Them's fighting words.

[cali]

Criticize Obama all you want for the war in Afghanistan or for his proposal re offshore drilling (something that will never happen- and he know's it) or for his broken promises re GLBT issues- he has NOT been a "fierce advocate".

But when you start in on the utterly fallacious and offensive "he's bush 2 crap", expect me to get in your face. It's a lie and it offends me on so many different levels.

I consider it damned close to hate speech.

[ixion]

1. So, just because someone doesn't share your perception, it's hate speech?

:shrug:

[Bluerthanblue]

3. saying something untrue about another can be hate speech-

it's not about perceptions- it about reality.

There is no way you can twist Barack Obama into being a clone of GW Bush- and those who make that claim are not only lying, they are lying with the intention of demeaning President Obama. That's pretty much hate speech imo.

:shrug:

[ixion]

4. Aye, there's the rub

I reject your qualifiers of reality, and whole-heartedly disagree with your premise.

[cali]

10. I think flat out lying like that skirts the edges.

Anyway that scurrilous comparison is not allowed here, so why do you keep doing it?

[ixion]

14. Well, being that I'm not a liar

I guess I don't see my opinion as either a lie or scurrilous. And although I don't always agree with you, I try not to insult you or your opinion, and I would appreciate the same consideration.

[superduperfarleft]

2. Ah, Cali's daily scolding.

I swear, she can't turn her back on you guys for even one second without you all getting into something.

[EOTE]

5. I agree for the most part.

But a quick question. Why do you believe his proposal regarding offshore drilling won't happen? I admit to not following the issue very closely, but he doesn't seem the type of guy to push something he knows is doomed to fail.

[cali]

8. because it involves years and years of studies and exploration

[EOTE]

17. And why would that preclude it from happening or passing?

Not that I'm particularly fond of the idea. It seems to me that Obama sees things very much in the long term. Years of studies and exploration wouldn't seem to me to be a road block for him.

[zipplewrath]

6. It's called hyperbole

I'm not sure why you have such an emotionally strong reaction to a simple rhetorical feature. Maybe you should think about that.

[cali]

18. I dislike the mindset it reflects quite intensely.

It's akin to the birther mindset.

[zipplewrath]

21. I'm curious what mindset you believe that is?

It is a statement of opinion that the functional difference between the two, on specific core issues, is trival at best. The fact that it is not "technically" true is what makes it hyperbole. Depending upon what those core issues are, it can be easily defended.

[cali]

28. it's a mindset that leads the holder of set mindset to believe anything

that fits with their narrative- no matter how incredible or farfetched it may be.

It's not merely technically not true, it's blatantly false.

[ixion]

30. I believe there is ample evidence

for the topic to be debatable, and in no way patently false, technically or otherwise.

[zipplewrath]

31. Ah, okay

Yes, it fits their narrative. They'd be foolish to NOT fit their narrative. And if they are merely "implying" their narrative, I'd sorta agree with you. It's one thing to say, in the context of say the Iraq strategy that "Obama and the Bush are basically the same". But then when you move out of that context, it is intellectually dishonest to say that "we've established that Obama and Bush are the same thing". Rush is fond of that logical fallacy. It's the old micro to macro fallacy.

I have to say though that it is equally intellectually dishonest to suggest that because they aren't literally carbon copies of each other, that one cannot suggest that the differences are trivial or inconsequential. That's pedantry to the point of hyperbole itself. On certain issues, there is little space between the two and even Obama would tell you that.

[howard112211]

7. Obama is not Bush2(3). My personal belief is that he...

...is basically a good guy who wants the right things, but is faced with difficulties because there are many special interest groups
and bad apples in the
democratic party who have to be dealt with.

[RaleighNCDUer]

27. ...while the Bush crime family is a cross-generational criminal enterprise

that has literally committed treason for the sake of personal enrichment. That alone makes a Bush/Obama comparison absurd.

[goclark]

9. +1. when I see the "Bush 2 "

stuff, I wipe my eyes and wonder, where were these people for those long eight years!

They could not have been on Planet Earth because those years were pretty damn painful.

My suggestion is for all of them to goback and reread all the times we tried to change ANYTHING Bush did and got NO WHERE.

My feeling about the "Back to Bush" days is the same that I feel for those that say they don't want the new Health Care....TURN IN YOUR MEDICAL INSURANCE CARD and the CARDS for all of your family members and get back to me.

Back To Bush means SARAH and JOHN and the TEABAGS.:puke:

[mmonk]

11. He is not what he ran as.

Don't get too upset if that makes people mad. It's not their fault.

[DevonRex]

12. So do I. Rec. nt

[MadHound]

13. Hate speech eh?

Your usual hyperbole:eyes:

[cali]

16. I said it's close to it.

and no, it's not hyperbole. Nor do I regularly engage in such- not even close.

[MadHound]

19. It's not even close to it

I guess you're pissed at Maddow also, who said last night that Obama was quickly becoming like Clinton, the best Republican president we ever had.

And I'm not even going to go into you and your use of hyperbole, the record is clear and speaks for itself.

[Fumesucker]

15. It's more hurtful when someone on your team does something hateful or underhanded..

Someone you never liked in the first place has far less power to cause you pain than someone you supported and cared for.

That's why the over the top rhetoric gets used, people are severely hurt and venting their emotional pain.

[Cleita]

20. But, but, but, the other day you said hate speech was protected under

the First Amendment and you like it that way.

[cali]

29. uh yeah. but I never said I'd just sit passively while someone spews it.

[Marr]

22. I find it odd that you're condemning hyperbole as "close to hate speech".

For some reason, I'm reminded of the vertigious sensation I got when I was a kid, holding two big mirrors up to each other in perfect alignment, and peering in.

[Echo In Light]

24. I find it odd that so many routinely waste time trying to interact w/the OP

[zipplewrath]

32. Kobayashi Maru

Occasionally the exercise is about ones experience with the process, not the actual outcome. Occasionally when I was trying to improve, I'd go abuse myself on a double black diamond for a single run, to amplify my short comings and make them easier to identify. Then I'd go back to a single black diamond and work those issues.

[Morning Dew]

23. If you count it right

Then:

Bush 1 = Reagan
Bush 2 = GHW
Bush 3 = Clinton
Bush 4 = W

Bush 5 = Obama

Thanks!

We could go back to President number 1 and recount from there

Bush 1 = George Washington Bush

But I don't want to type that much.

[ixion]

25. That I would agree with

and would change the value of my Bush X to 5.

[Forkboy]

26. I've told you a million times not to exaggerate!