was OK - and now she is over here hanging out and her daughter is my daughter's good friend (they play about 4 hours a day together). She never trusted anyone to watch her little girl, but she lets her come here hours a day now and play (and I have only been here since Tuesday).

It just takes some love and talking to get people together. Instead of bitching about my neighbors not speaking english, I am learning spanish so we can all communicate better.

Love and caring go a long way in this world.

[silverojo]

18. I hope they're equally willing to learn English

in order to be able to talk to you.

There, in a nutshell, is one of those stereotypes that creates tension. Mexicans refusing to learn English.

It's great that you're extending a hand of friendship to your new neighbors. Now if only Latinos would be equally willing to extend their hands in friendship (instead of refusing to learn English and marching to demand rights that they, as citizens, aren't entitled to), they'd find a much more welcoming attitude from their American neighbors.

Hell, when I was a kid, I had lots of Latino friends...until they grew up and started saying that white Europeans should be deported back to Europe because this land belongs to Mexico.

It takes a friend to be a friend...living up to a stereotype creates hatred. That's one big problem with America today. :(

[Hekate]

20. You are going to do FINE!

You already are. :-)

Hekate

[tularetom]

8. Welcome to the San Joaquin Valley

Be sure to visit scenic Pumpkin Center - my dad worked in a gin out there in the 30's when he first came here from OK. I don't know jack shit about it otherwise but I always liked the name - sounds like something out of Beverly Hillbillies.

[fooj]

9. Northern California welcomes you, SS!

There's too much that we DON'T rationally discuss. It takes strength of spirit to stand by truth. I'm hoping that we find a way to unite by learning to respect one another and to understand that there are commonalities that accompany differences.

Truth will set u.s. free.

[Eurobabe]

10. Do you feel like you've escaped the rings of hell?

Ohio that is. Never looked better than in the rear view mirror on 5/27/06 to me!!

[The Straight Story]

12. I did escape it :)

In so many ways.

Feel like I am 'home' now.

I ain't looking back much. When I crossed that Ohio state line I cried - tears of joy!

[Eurobabe]

23. I felt the same when I the PA line, back in sanity!

Blue State for 2 weeks to visit family then out of this clam shack entirely. Don't miss it at all.

[PlanetBev]

13. Welcome to California, Straight Story!

I know you'll love it here. Less humidity, less knuckle-walkers.

[nadinbrzezinski]

14. Welcome to California

as to the questions he asked...

let me see, where do I start?

The Protocols of the Elders of Zion asked the same ahem questions< and myths and Henry Ford's the International Jew has some duzzies in it, Hell I got my mom's copy (know thy enemy) in Spanish when I went visiting because getting it in English is kind of hard any longer... so if you want some of them, you{lll have to give me time to translate from the spanish to English... but some of what your Host asked, is out of it. I can recognize it a mile away.[br />
Some of what that guy was saying has been common grist for many an antisemitic tract for centuries... and a good course in the history of it will teach you this. Father FAnnigan{s work on the subject is a must read, as it covers blood libel and other stuff, going back to... Greece.

I will deal with usury as a common charge since it is truly a self made prophecy

It comes from the middle ages, when good Christians were not allowed to lend money, since usury is a sin. Jews were free of this little problem since they were going to go to Hell anyway... so Jews were allowed to run banks, and then accused of usury... see the circular logic_

Now to your general question... there is quite a bit of disinformation about different groups floating around, yes even here... and at least for me, I can make the distinction when it comes to Christians between Catholics )and all flavors by the way from very liberal to the Opus Dei and all in between=, to Fundamentalists )which come in different flavors, and so on

As to your question after 9.11 any good course on colonialism will give you most of the answers. As to the rest... well been researching the Spanish Sci Fi market, and let me tell you... if you really want to understand it, read Distant Neighboors... it will give you some answers, but it is still common grist. Hell, one short novella I read last week from an Argentinian author had so many logic errors, inspired by the dislike of the US, I could drive every major spaceship from all major sagas and some less known ones line abreast.

Oh and welcome to cali

(corrected for believe or not, English keyboard)

[tularetom]

15. You gotta learn this

I came here lookin for somethin
I couldn't find anywhere else
I'm not tryin to be nobody
Just want a chance to be myself

I spent a thousand miles a thumbin
Yes I've worn blisters on my heels
Tryin to find me somethin better
Here on the streets of Bakersfield

Yes you don't know me but you don't like me
Say you care less how I feel
But how many of you that sit and judge me
Ever walked the streets of Bakersfield

Spent some time in San Francisco
I spent a night there in the can
They threw this drunk man in my jail cell
I took 15 dollars from that man

left him my watch and my old house key
Don't want folks thinkin that I'd steal
Then I thanked him as I was leavin
And I headed out to Bakersfield

Yes you don't know me but you don't like me
Say you care less how I feel
But how many of you that sit and judge me
Ever walked the streets of Bakersfield

"Streets of Bakersfield" - Dwight Yoakam and Buck Owens

[silverojo]

19. Ah, that makes me miss Bakersfield all over again!

Used to live there for a while, but we moved back to Arizona. I miss the nice people of Bakersfield. :)

[CK_John]

16. Don't forget to register to vote in CA. Good luck and enjoy. n/t

[silverojo]

17. No flames coming from me

I agree with you completely. We need to examine the causes of why stereotypes arise in the first place.

One thing I can't stand is when people live up to the stereotypes of their groups. For instance, I'm a woman, and I get really annoyed at sissy women who'll make their husbands kill a bug for them. This is modern society, for heaven's sake--take off your shoe and smash the damned thing yourself, LOL.

On a larger level, I was watching Mind Of Mencia the other night, and was appalled at how many women he spoke to on the street, who said they'd never vote for a woman to become president. Why? One dimbulb said that, because she had no confidence in herself, she had no confidence in another woman to be president.

How the HELL are women supposed to advance in society, with that kind of mentality?

You can go on and on, about every group of people...blacks getting involved in crime (killing each other instead of helping each other), Mexicans coming here illegally to have anchor babies, Asians being excessively hard on their own kids, women being sexist against their own kind (see above)...and on and on. WHY must people do this? Don't they understand that behaving stereotypically helps fuel prejudice which leads to discrimination and even hatred? WHY can't they realize that they're living up to the very stereotypes that hold them down??

Hatred will never end, and minority groups will never, ever achieve true equality unless and until they stop living up to the stereotypes. Yes, it's partly the fault of Republicans (usually white males, but the GOP non-whites and women can be guilty of prejudice, too). But as long as the rest of us behave in such a way as to give people REASON to say, "That's just the way women are," etc., those stereotypes and prejudices will never go away. :(

[rwenos]

21. Welcome! Just another day in Paradise . . .

California, "where people go to be someone else." (James Ellroy wrote that.)

Lake Tahoe. The Hollywood Bowl. The Capitol Park in Sacramento. Mount Lassen. Pink's Hot Dogs on La Cienega. Balboa Park. Palm Canyon Drive. The Sheepherder Restaurant (thought I'd never been to Bakersfield, eh?) Skiing Squaw Valley and Heavenly the same day. The Mendocino coast. City Lights Bookstore in San Francisco. Top Dog on Durant Avenue in Berkeley. Pauley Pavilion. Cannery Row in Monterey. Santa Monica Pier. Davies Sympthony Hall. Frank Fatt's. Musso & Frank Grill. Brandy Ho (Hunan restaurant on Kearney St. in SF.) Dodger-Giant games. Cal-Stanford in Strawberry Canyon. UCLA-USC at the Coliseum. The Hotel Del Coronado. Gualala. The Plough & Stars on Clement. Lawry's House of Prime Rib on La Cienega. Disneyland. Hamburgers from the Ikeda Fruit Stand on I-80 in Auburn. Tadich Grill.

The list is truly endless. Welcome to the Golden State -- you'll never see all of it in a lifetime.

"God is here! In California! Looking for Gold!" (Lee Marvin's character Ben Rumson, in "Paint Your Wagon.")

Just another day in Paradise, Man.

[kineneb]

22. glad you made it, and another "welcome to CA"

be sure to check out the strawberries, they are ripe right now, and should be in your local grocery. Good luck with the unpacking, and take it easy on your back (I speak from experience).

California: land of fruits and nuts. (And other than selected European countries, I wouldn't want to live anywhere else.)

[seabeyond]

24. central calif, not southern. lol. big difference. you are in the MOST

conservative area in all of the most liberal state of the nation. kinda ironically funny. i know. i grew up in bakersfield. it is a good place to live. a couple hours you are at the beaches, a couple hours mountains, or a couple hours disney.

enjoy

[MikeH]

26. Welcome to Southern California, Straight Story

I live in San Diego, which is some distance from you. I moved out here from one of the Chicago suburbs with my folks in the summer of 1970, when I was in college.

I lived in Lancaster for a brief period in the late 1970's, when I was working at my very first full time job, at Edwards Air Force Base (civil service).

I once stopped and had lunch at a Basque restaurant in Bakersfield about 10 years ago when I was driving up to visit a friend in the Santa Cruz area.

[oustemnow]

27. Welcome to CA

I'm guessing from the route you mentioned, you're in Southerm California? Did you take the 20? The drive through NM and Arizona is incredible!

To answer your question, question everything, it's good for the mind. Just keep yourself open to all possible answers, in relation to their plausibility. Hope that didn't come off as too pretentious; I'm a couple of drinks into the afternoon, and feeling a bit, um, philosophical.

[Marr]

28. I really think asking the question and honestly discussing it is the best way to

prevent such group hatreds. It's not perfect, and it can exacerbate problems as well, since people are sometimes more interested in instigating a conflict than having a dialogue. But it's easy to hate people you never see. They become cartoon characters; just embodiments of certain evils.

Putting these issues on the table can be a very positive thing. Just depends on how it's handled, and how serious the parties involved are in making some sort of progress. I personally tend to err on the positive side when evaluating humanity, so I'm inclined to say such frank discussions are a good thing more often than not.