Alternative lunch in our public school--due to Lent

[CoffeeCat]

I'm not not going to call the school or organize a protest against cheese
sandwiches, but I find it odd that my children's public school would
recognize lent and provide alternative lunches for children who participate
in lent.

Apparently, cheese sandwiches will be provided to the students on Fridays
during lent, so students can opt for a "non meat" lunch. Many abstain from
meat on Fridays during lent.

I thought our public schools were supposed to stay out of religion entirely?

I've never noticed our school providing kosher meals. Muslims are not supposed
to eat pork, and I've never noticed an alternative lunch for Muslim students
when the meal is pork chops or pepperoni pizza.

If a student wishes to participate in religious and lenten activities, and abstain
from meat--can't the parents make a non-meat lunch for the child to bring to
school? Why would a public school step in and make these accommodations?

Am I out of line for believing that public schools shouldn't alter their
lunch menus on the basis of religious practices?

[Nye Bevan]

1. Offering cheese sandwiches is not an endorsement of religion

If there were a lot of Muslim students then I would expect that the school would offer an alternative when the meal was pork. I suspect that there are many more Catholic students then Muslims at this school.

As another example, my kids' public schools always observe holidays for Christmas Day, Good Friday, Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur, but do not observe any Muslim holidays. This is because the Christian and Jewish children vastly outnumber the Muslims.

[CoffeeCat]

7. There isn't a large contingent of Catholics...

...in our area.

I'm not sure, but I think other religions participate in Lent also.

Possibly Lutherans?

There are some Muslims and some kids from India as well.

[Maru Kitteh]

23. Many Protestants participate in Lent, organized or not.

[MineralMan]

27. Where are you? Give us a link to the lunch menu for your local high

school. If you look at the ones around here, there are choices every day.

Here is a link to the March menu at the Saint Paul, MN Public High schools. Note that there are options every day, and there's no pork at all on the menu:

http://www.sppscafe.org/sites/3045cf14-0431-4dc4-af6f-c79a83745084/uploads/HighSchoolMenu_Mar10_3.pdf

[geardaddy]

69. Damn it MM

I saw this, Tater Tot Hot Dish, and now I want some!

[MineralMan]

79. That tater tot hot dish probably looks much better than the one

served at the school. However, tater tot hot dish is a sacramental meal for Lutherans of Scandihoovian descent here in Minnesota. It's a religious accommodation, doncha know...

[geardaddy]

81. Yep, I'm sure the school version is worse

As a Minnesotan, but a non-Scandinavian and non-Lutheran, I believe that tater tot hotdish is a sacremental meal for all Minnesotans, dontcha know...

[MineralMan]

84. Yah, but it's only a religious sacrament for the Scandahoovian

Lutherans. The church basement ladies have spread the dish to the rest of the population as part of their Evangelical zeal, you betcha. It isn't called the Evangelical Lutheran Church for nothing, you know.

You eat enough hot dish and you'll find yourself gravitating to the local ELCA church basement once a month. From there, it's only a matter of time until you join the church. Then, they initiate you into the sacrament of Lutefisk and white potatoes. It's insidious.

[geardaddy]

85. lol

So true!

[HillWilliam]

121. That must be a northern Lutheran thing

we suthren Misery Sinners, er, Missouri Synod Lutherans cling to our swaytater pah and swaytay. That's sweet potato pie and sweet tea for the non-suthren :)

You know our kinship by the weak coffee served in the basement.

[geardaddy]

132. There's plenty of MO Synod churches

here in MN, too.

[pnwmom]

46. The school wants kids to buy their lunches. By offering the cheese sandwiches,

they increase the likelihood that more students will buy the school lunch. So this isn't just about accommodating Catholics -- it's also about selling food.

[CoffeeCat]

59. That makes sense too (nt)

[Lydia Leftcoast]

131. Episcopalians and Lutherans recognize Lent but do not have any dietary laws

connected with it.

When I was in school, we ALWAYS had either fish sticks or tunaburgers on Fridays, because Catholics at that time could not eat meat on any Friday.

If there aren't a lot of Catholics, it's odd that they should offer cheese sandwich alternatives on Fridays only.

I'd think that nowadays, there would be a lot of vegetarians in any school population, so that having a daily vegetarian option would take care of everyone who didn't want to eat certain kinds of meat or any meat at any particular time.

[Tesha]

2. They should make reasonable accommodations for all students, whether...

...Catholic, Jewish, Muslim, or peanut, wheat, or
milk, or meat averse.

Emphasis on "reasonable".

Call the school district and see how they feel
about your question!

Tesha

[Dulcinea]

73. Our school district has a lot of Indian & Pakistani kids.

Many of them are vegetarians. So our school offers a lunch choice with meat & one without. Freedom of choice!

[CoffeeCat]

3. an unrec all ready?

I have nothing against anyone practicing their religion. This is an
issue about public schools recognizing and altering lunches for religious
celebrations.

It's all well and good--until someone else's religion is foisted on your
child.

Just wait until the Scientologists want to have "thetan taters" put on
the menu!

Can you imagine the outrage if there was a Muslim alternative lunch
on the days that the school served pork?

We have to be intellectually consistent.

[Nye Bevan]

8. How about schools altering *schedules* for religious celebrations?

My public school district closes all schools on Yom Kippur. Do you have a problem with that?

[KamaAina]

65. The original rationale for closing NY-area schools on Jewish holy days

was to accommodate teachers, not students. A few decades ago, nearly all NYC public school teachers were Jewish. So if they'd opened the schools, they wouldn't have had any teachers.

[Kalyke]

9. How is it being "foisted" on your child?

Your child has a choice of the hot meat meal or the cheese sandwich.

BTW, as a person highly allergic to pork products, I really WISH schools would offer alternative lunches for Jewish and Muslim children who don't eat pork. I'm a Christian, but I'd be joining them in their choice.

[MineralMan]

35. The school menus in Saint Paul, MN have no pork on them.

I think that's typical these days. There are Muslim and Jewish kids everywhere. Pork is not a sacrament for any religion. Chicken is the most common thing on these menus, including the hot dogs. Pork isn't on the menu.

[Maru Kitteh]

13. Cheese sandwich does not equal "foisting a religion" - sheesh

Are they delivering electroshock to the kids who dare to eat meat or making them wear an H on their chest for heretic or something?

No.

[CoffeeCat]

32. I don't think it's being foisted on my child...

...I was making the point that if religious practices were being
foisted on your child--the problem might be a bit more obvious.

Imagine receiving an email from your child's school--outlining
that pork products will now be banned, due to some children's
religious practices that ban pork.

I'm just making the point that religious practices should not
be in the school--at all.

I wasn't aware that this was even allowed, so I'm more surprised
than anything.

[MineralMan]

33. Again, Almost no schools serve pork in their school lunches.

Give us a link to your school's menu. It's there on the school website. Have you even looked at it? Here's a link to the menus in Saint Paul. Can you find any pork there?

http://www.sppscafe.org/sites/3045cf14-0431-4dc4-af6f-c79a83745084/uploads/HighSchoolMenu_Mar10_3.pdf

[CoffeeCat]

37. Yes, we serve pork products in my child's school...

There are pork products served every week on the school lunch menu.

I see that your school district doesn't list any pork products. Do you
think that pork is not served for religious reasons?

It is served here frequently, but I assumed that was because it is plentiful
here in Iowa, thus cheaper and more readily available.

[MineralMan]

40. Pork is not served for very important religious reasons.

Our city has a large population of Muslims, and a fairly large population of Jews. So, what city in Iowa? I want to go look at the menus. I really do.

[CoffeeCat]

44. I'm looking at the menu for Feb...

...and there are pork product lunches listed for:

Feb 5th--Rib w/Bun, corn, pudding, fresh fruit and milk
Feb 9th--Mini pancakes and sausages, hash brown potatoes, Orange juice or banana, muffin and milk
Feb 19th--Pepperoni pizza, raw veggies w/ranch, rice krispie bar, fruit and milk
Feb 22--French toast sticks, sausages, syrup, orange juice, fresh fruit milk

These are all identified as "pork products" on the menu. That could be a way to let
people know that this is pork, so they can bring a sack lunch if they choose.

I will PM you a link. I am not interested in this being an issue about our school. I love
our school.

I'm not completely outraged. I am just simply asking a question...is is appropriate for
a school to send out an email announcing that cheese sandwiches will be on the menus on
Friday in observation of lent.

If people think that is fine...it's interesting. It's ok.

I'm not foaming at the mouth, just asking questions and listening. :)

[MineralMan]

47. So, there was no alternative on those days that offered a pork

entree? I notice you only provided a few days, and most were breakfasts.

The entire menu may tell a different story, doncha think?

[CoffeeCat]

51. On those days...

...I only listed lunches. There are breakfast items that are served for lunch a couple
of days every month.

I only listed the lunches that included pork products. I listed the full menu
of lunch items for that day. I omitted nothing.

No, it would appear that there is no non-pork alternative listed. Again, I outlined
the full menu for that day... I listed everything.

[MineralMan]

52. Are there no Muslims or Jews in your school? What will they eat?

Your kids can eat anything. Muslims and Jews can't eat pork. So, does someone not suffer because of this menu? Is that fair?

You said you'd PM me the link. I'd like to see it, OK? I won't mention the name of the school in open discussion.

[CoffeeCat]

54. I'll PM you the link...

...thanks for not mentioning the name of the school.

[quiller4]

98. I think it is fine and not particularly new. When my husband was in

high school in the mid 1960s, the school served a meatless option every Friday of the school year. I attended a Catholic high school that served only meatless items on Fridays.

Our district serves no pork products and has a daily vegetarian offering. You would be surprised at the high number of vegetarian or vegan teens. The decision to eliminate pork from the menu was made some 20 years ago. The hot dogs are either all beef or chicken. We have two temples in the community but the Jewish polulation is not large. We have only one mosque and a small Muslim community.

[MineralMan]

45. So, I went to the Des Moines, IA school lunch menu..

They do offer pork, and every time they do, there is an alternative entree that does not contain pork. Accommodations are made on a daily basis there...religious-based accommodations.

Accommodating the needs of a religious belief is fine. Nobody goes hungry, since everyone can eat a meatless menu or a menu without pork. By contrast, not everyone can eat a meat-based menu or a pork-based menu. Alternatives are offered to accommodate. There is nothing American in non-accommodation, now, is there?

Your kids can eat a cheese sandwich. The Catholic kids who are observing meatless Fridays can't eat a burger. So, if they provide cheese sandwiches, everyone can eat. Where's the problem?

[CoffeeCat]

56. I'm in the suburbs. (nt)

[proud2BlibKansan]

97. I'm in two schools in the same district every day and they rarely have the same lunch

[WinkyDink]

63. Local schools, local control, local common traditions. Are there Muslims attending your schools?

Then, yes, pork and nothing else would be offensive, if the Muslim (or Jewish) students made up a sizable portion of the student body.

[Maru Kitteh]

57. Imagine the moon was made of blue cheese.

That's not what's happening here, is it.

You weren't aware that reasonable accommodation was "allowed" in schools? Well. Now you are. It's a cheese sandwich. Move on.

[CoffeeCat]

58. That's good advice...

I think I will!

:)

[MineralMan]

61. Bingo! Reasonable accommodation. What a concept, eh?.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

128. If the moon were made out of cheese, would you eat it?

Well, would you?

[SoxFan]

104. Ever heard of the Free Exercise Clause?

Jeez.

[Tesha]

78. You've had more than one "unrec"

I had already "nulled-out" one!

Tesha

[Beer Snob-50]

92. I am sure that if a Muslim were to ask,

the school would serve something different on those days. Or scientologist. You aren't forced to eat the alternative, but it is there for those who wish to practice their faith.

[kudzu22]

99. Is your school open on Christmas?

Get over yourself. Accommodating the religous needs of the students is not the same as advocating religion. If you had a lot of Hindu students, I'd expect there would be a non-beef dish every day.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

126. Yes, you may be out of the running for Homecoming Queen, all thanks to the Unrec Patrol

[Romulox]

4. Not many cheese and baloney sandwhiches served in Muslim, Jewish neighborhood schools.

Somebody call the authorities!

[piratefish08]

5. Flying Spaghetti Monster commands I eat Pasta.

So what's a guy gotta do to get a little fettucini in this fuggin place??!?

[azmouse]

6. When I went to public school in the 60s and 70s

seafood or non-meat items were always served on Friday.
I don't remember anyone fussing.
What's the big deal?

[CoffeeCat]

12. I agree...

...that this isn't a huge crisis. I'm just asking the question...Is it appropriate
for a public school to offer special lunch accommodations, in observation of a
religious practice?

Also, I understand that public schools always have fish or grilled cheese every Friday.
However, that's a little different than the school sending our emails and expressly
saying that they are offering an alternative lunch for kids observing lent.

There's a difference between those two things.

[azmouse]

21. Did any parents request the school to offer meatless Friday meals?

If Muslim parents or vegetarian parents requested special meals would they be accommodated?
It just seems like the polite thing to do.

[MineralMan]

29. Most school menus do not offer pork dishes, or offer an alternative

if they do. Here's a full month's menus for the Saint Paul, MN Public High Schools:

http://www.sppscafe.org/sites/3045cf14-0431-4dc4-af6f-c79a83745084/uploads/HighSchoolMenu_Mar10_3.pdf

No pork on the menu, and vegetarian options most of the time.

[kestrel91316]

20. Same here. Nobody gave a rip then. Even the Jewish kids.

People could buy a hot lunch or bring a sack lunch. Nobody kept track or paid attention.

Fish was nice for a change. TRULY, no one but a malcontent would fuss about it being on Fridays.

[azmouse]

25. I never gave it much thought til I was older.

I'm not Catholic and didn't follow meatless Friday. To me it was just another meal and I love seafood.

[CoffeeCat]

34. I'm not asking this question..

...because fish is being offered on Fridays. That is not the issue. That is
not what is even happening here.

The issue is that the school is sending out emails, announcing that
due to Lent, cheese sandwiches will be served on Fridays. My question was--are
public schools supposed to be observing and making accommodations
for religious practices?

I am not a malcontent. I will not even complain to the school.

I am simply noting that it seems odd that a public school would make
special accommodations for religious practices--and send out an email
about it.

[LisaM]

41. It's only foisting religion if they're forcing everyone to eat cheese sandwiches

or not offering an alternative.

I'm surprised they don't have a vegetarian option every day, though.

[kestrel91316]

110. Schools make special accomodations for religous practices all the time.

Christians get Christmas off. Jews get Passover and Yom Kippur off if desired. Muslim girls get to wear headscarves even if the school dress code prohibits hats.

As long as religion is not being TAUGHT in school, I am ok with a few tweaks to make daily school life less onerous for the devout. What is NOT ok is to accomodate one religion to the exclusion of all others, like when Christianity dominated the school mindset.

[Thothmes]

106. The fish sticks our High School served on Friday were

actually pretty good. The cooked a very good mac and cheese.

[Barack_America]

10. They should be offering non-meat options EVERY day.

Lots of kids are vegetarians these days.

[endless october]

16. yeah, i support that, too.

[Maru Kitteh]

18. AMEN! (pun intended) ..... :-)

[havocmom]

19. We have our WINNER!

excellent point! Thank you

[MineralMan]

26. Most schools do offer that option. At least they do where I live.

[QC]

31. BINGO! n/t

[GoneOffShore]

49. But they should cook bacon all during lunch

to torment them.

Bacon is the gateway protein after all.

:hide:

[Codeine]

118. Exactly.

And incidentally, school lunch ladies -- cheese ain't a vegetable!

[zipplewrath]

11. Maybe just pedantic

Philosophically you're right. One should either accommodate all religions, or none. We do have to be a bit careful of the "foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds" situation here. How many Kosher kids area there, or muslim? The school may be merely reacting to the magnitude of the problem.

That said, I do find it a tad odd. My school ALWAYS had an alternative meal of some sort. Usually something passing as fish, but occasionally a meatless sandwich and a bowl of tomato soup. This was an attempt, in part, to address the various groups you name, as well as allergies, and well... the fact that not all kids like all foods.

[Nye Bevan]

17. "One should either accommodate all religions, or none"

The public schools in my town close for Good Friday and Yom Kippur, but not for any Muslim holidays. Would you object to this policy?

[zipplewrath]

90. In a pedantic sense?

Yes. However, again, the specific context needs to be addressed. Is there a population that this would serve?

[Hekate]

112. All the district has to do is allow the day off without penalty. My hubby's college does...

He makes sure to tell his students at the start of each semester that they only have to tell him in advance which religious observances they want to keep and he will not penalize their absences. Same goes for teachers.

Hekate

[endless october]

14. i don't see the problem with offering different options

for different religions.

[MineralMan]

15. This is nothing new.When I was in school, in the

50s and early 60s, Friday cafeteria lunch was always meatless, not just during Lent. Fish, or mac and cheese, or something else, but no meat. You didn't have an option.

They did that because about half the kids were Catholic and that was at a time when Fridays were meatless by doctrine.

In any case, as near as I can remember, it was all pretty tasteless anyhow. Lots of kids brought their own lunches.

[prolesunited]

22. I think you are being ridiculous

If you have a school with a large population that observes Lent, it certainly is a reasonable accommodation. If you had a large Muslim population, I would expect similar accommodations. You are not endorsing anything. You are providing assistance to those who want to practice their religion.

As for parents packing lunches, there are so many children on free or reduced lunch programs right now. The lunch program may be the best meal they have all day.

[Maru Kitteh]

28. +1

[tammywammy]

95. +1 n/t

[SoxFan]

102. +1

I think the OP is just trying to kick up a Catholic-bashing shitstorm.

[MineralMan]

24. Is there some religion that prohibits eating mac and cheese or fish

or cheese sandwiches? No? Then everyone eats. The school accommodates the kids who have some religious reason for not eating meat, but everyone can certainly eat the alternative meal.

As for your question about Muslims and Jews and pork products, I suspect you aren't aware that that need is met in schools. You rarely see pork on school lunch menus. Why is that, do you suppose? On pizza day, you get your choice of cheese or pepperoni pizza.

Have you actually looked at the lunch menus for your local schools?

[CoffeeCat]

39. Very famillar with my kid's lunch menu...

...we go over it together--and the kids tell me whether or not they
want hot/cold lunch that day.

So, yes--I not only look at the menu, I ask my kids about their preference and
I pack lunches for them when they don't want hot lunch.

One of the things I love doing as a mom...

[MineralMan]

42. What city? I will post a link to the menus, if you won't.

[CoffeeCat]

48. I don't want this being about my school...

...I don't want to draw attention to my specific school.

I listed the menu choices for Feb, five days in which pork products are offered.

[MineralMan]

50. Yes, I saw that. Four, I believe, were breakfasts.

Now, go back and look at those days again. Is there not an alternative entree to the Pork-based one? I'm betting there is.

I don't care about it being your school or any other school.

[CoffeeCat]

53. Again, just to clarify...

...all meals that were listed---were lunches. Sometimes (about 2-3 times per month) our
kids get breakfast items for lunch. The kids love having sausages and pancakes for lunch.

There is no pork alterative listed. My kids have been at this elementary school for
a few years. I've never seen any pork alternative listed.

[MineralMan]

55. So, there are no Muslims or Jews in your community?

If there are, what do they eat on those days? Hmmm....

Doesn't seem quite fair, now, does it?

[Retrograde]

64. More importantly, has anyone requested alternatives?

(IANAL, and this is based on a decade old management class) an institution isn't expected to guess what its clients/patrons/customers/students/inmates need. They are, however, supposed to provide reasonable accommodation if requested - and many try to anticipate such needs.

There may still be communities in the US where Muslims, Jews, Hindus and others are still a minority, or maybe the concept of someone having special needs just hasn't occurred to the people in charge. Maybe in the OP's case Catholic families requested the meatless days. If a family requested alternate meals for its children for religious reasons and the school refused, that's another story, but if no one ever asks and no one complains why shouldn't the school keep on doing what it's doing?

[MineralMan]

66. Without naming the city, I know there is at least one Catholic church there.

Zero synagogues or mosques. It's a very white, protestant community. You're probably right...nobody has ever asked for an alternative, either because there aren't any groups there to ask or there are so few that they are afraid to make waves.

[MineralMan]

60. OK, I looked at the menu, and you are correct. There are no

alternatives for pork-based entrees on the days they are served. So, I looked at the demographics of your community and its houses of worship. No synagogues, so there probably aren't any Jewish kids in your school. The black population there is very, very low, so probably not any Muslims, either.

Seems like a nice white, protestant little town. I did see a Catholic church, though. Now, if you could just run that church out of town, the kiddies wouldn't have to eat cheese sandwiches, I guess.

So, I guess the pork isn't going to offend anyone there. How nice to live in a place like that, eh? Nice and sheltered. Not too much diversity to worry about.

Just down the road, though, is Des Moines. Several synagogues there, so that must explain why there is always an alternative to pork on their school lunch menu. Probably some Muslims among the population, too. They have to adapt.

[CoffeeCat]

67. Wow...

You're implying that I'm the kind of person who wants to run churches out of town. Then, you
imply that diversity is something that I would "worry" about.

Mean people suck.

I initially asked this question, because I felt that the majority was being catered to--and
the minorities were not even acknowledged. The lack of diversity here bothers me. I initially thought that all religious accommodations were not allowed in public schools. However, I was willing to learn more about that--and to have a diaglog about whether or not it is appropriate
for religious celebrations to be recognized in public schools--via menu choices.

You assume really nasty things about me that I find offensive. I've been nothing but
cordial to you.

[MineralMan]

74. My point is that schools have always accommodated

religious preferences. I've made that point several times. You just weren't aware of that because you live in a community that is massively white and protestant. So...the issue never arose. I pointed that out to you as well.

Every school in an area that has diversity of religion makes accommodations. They serve the community, after all. If there is no diversity, accommodation seems to come as a surprise to people when some is offered.

You have a very small minority of Catholics in your town. They are probably why the school has finally provided a lenten accommodation. They've probably wanted it for years. You just weren't aware of it.

I pointed out the accommodations made in the St. Paul schools. No pork, because there is a significant minority of Jews and Muslims in our city. All schools make accommodations. Of course it is all right to do so.

You may have noticed in the menu I sent that one day a week, they serve a Hmong dish. We have a community of Hmong here. Everyone eats a Hmong style meal once in a while at our schools. It's our way of acknowledging them.

The bottom line here is that everyone can eat fish and cheese, so there is no discrimination in offering that. Catholics who observe Lent do not eat meat on Friday. It's part of their heritage. They used to skip meat every Friday, not just during Lent. That's why, in my own public school 40+ years ago, we had fish or mac and cheese every Friday. It was a reasonable accommodation. We all ate the fish and mac and cheese. Nobody was deprived of food. If it were not serve, those who observed meatless Fridays would have had nothing to eat.

Similarly, our schools now offer vegetarian options for those students who do not eat meat. They always have something substantial they can eat on the menu. It is an accommodation that harms nobody. Not a soul.

Why am I being nasty? Because your OP failed to recognize the value of accommodation when it caused no harm to anyone. Nobody goes hungry because of that accommodation. Some would go hungry without it. Surely you have students in your school who are both Catholic and poor. They depend on school lunches. If they cannot eat meat on Friday during lent, and no accommodation is made, they will not eat lunch.

You addressed this issue only from your own perspective. That's why you got unrecommends. Then, when people pointed out the reasons for the accommodation and gave you examples, you argued with them. You appeared to be unwilling to comprehend why such accommodations are made. It is so the children attending the school will have a meal. For some kids, the school lunch is their main meal.

I hope, despite my lack of patience with you, you have gotten the point of all of this.

[Adsos Letter]

80. I agree with those who see no issue with accomodation; however

I think you are spot on about the tone of many of the responses you are getting. You raised an initial question, and followed it up with further questions. In this particular case, I see no reason for any nastiness on the part of the responders, other than their own attempt to trumpet some perceived intellectually superior insight.

[Kali]

123. that was a little mean

some of us who appreciate diversity and would defend it at great cost actually live in areas where there is very little of it. Not fair to accuse somebody that lives in an all white community of being prejudiced - that is a cause and effect error - other reasons for being in this type of community and in fact, those of us that are can be the vanguard of changing that type of prejudice.

[snooper2]

30. give up meat for a day..

that is blasphemy

[AngryOldDem]

36. What's the problem here?

The school is not making everyone eat cheese sandwiches on Fridays. It's being offered **as an option** to those who want to observe Lent.

It's just one more choice on the lunch menu. Get over it.

[MineralMan]

38. See, the thing is that someone's pissed that the school doesn't make

everyone eat pork or some other crap. I don't know of a religion that prohibits fish, cheese, or chicken. That's what's on most school lunch menus anyhow, with maybe some hamburger in the lasagna. They may use turkey in that, for all I know.

Nobody has pork on the school lunch menu. Even the pepperoni on the pizza is made without pork. Ample consideration has been given to religious students who eschew pork. The school lets them chew other things instead.

I hadn't heard that any branch of Christianity had made pork a sacrament. Last I heard, Christians could eat any damn thing, so nothing on the menu violates their religion already. Now, we adapt by removing pork products from the menu, or offering an alternative.

This is a gripe without a cause.

[AngryOldDem]

88. Just getting tired of the manufactured indignation.

And the cheese sandwiches will most likely be gone in about six weeks, so all the more reason to let this silliness go.

And if I had to guess, given the outrageous cost for the crap schools try to pass off as "lunch," most kids brown-bag it anyway.

[Kali]

125. "I don't know of a religion that prohibits fish, cheese, or chicken."

radical vegans

}(

:hide:

[Bill McBlueState]

43. you're not out of line

Your analogy to halal/kosher is entirely reasonable.

[WinkyDink]

62. Hey---school toasted-cheese sammiches are da BOMB!

[Zywiec]

68. Pork chops for lunch at school?

I have never seen this served. Perhaps I don't live in the same fancy area as you.

Can you tell me what school district you're in so I can review their menu online?

[proud2BlibKansan]

70. Not at all unusual

Schools have done this for years. And it is an option so kids who want meat can choose meat.

[CoffeeCat]

75. I am just surprised that...

these accommodations can be made--when the reason for the accommodation is
religious in nature.

I am just surprised. I thought public schools went out of their way to avoid any
religious topic. The kids Christmas parties are called "winter parties" and
they weren't allowed to put Christmas trees for decorations. I never thought
those were bad things, I just assumed that schools steered clear of anything
religious in nature.

[MineralMan]

82. When it comes to accommodations of religious requirements

schools have never not accommodated. If there is no diversity, they don't have to accommodate. Your community has one Catholic church in it, for a town of 20+ thousand. It has dozens of protestant churches.

Finally, they are accommodating the Catholic minority. It's about time.

You asked about Halal and Kosher accommodations. You don't have any Jews or Muslims in your town, or at least no houses of worship for them. No accommodation is needed. In cities where there is a minority of Jews and Muslims, you will not find pork on the menu. It is an accommodation based on the religious beliefs of that minority, and harms nobody else.

If, on the other hand, no accommodation was made, then it would be the school showing a preference for Protestant Christians. That's illegal. Making accommodations for religious beliefs is just fine. In fact, it's pretty much the law. Every child eats. The school, if it provides meals, must assure that every child can eat what is served. If they do not, they are discriminating against those children who cannot eat because of their religious beliefs.

Do you see the difference? We must accommodate if that accommodation does no harm to the majority. No harm is done in eating a cheese sandwich, whatever your beliefs. Much harm is done by refusing to provide a suitable meal to everyone.

[proud2BlibKansan]

96. Well the alternative is kids not coming to school

because of needing a meat free lunch.

At my school we always have alternative lunches available and not just on Fridays. We have quite a few kids who are Muslim and don't eat pork. So providing an alternative on Friday is not a problem. I would imagine other schools are also able to easily make this accommodation.

[proud2BlibKansan]

105. I definitely understand how this looks to you

and I appreciate that you are a parent who will ask these kind of questions. We need that dialogue.

But this really isn't that big of a deal. The other kids aren't inconvenienced in the least and it's not a distraction to the learning climate in a school. It's also not an extra expense.

I think banning Christmas trees is over the top though. We haven't had them in several years. And I have the cutest little tree I used to put in my classroom every year and decorated it with ornaments kids had given me. I love that tree! :)

[dembotoz]

71. The school lunch program is a nutition program. If cheese sandwiches during lent

keeps participation up--go for it.

I would hope that school lunch programs would show some flexiblity when it came to market forces.

Ie if there is a big demand for cheese sandwiches during lent?
serve cheese sandwiches.

[Quantess]

72. Cheese sandwiches were the best school lunch

when I was in school. Besides, school lunch meat is so substandard, even omnivores ought to think twice about eating meat at school.

Does it really matter that Lent is the motivation?

[geardaddy]

76. My school offered nothing but gruel

"Please sir, may I have some more?"

[supernova]

77. This is silly

most school systems offer a choice of entrees for lunch. You don't have to be religious to want a non-meat entree. Some kids are raised in vegetarian households. And even meat-eating kids sometimes want a cheese sandwich.

I don't see a big problem here.

[Green_Lantern]

83. allowing a non-meat alternative is not destroying...

SOCA....that's just an odd statement. They probably just realize that many of the kids at school recognize Lent and would not be able to eat a school lunch if it included meat.

Maybe the schools should have a non-meat alternative regardless but I don't think we should have meat only school lunch meals during Lent because it "violates the SOCA."

[Statistical]

86. Nothing wrong with making reasonable accomidations.

They aren't ending the normal lunches. They aren't forcing all students to eat cheese sandwiches.

A tempest in a teapot.

[hfojvt]

87. they did it every Friday all year when I was growing up

Fridays were always fish for lunch. In the Catholic world fish is not considered meat. Funny thing is, as I understand it, 'meatless Fridays' was no longer a requirement after Vatican II in 1963. Yet there we were in the late seventies having fish EVERY Friday, and not just during lent. It wasn't an option either. Everybody who bought the lunch got fish.

[ParkieDem]

89. That's not odd at all.

If there is a large contingent of a certain religious group in a particular community, they'd probably be facing a lawsuit if they didn't provide some sort of alternative.

Our school always gave Jehovah's witnesses an alternative study area when we said the pledge of allegiance or had a thanksgiving celebration or something. Schools in Louisiana have always (at least as far as I can remember) served fish on Fridays. It's really not that big of a deal.

[southernyankeebelle]

91. I use to observe lent. I don't think they should make exceptions for

anyone. Children can bring lunch from school.

[tammywammy]

94. And those poor kids that happen to be Catholic can just starve

:shrug:

Or the school can provide cheese sandwiches along with the regular offerings. But if some damn non-Catholic chooses the cheese sandwich I suggest we take them out back for a good smack down.

[OhioChick]

93. We've had alternative lunches here since I was a kid.... (Lent, Pork, etc.)

Still do. No big deal, although I never remember having pork chops in my district. Must be nice. :)

[defendandprotect]

100. Completely agree with you -- why is this going on?

[SoxFan]

103. Because the Pope's secret tunnel from Rome is almost complete

Time for you to bow down before your Evil Papist Overlords.

[defendandprotect]

113. Probably being built with our money . . .

:evilgrin:

[Maru Kitteh]

117. Yes, but is it LTCSHOP or MTCSHOP?

I lean to "let the cheese sandwich happen on purpose" myself.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

122. LOL.

Just wait until they elect a Catholic presid--wait, never mind.

[etherealtruth]

101. Come to Metro Detroit

We have a wealth of religious diversity (large Christian/ RCs, Muslim, Jewish ....) populations. School districts have modified menus since I was a kid. The idea is to provide lunches that children can eat. I have no problem with this. I would, however, (as others have said up-thread) like to see more vegetarian choices/menus for the students.

[Canuckistanian]

107. And I want an FSM feast day at the schools

Complete with pasta, beer volcanoes and strippers. Pirate theme mandatory for all students.

[shintao]

108. Oh Boy!! This really Disses me!!

I brought this issue to one of my ladies attention a min ago. And this happened last year. She told me about the 4 tator-tots, and went on to fill in the details for me ~ NOW as we discussed it. Apparently someone at school drug out religion and Lent. She says our niece told her after school that she was hungry & only had 4 tator-tots for lunch. That sent my bell ringing last year over paying for lunches and getting unhealthy diets. Anyway, she goes onto to say she can't eat at KFC because they have meat and she gave up meat until Easter!!! Well I am dissed again with the additional details. I will get on her mom and get to the bottom of this BS.

[rug]

109. It starts with a cheese sandwich and ends with the rack.

[Hekate]

111. My school used to schedule fish for Fridays--no biggie. Different menu every day--Friday got fish.

The fact that it accommodated Catholics wasn't a problem -- it simply meant that we all got greater variety.

It's very likely that a school lunch program could easily accommodate modified kosher and halal quite easily simply by eliminating pork and milk/meat combo dishes. It would not be difficult at all. Strict kosher/halal would still have to be the province of private schools.

There is no reason a school district lunch program shouldn't be able to offer a variety of nutritious meals, and by posting the menu a week in advance families could pick and choose which days to send a brown bag lunch from home.

Doing so is not peddling religion. Now if every meal came with a sermon, that would be another matter.

Hekate

[SoCalDem]

114. I'd insist on a Peeps Casserole for easter too

-----> so glad my kids are all grown up and all this school drama is behind me :)

[Maru Kitteh]

115. Peeps casserole? If that doesn't make you blow chow, nothing will.

That would make a great diet plan. Limit yourself to Peeps casserole or nothing.


How long can humans survive without food again?

I would be *so* thin. :puke:

[SoCalDem]

116. But only the yellow Peeps.. not the blue ones or pink ones

:rofl:

[Maru Kitteh]

119. no way dawg - if I'm eating peeps cassarole that mess better come in blue

I look really bad in neon yellow vomit.

[MadBadger]

120. My school used to have Matzoh during Passover. It pissed me off

But only because all the Christian kids used to eat all the Matzoh before I could have any :-(

[Tommy_Carcetti]

124. OFFS.

Seriesly?

It's not like they are forcing everyone to eat cheese sandwiches. And if they want to do the same for Muslims with pork or Hindus with beef, or offer a Kosher meal for Jewish students, I'm all fine with that. It's not as though they are having school sanctioned prayer services while they are serving lunch....it's lunch for crissakes.

[sufrommich]

127. Schools in the Detroit area allow muslim students to spend

lunch in the library during Ramadan so as not to be around other kids eating. Are you against that too?

[pipi_k]

129. Where I went to school, the lunches were always "alternative" anyway

I mean, seriously...

was that really meat in the meatloaf? And if it was, what kind?


Gravy that looked like thickened graywater.

Lettuce...or green crepe paper?

"Mashed potato" was code for "I just wallpapered my dining room and have wallpaper paste left over"


After school we went home and ate dirt for the nutrients.

[hedgehog]

130. I can top your OP: when my kids were in junior high, one of the lunch ladies was a fellow

parishioner. That is, we were Catholics, she was Catholic, and we all saw each other at Mass each Sunday.

During Lent, my kids were automatically served the meatless option on Friday, no questions asked. It didn't matter if they remembered the rules, because she did!

It used to crack me up every Lent.