It bugs me that people can just fly around in small craft

[LisaM]

I know the most recent one was not an accident, but there was an accident yesterday where a small plane crashed into a neighborhood, and a few days ago, a private helicopter went down killing not just the man who'd paid for it, but a five-year old child as well. And recently, there was a case where a young man stole a plane and flew it to Orcas Island, where he's been committing crimes ever since.

I really think we need to look into this. I see small planes flying around all the time, and it's nerve wracking.

[Merchant Marine]

1. Ban private aviation?

It's not like they're licensed or anything...

[farmout rightarm]

2. You probably think small planes are horribly dangerous because you hear about every crash

that happens and that is precisely because compared with automobile wrecks and deaths, they are -rare-.

It's very easy to demonstrate that by any statistical measure the most dangerous part of a flight in an airplane is the drive to the airport.

[Posteritatis]

141. Seriously. People need to get the slightest shred of a clue about risk assessment. (nt)

[Flaneur]

3. It bugs me that people can just drive around in cars.

Not to mention boats.

Ah, well, it's a free country...sort of.

[farmout rightarm]

6. +1

Well said.

[timeforpeace]

42. I blame Bernoulli's principle.

[farmout rightarm]

49. That bastard's responsible for carburetors, too.

:silly:
:D

[MineralMan]

55. I thought that was Jesse Venturi...

[farmout rightarm]

61. HAW HAW

Good one!
:D

[MineralMan]

64. Don't even get me started on Joseph Lucas...the inventor of

the lost spark.

[Mopar151]

104. The True Prince of Darkness

Though he had some acolytes at Ford....

[AsahinaKimi]

153. "the inventor of the lost spark "

Why does that sound like the title to an INDIANA JONES movie?

[Xicano]

116. I blame Bernoulli's principle for this

[LanternWaste]

67. It bugs me that people

It bugs me that people are quite uncivil and rather rude to little more than the mere opinion of another individual. Ah, well, it's a free country... sort of.

(Six of one half a dozen of the other...)

[bertman]

145. It bugs me that people title a reply

It bugs me that people title a reply then repeat it in the body of the post.

But it's a free country so I just attribute it to keyboard stutter.

:eyes:

[LanternWaste]

155. I attribute it to cut and paste...

I attribute it to cut and paste...

[bertman]

156. Ahhhh, I understand now.

Ahhhh, I understand now.

:hi:

[damntexdem]

88. And then there are all those people walking around in shoes!

It really bothers me. And it just isn't safe: why any of those people could kick me with those hard-soled shoes!!!!!!

[flvegan]

4. What do you think about driving?

You know, people just hurtling around in small craft, but attached to the ground.

[KansDem]

27. I've run out of gas many times while driving.

I pull over to the side of the road and stop. I usually say a few choice words whiling getting the gas can out of the trunk...

[LisaM]

32. Why?

You should never let the gas get below half a tank. My SO and I argue about this all the time.

[KansDem]

37. I once had an 1984 Buick that would run out of gas when the gauge showed 1/4 full...

Ran out of gas four times in the eight years or so that I owned it.

But I was really referring to the fact that flying a plane and driving a car are two very different activities requiring different mindsets. What is an inconvenience in one is deadly in the other.

But not letting the gas get below half a tank is a good rule to follow, particularly in cold weather...

[vadawg]

40. or you should carry extra gas, one thing i alway have is an extra can to get me that extra

few miles if i need it...

[Codeine]

54. Never let it get below half a tank?

Why? As long as your gauge works you can go until you need it filled.

[LisaM]

63. One, I don't want to run out of gas

and two, we were taught that the car got better gas mileage that way. Also, in winter, it's good not to let it get too empty because you don't want condensation in the fuel tank that could cause cracks (not that I've ever known that to happen; we were just taught that).

[Codeine]

68. Better mileage?

With more fuel weight? A bit counter-intuitive and highly doubtful.

[vadawg]

78. most importantly keep half a tank at least just in case

you never know when you may need to get somewhere in an emergency. :) can i say zombies

[damntexdem]

90. I think that one should never drive with less than a full tank.

Or more.

;-)

[Edweird]

127. Actually most cars these days are fuel injected and the pump is in the gas tank.

The gas cools the pump. Running on less than half a tank often allows the pump to overheat which leads to premature failure. Replacing a fuel pump in the gas tank is an unbelievable pain in the ass - I've done it a few times. So, she's right, just for the wrong reasons.

[Shell Beau]

114. What? Really?

I don't ride mine down to "E", but I don't fill up when I am on half a tank. And I know exactly how far that half a tank will go. I love my Honda.

[blueamy66]

139. Have you ever run out of gas

while flying?

You seem to end up nose first in the earth.

[AndyA]

5. There's a small, private airport less than 5 miles away from my house.

Sometimes the planes fly by so low that the pictures on the walls rattle. I get angry when this happens in the middle of the night, and it wakes me up. I've always thought there should be a law against this.

I'm not near any regular flight path, so thankfully this doesn't happen often, but you have to wonder what's going on with all those people flying private planes. :shrug:

[farmout rightarm]

9. I wish I had a dollar for every guy who moved into a house near an airport and then

bitched and moaned about the noise.

[AndyA]

25. And I wish I had a dollar for every guy who interjected themselves

into something by making a rude, inappropriate, and unnecessary remark.

:eyes:

[farmout rightarm]

50. Replying directly to a post is "interjecting"....well, gee...color me

interjecting.




:eyes:

[AndyA]

95. Emphasis on RUDE and UNNECESSARY.

You aren't...really... :eyes:

[ProgressiveProfessor]

38. Call the FAA and complain. They should be able to tell if the planes are flying below minimums

If they are not then shut up and deal with it. You chose to buy near an airport.

[Art_from_Ark]

117. Near an airport?

The poster said he lives nearly 5 miles away from a private airport. That's not particularly near. My folks live less than 3 miles from a municipal airport, but there is no noise from small aircraft coming from or going to that airport. There is, however, noise from an occasional jet that is going to or coming from a regional airport about 15 miles away.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

119. The airport traffic area is defined as a 5 mile radius

[PacerLJ35]

122. That can depend...especially if you're talking about non-fixed-wing aircraft

FAR Part 91 specifically states that helicopters can fly at any altitude so long as they are not being operated in a reckless manner. It states that for enroute operations, fixed-wing aircraft must fly 1000 feet above "congested" areas (pretty much defined as a city or town), and as low as 500 feet (slant range) from any person, structure or vessel in "non-congested" areas (non-urban areas). Those rules do not specifically apply to aircraft in the process of taking off or landing.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

125. Hmmm the ATA is defined as a 5 mile radius from an operating control tower

Altitude requirements vary depending on the kinds of airspace and type of aircraft.

[PacerLJ35]

149. It varies

For example the Class D airspace around the base I fly from is 5.6 nm

[Art_from_Ark]

142. Still, 5 miles should be far enough away to avoid noise from a private airport

especially the kind of noise that causes houses to vibrate. If not, there should at least be a noise ordinance in effect.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

146. Actually is the aircraft is being operated in accordance with FAA rules, local ordinances are

meaningless. Most pilots and airports still try to be good neighbors, but sometimes there is no pleasing some people. Number of parallel examples like city folks buying out in the country and then start to complain about farm smells and dirt roads.

[jberryhill]

105. Passing a law against getting angry and waking up at night won't help /nt

[LWolf]

144. They're going places.

My ex is a private pilot. When I was married, we frequently flew small planes. There are regulations about how low planes are allowed to fly.

I lived for 30 years near an air force base and an aerospace manufacturing and flight testing plant. For 5 of those years, I lived less than 2 miles from the facility used for all that flight testing.

THOSE were low flying, loud, house-shaking planes.

[Hello_Kitty]

Well, people drive around in giant metal boxes at high speeds too. eom

[johnnie]

7. Same with me...

....except with automobiles. What's up with that?

[Ganja Ninja]

8. You can't just fly around.

Not legally any way. You have to be licensed. Your plane has to be registered and inspected. You have to file a flight plan. From what I hear it's a real hassle to own and fly a private plane.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

41. Flight plans are not mandatory and you can in the vast majority of the US just fly around.

Its really expensive to own and operate a plane. The hassle is moderate

[MineralMan]

57. Sure you can. Except in controlled airspace, which is usually around

cities and airports, you're free to fly around as you please. Lots of people do it. It's part of the fun of flying in private aircraft. Most of the airspace in the USA is uncontrolled.

[backwoodsbob]

86. I ride in my buddies plane all the time

he flies me to places I want to see..no flightplan

he just askes where I want to go and I point and he goes :shrug:

[Name removed]

109. Deleted message

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[Zoeisright]

10. I agree.

In the summer, we get lots of small planes from a nearby tiny airport. They go back and forth and back and forth, creating an immense amount of noise pollution. Why do those fricking things have to be so loud?

[farmout rightarm]

12. We take off the mufflers to annoy whiners.

ha ha ha

[MindPilot]

23. That's only a nice side effect.

The real reason we take of the mufflers is so the chemtrails disperse more effectively.

[farmout rightarm]

24. Oh crap, that's not Crypto-secret any more?

:silly:
:rofl:

[cherokeeprogressive]

16. Was the airport there when you decided to buy the house? n/t

[AndyA]

30. I'm guessing you meant to reply to my post, since the one you replied to

doesn't have anything to do with what you wrote.

Yes, the airport was there when I bought my house, and we did consider that before buying it. Since the normal flight paths go in different directions, and since it is 5 miles away, it didn't seem like it would be a problem.

And how far away do you need to go to get away from an airport? What is a safe distance? 10 miles? 25? 50? It's not like I bought a house at the end of the runway.

If the people flying low overhead at 4 in the morning aren't smart enough to realize they are disturbing hundreds of people by doing so, they probably aren't smart enough to be operating a plane.

[MercutioATC]

35. ...and if people aren't smart enough to realize that planes fly low so they can see the airport,

they probably aren't smart enough to be commenting on the politeness (or lack thereof) of pilots.

[vadawg]

45. rofl, pretty good point, how else can they land if they dont get lower

i get buzzed a lot by some operation flying WW2 aircraft, dosent bother me in the slightest and to be honest it kinda fades into the background eventually.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

43. At small fields there is no "normal" flight paths except when in the traffic pattern

You might want to check the altitude restrictions in and around that field. It will surprise you.

[MindPilot]

46. That plane going over at four in the morning

could very well be delivering transplant organs, medical supplies, critical parts for live-saving equipment or any other altruistic mission. But no doubt the guy needing the liver can wait a few more hours while you sleep in.

[cherokeeprogressive]

47. Well you guessed wrong. Imagine that.

I was responding to the poster who said this:

"In the summer, we get lots of small planes from a nearby tiny airport. They go back and forth and back and forth, creating an immense amount of noise pollution. Why do those fricking things have to be so loud?"

My question was completely pertinent and appropos.

Anything else you'd like to guess about?

[AndyA]

93. Sorry, I didn't notice that earlier.

Bad day?

[Statistical]

103. Normal flight path?

The plane I rent must be broken it can fly in any direction. North, South, East, West, sometimes even diagonally.

Also generally pilots fly low near airports because .... it is harder to land when you fly high (not to be confused with flying while high).

[MineralMan]

120. Well, I'm over 10 miles from MSP (Minnesota).

We're in the flight pattern for holding planes. They then descend just over my house. I enjoy hearing them at night. We're also on the approach pattern for the St. Paul Downtown Airport. Every morning at precisely 5:57 A. M. A single engine plane flies over our house on the descent to land there. Every morning. It's our alarm clock. A couple of times, we didn't hear the plane, but it started up a couple of days later. I guess the owner had the flu or something.

We're also two blocks from the main train tracks running from the Twin Cities to Duluth. We get to hear the big freight trains pass by. It's very comforting to hear them.

[PacerLJ35]

124. Light airplane traffic patterns can be as low at 700-800 feet

And depending on how the pilot enters/exits the traffic pattern, they can easily be that low at 5 miles away. As for the time of day, there are generally no restrictions for operations at public airports, much like the public roads. You don't seem to complain when the garbage truck makes its run at 5am? Why get mad at a small airplane? You are presuming they are just up for a "joy ride", but in reality if someone is flying at 4am, it's likely a commercial flight (commercial flights don't have to be airline flights...could be charter, business, or even police/EMS flights).

[Blue_In_AK]

11. You're not serious, right?

In Alaska, if we didn't have small planes, both private and commercial, we couldn't get anywhere.

[LisaM]

13. I can choose to stay away from a road

But I've heard enough about small plane crashes in the last few days to just really annoy me. One of them hit a day care center! Luckily no one was hurt.

[PacerLJ35]

131. So will you always stay away from a road?

Plan on living in a cabin away from civilization for the rest of your life? I didn't think so. Next time you eat at a restaurant, go shopping, or even go for a walk along your neighborhood road, realize that more people are killed by errant drivers in those situations on a montly basis than are killed in an entire decade due to aircraft.

[Canuckistanian]

14. An all those people running around with scissors, too

It's a public menace.

[Ron Green]

15. Hey, what happened to the Rocket Cars we were all supposed to have by 1980?

I saw it on the cover of the "World of the Future" comic book in 1957. Everybody was driving around above the City of the Future in these cool bumper-car-looking rocket cars.

1980 came and went, and we didn't get them! What did we get? Reagan! What a gyp.

[Mopar151]

106. You were not looking in the right place

No shortage of ego with Ky Michaelson, but I've seen a couple of his creations go in person - wow.

221 mph in a 1/4 mile.

[Lex]

17. Planes don't kill people. People kill people.

Or something.

[madinmaryland]

29. Uh-oh!! This thread is going to end up in the Hangar!!

[hedgehog]

18. If small planes are oulawed, only outlaws will have small planes.

[hobbit709]

19. 2004 statistics 440 fatalities

That's 36/month. Traffic fatalities 36,000+-that's 3000/month

[rcrush]

98. So the obvious solution is to ban boats!

[MindPilot]

20. I feel the same way about motorcycles. So there.

[tranche]

21. Funny picturing you flinching everytime a plane flys by.

I don't think "people flying around" is as dangerous as you may believe.

[MineralMan]

22. What else bugs you that people do? What do you do that

bugs other people, do you suppose?

[LisaM]

34. My SO's family has a cabin, NOT near an airport

but near the water, and sometimes the float planes come in so close it sounds as if they're going to take the roof off the house.

It's actually pretty scary.

[MineralMan]

36. Yah, those float planes don't need an airport.

They get to take off and land from lakes and stuff. Comes with the territory.

One of the lakes I fish regularly has a cabin (read large house) on it. There's a classic old float plane tied up to a dock there. Every once in a while, the guy who owns it flies it off the lake, flies around for a while and then lands again. It's pretty cool. One time, he taxied about 20 feet from my boat. I waved at the pilot. He waved back.

How about those outboard motors, then? They're kinda noisy, too, and the wakes from the fishing boats. Awful. And then, those fishermen come right up and cast their lines near people's private docks. Someone should put a stop to it, huh?

Oh, wait...the lake belongs to the people of the state. Everyone gets to use it...not just the rich folks who can afford a place on the lake. Sorry 'bout that.

[Name removed]

51. Deleted sub-thread

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[MineralMan]

53. You're afraid of noises?

I'm sorry, but are you sure you're being serious with this?

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

26. And driving cars... and posting on the internet...

[pipi_k]

28. Not to mention people running around coughing and sneezing and

dripping infected snot all over the place.

They either don't realize, or don't care, that there are others out there with compromised immune systems who want to live their lives and do their business as well.


I'll bet more people die from infectious diseases being passed around than there are people who die from small plane crashes...

[lib2DaBone]

31. Don't say that too loud... TSA would LOVE to ban General Aviation..

The TSA'a grip on total control and movement of American Citizens is almost complete.

They have the funding and backing of the Federal Government to the tune of Billions a year. As one TSA Supervisor told me, "We have the funding.. and we are going to spend EVERY PENNY".

The TSA and Homeland Security becoming (possibly already are) the largest Bureaucracy in this country.

They would love nothing better than to close down all those pesky private pilots and uppity citizens who think they can can fly around the country at will...

[farmout rightarm]

48. The REAL scary thing is that they have a lot of Democrats and DUers especially

on their side.

[PacerLJ35]

126. I know...common misperception is that private airplane owners = rich fat cats

I have several friends that own their own airplanes...many of the aircraft on the used market you can buy for $40,000 or less...and airplane loans can be had for 10 year terms, making it like having a car payment. Granted, you won't own an airplane on minimum wage or even a teacher's salary, but if you're middle class, it's attainable if that's what you want to sink your money into. Some people choose boats, some choose RVs, some choose other toys. And many choose to own a small light airplane. I hope to be one of them once I pay off my car.

[woo me with science]

59. Yes. This pisses me off.

I spent my childhood waiting for the time when we would all have inexpensive, mass-produced personal jetpacks/flight devices. The way things are now, you know that can never happen. If there is ever a cheap option for personal flying it will be through some massive, controlled public system, not something that lets you strap on your jetpack and go wherever you want.

That was only partly tongue in cheek....Some dreams die hard. :cry: At least don't take away the personal aircraft some *do* have.

[proteus_lives]

33. This has an authoritarian reek.

[TommyO]

39. There are far more cars driving around causing far more deaths

Don't over-react, don't give in to those who further want to limit our civil rights for the illusion of safety.

[Tailormyst]

44. I think this is one of the oddest posts I have ever seen

Not even sure how to respond because I can't fathom that this is not a satire.

[A HERETIC I AM]

56. Ranks right up there with some of the dumbest threads ever posted, doesn't it? n/t

[Name removed]

52. Deleted message

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[spanone]

58. it bugs me that people can just whip around in small cars

[DainBramaged]

60. (sigh)

:banghead:

[Codeine]

62. Dude, she's a Lions fan.

Ya gotta cut them some slack.

[MineralMan]

65. Why, that's enough to drive anyone barmy...

I didn't even know it was possible.

[kestrel91316]

66. It bugs me that people can just drive around in small private cars, too.

Ground transportation should be limited to buses and trains and subways.

[Pithlet]

69. I love the people comparing cars to planes.

When cars can fall out of the sky on houses or day care centers or crashed on purpose into buildings causing them to instantly burst into massive flames, the comparison is the same. I'm not necessarily for banning general aviation. Just pointing out how stupid the comparison is.

[Rebubula]

73. LOLZ

Do you pay attention to the real world???

Recently a man drove his truck into a gas station in an effort to injure the attendant. MANY people have been run over on purpose. Cars crash into houses all the time and sometimes folks are killed.

More than 40,000 people die in auto accidents every year....the comparison is more than apt.

Couple of Links for you...
http://www.ktla.com/news/landing/ktla-car-preschool,0,2518097.story
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34259310/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/

[Pithlet]

75. LOLz did you see the part where I said I didn't favor banning GA? Lulz

Cars are not the same as planes. Duh. It's a stupid argument. There have got to be better ways to argue for GA.

[farmout rightarm]

80. Sorry, but the stupid argument is not coming from where you say it is.

...

[Pithlet]

82. Um, what part of cars are not the same as planes is wrong, exactly?

:shrug:

[farmout rightarm]

79. Horse. Shit. There are hundreds of instances a year where cars or trucks go off the highway

and crash into houses. The comparison is COMPLETELY valid.

[Pithlet]

81. Cars are smaller than planes. They don't geneally go nearly as fast. And...

Most imortantly... They don't fly! COMPLETELY invalid. You can take a plane and, intentionally or not, do a lot more damage with it.

[Name removed]

89. Deleted message

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[Pithlet]

96. Yeah. But they fly! Through the air. RWAAAAAAAEWRR!!!! Whee! Look at the sky!

Cars. They don't. They follow a path called roads. Following me, so far? Good. People who want to avoid the risks against cars can stay away from roads. Far away if they want to. They can use this thing called public transportation. Where can a person go if they want to avoid the risk of an airplane? Where are the airplane roads? In other words, someone who's decided "Gee, airplanes are fun I wanna learn how!" basically makes everyone unwitting sitting ducks of risk in his or her pursuit, and there's not a thing any of us can do about it. And when they get mad about their taxes, well... We can at least avoid roads if we wanted to. That's the difference. Again, not that I want to ban GA. Just explaining why it's a bad argument to compare the two. Apples and oranges. And what caused the damage to the Murrah building? Was it the van? Or the BOMB in it?



ETA I do think that because of that fundamental difference, the public as sitting duck aspect of GA, I think a big responsibility of general safety of the public falls on the GA, even if there are more car deaths. I don't like the attitude in this thread that GA supporters are taking. The "Eh, it's the same as cars, people who are worrieid are stilly and stupid!" If that's the true attitude of the GA community, then I would rethink my position. But I don't suspect it is.

[Name removed]

107. Deleted message

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[Pithlet]

111. I think you're just having a kneejerk response to my posts without truly understanding my point.

[Name removed]

112. Deleted message

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[Pithlet]

113. It's pretty straightforward actually.

Both are completely different when it comes to method of transport, AND how they impact the public in terms of risk. It's simple, really. :shrug:

[Name removed]

115. Deleted sub-thread

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[The Velveteen Ocelot]

129. Uh... remember Timothy McVeigh?

The guy who drove a truck up to a building and caused it to instantly burst into massive flames? And how about the Khobar Towers bombing?

[Pithlet]

134. Okay, bombs aren't the same either?

:shrug:

Okay, here's the deal. I'm not getting nasty pile on the OP. Would it have been so hard for anyone to explain the actual odds of being a direct victim of a general aviation disaster? That would have made more sense to me. Because planes crashing into buildings and daycare centers and all the crashes you hear about every other day on the local news (it seems like it here anyway, lately) can seem frightening to someone not in the know. It's human nature. It wouldn't have been that hard. It would have been a better argument and it would have made more sense. But that's not the internet way, it seems.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

135. I did. There are about 500 general aviation fatalities per year.

An average of only 8 of these fatalities are people on the ground. Your chances of being killed by an airplane crashing on you are .06 per million per year. http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:vlsCl5nXKNkJ:dutiosc.twi.tudelft.nl/~risk/index.php%3Foption%3Dcom_docman%26task%3Ddoc_download%26gid%3D26%26%26Itemid%3D13+aviation+fatalities+ground&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a

So I wouldn't lose too much sleep over that possibility.

[Pithlet]

138. See? That's a perfect response to the OP.

That makes a lot more sense and imparts a lot more information than "Gee let's ban cars..."

[PacerLJ35]

130. It might not be a direct comparison, but the point is valid...

Many more people die from car accidents than airplane accidents. Many more bystanders are killed by vehicles than airplanes. Even the worst aviation category as far as safety is concerned (general aviation) is still far safer than motor vehicles.

Pilots are required to attain a minimum standard of training and pass an FAA-administered evaluation that is far more stringent than motor vehicle drivers. In many states, getting a driving license is simply a formality, and the "renewal" process is a joke in most states. Aircraft pilots are required to AT LEAST receive a biannual flight review to continue to fly, and that's the minimum. Commercially rated pilots are required to receive annual (or semi-annual) evaluations. Even maintenance is highly regulated. Private aircraft are at least required to get an annual inspection and have the deficient items fixed prior to the next flight. Commerically operated aircraft either receive 100 hour inspections or isochronal phase inspections. The states that actually have (many don't) a vehicle inspection program are usually more interested in working lights and emissions than they are about the actual mechanical condition of the car.

The point stands...being afraid of aircraft flying through the sky by privately operated owners is a giant overreaction.

[Pithlet]

137. More people die yes. Because there are more cars. What is the proportional risk?

I'm sure it's not very high, yes. I'm not saying I'm worried about it to the extent that the OP is, or that I'm avdocating a ban. I'm not. I just hate the pile on and the questionable arguments. It probably is a bit of an overreaction. If people had made the civil and reasonable argument that the risk is greater of dying in a car accident? I'd totally agree with that. But that's not what people were saying. My point stands that a person flying a plane poses a different risk to the public than a person driving a car. And when they have an accident, the impact can indeed be different. Yeah, we encounter a lot more cars in our life, but we can make choices to mitigate that risk if we choose. We can't with GA. Someone flies a plane, I can't do anything about it or protect myself against it at all. Can't buy a safer plane or move to a place with safer plane roads. Yeah, the actual risks may be small. But the feeling of helplesness isn't entirely unfounded.

That plane accident yesterday with the Tesla employees would have been a different story had the daycare been full. The fact that there are far fewer planes and they're going to be far likelier to hit the ground than a building does make a difference. But it's not a completely unfounded risk. And it is different than cars. The snarky comment about cars didn't make sense. The simple fact is don't have the potential to fall out of the sky onto buildings.

[PacerLJ35]

151. You can break it down many ways...

Hours per fatal accident, air miles per fatal accident, whatever you want...every time aircraft come up as being safer.

On an anecdotal basis, I've been flying professionally for 14 years, and I have had a few emergency situations, but all were easily handled and I never feared for my life. On the other hand, I've had at least two accidents (one hydroplaning accident and another being hit by someone else), and numerous close calls that nearly called for a change of pants while driving cars. While you could say I spend more time in a car, it's pretty clear to me that my life is in greater danger in a motor vehicle than an airplane.

There's a lot of truth to the old saying that a pilot's life is at greater risk driving to and from the airport than actually in the airplane.

As for your comparison that you can mitigate risk with cars but you're helpless against a raining storm of falling airplanes, I say you'd be just as helpless if you were eating lunch in a restaurant and some drunk guy ran over the curb and nailed your window-side table...that happens a lot more often than an airplane hitting a day care. I can think of exactly one time an airplane hit a day care...the ONE example you provided. On the other hand, I can remember countless stories of people being hurt or killed by cars running out of control and into buildings, parks, or crowds.

[Urban Prairie]

70. I see birds flying around all of the time and some of them have caused bird flu..

I say we shoot all of them down.

Mosquitoes too, some cause malaria.

...and bats, some are rabid.

Rocky the flying squirrel is okay though.

[Rebubula]

71. GOLLY

all those scary planes up there just taunting gravity! The horror

Unrec'd for knee jerk stupidity. 10s of thousands die EVERY YEAR on the road due to car accidents.


A few incidents do not a pattern make...

[chrisa]

84. It's a parody.

I'm pretty sure the OP was parodying knee-jerk ban-happiness that comes along with every tragedy.

[liberal N proud]

72. Small airplanes = cars of the sky

I would love to own a small plane and free me from the hassles of flying commercially. It would also free me to make more trips to see my aging parents who live 14 hours away by car.

I suppose if a crazy driver slams their car into a building filled with people you will want us to look into banning cars as well?

[snooper2]

74. You know, if we can just get the little punks riding skateboards...

We would all be safer... :rofl:

[guitar man]

76. :(

[TeeYiYi]

77. It really bugs me how many people have LOUD lawnmowers on weekends. :P

TYY

[chrisa]

85. I wish there was a remote or something to deactive those.

Or throwing a bunch of rocks on their lawn does the trick.

[TeeYiYi]

94. And another thing...

... Why do they have to fire up their chainsaw decibel free-fun riders so EARLY? It's the weekend, for hell's sake. Sleep in and mow later! What's the effen' hurry to get started at the crack of dawn?...

TYY :hippie:

[rcrush]

101. I could steal your riding lawnmower and go and run down the old folks in the park!

[MineralMan]

121. What time would it be OK for me to mow my lawn on the

weekend, please? I like to do it in the morning before it gets hot. So, you tell me what time is OK with you, and I'll wait until then. How late do you sleep?

[Whisp]

83. or drive around wherever they like. :P

silliness.
absolute silliness.

the way to stop things like this (and it just can't be totally eliminated because people are unpredictable) is to have a healthy and fair society - which the US does not have.

[treestar]

99. There is a big difference with driving

If anything goes wrong, it does not have to be fatal.

Planes can have nothing go wrong. Very little or no room for error.

[Name removed]

108. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

133. Oh, phooey. Things go wrong in airplanes all the time; they are machines

and machines break. But ordinarily the problems are entirely manageable. Among other things I've had a partial engine failure after takeoff; a fire in the electrical system; a couple of radio failures; an instrument failure at night; and various and sundry engine malfunctions. In all cases I managed to land with little or no fanfare and without a scratch on me or the airplane.

[Codeine]

136. A normal light aircraft

can be surprisingly forgiving in an emergency. These aren't like fighter jets.

[damntexdem]

87. Would you take the civil out of civil aviation?

Let's see, that would leave: (1) the military, and (2) airlines, i.e., corporate aviation. So you only have a problem with private aviation not in the hands of corporations?

[guardian]

91. It bugs me people are allowed to ride bicycles.

n/t

[rcrush]

102. It bugs me that I'm not allowed to punch Critical Mass riders in teh face when they block traffic

[ProgressiveProfessor]

118. I have mega loud (115 db) dual horns that I use to advise bike riders that they are being a PITA

tends to blow them off their rides, makes cager soccer moms drop their coffee, and small children wail

[conscious evolution]

92. You should buy this house then

Seriously,what are the odds of having TWO planes crash into your house
http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:0R-csZDIjo5S6M:http://static.rnw.nl/migratie/www.radionetherlands.nl/images/assets/13640025

[Tim01]

97. It bugs me that people have any freedom. nt

[Statistical]

100. Compare the number of flying fatalities to number of auto fatalities.

After you finish banning privately owned autos we can talk about banning general aviation.

[Odin2005]

110. Authoritarian whining FAIL.

[TransitJohn]

123. It bugs me more that morons can just drive around in small craft.

Running people over while talking on their phone. We really ought to look in to this.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

128. ROFL! What a dumb remark.

I've been a flight instructor for years. Yes, there are accidents occasionally, but flying is really very safe. Almost 40,000 people die in car accidents every year -- in contrast to only approximately 500 general aviation fatalities per year. Gonna stop driving?

[Dappleganger]

132. If only TENURE was outlawed!

[Posteritatis]

140. THERE OUGHTA BE A LAW!

Worst response to, well, any incident.

[madinmaryland]

143. UN RECCED. Try living a couple miles from a Major airport or even working

in NYC.

Very lame post.

[dysfunctional press]

147. "I see small planes flying around all the time, and it's nerve wracking."

have you considered seeing a professional for some help with that...?

the planes are a fact of life, and aren't going to go away.

[beevul]

148. Godzilla facepalm.

[TwilightGardener]

150. Geez, don't ever live on an Air Force base. You'd shit your pants on a daily basis.

[PacerLJ35]

152. I work on one, and we've lost about 1-2 people a year to auto/motorcycle accidents

But the last time we lost an airplane from this base was over 20 years ago...and that's military flying, in low-level environments, etc, which is much more dangerous than normal flying.

[Throd]

154. I fondly remember watching F-4s do "touch-n-go's" as a child.

One moment they would be silently suspended, the next moment they would crack the sky.