Vegan parents starve son to death

[Matariki]

> A jury in Atlanta found the parents of a baby fed only a vegan diet, guilty of malice murder.

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/13245543/detail.html

[johnnie]

1. I think the real headline for the story should be

Asshole parents murder their infant.

[youngdem]

2. .

[blondeatlast]

106. Exactly. nt

[aikoaiko]

3. This will make for a nasty thread.

Poor kid.

My little boy had a difficult time feeding, but we brought him to the hospital immediately. Now he's doing fine.

[Matariki]

22. a little like throwing a steak in a tiger cage isn't it?

i'm so bad.

[SexyLiberal]

4. Being vegan was nothing but fast defense for these dumbasses.

Why wasn't she breastfeeding the baby?

Soy milk is not soy formula!

I think they just came up with this vegan excuse to get their asses out of a murder charge.

[debbierlus]

21. Agreed.

[Ghost in the Machine]

29. She *couldn't* breast feed. Breasts are MEAT!

:hi: & welcome to DU

[LittleClarkie]

81. Not defending, but vegan means no milk or dairy as well

Hence.

But what's wrong with soy formula?

I agree with others. Something's not right here.

[yewberry]

85. Breast milk is vegan, though.

But, yeah, even if there was a problem breastfeeding, why not actually go with formula?

[blondeatlast]

107. Yup. Welcome to DU, btw.

:toast:

[DURHAM D]

5. Something is not right in this story.

I know several babies (some now in their late 50s) that were given only soy milk and juice.

[AlienGirl]

9. They were probably fed soy formula, not soy milk

Soy infant formula, like cow-milk infant formula, has a lot of added-in vitamins, fats, and sugars to make it more closely match the composition of human breastmilk. Soy milk (the kind that tastes good on cereal to grown-ups) is just soybeans and water, and sometimes calcium and flavorings.

Tucker

[sandnsea]

13. I wonder if the article got it right

They seem to imply that milk and juice makes the baby a vegan, which is ridiculous. Thats what babies eat, most aren't even on juice yet. So I wonder if they got the soy milk right, and maybe it was soy formula. There's got to be a reason this baby wasn't taking it's nourishment and that's the problem. Unless they just didn't have enough money to feed the baby, but I can't understand why she didn't get WIC or something. Makes no sense all the way around.

[AlienGirl]

15. If the parents fed the baby soy *milk* (like Edensoy), the baby could have starved on that

Edensoy and other soy *milks* are not nutritious enough to be infant *formula*, and a baby could starve to death on them; the baby could also starve to death homogenized cow's milk. Babies need either their mom's milk, or specially created infant formulas.

Tucker

[sandnsea]

17. I have 4 kids

Yes I realize. That's why I wondered whether the article is mixing up soy milk with soy formula because it doesn't make sense that they wouldn't use WIC and get the actual formula.

[Richard D]

26. And they so so right on the label

[StarryNite]

14. That's correct

A lot of babies can't drink non soy formula do to allergic reactions and they do better on soy formula.

[pinto]

6. Seems the point here was not what, but how *little* the infant was fed.

Poor choice of a headline by WSBTV...

[xultar]

8. Exactly. Plenty of vegan babies thrive.

[blondeatlast]

108. Oh, that headline is no accident, I suspect. nt

[dave_p]

7. It wasn't the veganism

"Prosecutors claimed the baby suffered a prolonged and painful death, not because of what he was fed, but because he was fed too little".

I'm puzzled that breast-milk might be considered inappropriate unless there are health complications, but vegan infant diet alternatives aren't alleged to be harmful provided they contain enough calcium, vitamin B12, vitamin D and protein.

[sandnsea]

10. 6 weeks, 3.5 pounds

Was this baby sent home from the hospital too soon? Did they have medical assistance to take him to the doctor when he started losing weight? Did they not understand how much infant weight loss was too much?

My grandson had a terrible time with nursing when he first came home. He had terrible gas and is still lactose intolerant. We finally put him on soy formula and he improved dramatically. He weighed over 9 lbs though, so even when he lost a little weight, it wasn't that concerning.

The diet of a 6 week old infant has nothing to do with the parents being vegans.

[AlienGirl]

12. There is obviously a lot being lost in the sensationalism of "ZOMG!1 Vegan parents!!11!"

[flamingyouth]

18. In the other article I read, it said he was born at home.

He apparently never saw a doctor. The mind just reels here. I cannot understand how parents could do this.

[AlienGirl]

23. I am learning how tragically not-rare this is.

Four-year-olds who've never been touched and weigh 16 lbs and wear diapers because no one taught them to walk or talk or use the potty. Babies who eventually just stop crying altogether and lie there in the "strap-holder pose" waiting...for....nobody. School-age children that no one ever sees, because they are living in dog kennels inside someone's house. The Dollar children. Rilya Wilson. And so on and so on.

:cry:

Tucker

http://www.sptimes.com/2005/02/10/Citrus/Dollar_children_revie.shtml

[sandnsea]

32. Have a baby at home?

People have babies at home, usually with a midwife, but at home all the same. I don't know that every one of those babies sees a doctor right away, if the parent thinks they're okay. I can see how this could happen without malice. I don't know that life in prison is appropriate if this truly was an accident, even though it was so easily preventable.

[flamingyouth]

36. I wasn't commenting on the home birth.

That's fine. But you'd think they'd seek medical attention when he began to waste away to three pounds. :cry:

[sandnsea]

40. I wish I knew the birth rate

I'm wondering if they didn't read somewhere that babies lose weight in the first few weeks. If it was a small baby to start with, 5 lbs or so, and they read that babies lose a pound or two - well I can how one bad decision compounded the next.

I can also see that they may well have just been irresponsible idiots. I'd just hate to think they were going to spend the rest of their lives in jail if they sincerely thought they were doing the right things.

[likesmountains 52]

42. Normal, healthy babies can lose up to about 10% of their body weight..

in the first 10 days or so...but no 5# baby should weigh 3 lbs at 6 weeks...honestly even the most simple parents should have noticed this...

[sandnsea]

44. You would think

I'm just trying to figure out what went wrong because it certainly isn't vegetarianism. Vegetarianism doesn't turn people stupid and that's what you'd have to be to watch a baby waste away like that. Very very sad.

[likesmountains 52]

52. It's not the vegan diet...it's either real bad or real dumb parents

[gollygee]

112. By 6 weeks they should have gained that back and then some though

yeah - any parent at all would have had to notice this.

[sandnsea]

114. If they didn't know?

Obviously there's a whole lot of people who have never dealt with a baby who had difficulty eating and digesting food. It's not so cut and dry when you do, and doctors aren't even always helpful anyway. I took my newborn into emergency just 2 days before he nearly died from a congential heart defect. The doctor at birth didn't catch it and that was back in the days of 5 days in the hospital. The ER tech didn't catch it. Hell the nurse that saw the baby, just 20 minutes before the doctor, didn't even notice the child was nearly in shock and close to death. And this was an 8 lb baby. People really just make an awful lot of presumptions without knowing how things happen in real life.

[gollygee]

122. He was 3-1/2 pounds

in another thread a poster said her guinea pig weighs 4 pounds, by comparison. The baby would have been crying all the time because he was hungry too. Certainly there are things that catch parents by surprise, but watching a 6-week-old baby waste away to 3-1/2 pounds would be obvious to anyone.

[sandnsea]

124. If it was 5 lbs to start?

My grandson cried all the time too - until we put him ON soy formula because he couldn't digest the breast milk.

We. Don't. Know.

Because NOBODY is asking the questions. I've contacted all the media that wrote the vegan story - and they don't care either.

I just want to know WHY this prosecutor believes these two sane normal rational people just laid around and let a baby die. It makes no sense. HE doesn't believe it was due to veganism, he prosecuted them the way he did because he believed they just neglected the child until it died. Well people just don't do that outside of other circumstances, drugs, retardation, mental illness, poverty, something. I don't understand why nobody cares in case we can prevent some other baby from dieing.

[SexyLiberal]

19. The baby wasn't born in a hospital and NEVER saw a doctor til after death.

I looked up more on this story.


----
"Fulton prosecutor Chuck Boring said the verdict isn't a condemnation of veganism, a strict form of vegetarianism that doesn't allow the consumption or use of animal products. Instead, jurors believed prosecutors' assertions that the couple intentionally neglected and underfed the child and then tried to use the lifestyle as a shield."
-----
"The vegan diet is fine," Boring said after the verdict in the Georgia case. "These parents lied about what they fed him. He just was not fed enough."
-----
The infant was born in the bathtub of a Buckhead apartment but never taken to a doctor while alive. He was dead when his parents took him to Piedmont Hospital, across the street from their apartment, April 25, 2004. At six weeks old he weighed just 3 1/2 pounds and was so emaciated, doctors could count his bones through his skin.

http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/atlanta/stories/2007/05/02/0503metvegan.html

[Warpy]

78. Small red flag

If he was born in a bathtub and never taken to see a doctor (even with a hospital across the street!), how did they know his birth weight?

Years ago, there was a book for vegetarian infant and child care that had directions for homemade formula that had a misprint in the amount of potassium, an amount that would kill an infant or toddler. There's always a remote possibility the parents got hold of a pamphlet with equally bad advice.

There are a few holes in the story the prosecutors are telling, though. The cut to the chase in most of these cases is intentional starvation, although that isn't the case in a few instances. Infants who refuse food and lose weight are called failure to thrive babies and there is generally an underlying physical or neurological problem.

The real problem is that they didn't cross the street and get the kid checked out.

[sandnsea]

89. Well there's a doh moment

It is likely they didn't know his birth weight, doh. I wonder if there was a birth certificate even.

It is too bad they didn't take the baby to the hospital - except when they recognized real illness, they did go to the hospital, so it doesn't seem like they were intentionally ignoring the child until it died.

[yardwork]

123. ah, these people are liars

The article goes on to state that the mother claims to have breast-fed the infant and given him soy formula as well as soy milk. Personally, I think she fed him nothing. He died within weeks. Even if she had fed him the wrong things or slightly too little, he'd still be alive. Maybe in bad shape, but still alive.

To be dead in six weeks, they had to have starved him. And the grandmothers' contentions that he smiled and never cried are lies, too. He had to have cried a lot, until he was too weak to cry any more.

Being vegan had nothing to do with this. These people starved their baby and they deserve to go to jail.

Oh, and welcome to DU! Thank you for printing the article.

[sandnsea]

125. Why would they do that?

Why would they just sit around and let their child starve to death. Please explain that.

[aikoaiko]

41. I think 3.5 was the baby's weight when it died, it could have weighed more at birth.

[sandnsea]

45. I'm sure it did

I wish I knew how much weight it lost, whether it was a low birth rate to start and things just got worse from there. Just tragic.

[IChing]

11. Headline brought to you by the Beef industry

small babies can't ingest meat.

What a bunch of crap, they starved the baby.

[Canuckistanian]

46. There's the story in a nutshell

Animal protein (or lack of it) never killed anyone.

[slackmaster]

16. There's only one appropriate response to this subject line

:popcorn:

[debbierlus]

20. Breast milk?

Perfectly vegan way to feed a human infant, & a healthy vegan mom can provide a perfect diet for their child. This is just SICK.

[SexyLiberal]

24. Sensational headline to make liberals and vegans look like murderers.

period.

[Matariki]

27. actually, I just think the parents were stupid and ill informed

and that some people will hold on to their cherished ideologies to the bitter end, even in the face of glaring evidence that the way they're doing things isn't working.

a lesson in this for all of us.

[IChing]

33. Cherished ideologies? What the hell are you talking about?

They lied.

[Matariki]

39. whatever kept them from feeding their kid formula

You think they're lying and the vegan thing is just their line of defense? Very possible, but there's no way to know - only speculate.

However, I suspect it's more likely that they had some extreme beliefs which included not seeing doctors or going to hospitals as well as their diet. That's what i meant by 'cherished ideologies' that weren't working. By 'not working' I mean dead baby.

[Crandor]

30. Where are liberals mentioned? nt

[mainer]

25. I'm a carnivore. And my soy-fed babies did great.

This death had nothing to do with the parents being vegan. They were just neglectful, stupid parents. I might as well have been vegan, as I fed my babies soy formula (because I just couldn't make enough breast milk) and they both turned into happy, healthy kids. The only reason I used soy was because lactose intolerance runs in our family. Soy formula is a complete diet.

[Beaverhausen]

28. I'm guessing they had no health insurance, therefore no doctor did any follow-up

Such a sad story.

[AlienGirl]

31. They feared germs at doctors' offices and hospitals, so they never took the baby to the doctor...

[Beaverhausen]

34. Oh my...this is sounding more and more like a recent episode of House

where parents did almost the same thing.

[sandnsea]

35. Where was that info?

I missed that.

[AlienGirl]

37. In another article (I think it was the one linked in the Lounge).

[Madspirit]

38. Absurdity

Gee...all the vegan kids I know are really healthy and don't even have allergies. Maybe it wasn't really the vegan part. Maybe it was the misapplication or the idiot parents. Duh....jeez.
Lee

[bobbolink]

43. When people think breast milk is "wrong" because it's not "Vegan",

then WE, as a society are grossly fucked up!!!

This is so wrong on so many levels.

Starving a child for philosophical idealism is just ... well, fucked up.

[Colobo]

47. Yes indeed.

[Eric J in MN]

48. Breast milk is vegan. Any vegan will tell you that.

I don't know why the mother didn't breastfeed.

Visit www.vegsource.com if you don't want to take my word that breast milk is vegan.

[bobbolink]

49. I have no reason to doubt you. Although, it's not the point.

When people are such "purists" that they do shit like this, I have NO patience, and NO tolerance.

That kid was nothing to them... they are so up in their heads they couldn't have been good parents, because they could be in tune with their child.

I'm so sick of all this shit!

[Eric J in MN]

50. Lots of mothers don't breastfeed. I don't know why this baby's mother didn't.

I don't know that being "purists" had anything to do with it.

[bobbolink]

51. When people insist of "vegan" for infants, that's PURIST. And NUTZ!

As I said, they're so far up in their heads that they weren't paying attention to their child.

[Eric J in MN]

53. It isn't nuts to raise one's child as a vegan.

These parents apparently gave so little soy formula to their baby that the baby died, and that is the problem.

If they had been feeding the baby with a dairy formula and gave so little that the baby died, that would have been similar.

[bobbolink]

56. That's *YOUR* opinion. I still say it's NUTZ. When philosophical

trumps common sense and being in tune with your child, it's NUTZ.

[slowry]

63. I guess Buddhists are all NUTZ!

Why is it common sense that babies die without meat or other animal products? Please rethink this :P.

edit: I don't blame you for the initial reaction, but just please calm down. lol!

[bobbolink]

65. Ever heard of evolution? Human bodies are made for certain foods.

What a concept!

Yes, children are much more important to me than some philosophy. If that bugs you, then don't read my posts.

It's like people insisting that their cats be vegetarian. People like that obviously don't like nature.... they want to be god and direct how they think things should be.

I thought Buddhists were into accepting what is, rather than trying to reorder things.

Oh, and when have you ever seen that telling someone to "calm down" was helpful?

All control issues, though....

[Eric J in MN]

73. If you want to go by evolution, then the baby should get breastmilk...

...and you should object to both dairy formula and soy formula for babies.

[bobbolink]

95. Obviously that's the best! That's finally been agreed on by "experts"

But forcing an unnatural diet on babies and small children is NUTZ.

Yet, we laugh at the RW for their ideology.

:rofl:

They think they're reasonable, too.

:rofl:

[slowry]

104. Breast milk is vegan.

How many times does it need to be said? And why is Veganism unnatural? Plenty of people have done fine without eating animal products. There was a time when we ate meat raw; is fire unnatural?

We've changed many of our habits over time.

[Eric J in MN]

105. Are hot dogs natural?

Are you going to condemn parents who give small children hot dogs for feeding them an unnatural diet?

[slowry]

87. Yes, I've heard of evolution.

I've also heard of essential amino acids. Nutrition is a science and there's no reason to suggest this child died from a lack of meat or formula made from cow's milk, any more than he died from a lack of soy formula or breast milk.

This is not about Veganism. Get your facts straight before you play the science card (hint: facts are important in science :))!

[sandnsea]

55. milk and juice for a 6 week old baby

That's normal. Milk alone for a 6 week old baby is normal.

This had nothing to do with vegan. I can't understand why that's the story. Something else happened with this baby and I wish I knew what the heck it was.

[likesmountains 52]

66. well, my guess would be that the baby did not get enough nutrients or volume and became

lethargic when his electrolytes got out of whack...then he began to not wake up crying for a feeding and the situation just got worse and worse...but honestly any parent who did not notice that degree of weight loss really was negligent..

[NickB79]

96. Mother's milk is normal, not soy milk

Cow milk isn't the equivalent of mother's milk, either. A child fed on soy milk and juice, or cow milk and juice, will die of starvation. They need either breast milk or milk formula. Formula is far, far more nutritious than straight milk.

[sandnsea]

97. Why didn't they have soy formula?

That's the question. WIC will provide it. What really went wrong because they did not mean to kill this child.

[NickB79]

100. Agreed, there was something very wrong with the way they thought

They should have been able to read on the soy milk carton that soy milk isn't a substitute for baby formula. They should have recognized their baby was actually starving as he lost weight, and they should have taken him across the street to the hospital. Them being vegans is a minor part of this story, as IMO the parents have some serious mental issues independent of their being vegans.

[sandnsea]

102. It bothers me that the media doesn't care

This little baby died and it seems to me the local media owes him the truth of his death. That's justice. I've written them, they don't care. They reported the court case and are done with it.

[Critters2]

98. A 6 week old baby should be getting nothing but breast milk

Not soy milk, not cow's milk, not apple juice. If breast feeding was not an option--and since they hadn't been to a doctor, there's no reason to think it wasn't--soy formula would have been the right choice. But a child this young shouldn't be getting juice or anything else besides formula or mother's milk.

The child starved to death, for lack of nutrition. But nothing to do with veganism. Vegans breast feed--like all reasonable mothers.

[sandnsea]

101. Breast feeding is not a religion either

It doesn't work for everybody and maybe if these people had known good alternatives, this wouldn't have happened.

You do not have to breast feed to be a reasonable mother - and I've known plenty of really rotten mothers who breast feed.

[Critters2]

111. These people might have known good alternatives,

if they had TAKEN THE KID TO A DOCTOR, as I pointed out in the post to which you were responding. You DO have to get your child medical care to be a reasonable mother, whether you choose to breastfeed or not. I've known good and bad mothers as well. But I don't think I've ever known any mother whose 6 week old infant had never been to a physician.

[sandnsea]

113. It's called a 6 week check-up

A hospital stay is often no more than 24 hours. I have no idea what kind of attention moms get in crowded inner city hospitals anyway, not that I know this was the case for the hospital in question. My daughter had to schedule a visit to the pediatrician AFTER she was released. The pediatrician would not agree to see the baby until the OB released him. If she hadn't scheduled a circumcision, I don't know that the baby would have been seen before the six weeks. Could the parents even FIND a doctor to see the baby, if they didn't have money or insurance. Things are way different now. We do not know what happened and nobody really cares. Easier to just believe it's cruel and inhuman parents than to wonder what contributed to the tragic choices they made.

[Critters2]

115. WIC makes physician care available to those unable to

pay for a doctor's care. Why are you defending people who starved their baby to death? There's no excuse for an infant to have received NO CARE from conception to the age of 6 weeks. No excuse whatsoever.

[sandnsea]

That's what I already asked

Why didn't they have WIC? What happened that these people completely fell through the cracks? Why is nobody asking these questions? Were they mentally ill or mentally retarded? I would think if it was drugs, the prosecutor would have said so. All the prosecutor said was that they just up and decided not to feed their child. That's it. That's the case. It's ridiculous. There has to be something more to it than that. A baby is dead and he deserves to have the truth of his death told.

[yewberry]

57. They weren't "purists," they were lunatics.

They starved their baby to death.

Vegans know that breast milk is vegan. Vegans know that soymilk and apple juice isn't adequate nutrition for a baby.

Lunatics don't. These people are murderous lunatics.

[sandnsea]

60. soy formula is plenty for babies

Did they not know the difference between soy formula and milk. We don't know because the media chose to rant about veganism.

[yewberry]

64. Soy formula is.

And soymilk says directly on the label that it is not to be used as formula.

It's strange that so many people see this as some kind of problem with veganism and not a problem with the parents who never took their baby to a doctor and let him starve to death in front of them.

[sandnsea]

69. And we don't know why that happened

Because every newspaper chose to rant about veganism. That's what makes me mad. You can get free formula from WIC. Why didn't they. If they weren't giving the baby enough food, then why there too. I have a hard time believing a baby would die if it were getting ample apple juice and even soy milk. The articles seem to indicate it was mostly a lack of food. And we don't know why. Grr.

[Critters2]

119. A baby would certainly die getting only apple juice and soymilk.

inadequate fat, inadequate protein, inadequate vitamins and minerals. Not to mention the immunities carried in breast milk.

These people starved their baby to death. Period.

[sandnsea]

120. Why didn't they have WIC?

Did they KNOW about soy formula? Why did they make this choice? Two otherwise normal people DO NOT just sit back and starve their child. There is a reason this happened and we don't know what it is yet.

Why do you choose to dismiss it all with "people are monsters", instead of wanting to know the entirety of the circumstances that led to a child dying?

[Critters2]

117. EVERY carton of soy milk I've ever seen says,

in so many words, "NOT TO BE USED AS INFANT FORMULA". I'm reading those words on an individual carton of chocolate Silk as I type.

So now are they also illiterate?

[bobbolink]

62. !! You're right...!!

:rofl:

[Dorian Gray]

84. Exactly Tofunut!

I'm sure there are plenty of Vegan parents out there who feed their babies a vegan diet while not allowing them to starve to death. Unless these parents were 12, there is no excuse for their negligence.

[LeftyMom]

71. What these people were doing had nothing to do with any vegan nutrition advice I've ever seen

They were making shit up as they went along apparently, because there's nobody out there advising giving vegan infants any diet that isn't centered on human milk for the first year.

[Matariki]

58. I found a longer article that says the woman claimed she also breast fed

in addition to the soy milk and apple juice. Her lawyer said he thought the apple juice had acted as a diuretic and prevented the baby from getting needed nutrition.

My reaction to the story was similar to yours Bobbolink - that it seemed to be about people who were so stuck in their ideology that they couldn't see their kid was in danger. There are plenty of people who do this with other ideologies, like those people who won't take their kids to the doctor because they think god should heal them. It's irresponsible.

And for the record, I know people who have raised their children as vegans from day one, and the kids are fine. So I don't think it was a blanket problem with veganism, but how these people were doing it coupled with their ignorance.

[bobbolink]

68. "Stuck in their ideology" -- good way to phrase it.

We have plenty of children in this world--people shouldn't have kids if they can't put the kids FIRST.

I'm just not into forcing veganism on people to young to make their own choices!!

[Matariki]

74. Here's another case of ideologues killing their kids

http://www.second-opinions.co.uk/miami_death.html


I do agree that the problem isn't the vegan diet per se. But a vegan diet, especially for young children takes more knowledge and effort to get all needed nutrients than an omnivorous diet. To me that illustrates that it's NOT the most natural diet for humans, in spite of vegan's arguments to that effect. I can understand someone's ethical decision to be a vegan, just not the nutritional argument for it.

[bobbolink]

94. You're right... it's not "natural". When people cant' accept their own

humanity, then it's time to either reassess or take a pledge, at least, to not have kids.

Adults own decisions are up to them, but when kids are brought (dragged) into it, that's a whole different thing.

I have problems with the "ethical" part that you accept, because I've had so many people lay it on me, and get really critical, demanding and controlling about it. That tends to turn people off. :)

As for the rest, I've never heard either vegetarians or vegans answer to the peaceful people throughout history who most definitely WEREN'T vegetarian. There's NO connection between vegetarian and peace.

Some of the most peaceful people on the planet are Inuits, and their natural and traditional diet is almost completely devoid of plants!!!

The time comes to think it all through without the biases.

Thanks for the article... I'll take a look at it....

:hi:

[Matariki]

103. Ethics are best when they are a personal choice applied only to oneself

I have no problem with that. That said, I have met more loudly self righteous vegans than I've cared to. I alway put it down to a prolonged rebelling against their parent phase :evilgrin:

[flvegan]

61. Where exactly, and be very specific, did you see that in relation to this story?

Because otherwise, your post is grossly fucked up.

[MrSlayer]

54. Poor kid.

This is as bad as those religious nuts who refuse to take their children to doctors when they are sick.

[sandnsea]

59. Did you read the thread?

I'm curious as to how you could make that statement after the thread has clearly shown veganism had nothing to do with this baby's death.

[depakid]

77. People get their reasoning short-circuited by things

like Veganism and guns.

What? take away my animal products?

[etherealtruth]

118. Of course it didn't

A more appropriate headline would have been IDIOT parents...

[ConsAreLiars]

67. In these "debates" people seem to forget that most of India is vegan.

Whatever neglect was involved in this tragic death has nothing to do with the adequacy of a vegan diet in general, despite the attempt of the reporter and some here to make that false claim.

[Matariki]

70. I really don't think that is correct.

That MOST of India is VEGAN. Can you back that up with a link. I will look for statistics as well.

[ConsAreLiars]

79. Sorry for the inaccurate phrasing. There is a wide range of diets among

Hindus, and strict veganism is not a majority even among Hindus. I forgot that "vegan" is a narrower term than I what I meant. Still, lots of communities practice very strict dietary rules in their goal of taking no life. Fortunately, others have made the point already, that healthy/unhealthy has little to do with the vegan/omnivore dietary axis.

[Matariki]

83. As I understand, Hinduism doesn't prohibit eating meat (except beef.)

"Beef is forbidden, as cow is a holy animal for all Hindus. But dairy products like milk, butter and yogurt are said to increase spiritual purity.

Food habits also depend on the person's caste (or social standing) for example Brahmins are not permitted to eat non vegetarian but people from the rest of the Varnas can eat meat (excluding beef)"

http://hinduism.ygoy.com/hindu-culture/index.php

Also, the statistics for India are 30-40% vegetarian. http://www.hinduonnet.com/2006/08/14/stories/2006081403771200.htm

[ConsAreLiars]

93. Thanks for the information.

I was mistaken.

[LeftyMom]

75. Indian vegans are rare. Indian Lacto-vegetarians are common and Indian food is easily adapted

but there's usually ghee (clarified butter) in damn near everything.

[IChing]

76. I agree it is ill informed and a blatant generalization equating Vegan

to the fault of parents, might as well as blame it on ignorance

Good thing the headline didn't say
'Black Vegan parents starve their baby to death' that would have started something else.

They bought the headline,
hook, line and sinker.

[blondeatlast]

109. Not so. My husband was raised strictly Hindu and eats milk, eggs, and of course, ghee.

As do the vast majority of Hindus.

[depakid]

72. Looks like it didn't have anything to do with being Vegan at all

Typical MSM. Is it my imagination, or has the corporate media gotten more deceptive and misleading by many magnitudes over the past year or so?

"Prosecutors claimed the baby suffered a prolonged and painful death, not because of what he was fed, but because he was fed too little and that his nutritional needs were deliberately ignored by his parents.

Prosecutors said the couple slowly starved the baby on a diet of soy milk and juice in such small quantities that he died of complications from malnourishment. The kitchen cupboards in the parents’ apartment were empty at the time"

[DemBones DemBones]

80. Exactly. The media's stupidity strikes again.

I do not think it's your imagination that the media has grown more deceptive and misleading over the past year or so. By several magnitudes, at least.

I'm inclined to think the couple did not intend for the baby to be harmed but were just ignorant. Maybe they smoked more plants than they ate, who knows? The empty kitchen cupboards are certainly troubling and make me wonder how healthy they were.

Veganism is a healthy choice for humans, including infants, but it has to be done right.

[Zhade]

91. Your slam against people who smoke marijuana is as bad as the bullshit headline.

Come on. Don't do that.

[DemBones DemBones]

92. Come on, you know some people overdo their weed or booze or meth

or whatever. I said weed because it's a vegan substance. Sorry you didn't get the joke.

[WindRavenX]

116. LOL "weed or booze or meth"

Weed does not belong with the other two.

Come on.

[NickB79]

99. He died in six weeks instead of six months

Even if they fed the child the proper amount of food he would have died, as they were feeding him soy MILK instead of soy FORMULA. Soy milk is too low in nutrition to properly support a growing baby. By feeding him very little soy milk, they only hastened an inevitable death if they continued to feed him in the manner they had been.

You're right, though, since it doesn't have anything to do with being vegan. There are vegan, soy milk FORMULAS out there that would have provided proper nutrition for this baby. However, the parents appear to have the perfect mix of being absolute morons, unable to read the side of a soy milk carton, and paranoid of the hospital right across the street from where they lived. Very, very sad for that little boy.

[LittleClarkie]

82. Morning radio picked this story up just so they could talk about insane liberals

I don't think they even thought about how the veganism was irrelevant.

[Matariki]

86. vegan = liberal now? oy.

[bullwinkle428]

88. Ugh - I guess I can look forward to the Freeper morning zoo DJ bringing

this up on the show tomorrow morning...

[nam78_two]

90. As many on the thread have pointed out, this seems to be less about veganism

and more about horrific parenting. Poor kid...3.5 lbs -I think my cat weighs more than that :-/.

But, I guess the vegans thing makes for a flashier title :eyes:. Dear ol' MSM, where would we be without you?

[Critters2]

121. My cat weighs five time that!!

How could they NOT have seen the problem?!

[Odin2005]

110. This kid NEVER saw a doctor?

Sounds like the parents are a bunch of kooky wackos who should of never had a kid in the first place. Assholes.