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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-10 06:56 PM
Original message
Imagine...
<snip>

Europe frequently plays the punching bag role during these moments because there is a perception that the poor Europeans are overtaxed serfs. But a closer look reveals that this is a myth that prevents Americans from understanding the vast shortcomings of our own system.

A few years ago, an American acquaintance of mine who lives in Sweden told me that, quite by chance, he and his Swedish wife were in New York City and ended up sharing a limousine to the theater district with a southern senator and his wife. This senator, a conservative, anti-tax Democrat, asked my acquaintance about Sweden and swaggeringly commented about "all those taxes the Swedes pay."

To which this American replied, "The problem with Americans and their taxes is that we get nothing for them." He then told the senator about the comprehensive services and benefits that Swedes receive.

"If Americans knew what Swedes receive for their taxes, we would probably riot," he told the senator. The rest of the ride to the theater district was unsurprisingly quiet.

The fact is, in return for their taxes, Europeans are receiving a generous support system for families and individuals for which Americans must pay exorbitantly, out-of-pocket, if we are to receive it at all. That includes quality health care for every single person, the average cost of which is about half of what Americans pay, even as various studies show that Europeans achieve healthier results.

That's not all. In return for their taxes, Europeans also receive affordable child care, a decent retirement pension, free or inexpensive university education, job retraining, paid sick leave, paid parental leave, ample vacations, affordable housing, senior care, efficient mass transportation and more.


To get the same level of benefits as Europeans, most Americans fork out a ton of money in out-of-pocket payments, in addition to taxes.

While 47 million Americans don't have any health insurance, many who do are paying escalating premiums and deductibles. Indeed, Anthem Blue Cross announced that its premiums will increase by up to 40 percent.

But all Europeans receive health care in return for a modest amount deducted from their paychecks.

Friends have told me they are saving nearly $100,000 for their children's college education, and most young Americans graduate with tens of thousands of dollars in debt. But European children attend for free, or nearly so (depending on the country).

Child care in the United States costs more than $12,000 annually for a family with two children. In Europe it costs about one-sixth that amount – and the quality is far superior.

Millions of Americans are stuffing as much as possible into their IRAs and 401(k)s because Social Security provides only about half the retirement income needed. The more generous European retirement system provides 75 percent to 85 percent of retirement income, depending on the country. Either way, you pay.

Americans' private spending on old-age care is nearly three times higher per capita than in Europe because Americans must self-finance a significant share of their own senior care. Americans also tend to pay more in local and state taxes, as well as property taxes. Americans also pay hidden taxes, such as $300 billion annually in federal tax breaks to businesses that provide health benefits to their employees.

When you sum up the total balance sheet, it turns out we Americans pay out just as much as Europeans – but receive a lot less for our money.


<snip>

Link: http://www.sacbee.com/2010/04/15/2679568/europe-tax-model-delivers-much.html#storylink=omni_popular

One more time... with feeling.

:shrug:
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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-10 07:54 PM
Response to Original message
1. Kick !!!
:kick:
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bear425 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-10 08:05 PM
Response to Original message
2. I wish I could rec this more than once.
well, I rec'd it and kicked it, at least. TY for posting.
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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-10 08:09 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Anytime Bear... And Thank You !!!
:hi:
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Taitertots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-10 08:30 PM
Response to Original message
4. The myth that tax increases cause production decreases exists in America
Especially the myth that tax increases on the wealthy will decrease production. The effects of taxation decrease production less than the effects of increased government spending boast production.

I've yet to hear a coherent answer as to why we don't adopt policies that are demonstrably better. We pay more and get less.
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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-10 08:35 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. I've Said For Years... "We Pay Just Enough Taxes To Piss Us Off!"
At least the Europeans see something Tangible everyday for their deductions.

:shrug:

:hi:
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Taitertots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-10 08:44 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. I'm pissed they fritter away the taxes and claim anything good is socialism
Giving billions in super low interest loans to banks. Thats what we do.
Offer those billions in super low interest loans to debt riddled people. Thats socialism

Giving billions to health insurance corporations. Thats what we do.
Spend billions and have universal health coverage. Thats socialism.

Spend trillions on pointless wars. Thats what we do.
Spend trillions on education, ending poverty, stopping pollution, or energy independence. Thats socialism.
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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-10 09:07 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Great Points All !!!
:applause:
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MindandSoul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-10 08:32 PM
Response to Original message
5. Absolutely! It's not how much you are taxed, it's how much you get from your tax money!
And it's not just Sweden! I lived in Belgium, France, and England. I also visited extensively for many years in Portugal and in Italy. . .

The quality of life is far superior to anything we get here because of the "safety net" provided by higher taxes. . . and Europeans enjoy much longer vacations which, in several countries at least, are DOUBLE paid. . .so pretty close to everyone can afford to go away for vacations, as their basic pay covers their regular expenses, and their "double" or "vacation" pay covers the additional expenses of going away on vacation!

So. . .maybe the "productivity" is not as high. . .but it's because we are comparing apple and oranges. . .we are not comparing prductivity of a 40 hour week, 50 weeks a year. . .but a 32 hour week, 46 to 48 weeks a year!!!

Why do you think Europeans travel abroad so much more than Americans??? It's NOT because they love America so much, but because they CAN AFFORD IT!
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texastoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-10 09:09 PM
Response to Original message
9. K&R n/t
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-10 09:15 PM
Response to Original message
10. K & R
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