AZ IMMIGRATION LAW- "lawful contact" is a meaningless term with no legal definition

[NJmaverick]

you will see right wingers hiding behind this term claiming it will prevent racial profiling or unconstitutional stops and searches. The reality is the term "lawful contact" means whatever the law enforcement officer wants it to mean.

[pinto]

1. Searched four main on-line legal dictionaries and got no result for "lawful contact" save a

generic definition of "lawful" as meaning "permitted".

:hi:

[NJmaverick]

3. Yeah, I got similar results. One has to think the use of a made up terms

was not accidental. It's a way to deceive the public about the true scope and nature of the law.

[pinto]

5. It could be common legislative language, I guess. But sure seems legally vague.

:hi:

[DJ13]

2. Its so broad it could be used against the state as well

[Ikonoklast]

4. Overly broad, and that's why it will get killed.

Besides the fact that no state has the legal authority under the Constitution to regulate immigration laws.

[paulsby]

6. i've seen this term used in LE training literature

fwiw, since lawful contacts (i have also seen them referred to as "lawful transactions" which is weird) fall under such diverse justifications: terry v. ohio, community caretaking standard, social contact, etc.

it's part of the whole fruit of the poisonous tree thang. if the initial contact is not lawful, then anything that follows will be suppressed.

fwiw, i am against the bill for a # of reasons, but as a practical matter i don't see many ways that a LE agent, especially w/o access to certain federal databases and psychometric data will be able to determine reasonable suspicion of unlawful presence in the country.

an example of the type of stuff i have seen in training literature "while officer johnson's initial contact with the suspect was lawful, once the detention expanded beyond the scope of terry it became a constructive arrest, and since it was not supported by probable cause, the subsequent admissions were suppressible"

etc.

[NJmaverick]

7. It seems to me lawful contact can be passing a person on the street

that is a lawful contact. I guess as long as the police officer doesn't enter a home with out invite or warrant he has made a lawful contact.

[paulsby]

8. well it encompasses the whole range of contacts specific to law enforcement

some involve entry, some involve seizure, and some involve mere presence (social contact).

for example, there are circ's where an officer can enter a home w/o invite or warrant. i had one that was upheld due to community caretaking standard, and others are upheld due to exigency.

an obvious example under exigency (and community caretaking) would be a home that was on fire. an officer need not get a warrant or an invite for occupants. under the 4th it would be reasonable to enter (forcefully even) to see if anybody is inside and needs assistance.

these aren't just hypotheticals. these are cases i dealt with.

[NNN0LHI]

9. If this were just trained law enforcement officers it wouldn't be so bad

But we are going to have liquored up and armed good old boys who are going to feel its their duty to make a "citizens arrest", on any person who in their minds meets their drunk and/or doped up criteria for anyone they think might be an "illegal immigrant."

Imagine Rambo snorting crank and guzzling Mad Dog.

This will not end well.

Don