Please allow me to be clear about my true feelings.

[divvy]

I have been a life-long democrat and progressive activist. I am sick and tired of working my ass off, and contributing money just to wind up getting screwed by the very people we support.

Remember these happy endings?

Al "roll-over and just screw us all" Gore
John "just let them swift boat and screw us all" Kerry
and now .... "lets play nice and screw up the chance of a lifetime because we are above all that" Obama.

I am fast nearing the point where I will NEVER contribute another dollar to any Democratic cause. We work hard to give them the tools, and they screw us all and squander the opportunity time and time again. Our leadership simply cannot be trusted with the responsibility.

The worst part is that there are no alternatives. I will never be a republican.

I have come to the conclusion that it is the intellectually prideful among us who are the real enemy. It is the "We cannot stoop to their level", or "We must be above all that" folks who have again ruined our chances for any meaningful change. I am beginning to think that the "politically correct" crowd are actually republican operatives who consistantly castrate our movement and allows us all to get pummeled. We expect others in war struck countries to put their lives on the line in support of our ideals while our very leadership wants to be nice and gentle when speaking the truth. We take the risks, they are "above all that".

Now we see crowds cheering for Dick Cheney on TV, and billboards alongside the freeway weeping the absence of Bush. WTF! How can we be so consistantly lousy at fighting the right battles in the right way.

[taterguy]

1. Because we're not as brilliant as you

[ldf]

34. he is spot on.

i agree with abso. fucking. lutely. everyone word he types.

but that's ok, snark on...

[gleaner]

50. If you support this mess, fine for you ...

I don't think it is necessary to be scornful of people who don't. It just makes you look as bad as Obama whom you seem to be supporting. Obama is a loser. Ask anyone who has their eyes wide open.

OP does and he makes some very good points. What is it you think you are doing?

[eleny]

2. "I will NEVER contribute another dollar to any Democratic cause"

Then what the heck are you doing here? Trying to get others to do the same?

No thanks. I'll contribute to candidates and causes I believe can help make change happen. You're on your own.

[divvy]

3. why not include the rest of the quote?

I am fast approaching the point where I will NEVER contribute another dollar to any democratic cause.

Don't you ever get tired of all the letters asking for money in the mail? I get at least 3 every day.

[eleny]

6. I rarely get requests from candidates in the mail even though I contribute

Mostly I receive requests from charities. That doesn't make me angry, though. If I don't plan to send a contribution I just toss the letter or delete the email.

Receiving requests isn't a good enough reason for me to decide to never contribute to any democratic cause again. I won't be following your lead no matter what your personal reasons.

[divvy]

11. I still get them from Jimmy Carter .... and I continue to contribute.

Do you remember him? I worked on his campaign too. He got fucked by the politically correct crowd too. Reagan and Bush conspired with the Iranians to hold 442 American hostages in exchange for advanced weaponry, or "arms for hostages / iran contra" at the time. Mr. Carter sent in the Marines to rescue the hostages, and they were attacked (the Marines were utterly destroyed) in the desert by the Revolutionary Guard. The captors told the hostages about the rescue attempt before it took place and detailed how it would be stopped in the desert. And, it was. George Bush was head of the CIA when this took place.

A very young Senator John Kerry lead the "october suprise" hearings in the Senate which revealed these events. Guess what?


You never heard about this before, and shouldn't you have? Meanwhile, there are Monica Lewinski blow job coloring books being distributed to grade shool children. Can't you sense something wrong here?

[blondeatlast]

52. "politically correct..." Frankie, that you? nt

[patrice]

18. Perhaps it's time for you to become more personally involved with a candidate

that you have chosen for your own very specific reasons, one who honors his/her relationship to you and others on the basis of policy rather than money only.

Perhaps you can see where I'm headed here. I think it's time to get rid of the middle-men who fuck up so much of what we need from our candidates AND I think one can use party to one's (and other like minded individuals') advantage in doing so.

[patrice]

23. And if it doesn't work out, well then at least you became more clear in the process and might have

even found some like-minded other persons to go Forward with anyway, because . . .

What the HELL are you going to do anyway? You have Forward or Dead. Those are your choices.

[1620rock]

5. The poster is spot on! We HAVE been had.

[patrice]

21. Yes! we have. But for some of us at least, that has just added MORE fuel to the NGU Fire.

And fires "burn" WHATEVER fuel is handy.

[Richardo]

4. ...

:nopity:

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[asdjrocky]

8. It's a hard pill to sallow, I know.

You're just a few steps away from realizing the truth.

They do it on purpose.

Seriously, you can not lose this much unless you are trying to throw the game.

[Warpy]

9. Begging letters from the party go into the shitcan

but I am already contributing to selected candidates who are in there fighting the good fight. I'm not rich and I have to pick my battles accordingly.

The DLC infested party leadership can go fuck itself, though. I'm done with them. They don't give a shit who's in power as long as the cash flow is positive. I'm trying to help make it negative.

However, there are good people in the party and they're fighting for all of us. That's where my effort and my money will be going.

[emilyg]

25. +1

[Greyhound]

10. You're assuming their motivation is what you've been told it is. You are absolutely right

in your evaluation of the party's performance, but you've arrived at the wrong conclusions.

The Democratic Party is not the party of the working people, if it ever was, it was for about 5 years. It is the party leadership's job to "consistantly (sic) castrate our movement and allow(s) us all to get pummeled", PC has nothing to do with it.

The Democratic Party exists to ensure the continued existence of the Republican Party and vice-versa.

[patrice]

12. It's time for us to finance those who will speak Truth to Power, whether they will win or not.

We're listening tooooooooooooooo much to the professionals who pay their mortgages by dealing in political properties of various stripes with the highest priority ALWAYS placed on whether they can "win" or not. That priority subverts E - V - E - R - Y - T - H - I - N - G else and some of the stuff that winning subverts, and has even actually killed, is the Voice of the People.

Because of this, the People are now confused and do not even recognize their own Voice anymore. We need leaders who are so thoroughly immersed in REAL dialogue (not pre-packaged, engineered to customer spec dialogue), leaders who are so intimately immersed in Real dialogue with Real People that s/he does, In Fact, manifest all of our dimensions in who and what s/he is, in what s/he says and does. Our confusion, the result of our loss of Voice, makes this task exponentially more difficult.

Our problem right now is to find such people and to get enough ordinary people to invest in their **long-term** development.

[Donnachaidh]

15. +1000000! n/t

[rucky]

13. They're doing the screwing, we're doing the letting.

How does not supporting the screwees prevent the screwers from screwing us?

[Quantess]

53. How do we not let them? Is there a way that would work,

short of torches and pitchforks and crashing cessna planes into buildings?

[rucky]

56. Damn I wish I knew.

:shrug:

[Quantess]

57. Same here. I don't know, either.

Dissent is not as simple as it used to be.

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bluebear]

17. "ALL of 'em" - - - Yecch. Sorry, my love ends at blue dogs

[Atticus]

16. First of all, with 27 posts, you are immediately "suspect". Don't like that? Neither did I, but

that's the way it was and is.

Even if you are not a troll---and there is no basis to accuse you of being one---you are not known here. It is too early for you to lay a heavy-duty rant on DU. Once you have posted enough to give people some idea of who(and what) you are, this same post may get you some "attaboys" from some here. Others, however, no matter how many thousands of posts you may have, will tear you a new one for ignoring that this is "Democratic" Underground. Our Presidential candidates may have fallen short of your expectations, but they were, to a person, immeasurably better than the alternative in each case.

We try not to judge ourselves or our candidates against the "ideal". We live---and vote---in the real world.

Welcome to DU.

[divvy]

19. Well, you have formed another wrong opinion.

I have posted here for years. This is not my computer.

Why is it "correct" to attack me as a person while overlooking my argument? Don't you realize that I (as a person) am the one thing that you genuinely know the least about?

As we speak, this thread is being heavily moderated and edited. I have no intention of retyping how I have responded to your other positions. I will say that my first political activities began in 1970 when I became eligible for the draft.

Edit:

This is an interesting perspective from a current thread called "I just ran the numbers"

Quote:

With the economy sputtering--it's important to plan for a worst-case scenario--such
as long-term unemployment, loss of benefits or the closing of a family business. As many of us
know first hand--we've all ready had a worst-case scenario happen in our households.

A while back, I ran some numbers. I was trying to figure out how long we could survive
if my husband lost his job--since he is the major breadwinner. I happened to look up
my state's unemployment benefits, and I was shocked. The maximum benefit for a family
of four--is $1,692 per month. Considering that we would have no health benefits, and would
need to pay about $1,000 per month for COBRA--that would leave our family with $692 per month
to live on, plus savings.

End Quote


Did you realize that this is happening on OUR watch? Where IS our leadership? An ordinary DU poster can create this simple and compelling argument while our elected leaders can't even understand and speak to it?

[Atticus]

28. One, I did not attack you, as a person or otherwise. Two, I was simply trying to explain

to someone who APPEARED to be a new poster, why he might be getting a lot of negative replies.

Three, "not your computer", Gracie? WTF?

[Atticus]

41. That "WTF?" was a serious question. If you are not someone who just signed on

2-12-10 and currently has 30 posts, who are you? As noted here by others, the "internet tubes" allow us to sign on with our REAL ID from ANY computer. Why didn't you?

I'll wait.

[Atticus]

59. You're posting elsewhere. Why not here? nt

[MineralMan]

38. If you've posted here for years,

then you must know that you can sign onto DU from any computer on the planet. Really you can. You don't have to get a new screen name. Just log on with your real screen name.

Forget your password. They'll email it to you.

Sorry, but I don't believe that part of your story.

[Occulus]

22. To be honest, I've come to some of the same conclusions.

In particular, the ones about "we have to be above all that" and "we're better than that".

To be honest, the people saying those things come across to me in the same way my own mom did when I was in school. There were lots of people bullying me back then, and my parents' advice was just ignore it, because the bullies would eventually get bored and go away. I followed that advice, because I didn't want to "be like them".

Can you guess what happened? Here's a hint: they didn't get bored, and they didn't go away.

What we have to realize is that the Republican Party is the political equivalent of a pack of schoolyard bullies. Not only will they not go away if we ignore them, but in fact, they will become worse and worse. The only thing a bully understands is when the people they're bullying "stoop to their level".

We will continue to lose unless and until we use against them the exact same attitudes and tactics they're using against us, because that's all they understand. They see political goodwill and courtesy as a weakness. They can, have, and will continue to attack Democratic politicians because Democratic politicians try to "take the high road".

We should be willing to create lies about them from thin air. We should be willing to use every parliamentary tactic and House/Senate rule against them, whether they deserve it or not. We should be willing to "stoop to their level", because that's how you deal with bullies, be they on the schoolyard or in the halls of Congress.

[divvy]

26. Occulus for President ! You have my vote.

well said.

[DisgustedInMN]

61. Give the man (or woman) a cigar!

We have a winner.

I too was given the bullshit advice to "just ignore the bully(s). Tried it, got my ass kicked for years. Then I smartened up and fought back HARD, way harder that they dared think I could or would. I won't go into details, but suffice it to say, the bullies found another target. I never looked back nor do I regret the day I grew a spine.

Capitulating to Republicans is ALWAYS the wrong thing to do. Beat the bastards down and then beat them some more, just to keep them there. (Figuratively, not literally) This is political class warfare, and the sooner that reality sinks in, the better.

[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[stklurker]

42. 27 posts..

Horsehockey.. the people that post the most around here are the ones that say the same drivel over and over and over... If posting a lot is a measure of ideas, then we are all wasting our time here.. we need new ideas, not the same despair over and over again

[Atticus]

43. Thanks for your "insight". nt

[stklurker]

58. its saved for those who assume.. nt

[Atticus]

60. Have a good one. nt

[Bobbie Jo]

44. +1

[patrice]

20. P.S. Clue: Don't invest in, or otherwise take seriously, a candidate who will not talk policy detail

s with you and/or anyone you know.

[maryf]

27. How can we be so consistantly lousy at fighting

Keep asking those questions, keep reading and questioning more, keep talking to anyone, and welcome.

[Yurovsky]

31. I think the average right-winger grew up as a bully...

you know, took lunch money from smaller kids, made fun of children w/ disabilities, started fights on the playground (always against weaker and smaller kids), grew into the asshole jock in high school, etc.

Your basic assholes. They like to fight (well, except when it comes to the military, then most won't join), as long as they're pretty sure they'll win.

Most progressives, OTOH, grew up, for lack of a better description, "kinder and gentler". Most artists, musicians, scientists, intellectuals, etc were "different" growing up, the polar opposite of the bully. Most progressives aren't used to fighting and don't have a real taste for it. Sure there are exceptions, typically in the most strident activist circles, but this is usually a result of having been pushed too far, rather than being combative by nature.

Well, these fuckers on the right HAVE GONE TOO FAR, and it's time the left pushed back with a vengeance. We need to come at the GOP like it's a street fight and only one of us is going to be walking away from this. We've got the numbers for chrissakes, we just lack the backbone. Time to stiffen up our spine and kick some right-winger ass.

[earth mom]

29. WTF? How did Al Gore roll over and screw us all? He fought as hard as he could to become prez.

I can understand having issues with Obama as he has the chance to make HUGE changes and he's not- but to dis Al Gore? No fucking way.

I seriously think you are on the wrong website. :freak:

[randr]

30. It is hard to discuss important matters with dumb people

You just can't fix dumb! When you try to understand it on any intellectual level you only dumb down yourself.
I say no more discussions with anyone who is not playing with the same deck, or at least one with all the cards.

[rooftoprevolutionary]

32. You are too spot on...as many replies prove.

I totally agree with you.
It's absolutely fucked that we can't organize and stand up against the people that are ruining this country. And some of the responses to your post only prove that many people are all too happy to just sit back and watch candidates that they voted for stuff their pockets with corporate money and walk away from their public service duties to the yacht on the dock.
Wake up people!
Your senators, your governors, your representatives, your president have given you what?
Are you healthier, are you safer, are you richer, do you breathe cleaner air, do you have better jobs, because of any of these people in office today?
No major legislation has been passed in 40 years and we don't seem to give a shit.
We keep walking along the straight and narrow, looking up at the politicians like needy kids to a careless babysitter just wanting to get paid and be rid of the little shits.
What we need is for the people to move outside their little democrat and republican boxes. There is an alternative and that is to just be American. Fuck both sides, they're equally entrenched in garbage politics. But we don't have to be.
People can make change and can keep hope alive, a lot better than some of the people who merely smear those words on a campaign slogan.

[SlingBlade]

33. K & R And don't forget Mr. John, "Till every vote is counted" Kerry

Hypocrisy, It's a hell of a lot easier than principles and you can always
blame it on a F'ing Retarded Progressive of Lib'rul !

We'll outlast the bastards dude. Let em drown in their own sewage, By Themselves !

[ShortnFiery]

35. We have, in our beloved Democratic Party, "intellectual elitists" ...

People who are GOOD but not patient with those who are not blessed with above average IQs.

The vast majority of people who are blessed with AVERAGE IQ do not appreciate being condescended to by those who wear their high IQ scores on their sleeves. You know "the type" of democrats whom I'm referring to? Let's just say congress critter personalities such as that of Barney Frank and Allen Grayson may be "a gift" TO problem-solving but often also FAIL to present a good image of an average, "salt of the earth," DEMOCRAT. :shrug:

My point: In general, we must show INCREASED patience and basic civility with respect to fellow democrats who are not as educated and/or bright as ourselves. IMO, some of the most honorable people in this world are not necessarily blessed with super-high IQ scores.

[DCBob]

36. The main reason to support Democrats is to keep Republicans out...

We just had 8 years of Bush/Cheney that drove this country into the dirt. We cannot afford to let those kind of people anywhere near the WH ever again.

[ShortnFiery]

37. Yes, but our party has been infiltrated with "corporatists" who value the interests of

big business over the rights of the average laborer.

Corporatist democrats are essentially "in charge" and a big part of the reason that our party SEEMS to have no direction.

We stand for NOTHING. :(

[DCBob]

47. If thats the case, then its a lesser of two evils, with one side being far more evil...

Have you forgotten already what the Bush/Cheney era did?

[upi402]

39. Gore, Kerry, Obama = all corporatists

Kucinich wasn't even allowed in the nomination debates. Nuf said.

[MineralMan]

40. OK, then please let me be clear about my feelings..

Your attitude sucks. You've been disappointed? We've all been disappointed. When that happens, we get over it and get on with the job.

Don't like Obama? OK. How about working on the campaign of some progressive congressional candidate who you think believes as you do? How about getting active in local politics and working to elect progressives to local and state offices?

I've been doing that since 1965. I pay little attention to Presidential races, and not much more to Senate races, although I worked very, very hard to get Al Franken elected. This year, I'm working very, very hard to get Michele Bachmann unelected. I'm the chair of my local DFL precinct and a delegate to the next convention.

I'm 64 years old. I'll give up when I die.

We win some battles and we lose others. Half the population thinks differently that I do. More than half, actually. But sitting back and ignoring it ain't getting it done. At least I'll be able to die knowing I tried to do what was right, even if I didn't succeed.

So, you're welcome to give up. I don't actually care. If you're that easily discouraged, I doubt you were doing all that much in the first place. So long. See ya. Bye.

[HipChick]

45. well said..and thank you Mineral Man..

[MineralMan]

46. Thanks for the reply...

It seems to be an unpopular point of view among some here, though. It's a pity.

[Atticus]

48. Well said. nt

[divvy]

55. Well, I started in 1970 .....

This is not about being disappointed or even about any of other the trivial issues that you raise. This is about squandering the gift of opportunity, money, and the effort of each individual who cares enough to work a phone bank or go door to door time and time again. One short year ago we had a resounding victory across the board. Where are we today? Once again we are getting our hats handed to us by those who supported bush/cheney and caused the infernal mess of the last 8 years.

If any presidency was vulnerable to public scrutiny, it was the Bush / Cheney administration. By failing to push back against them with equal force and determination, our leadership has become a partner in their crime.

So, your argument of starting in 1965 means nothing to me. I have been involved 40 years compared to your 45. So what? This is 2010. Frankly, I don't believe for a second that it is possible for you to have been involved in even the past 3 presidental elections and not be the slightest bit discouraged today. We had a steamroller, the momentum, the votes, and our brilliant strategy seems to be putting us all in the ditch one more time. It is not a resource problem. It has been a reoccuring thinking problem.

A very large part of the Republican party declared virtual war on us a very long time ago. After 30 years of the likes of the bfee, Limbaugh and Buchannan, we still believe that if we will only be "nice" to them, that they will somehow magically become reasonable? This strategy has not worked at all during the past 3 decades.

Did you happen to notice?

[jpak]

49. Please allow me to be clear about my true feelings about this thread.

:rofl:

[gleaner]

51. You have it right .....

In some ways we have been like Alger Hiss. He thought it was more important to fight back like a gentleman than get down and dirty with HUAC. He fought, but they fought dirty and he went to prison. He lost his work, his life as he knew it disappeared. I think that is what a lot of us have been doing. Trying to take the high road when what we should be doing is engaging the other side more and exposing them for who they are instead of waiting and hoping that somehow the world is going to notice. We need to push back.

[blondeatlast]

54. Al gore "rolled over?" holy crap--I've no need to read on. Thanks for playing. nt