Did the Bush administration light a fire under the housing market to cover up the failing economy

[Oregone]

....or was it part of a larger plot to set up conditions for the largest case of fraud known to man?

Ive long thought that the Bush administration's "ownership society" was a movement to resurrect the carcass that was the economy after the tech bubble crashed, 9/11, and NAFTA took a chunk out of the manufacturing base. I thought that the country was in bad shape, so it was a short-sighted attempt to jump start the economy with low interest rates and high risk credit (which covered up many of the problems, thus securing him a second term). I saw this as some quick idiotic fix he did, which created a larger bubble.

Was I wrong?

Was it an action complicit with Wall Street to lure Americans into these high risk loans that the financial leaders were betting against? Was the Bush administration part of some grander plot, hatched far earlier, to scam America and shift more money into the hands of the financial elite?

I guess we will never know. But if so, how far back does it go? How intertwined are these people with government? What plans do they have in the future?

Was it all by design? Was Goldman Sachs shitting with glee a decade back (maybe as far back as the initial deregulation), imagining their future earnings?

I imagine its uncomfortable to think that elected politicians are part of large-scale conspiracies to defraud the lower classes and transfer wealth.


(I thought about this while watching a documentary about Iraq last night, where some interviewed people were claiming there was no plan because naive people thought they would exit Iraq in a month. To the contrary, its possible there was no plan because they wanted to incite an insurgency in order to stay and hand out contracts to the wealthy private military/construction/oil industries. Its almost like all these failures aren't really incompetence, but designed to create larger disasters that rob wealth from the people--yes, there is a book about this)

[Turbineguy]

1. Yes.

The rest just came with it. Unintended consequence.

[LiberalAndProud]

2. He failed to establish one key building block to complete the scam.

Had social security been privatized, the house of cards would not have tumbled yet. It is the one component missing from the plan to fleece the American public of our wealth. They got far, but we should be happy for small favors.

[DJ13]

3. Why do you think Obama ignored Congress's vote and launched

his "deficit commission" anyway?

They arent being convened to suggest slashing the defense budget.

[Demeter]

5. Because of the Boys from Goldman, of Course

who should all be given pink slips and orange jumpsuits 6 months ago.

[LiberalAndProud]

12. Ignored which vote?

I must plead ignorance. Kindly educate me?

[Demeter]

4. I find it hard to believe that W Administration Was That Organized or Directed

I rather think they just turned the greedy psychopaths loose by ignoring all regulatory duties--and this is the result.

And as for Social Security--they were willing to listen to their cronies on Wall St. and Wall St. wanted the last nickel. Having stolen our jobs, our savings, our retirements and our homes, social security was the only asset left to the people that couldn't be just defunded.

[Oregone]

7. Who said they came up with the plan?

Some of the necessary deregulation happened under Clinton. It could be just politicians doing other's bidding

[Demeter]

8. If It Was a Plan, It Would Have Gone Better

This was just license to steal.

[Oregone]

9. Gone better? How? Did you miss the Goldman Sachs emails?

They got exactly what they wanted...more wealth


They were betting that this would fail, while enticing people to join in. It went exactly how they wanted it to (whether there be a larger plan or not)

[Demeter]

11. They Didn't Get Away With It

If they hadn't been so greedy, but stole only as much as they could conceal...now Goldman and the other banksters are toast. Their jobs will disappear, their firms will disappear, some of them will end up in jail, and I suspect there will be clawbacks and punitive damage lawsuits.

there was no thought to the consequences, no Plan B, no escape vehicle, no forethought. That's not a plan. That's just a looting.

[Oregone]

15. "now Goldman and the other banksters are toast"

Thatll be the day. :)

Well, maybe thats the litmus for whether this was mass conspiratorial fraud on all levels or not. Will they throw a scapegoat or two behind bars to pacify the people (but otherwise do exactly what the bankers tell em), or will the politicians truly clean house and change the mess of a system?

We will see.

[blm]

26. except Bush2 thought for sure he'd be followed by Clinton2 or McCain...and that would mean

constant cover for Wall St. and his administration's role in it.

[sendero]

27. I wish I could believe that..

... I don't think there will be any serious consequence for the banksters. We will see.

[LiberalAndProud]

14. "That Organized or Directed"

PNAC, for example, provided direction. It is that Organized. It is that Directed. Very little that happened during Bush's tenure was accidental. Except falling off his bike and choking on pretzels, I believe things happened as they were intended. And yes, deregulation is a key component, as is war profiteering.

[cutlassmama]

25. Sounds about right.

[JDPriestly]

18. They were. Fleecing ordinary Americans was the real focus of their

administration. That was the one thing that mattered to them, the one thing they planned and organized very well. Listen to Bush's State of the Union speeches. He laid his plans out quite clearly.

[Oregone]

19. If you can acknowledge that one politician can be that corrupt and work so cohesively with bankers

Doesn't that make you suspicious of any other?

Bush got elected by means of a widespread media message and propaganda (and perhaps even voting fraud). If private interests wanted him in charge, its not such a leap to think that they had some hand in it happening. And if you believe that, then it isn't such a leap that they could relatively put anyone in charge they wanted, at any time.

Without the repeal of Glass–Steagall, this may not have been able to happen. Without NAFTA taking away a real economy, this may not have been able to happen. Even their setup for the failure depended upon other administrations. How deep could it go?

Its all guessing. Tin-foil shit. But once you believe one administration was complicit in a fraud against the American people, can you ever not be cynical again (at least until an administration comes along and brings real change, punishment, and regulations)

This was the perfect storm to make people rich, and its roots go decades back, spanning Republican and Democratic bridges. Maybe its just all a big fuckn coincidence allowing the vultures to come in and feast. Or maybe, it was a big trap sprang long, long ago.

Anyway you cut it, a lot of rich people are richer, and most of the rest are poorer, all done with the help of the government (whether they were complicit or not)

[Demeter]

6. Technically, Greenspan did it

he destroyed the interest function of capital, by putting the federal rate at zero or near enough. He was giving it away to blow the biggest bubble batch in the history of debt.

Reagan appointed Greenspan.

[JDPriestly]

10. Bush with the help of Greenspan purposely manipulated interest rates

and other incentives to encourage people to take unwise risks and buy houses in order to make the economy look good. He was selling the idea of the "ownership society" (remember that typical Republican Luntz sound-bite?) on the one hand so that he could steal from the taxpayers on the other hand via overly generous contracts to his cronies managing the Iraq War as well as the millionaires to whom he gave big tax breaks.

Here, little guy, I'll give you the illusion of owning a beautiful home for a few years, and while you are distracted with the new toy I'm letting you pretend you own, I'll shovel money into my friends' pockets.

It worked. Many of us saw the scam early on, but unfortunately none of us had any access to the press. And the internet was just getting its legs.

[Demeter]

13. Sometimes I wonder About All Those Builder/ Developers

making gimcrack housing developments all over the country...Bush supporters, I am sure, with illegal immigrant labor and sweetheart financing...

[Oregone]

17. "in order to make the economy look good"

Well thats what I originally thought, but maybe it was mainly to set up risky securities that the financial elite could bet against and win big.

[jotsy]

16. Given the BFEE's proximity to both the S&L episode and the Enron collapse

hard not to want hunt that dog.

Generations of this criminal clan have consistently demonstrated a reckless disregard for the dignity or diversity of the world at large. Efforts now are under way to scrub from history as much ugly truth as can be buried by folks with ties to Bush brothers we know a lot less about. I've never had a doubt they run as dirty as they play and that if they are not exposed, generations will be made to pay.

Wall Street fat cats, Washington bean counters at the fed and the treasury, and the alphabet soup of regulatory cops on the beat, the credit raters and elected officials all had to be looking the wrong way in order for this to have gone down as a result of a failure in competence. What happened here is collusion as solid as any chain made of titanium. The people have been robbed six ways to Sunday and until accountability is sought in a widespread sense, it's hard to be optimistic about our chances as the self governing society I think we were designed to be.

Chaos is what we ask for if we fail to insist the rule of law that is supposed to be EQUALLY applied and enforced.

They're the heavies, not the heavens, I'm calling for a fall.

[LiberalAndProud]

20. Who are the players?

The BFEE ... who are they?

Reagan appointed Greenspan. Clinton reappointed.
Bush appointed Bernanke. Obama reappointed.
Am I wrong?

[Oregone]

21. Maybe winning an election is like winning prom queen

It doesn't fuckn matter. They are doing someone else's work. They are the public faces selling policies to their bases to pacify 50%+ of the people. The players aren't elected or well known

[LiberalAndProud]

22. I believe elections matter.

At least in the little things. But there does seem to be some circumstancial evidence pointing at the shadow.

[Oregone]

23. Maybe those little things are just about making 50%+ distracted and happy each election cycle

Who knows. Im done giving any of these clowns the benefit of the doubt anymore though

[jotsy]

24. That acronym is for what I've seen referred to as the

Bush Family Evil Empire.

More proximity on the appointment of Greenspan with Papa Bush as VP. As for the other points, I'm not prepared to say anyone is wrong about anything unless I've dug to enough truth to be certain of what the facts are. In this case, the chances of that are somewhere between slim and none.

The players? Monopoly is a game, this is a stab at global domination as defined by the uber affluent and if matters continue on unabated, fun will be the last thing any average being knows.

[Mojeoux]

28. These bottom feeders should put people back in their homes. n/t