Yes, there's a lot to criticize about dems and the dem party, but

[cali]

if you honestly believe that dems are just as bad as repubs, why in hell are you posting here? What is it you hope to accomplish? Please explain.

[ixion]

1. I hope to accomplish change, for one...

and speak my opinion, for the other, because staying silent is bad. :)


I hold both parties to the same standard, no exceptions. Anything else would be hypocrisy.

[dennis4868]

6. Hypocrite =

republican

[The Wielding Truth]

17. We don't want to dismantle the government and sell it! Pub's do.

[Political Heretic]

26. Washington Dems. just as much about selling government to the rich.

[saracat]

2. Well, I believe the Dems are marginally better. I suppose many feel, as I do that

we must first recognize our mistakes in order to reform from within the party. I have been horrified at the RW slant some current Dem's have been taking.I never thought public education,choice, peace efforts, environmental protection or LGBT rights would have to be "defended" on a Democratic site.

[RKP5637]

9. Agree!!! n/t

[movonne]

14. What you say ... perfect...I can see it being 100% worse with repugs running

the show...I myself did not expect Obama to turn into a DLCer...that is one reason I did not want Hillary..

[saracat]

18. With the dems there is the "hope" however slight it may be currently, that we may be able

to bring them back to supporting the people instead of the paycheck. It isn't just about "winning" it is about what you do when you WIN.

[mike_c]

3. silence = acquiescence...

...and I've been a member of this community since the early days, when democrats wandered the wilderness ashamed of their nakedness, howling their outrage at nature, and Nader....

Like ixion though, I just keep hoping for change.

[Mike 03]

4. Thank you, I completely agree. And so far, the silence is deafening.

Kick and Rec.

Apparently, people feel confident enough to "un-rec" your post but not confident enough to respond to it.

[mike_c]

7. LOL-- it's only been up for 12 minutes....

:rofl:

[redqueen]

12. In 12 minutes the "Nader was right" thread had 22 responses. (nt)

[DevonRex]

22. Funny how the third party BS comes in waves, isn't it?

That damn BS got locked twice today.

[PVnRT]

33. Funny how most Kucinich and Nader threads

are started by people who can't stand either of them for the sole purpose of starting a flamefest.

[redqueen]

38. Persistent in their efforts to put the GOP back in charge, aren't they? (nt)

[zipplewrath]

5. Arguing against the hyperbole

Is your attempt here to argue against the hyperbole? "just as bad" is predominately an act of hyperbole, ya know exaggeration for the point of emphasis. Whether it is hyperbole, or fact is of little matter with respect to the larger problem. Is it really important whether they are "almost as bad" or "exactly the same"?

[cali]

10. no, I'm genuinely curious

there are more than a few people here who honestly believe that the dems are as bad as the republicans. I'm curious as to why they post on a site which expressly supports the election of dems.

[sendero]

35. We support Democratic ideals..

... just not the current crop of failures we've elected. It is really simple.

And I'm DEAD SERIOUS when I say I will not vote for Obama again no matter who he is running against. I will NOT VOTE FOR THIS LOSER who is going to kill the party for another decade with his inability to do anything of value to distinguish himself from a Republican.

[cali]

36. I couldn't disagree with you more

your life and mine will be markedly worse if a repuke wins the presidency and those that can't see that are simply blind.

[sendero]

37. Naw..

... he's totally committed to bailing out the banksters, his war plans are indistinguishable from a Republican's, he hasn't done ONE DAMNED THING to prevent the banksters from doing the WHOLE THING AGAIN. Look here is what I think.

This country is going to have to hit ROCK BOTTOM before anything changes. Obama won't take us there, but he's not lifting us up either. With Obama, we're just in a holding pattern that goes on as long as he's there.

The next adminstration WILL be Republican whether I vote or not. People vote their pocketbooks and they will throw out the Dems (you'll get a preview this fall) even though it was really Republican policies that are mostly to blame for where we are. And the Republicans will probably finish the job of trashing America. Maybe then we can set about to fix it.

We'll never fix anything with the "big business rules everything" mindset that apparently Obama is almost as infected with as the average Repub.


I THOUGHT THINGS WERE BAD ENOUGH NOW TO ACTUALLY GET SOME "CHANGE" BUT APPARENTLY I WAS DEAD WRONG.

[Toasterlad]

40. Explain How.

[RKP5637]

8. I think a lot of us want to make the democratic party better. IMO when the DLC became

the direction (it appears) for the modern democratic party people lost out... I find myself, for example, quite frustrated with the current democratic party. A number of politicians masquerading as democrats in congress might as well be republicans.

[Fumesucker]

11. There's a slight possibility of pulling the Dems back from the brink of the abyss?

Whereas the Reps are enthusiastically base jumping into that abyss..

[cali]

15. OK, so then you see some hope for the dem party?

[Fumesucker]

16. Hope springs eternal in the human breast.

-Alexander Pope

[Bobbie Jo]

13. I ask myself the same question every time I log on to DU...

The responses should be interesting and in 'some' cases, predictable. Thank you for asking.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

19. Holding public servants accountable is the responsibility of the citizenry.

Even if they're Democrats.

As for the "not as bad" meme, it's wearing very thin when we have a president who cuddles up to Wall Street, escalates a lost war, coddles war criminals, and bungles health care reform.

The American people elected a professional politician who promised "change" and got the status quo and excuses.

[emilyg]

20. +1

[DevonRex]

21. Some are third party folks with nowhere else to post that gets any traffic.

[ShamelessHussy]

23. clue

folks in

edit to add...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=7814434&mesg_id=7814434

:hi:

[upi402]

24. uh... cuz we want our party back

Do you have a bit of a blindspot when reading our posts, or just want to feel some heat in the long cold winter?

:popcorn:

[cali]

31. uh, how does advocating voting third party achieve that, little genius?

[Edweird]

25. The DLC coup is the problem.

[Political Heretic]

27. Both Dems and Reps. ignore the sinking ship, willfully, in service to the whims of the $ elite

That's the problem.

There are of course differences between Dems. and Reps. within a narrow spectrum of allowed difference tolerated by elite consensus. Sometimes, those smaller differences can translate into meaningful benefits in real people's lives.

But the ship is still sinking. We have been on an unsustainable economic path for quite some time, with plenty of help from Dem. power brokers along the way. Leadership and national representatives in both parties are uninterested in even talking about the structural injustices intrinsic to this modern capitalist society.

When the ship is sinking, making passengers more comfortable in the short run but refusing to address the reality of the sinking ship is recklessly irresponsible. So every time someone shouts at the top of their lungs, "Dems. passed the Lilly Ledbetter Act!" there's a reason why pretending as though that or any other non-structural accomplishment removes all responsibility for the party's complicity in our ship's sinking and its steadfast refusal to acknowledge our ship is sinking remains an intolerable problem.

Whether you think capitalism itself is to blame, or whether you think there are some better and worse varieties of capitalist economies out there - we need to all agree that this particular system we have today is a system of plunder.

And neither Democratic nor Republican parties are willing to even talk seriously about the economic and political structure itself that makes this the case. Therefore, change is needed. I would prefer that we keep the name of the Democratic Party, along with the millions of registered Democrats who do in fact desire structural change even though our national party leaders do not. I'd rather keep the history - the history of a time when our party nominated a man for president who stood up at his party's convention and called out "economic royalists" who were ravaging the country and defiantly declared, "I welcome their hatred."

I post in DU because (a) I want more people to become awakened to the reality of the social inequality and intolerable injustice of our society and reach a breaking point where they decided so important that its worth their silence and inaction.

(b) because even though I know the odds are against it, I desire to state the what I believe to be the truth: the time has come for us to finish the work Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. was speaking of right up until the day he was killed. It is time for a second Civil Rights Movement - really merely a continuation of the unfinished work of the first Civil Rights Movement - that is focused on the cause of economic justice, and in demand of the second bill of rights first suggested by Franklin Roosevelt.

(c) because I want people to change the Democratic party completely - by voting out its corporate shills and lackeys and voting in representatives of the people, of labor, of the poor. And I'm not scared off by the politics of fear that says if we ever stand up for what we know to be right and remove corporate capitulating Democrats from positions of power, than republicans will win. Maybe there will be some short term political losses, but its the only way I believe we can win the war. And I have the courage to fight that fight, and I don't think we should be scared into silence or complicity but those who would use such fear-mongering to reinforce the status quo.

That's why I pose here.

Why else to I post here? Because of this:

Figure 1: Net worth and financial wealth distribution in the U.S. in 2007


Figure 2a: Wealth distribution by type of asset, 2007: investment assets


Figure 2b: Wealth distribution by type of asset, 2007: other assets

[ipaint]

29. Thank you.

Perfectly stated. :thumbsup:

[depakid]

28. It's getting to be about the only cogent argument that the Dems have left.

"We're not as bad as Republicans."

Unfortunately, the tendency is for strong & wrong to beat weak & right- which means that the more the Dems pander to "compromise" with Republicans, the worse their chances get.

[branders seine]

30. change, implementation of Democratic Party ideals.

just as bad? no, but there are more similarities than differences.

[557188]

32. Dennis Kucinich

Still a member of this party right?

My goal is to support Dennis Kucinich, and other future progressives, in retaking the party from those who seek to continue Republican policies.

[PVnRT]

34. That's basically the argument the centrists and loyalists-at-all-cost use

A Democrat is slightly better than a Republican, so, liberal, quit your fucking whining and send us money, volunteer time and votes.

It's kind of hard to get fired up about the lesser of two evils, and some people are just tired of it altogether.

[Toasterlad]

42. Exactly. All They Have To Offer Is "Republicans! Boo!"

[Toasterlad]

39. There Are Still Progressives Here Working To Recover the Party

One hopes there's more to DU than "Obama! Yay!" Intelligent people have something to say as well.

[ourbluenation]

41. No argument from me. Born a dem, live as a dem, will die a dem.

Booyah.