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Glenn Greenwald: Olbermann on Obama's Assassination Program

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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-09-10 09:18 AM
Original message
Glenn Greenwald: Olbermann on Obama's Assassination Program
Olbermann on Obama's Assassination Program
by Glenn Greenwald

There are many legitimate criticisms voiced about Keith Olbermann, but he deserves substantial credit for his coverage night of a story that is as self-evidently significant as it is under-covered: Barack Obama's assassination program aimed at American citizens. He not only led off his show with this story, but devoted the first two segments to it, and made many of the key observations and asked virtually all of the right questions. The videos of those two segments, worth watching, are below.

What's most striking to me about all of this is that -- as I noted yesterday (and as Olbermann stressed) -- George Bush's decision merely to eavesdrop on American citizens without oversight, or to detain without due process Americans such as Jose Padilla and Yaser Hamdi, provoked years of vehement, vocal and intense complaints from Democrats and progressives. All of that was disparaged as Bush claiming the powers of a King, a vicious attack on the Constitution, a violation of Our Values, the trampling on the Rule of Law. Yet here you have Barack Obama not merely eavesdropping on or detaining Americans without oversight, but ordering them killed with no oversight and no due process of any kind. And the reaction among leading Democrats and progressives is largely non-existent, which is why Olbermann's extensive coverage of it is important. Just imagine what the reaction would have been among progressive editorial pages, liberal opinion-makers and Democratic politicians if this story had been about George Bush and Dick Cheney targeting American citizens for due-process-free and oversight-less CIA assassinations.

Republicans are not going to object to any of this. With rare exception, they believe in unlimited executive authority and denial of due process. They see Obama's adoption of the core Bush/Cheney approach as a vindication of what they did for eight years (and also see it, not unreasonably, as proof that progressive complaints about Bush's "shredding of the Constitution" were not genuine but rather opportunistic, cynical and motivated by desire for partisan gain). As a result, even the most Obama-hating right-wing extremists will praise him and cheer for what he's doing. At the same time, the people who spent eight years screaming about things like this (when Bush/Cheney were doing them) are now mostly silent if not finding ways to justify and defend it (we don't need due process because the President said this is an American-Hating Terrorist). As White House servant Richard Wolffe said in the second Olbermann segment below (and Wolffe's commentary was actually fairly good), the White House is "very proud" of its presidential assassination program, which is likely why they decided to leak it to the NYT and the WP yesterday.

Here again, we see one of the principal and longest-lasting effects of the Obama presidency: to put a pretty, eloquent, progressive face on what (until quite recently) was ostensibly considered by a large segment of the citizenry to be tyrannical right-wing extremism (e.g., indefinite detention, military commissions, "state secrets" used to block judicial review, an endless and always-expanding "War on Terror," immunity for war criminals, rampant corporatism -- and now unchecked presidential assassinations of American citizens), and thus to transform what were once bitter, partisan controversies into harmonious, bipartisan consensus

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2010/04/09-4
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Karmadillo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-09-10 10:16 AM
Response to Original message
1. Obama transforms "tryannical right-wing extremism" into "harmonious, bipartisan consensus." Go Team!
nt
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Karmadillo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 08:25 AM
Response to Reply #1
23. .
nt
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Luminous Animal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-09-10 10:27 AM
Response to Original message
2. Kick.
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Karmadillo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-09-10 11:05 AM
Response to Original message
3. Kick
nt
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Moochy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-09-10 11:28 AM
Response to Original message
4. Under the bus with Keith
Or is it a Humvee with Obama 08 stickers?
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-09-10 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. LOL
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Moochy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-09-10 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #5
15. Yes Officer thats' the Bus!
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Ignis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-09-10 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. Watch for "PRIMARY KEITH" threads to appear in 3...2...1....
;)
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Dinger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 08:57 AM
Response to Reply #4
25. I Remember How Keith Was During The P*
(shhhhh (primaries, which are over, I know), and when he said something like "Hillary and Obama should go into a room, and Obama comes out alone). Wasn't that special? This is wuite a turnaround for Keith. What happened? Buyers remorse? What????
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D23MIURG23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #25
32. Its always a good sign when someone is willing to change their mind based on evidence.
Candidate Obama never campaigned on a platform that included summary execution for suspected terrorists. I think Keith takes issue with the fact that president Obama has implemented this horribly misguided idea, and I'm glad he does.
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Moochy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #25
35. Maybe Blind Loyalty has a Cure
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Bullet1987 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-09-10 12:12 PM
Response to Original message
6. Democrats are no better than Republicans when it comes to blind partisanship
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-09-10 01:57 PM
Response to Original message
7. Bump
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-09-10 02:00 PM
Response to Original message
8. No one wants to see our pet elephant.
Oh, dear.
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joeybee12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-09-10 02:44 PM
Response to Original message
10. KNR!
Yeah, and now drilling is fine too because somehow that issue became "nuanced" once Obama talked about it.
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-09-10 02:54 PM
Response to Original message
11. Obama is wrong on this one
Very wrong.
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BunkerHill24 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-09-10 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. Hear Hear!
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-09-10 03:02 PM
Response to Original message
12. KandR for truth.
The hypocrisy of those who claim to support the rule of law when it's the other side breaking it yet cheer on this even more egregious violation is breathtaking.

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walldude Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-09-10 03:05 PM
Response to Original message
13. Well, it shouldn't be long before Keith starts hearing
about his "Pony" and the lovely sarcasm of "So McCain would have been better?"

I got news for you, Obama keeps doing shit like this and that whiny bullshit "So McCain would have been better" crap that gets thrown in my face constantly is going to end up being true.
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Senator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 01:50 AM
Response to Original message
16. This is what will be driving the midterm losses.
No, the DC-Euphemedia Avaristocracy will of course just kick sand over this latest/largest pile in their sandbox, but it will be the subtext of looming Nominee Circus.

Driving the Torture Getaway Car might not have been enough on its own, but this ought to stoke the continuing abjuration of the rank and file.

--
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speedcat Donating Member (68 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 02:03 AM
Response to Original message
17. CIA KILLS PEOPLE ALL THE TIME
WHAT'S THE BIG DEAL. Oh yeah, because he's AN AMERICAN CITIZEN. We're just a bunch of nationalistic fucks so self-centered that we make our lives more important than other people's lives. Just because of where they were born. Grow the fuck up, people.
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ima_sinnic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 03:52 AM
Response to Reply #17
19. right, we should throw the rule of law out the window because "the CIA does it all the time"
Edited on Sat Apr-10-10 03:55 AM by ima_sinnic
there are so many things wrong with what you posted, and I no longer have the patience to address any of them, nor do I much give a fuck anymore--this "democracy" died quite a while ago--back in at least 1963.

as Greenwald points out, it's "okay" because it's a democrat being the tin-pot dictator, ordering the killing of whomever he feels like, and it's further "okay" according to you because "the CIA does it all the time."

you can go back under your rock now, until it's time to come out to again defend the indefensible.
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speedcat Donating Member (68 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 10:37 AM
Response to Reply #19
30. ima_sinnic
apparently you didn't read my original reply. I was not suggesting it's OK because the CIA kills people all the time. I am making a statement that the CIA kills people all the time. The only difference here is that it's an American citizen. So why is it so much more of an outrage just because the targets are Americans? Aside from the obvious horrible legal precendent it would set here, of course. Come back with a response to THAT instead.
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howard112211 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 05:18 AM
Response to Reply #17
21. I understand your point of view, let me offer some additional perspective.
Why is there an important practical difference between a government agency murdering people of its own nation and murdering people of another nation? Morally, of course there is no difference. However, from the angle of asking under which conditions a democracy can remain stable, the
authorization to murder own citizens is a more severe threat to that particular system. In theory, in a democracy all power is derived from the electorate. People are not only citizens, they are the body that legitimizes the government. If the government can kill any particular citizen without going through some legal legitimate procedue, that means that the citizens of this particular country are no longer in control of
the system. One can argue that the immediate threat to democracy is not as severe if the authorization to murder without trial only covers non-citizens, since they are not in theory part of the governing body (in form of a voter) of this particular country.

However, I agree with you: The one is just as wrong as the other and citizens or not better people than non-citizens.
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speedcat Donating Member (68 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 10:34 AM
Response to Reply #21
29. precisely, howard
it is morally the same - just as wrong - however there is a terrifically bad legal precedent beings set if the targets are American citizens.
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Moochy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 12:08 PM
Response to Reply #17
34. Yeah whats the big deal about killing people anyways?
Edited on Sat Apr-10-10 12:10 PM by Moochy
American Exceptionalism works both ways... we can't be summarily executed with state sanction because we are Exceptional Americans! :shrug:
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speedcat Donating Member (68 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #34
37. sometimes humor is the only answer
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Hippo_Tron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 03:15 AM
Response to Original message
18. I would suggest that part of this is that people don't see it as affecting them
Certainly part of it is reluctance to criticize a Democratic president. But part of it is the fact that we could realistically see the NSA tapping our phones even if Bush said your phone would only be tapped if you were called Al Qaeda.

And so now the President says he has the authority to assassinate people except that the only places where he will realistically use a drone bombing to kill somebody are in Yemen, Afghanistan, and Pakistan. I think most people feel they can be safe from potential assassination by the government if they just stay out of these places.
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zaj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 04:02 AM
Response to Original message
20. I'm betting such cases involve a person who is deemed to have renounced their citizenship.
If so, that's technically different. Seems reasonable, IMO to deem a US Citizen who's taken up arms against the nation to have renouced their citizenship.
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D23MIURG23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #20
31. You are missing the point: he hasn't been convicted of taking up arms against the nation.
It would be different if he had, but you can't suspend someones citizenship based on suspicion. It is no different from the Bush administration declaring people "unlawful enemy combatants" and disappearing them, except that now it appears that people are going to be summarily executed instead of merely tortured and detained indefinitely without trial.
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 06:01 AM
Response to Original message
22. .
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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 08:46 AM
Response to Original message
24. K&R
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Robb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 09:06 AM
Response to Original message
26. OMG teh Democrats are actually secret fascist warmongerers!!11!
Thank God for Greenwald. :patriot:
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Moochy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #26
33. Thank god for 'satire' from the loyalty brigade
Edited on Sat Apr-10-10 12:44 PM by Moochy
What would we do without it? :shrug:

No need for secrecy with supporters who cheer assassinations.
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Robb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #33
40. The outrage brigade plays too loose with the facts for my taste.
Accusing everyone who disagrees with them of being cheerleaders. Real attractive.
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Moochy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 04:03 PM
Response to Reply #40
41. if you arent outraged at this blatant display of wanton killing
Then I conclude that something is broken with your outrage apparatus.
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Oilwellian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 09:23 AM
Response to Original message
27. Greenwald keeping things real
He is a must read every day if you want to live in reality.
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D23MIURG23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 09:31 AM
Response to Original message
28. WTF?! Why am I just now hearing about this...?
This is absolutely appalling. Our government has gone very, very wrong...
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ProgressIn2008 Donating Member (848 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 12:34 PM
Response to Original message
36. The underwhelming response to this story makes me wonder who really cared about law and who was just
scoring political points against W. in a football game. This is precisely why so many people are disgusted with politics and pols: when my football team is a bunch o' fascists, it's just fine.
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frustrated_lefty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #36
38. Not everyone is an asshole.
It's a good mantra, really, can get you through the day.

But, yeah, sometimes "our" side looks a lot like "their" side. On a positive note, we usually aspire to better.
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 03:44 PM
Response to Original message
39. .
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-11-10 08:15 AM
Response to Original message
42. .
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