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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-10 10:10 PM
Original message
First Arizona, now Missouri
Edited on Mon Apr-26-10 10:12 PM by proud2BlibKansan
This legislation has been proposed. Not passed yet.
It shall be unlawful for any person to conceal, harbor, or shelter from detection any illegal alien in any place within the state of Missouri including any building or means of transportation, knowing or in reckless disregard of the fact that the illegal alien has come to, entered, or remained in the United States in violation of law. It shall be unlawful for any illegal alien to transport himself or herself within the state of Missouri.

Full bill text, summary, links to the sponsors bio etc, here.


The bill goes on to say that a violation of this subsection is a felony. So it could be a felony to ride to church with your husband, or to take your neighbor to the store. A bus driver could be guilty of a felony for driving students to school.

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KamaAina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-10 10:10 PM
Response to Original message
1. Replace "illegal alien" with "slave"
and you have the scenario that led to Dred Scott.
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virgogal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-10 10:13 PM
Response to Original message
2. Now will there be a boycott against Missouri?
Edited on Mon Apr-26-10 10:14 PM by virgogal
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-10 10:58 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. Yes
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-10 11:30 PM
Response to Reply #2
19. I wouldn't suggest supporting them
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tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-10 08:10 AM
Response to Reply #2
33. If it passes, there should be.
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proudohioan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-10 05:11 PM
Response to Reply #33
39. Love your logo!!!!
Police???? LOL!
:rofl:
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-10 10:14 PM
Response to Original message
3. let's have rewards for ratting on our neighbors and relatives. we're not such a free nation afterall
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-10 10:15 PM
Response to Original message
4. (facepalm)
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SargeUNN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-10 10:15 PM
Response to Original message
5. Truly sad, guess the fear mongers found their new hate target
although they have had them awhile, now they can replace the muslims, terrorist, and any other group they can find to hate.
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napi21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-10 10:18 PM
Response to Original message
6. As far as I know it's always been illegal to harbor or transport
anyone who is in the country illegally. Looks like Mo. is jealous of all the press Az. is getting.
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William Z. Foster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-10 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #6
45. seriously?
Before we give a person a ride, or have them as a house guest we should have permission from the authorities or face criminal penalties ourselves?

"In the country illegally" is a catch phrase - no criminal act required, rather a person is illegal by "being" - that turns all of us into suspects, and means that all who befriend or offer rides or housing to others must act as police agents or face criminal charges.

If we make it illegal for a person to simply be - "being (insert whatever pretext) illegally" - the only way to put that into practical effect is to force all of us to prove upon demand to law enforcement that we have the "right" - actually the privilege, bestowed upon us by the authorities - to simply be. That is the very essence of a police state.
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ORDagnabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-10 10:57 PM
Response to Original message
7. lots of people are incredibly frustrated about our immigration laws and how they're enforced
and I can tell you here in portland oregon there are large numbers of people who I consider very liberal who want our borders better protected and the illegal immigrants sent home. The ideas behind this is the rise in crime, There would be more jobs for citizens and legal residents and a general sense of fairness.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-10 11:10 PM
Response to Reply #7
14. And them talking points go bac to every immigrant group
now you are right, they should be enforced. So tell me when are you demanding that the EMPLOYERS be fined? That's in the law. Care to ask why that is not enforced?
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ORDagnabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-10 01:14 AM
Response to Reply #14
24. I've been screaming to fricken fine the bastards out of business for years!
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-10 01:17 AM
Response to Reply #24
25. Try to connect dots though
why it has not happened? Remember the Amnesty under Reagan? It included them... a few were fined, but after that... nada...
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William Z. Foster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-10 06:20 PM
Response to Reply #25
44. maybe
While there are employers who take advantage of the vulnerability of immigrants, employers have no way to know they are hiring "illegals," nor would we want them to be doing that work on behalf of law enforcement. Whom should employers investigate? Brown people only? Or should ALL of us need permission from the government to get a job? Dangerous precedent either way. If an employer is abusing employees, that is criminal regardless of the status of the employee involved.

Employers cannot legally apply one set of standards to some, and a different one to others. They must either accept the documentation shown them by employees, or do an exhaustive investigation of all employees, or discriminate against "suspected illegals" based on race.

Do we really want all employers to be de facto agents of law enforcement agencies?
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William Z. Foster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-10 06:40 PM
Response to Reply #7
48. none of those things are true
Immigrants are not causing crime, nor do workers cause job losses - owners do. Jobs create jobs, more workers means more work and more opportunity for all workers. Owners eliminate jobs, not workers. Scabs are a different thing, but immigrants are organizing at a higher rate than non-immigrants.

Divide and conquer used against the working class is an old trick, and racism too often is effective at achieving that.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-10 10:59 PM
Response to Original message
9. Sad to say it but this is American as Apple Pie
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-10 11:05 PM
Response to Original message
10. Yeah, but unlike Arizona, we have a Democratic governor who will veto that shit
Thankfully Jay Nixon is no idiot and keeps a lid on the stupidity that rises to the surface of our Republican controlled legislature.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-10 11:09 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. The point is that this is spreading
and unless this Az law is stopped in it's tracks and FAST... it WILL spread.
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-10 11:13 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. Well, yes, it is spreading,
But it isn't going to spread to Missouri :shrug:

And frankly, other than the court system, how is it going to be stopped? Boycotts, as we all know, rarely work.

I would suggest that we work in all of our states to prevent what happened in Arizona from happening in your state. Insure that you have a sane Democrat at the helm in order to veto this shit. Make sure that such a veto can't be overridden.

Hopefully this will be taken to court and struck down, or that there is legislation on a national level that overrides this shit.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-10 11:17 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. This is a very good echo of US History
and sadly American as Apple Pie

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

And yes it will spread... unless the DOJ stops it on Constitutional grounds. We all know how the DOJ works though.

Oh and as to boycotts... yes they do work... they just take a long time and hurt everybody... but South Africa comes to mind. And if my state does the same, I will be the first one to tell you, beg you, to boycott my state.
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krispos42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-10 01:07 AM
Response to Reply #12
22. Welcome to the wedge issue of the 2010 et al election
Replacing gay marriage.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-10 09:18 AM
Response to Reply #10
34. Yes but can they override the veto?
Do they have the votes?
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-10 06:42 PM
Response to Reply #34
49. No, not unless the Dems in the House fall completely apart.
They might, barely get an override in the Senate, but it would be next to impossible to get an override through the House.
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SeattleGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-10 11:05 PM
Response to Original message
11. Good gawd.
The ugly is really spreading.

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kelly1mm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-10 11:09 PM
Response to Original message
13. The GOP is going to try and ride this issue to victory in 2010
as they realize the teaparty healthcare bru-ha-ha peaked to early. Sadly, it may just work.
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Kablooie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-10 01:01 AM
Response to Reply #13
20. Yes. It's going to sweep the red states. All the repressed racism will once again engorge the south.
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Touchdown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-10 11:30 PM
Response to Original message
17. Well, to be fair, those Arkansans can be kind of odd.
There should be a way to keep them in Arkansas.

;)
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-10 06:00 AM
Response to Reply #17
27. LOL
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Touchdown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-10 11:30 PM
Response to Original message
18. Dupe
Edited on Mon Apr-26-10 11:30 PM by Touchdown
:grr:
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krispos42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-10 01:04 AM
Response to Original message
21. Felonies warrant imprisonment for over a year.
At about $40,000 a year per prisoner. I wonder how many illegal immigrants the state of Mississippi can afford to imprison?

Will the Republicons of the great state of Mississippi support a tax increase and expansion of government to have enough prison housing?
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-10 06:01 AM
Response to Reply #21
28. Missouri, not Mississippi
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krispos42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-10 07:32 AM
Response to Reply #21
30. D'oh!
:dunce: :dunce: :dunce:

Thanks...
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MattBaggins Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-10 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #21
43. Easy solution to that.... Capitalism.... Free Market... Privatize
Let Private companies make for profit jails and put them to work making cheap goods. It's a win-win for everyone.
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Posteritatis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-10 01:07 AM
Response to Original message
23. What's "transport him/herself" mean in this particular legalese?
Obviously they're trying to outlaw being in the state, but does that further penalize moving around within the state?
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-10 06:02 AM
Response to Reply #23
29. Yes I think so
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Posteritatis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-10 06:52 PM
Response to Reply #29
51. And I just confirmed that with a lawyer friend. Ugh. (nt)
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-10 02:50 AM
Response to Original message
26. Swing states?
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Soylent Brice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-10 07:42 AM
Response to Original message
31. what the fuck is wrong with us.
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-10 08:05 AM
Response to Original message
32. YUCK!
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-10 09:20 AM
Response to Original message
35. Arizona cancer will grow to every red state.
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proudohioan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-10 09:28 AM
Response to Original message
36. Shouldn't this bill also include employers who exploit illegal..
immigrants as slave labor as commiting a felony?

IMO, that's the true horror about illegal immigrants; they way they are exploited by some in order to make a huge profit!
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William Z. Foster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-10 06:30 PM
Response to Reply #36
46. that is always criminal
Exploiting or enslaving workers is criminal. It doesn't matter who the employee is or where they are from.

All of us, as workers, are exploited to make a huge profit, and yes that is the true horror.

We should not be fooled into joining in on the calls for police state laws and draconian enforcement to "solve" the supposed "problem" by dressing it up as concern for exploited workers.
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leftyladyfrommo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-10 09:29 AM
Response to Original message
37. Oh, no. Now I have to get all those Illegals out of my crawl space.
Wow!
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madmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-10 09:32 AM
Response to Original message
38. Why does it not mention any where in this "legislation" what would happen if
one is found working for you? What happens if you hire an illegal? These are the people (the employers) who should be arrested and fined! Take away the reason the illegals are coming, doesn't it seems to follow, they will stop coming?
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azmouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-10 05:12 PM
Response to Original message
40. Boycott Missouri
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-10 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #40
41. There is a significant tourism industry in MO
A boycott would definitely hurt.
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azmouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-10 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #41
42. As in Arizona. The boycott will hurt but....
Maybe if AZ had been boycotted before this law got passed it might have changed things for the better here. :shrug:
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-10 06:47 PM
Response to Reply #40
50. Chill out, please
There's no need to get all hot and bothered right now. This bill, if it gets through the legislature, is going to run into a Democrat in the governor's office, and Nixon will veto it. There aren't enough votes in the legislature to override the veto, so the issue is moot.

This is typical politics in Missouri, we have yahoo politicians from Southern Missouri who propose stupid shit, which may or may not make it through the legislature, but it gets vetoed by a Democratic governor.

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chrisa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-10 06:31 PM
Response to Original message
47. Mexican immigrants are the new targets of bigotry.
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underpants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-10 07:00 PM
Response to Original message
52. I think they are just petitioning for stimulus money to build a railroad underground
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Indy Lurker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-10 07:55 PM
Response to Original message
53. Two points
1. If being here illegally is a federal crime, it is very difficult to prevent a state from also making it a state crime.

2. For the Missouri law to be used, the state must show that you "knew" someone was illegal. Which is also hard to do in most cases.

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