It's a MAN's car. Buy it b/c you're angry & frightened. (GREAT guy response to Charger ad)

[nashville_brook]

(this is so good it needs it's own thread -- new DU poster DirkGently posted this in another thread on the topic of the Dodge Charger Superbowl ad-- brook)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=385&topic_id=433712&mesg_id=434058

Liberated car guy here

... and I've got to say I think the rebuttal video is dead-on, and I don't get the defensive "guy" responses at all. Slice it any way you want, but the Charger commercial was a puling, whiny (dare we say "bitchy?") appeal to the Oppressed Male cult, and a casual, careless slam on women to boot. Awww -- he has to *shave?* And yeah, it targets women and suggests they're emasculating. Anyone waving the tired little bloody shirt of the Oppression of Putting the Seat Down is looking to bring gender gripes into play.

Those tired, dead eyes. The washed out colors. Here are men who have been utterly castrated, somehow, by ... what was it ... ' taking your call?' Lame, lame, lame. My reaction as a guy is that men ought to be embarrassed and annoyed by the implication that 1) it's just haaaard to put your underwear in the hamper, and 2) women are somehow the ones making us bathe and speak civilly to people, because all we really are are little boys who want to run around barefoot eating off dirty plates and eating our own poo. Really? Because I'd say if putting on clean underwear and going to work is too hard for you, you've got manhood issues that no car is going cure.

Which leads to the second part of my reaction, which is the cynical marketing logic behind Dodge, which seems hellbent on producing, in the 21st century, the cars America really wanted . . . in 1955. Ugly, heavy, technologically deficient stoplight racers that look mean (in a pudgy school bully kind of way) sound obnoxious, and from a performance standpoint, do nothing particularly well beyond squealing the tires. So how does Dodge sell it? By making a whiny, emotional appeal -- to men. Think about that. Isn't rationality supposed to be part of the male mystique? We're supposed to make our buying decisions based on cold, hard, facts, not naked, quivering emotion.

And yet, the whole push here is that the world is just too buttoned down and grownup and pc for us burly dudes -- so we're gonna pout and buy the most ridiculous, useless penis replacement car we can find? "Don't buy our car because it's good -- buy it because it's the kind of petulant, self-entitled, boyish choice that life unfairly punishes you for after age 30 or so."

"What better way to express your peevishness to the world than to spend $30,000 on a two-ton, 17- mpg sedan with an ass like a thyroidal wombat sold as a "performance car" in 2010?"

Sorry, but I just smirked at this ad, and Dodge's transparent attempt to sell a pointless car on this, "Be a man. Buy a stupid car. That'll show 'em" beat. It's richly deserving of mockery, both from women and adults in general.

[MercutioATC]

1. Much ado about nothing.

Many people (me, included) found the Charger ad to be funny...BECAUSE of its stereotyping.

I thought the rebuttal "ad" on YouTube was cute, too.


Some people need to stop taking everything (especially themselves) so seriously.

[nashville_brook]

3. it's such a crappy car, the only way men will buy it is if their penises depend on it.

that's the money, right there.

[MercutioATC]

6. I'm not too fond of them, either.

I kinda like the retro styling of the Mustang/Camaro/Charger, but I don't like how they drive or the fit and finish.

[ddeclue]

12. It's NOT a crappy car and either the Challenger OR the Charger are excellent autos.

The Challenger will cost you an extra 10 grand though. I bought my Charger R/T before they had a Challenger out there. It has been a very reliable car thus far and is an excellent and sophisticated ride.

[DirkGently]

19. Have you had the auto transmission problem?

Guy at work has one (base model). It wouldn't go into gear, and they told him it was a "piece of pink plastic" in the auto shifter. Fixed under warranty but ... ?

[ddeclue]

23. nope.. not one problem so far. I don't have the base model...mine's the R/T hemi model.

[nashville_brook]

21. fine for straight and fast. that's not *my* style, but to each their own.

Florida has lots of opportunity for straight and fast. i had a peak experience in a BMW 328 on I-95 one early sunday morning following a chick on a sport bike. there wasn't much traffic, and i've never made time like that before or since.

[ddeclue]

25. not really trying to run it flat out - I take care of my cars..I still have my 95 Z28 convertible

if I want to go fast I'll go rent a plane.

[1monster]

42. Thirty years ago, perhaps, when my then boyfriend took me on a ride up to 110 mph on A1A...

But these days A1A, US1, and I-95 are all bumper to bumper traffic almost all the time.

And we've both become older and wiser. No one needs to go 110 mph just for kicks.

[nashville_brook]

95. totally agree. i lost a friend on South Tropical Trail due to speed-stupidity.

[Papagoose]

107. I agree

Both are actually very well built vehicles. I love the Challenger, but it's not practical for my needs so I just admire from afar.

[Kalyke]

97. I'm female and would much rather own this than an ugly, bubble-looking ToFallAparta.

:shrug:

[MineralMan]

2. Well, the thread over there seemed to cover it pretty well.

I'm not sure a new thread is needed that forces people to jump to another thread to understand what this thread is about.

Stupid car ad. Moronic people who would buy such a car based on the ad. Was that not all said in the original thread?

[nashville_brook]

4. actually, this is about the car itself...not the culture war. that's what makes this special.

[MineralMan]

11. Well, it's certainly not a car I'd own. I like my

old Volvo 740 wagon. And I learned to put the seat down and put my underwear in the basket when I was five years old. I'm perfectly happy with my manhood, too.

I'm really not sure what the whole thing is about.

[nashville_brook]

16. for a second there, i thought you meant you were putting your underwear under your car seat.

THAT, would be taking it too far.

:evilgrin:

[MineralMan]

22. Hmm...I'd certainly never do that. If the need arose, I'd just throw

them out the window, for pete's sake. There was one time that my girlfriend put hers in her purse, though. :rofl:

[nashville_brook]

26. i've been there! and THAT's the best reason for big american cars!!

[MineralMan]

28. True enough. I was in high school in the early 60s, and there

was far, far too much underwear back then. Seriously. The days before pantyhose blew chunks, big-time.

[htuttle]

31. Me neither

I ride a scooter to work.

Signed,

htuttle, aka, "The Tripod"

[MineralMan]

33. Are you sure you're not flattering yourself, there?

:evilgrin:

[htuttle]

34. Nope

It's definitely a scooter -- NOT a moped.

:evilgrin:

[MineralMan]

38. Mmkay. When I was 14, I had a Cushman Eagle.

A fine mode of transportation for a high school freshman. Illegal for me to ride, but that didn't stop me. At that time, 1959, scooters were transport for dorks, but at least I didn't have to pedal it.

I'm still using nerd-mobiles. I discovered that they were chick magnets a long time ago. Non-threatening and stuff like that. Worked a treat.

[fascisthunter]

5. agree

boys with toys with manhood issues. And as for car design, very blocky and dull.

[nashville_brook]

8. as car fangirl...i don't begrudge boys their toys...just STUPID toys. here's a worthy toy...

http://p9.hostingprod.com/@

[ddeclue]

9. too small and too expensive.. I would NOT fit in that car.

[nashville_brook]

13. hopefully they'll be putting something bigger in production soon.

i'm wanting a fast crossover that handles like a miata. i can dream. :evilgrin:

[ddeclue]

18. can't fit into a miata either unless they can cut it in half and insert a "stretch" section into it.

[nashville_brook]

27. yep, it's a girls' car. and little tuner guys up at Dragons' Tail.

i'm sick that i never got to take my special edition up there.

[ddeclue]

30. I used to own 626's and I test drove an early Miata 1990 at a dealership

and it handles great but I just didn't fit.. you have to be like 5'3" or shorter to drive that car.

[Nevilledog]

43. Ahhhh......our new Saturn Sky Redline would make you smile

Hubby and I had wanted one since they first came out...we got a smoking deal on a brand new 2009.....this thing drives like a dream and it's almost painful to go the speed limit...I've had it up to 120 mph, but I swear it was in self-defense...I just had to pass those 6 cars who were going way too slowly...LOL

[Hissyspit]

46. No trunk!

My sister has wanted one since they came out and she finally had to buy a new car a few months ago, but she couldn't find a good deal. Ended up getting a convertible Mustang, which I don't like as much, but she is very happy with. And it does have a trunk.

I have a 2009 Aura XR by the way. Love it.

[Nevilledog]

47. It has a trunk....it's not huge...but it's workable

With the top up you can get probably 8 or nine grocery bags in there....and we also bought a set of luggage specifically made for the Sky....to use with the top down. You can pack enough for 2 people for a long weekend easily. It's all about being creative...LOL We love everything about it so far. We also have a 97 Saturn SC2. I'm just so disappointed that the Penske deal to purchase Saturn fell through...we love the brand.

[Hissyspit]

49. It would have been fine for my sister. She didn't really need a lot of trunk space

but she got a really good deal on the Mustang, which has a VERY large trunk space.

Yes, I like the brand, too. Their cars were getting BETTER again. My dealer will remain as a service center, but they've about sold out of any 2009s. I love my remote start, I love my moonroof, I LOVE my heated seats, I love all the informational display, better than was on the Vue I almost bought. This car was more than I wanted to spend, but I find that as I get older, I NEED all this stuff, it's not a luxury. I don't handle the stress of an uncomfortable or broken-down car well anymore.

[Nevilledog]

55. We have a Durango so we didn't need big trunk space.

When we got the Durango we had 4 dogs and needed the room....we're down to one dog now and I wish we didn't have the big suv...but luckily we live in a very small town and I maybe drive it 10 miles a day, if that. The only silver lining with Saturn closing shop in October is that we won't have to take the Sky down to Phoenix for service, the GM dealership up here will cover the warranty. Saves us a 200 miles roundtrip.

The cool little gadgets the car has is what makes it so much fun...the stereo system is awesome, it has bluetooth/handsfree capability, I can hook my Archos to it and play all my music, it tells me when there might be ice on the road, and the stereo stays on even after you've turned off the car and taken out the key until you actually get out of the car. Totally unnecessary things maybe...but fun. This is the benefit of not having kids...LOL

[Hissyspit]

59. Yeah, it does all that on mine, too. I make phone calls with my iPhone through the stereo system

via Bluetooth. All the little things that keep you from looking yourself out or running the battery down or leaving the car unlocked - I think these are safety features, as well as being fun. Mine was saying "Ice Possible" today because there IS ice. 2 inches of snow so far here in southern North Carolina.

I've never understood why Saturn didn't do better, but I guess it was just caught up in GM's general problems.

Enjoy your Sky. I'm envious.

[Nevilledog]

61. I've never met a Saturn owner that wasn't loyal.

Too bad they decided to get rid of Saturn and Pontiac instead of Buick (saying that word always reminds me of the sound you make when throwing up..LOL)

Another thing I really like about the Sky is that there are so few of them and they're unique. I think there are only 2 others in our town...heck, they only made a total of 4000 2009 models and I think only about 400 of the Redlines....we need to take good care of it because it will be a collector car.

Funny thing about pairing my phone with the bluetooth and putting in the voice commands for numbers I use more frequently... I had the door open so when it says the names back I get to hear my voice with the damn ding ding ding of the door in the background...LOL

If you ever get to Northern Arizona let me know and you can have a ride!

[Hissyspit]

65. The colors looked great too. I saw my first all black one somewhere recently.

Don't know that I'll ever get to N. Arizona. I flew into Phoenix over a year ago on my way to Denver for the convention. Got to fly over much of the state, but wasn't there long - I almost missed my connecting flight!

Yes, take care of it.

[Nevilledog]

68. I really wanted the dark gray one.

However, they only had a red and the evening blue in the Redline...I really like the blue...it's definitely blue, but dark...LOL

Thanks for the Saturn fan club chat.

[Hissyspit]

73. The blue looks fantastic.

Have a great weekend.

[Nevilledog]

77. Same to you. Night. n/t

[Kalyke]

100. You WANT a car to handle like a Miata? Why?

Slip-a-slide 'round the bend and sounds like a baseball card in bicycle spokes.

Give me the Steve McQueen Bullitt rumble anyday.

[Name removed]

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[Kalyke]

99. Ugly - looks like a bug.

I realize this is allegedly American, but has more of that bubble-boxy-buggle European look that I hate.

I like muscle cars and I'm a 5'1" tiny female.

[ddeclue]

7. I actually own a 2008 Dodge Charger R/T and it is an outstanding car

with a very sophisticated ride.. it's the ad that stinks.. not the car.

[nashville_brook]

10. you're in Orlando right? i really hope you're not the person i saw rear-ended on I-4

in a brand new Charger. an SUV hit him so hard his back window flew out from the compression. i don't love this car...but i felt SO BAD for him. i could tell it was his baby.

[ddeclue]

20. not me.. I'd be happy to be alive but pissed at the trucker..

[Fire1]

14. The police dept. in my township has a brand new unmarked

charger. Have to say, I like it.

[DirkGently]

15. Thank you!

It just struck me that the big irony was this appeal to masculinity by way of asking for a childish emotional response. "Buy our car because you're a MAN. A frightened, angry, threatened-by-women-and-work-and-society-in-general MAN." Really? We're just supposed to hop on that bandwagon and buy a crap car out of some kind of generalized faux outrage. It's ... it's ... wait ... I think it's patronizing, actually.

And from a car enthusiast's point of view, this is why American performance cars are where they are. Iron V8s, rigid axles, balky shifters, plasticky interiors, and no practicality or efficiency. Because they're profitable, and because American men can be counted on to buy crude, shaky, ineffective cars if they have a lot of torque and can tear up the 1/4 mile. Don't get me wrong -- I love the old, *real* muscle cars -- because back then, a Shelby Cobra could compete with a Ferrari. That was the technology. But not now. Don't try to tell us you STILL can't build something that steers as sharply as a Honda Accord or shifts as crisply as a Miata. It's just embarrassing. And being told we need to buy it because all the grownups are making us "sit through meetings" just underlines exactly how stupid Detroit still thinks we are and how much contempt it has for the American consumer, not to mention the American male.

[Name removed]

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[Warren DeMontague]

17. Or, you could just buy a DVR, instead.

I mean, it's 2010. Who fucking sits through commercials anymore?

[nashville_brook]

24. helloooooo...Superbowl commercials! no one FFs thru 'em!!

i'm jes sayin'

[Warren DeMontague]

29. I didn't watch the game, much less the commercials.

If there's a commercial I'm obligated to be outraged about, that is running on PBS or the Science channel, let me know.. otherwise I probably won't catch it.

[proud2BlibKansan]

32. It's a fucking commercial, not the end of the world

Change the channel and don't buy the product.

Problem solved:)

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

83. +10,000,000

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

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[seabeyond]

39. call me out specifically and then tell me to shut up. *shivers* what a man.

i am all in a dither.

[agent46]

36. Appealing to

Sounds like the ad is appealing to America's inner Dexter. It's that whole Serial-Killer-Outlaw-as-American-Hero thing.

Not even the genius of Michael C. Hall is sacred anymore.

Truly these are the last days.
:party:

[donco6]

37. Agree with the ad assessment, but I like the car.

If I could, I'd entertain buying one. But not from that ad approach.

[CTyankee]

40. I'd never buy this car. Period. After that commercial they can take it and stuff it

where the sun don't shine.

I agree with the last sentence of the post: "Be a man. Buy a stupid car. That'll show 'em best." If that ain't the stupidest of reasons to buy a car, I don't know what is.

Dumb and dumber. Some of the posts on these threads have been outrageous in their sexism. Can we not have a better policy here on DU in rationally looking at sexist posts as well as racist/anti semitic posts?

[nashville_brook]

53. given that (according to many studies) women hold the pursestrings wrt car purchases,

it's also really really stupid marketing.

[CTyankee]

84. They really slipped their mental clutch with this ad!

It must be a stupid car because only stupid people would buy a car marketed by these Einsteins...

[seabeyond]

87. doesnt make sense. any attention is good attention i call bullshit. sexist ad

we dont buy in this house. period. that is all. my hubby doesnt care. he knows i feel strongly. my boys understand. so a bullshit ad, putting me in my place, i say fuck you

and my whole house says fuck you with me.

how is that a good thing

[Name removed]

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[nashville_brook]

96. bad advertising happens by committee. i bet someone on the Board of Directors

pitched the concept in response to a much better idea, and the ad firm had to use the big nacho's idea or get fired.

[Name removed]

89. Deleted message

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[flvegan]

41. I just don't get the outrage, and the "guy response" is just a response.

I saw the ad as stupid and unfunny, but little more than a mockery of a stereotype that sitcoms have been milking for 20 years.

If I'm to understand correctly, this particular thread is about the car itself. Okay.

I'm no fan of Dodge/Chrysler/Plymouth. Never have been. Fact is, Americans, and men in particular do oftentimes do have a passion for cars. Not all men, mind you, and not *just* men. But, it's another stereotype and happens to have a bit of truth to it.

The resurgence of the 60's muscle car "look" is wildly popular right now. The Mustang, Camaro, Challenger (and Charger) are all throwbacks in appearance. Know why? Demographics. Boys and young men in the 70's and 80's are now in their 30's and 40's. They grew up with the absolute shittiest American cars in history. From 1973 (mostly) until the Corvette and 5.0 Mustang really found their grunt in 1985, there was nothing American that performed. The Corvettes (you know, America's premier sports car?) of that era had the horsepower of today's 4 cyl Toyota Camry. Don't believe me? Look it up. Uninspiring rubbish. So, these boys/young men had the posters of supercars of the time (Countach, 308/328, Testarossa, etc) and lust for the American classics from the 60's.

The nice thing about the new Charger is that if you're one of these matured men now, you have the luxury of something the new Camaro, Mustang and Challenger can't provide. Two more doors and space for your kids to put their legs.

And lest anyone suggest that it's just the Americans styling their mid-level automobiles this way and selling horsepower in increments, let me be the first to call you an idiot. Everybody is doing it. It sells. Burly, high horsepower techno-marvels are everywhere. Been on an Audi lot lately? How about BMW or Mercedes? If you walk onto a Benz lot and ask to see something in Black, they'll ask you if you mean the color or the elite line. Even Cadillac has a monster, the CTS-V. Cadillac!

Is the Charger a bit primitive? Not compared to where it came from. It does exactly what it's supposed to. It looks good to those that it appeals to. And in real life driving, if you have the Hemi, when you push the go pedal the car roars as the torque presses you back in your seat and the speedo needle climbs. One of the best feelings in the world for many of us.

Lastly, I always get a good chuckle at the morons that suggest cars like this are nothing more than a compensation in penis size because they obviously wouldn't "get" cars unless they were run down by one. Are there a minority of people that will by a Corvette or an M3 or a 911 for that reason? Sure. They do exist. Most buy them because they want a superior performance automobile, and they can't afford a Ferrari. Personally, I've loved cars since long before I knew what my penis was for in that regard, and a lot of gearheads/petrolheads reading this are nodding right along. I've owned a number of performance cars, including two Corvettes and a Porsche and there's not a thing I need to compensate for below my waist.

Yeah, the Charger isn't for me. Were I looking for a 4 door American sedan in that price range, I'd track down a Pontiac GXP. Brilliant car, that Pontiac. But I actually AM a car guy, and I see the point and why folks might choose it. It has nothing to do with petulance or self-entitlement. If you just want to go from point a to point b, fine, get some Pacific Rim shitbox. If you want to enjoy the ride, buy what you want.

[nashville_brook]

50. in this case, the morons suggesting the car will compensate inadequete penis size, is Dodge, itself.

:rofl:

[flvegan]

54. I didn't see the part of the ad that said that.

It seems to be more inferred by the critics of the ad itself. But then questioning manhood has long been part of the belief system of the folks that don't "get" cars.

[nashville_brook]

56. meebee watch it again and think "gestalt" -- it's the WHOLE message of the ad.

[flvegan]

57. Okay, watched it again.

Still not seeing where it does what you're saying. Maybe you're reading too far into it, or want too badly to draw that conclusion.

[DirkGently]

62. Not to put too fine a point on "it"

but yeah. The ad offers the car as a solution to the emasculating pain of having to "be civil to your mother." Don't see another way to read it besides, "This car will replace that manhood you "gave up" when you agreed to put the seat down." It IS a lame message, but it's Dodge projecting it, not anyone else.

:think: ???

[cherokeeprogressive]

78. Yeah, I don't get the whole "car as penis" thing either. I like to go fast. I like to feel

that rush. I like the acceleration. It's why I ride rollercoasters.

Car as penis? It doesn't speak to me. I mean, I've always thought I had a small penis, but it's never made a car-buying decision any more difficult than "which one do I like best?" And, other than me, no one has ever remarked on the size of my penis.

Get this though... The OP keeps touting the Tesla, the car for those whose taxes we want to increase. Tesla? Why, cuz it's battery operated? Is there some affinity that women have for batteries?

[flvegan]

81. I will never understand the idea nor the accusation.

I also like to go fast. I love the feel of torque extending my arms as my body goes deeper into the seat while my hands stay on the wheel.

IRL, there will be no legal public competition that will bill with the Nurburgring nor a real flat out streetlight drag that lasts a mile (men from the boys and all) outside of a track.

The Tesla is a great car. It's brilliant, and I love it flaws and all. But, if one is to compare apples to apples a 2 seat $100k sportscar made in the USA, one would have to be an absolute idiot to buy a Tesla over a ZR1.

The Corvette has long been a "penis extension" car to some. Some too stupid to know better would be my guess, I might add.

[Name removed]

88. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

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[JerseygirlCT]

44. All I could think, watching that ad

(besides, "how pathetic is this?") is that the car is BUTT-UGLY.

Maybe they have to sell it this way, because no one who doesn't have real issues would want one!

[ddeclue]

45. you'd be wrong..it's a very attractive car and your opinion is just that: an opinion.

[JerseygirlCT]

48. As is yours, of course.

I still think it's hideous.

I don't see the attraction for bumpy, lumpy boxes.

[nashville_brook]

51. it's a seriously ugly car that's seriously mpg-challenged. mmmmgowwa, go USA!

[DirkGently]

58. Ayuh. And it's not a "car guy" car either

All due respect to those who actually do like them, but none of these retro muscle slugs are good cars, or valid "car guy" cars. They're knockoffs with no excuses for not being a lot better. A classic Mustang or Camaro can be forgiven their wobbly shifters, battleship turning radii and sub-20 mpg, because back then, there wasn't an alternative outside of the exotics. We're smarter than that now. Look at that beautiful Tesla up there -- how about 100% torque at zero rpm, plus 100 mpg? Why did that innovation have to come from a tiny, independent company with no ties to the American automotive establishment?

If Detroit had been working on efficiency and technology as hard as it's been working at dreaming up new and misogynistic ways to market 50-yr-old technology to aging hotrodders, America could have Europe and Japan playing catch up with us, instead of the other way around.

Doing the same thing now, when "Hemi" is no longer meaningful technology, but rather a plaintive plea for nostalgia, and 100 hp / liter is child's play, is just lazy. These cars are just an extension of Detroit's glee at making easy profits selling a tricked out Chevy Tahoe for $40,000 in an era of cheap gas. Well, cheap gas is over, and so is the dream of selling unattractive, low-tech big iron V8 sedans as automotive excitement. There were apparently enough American suckers left to make the Chrysler 300 a hit when gas was still $2, but I think that ride, like Chrysler itself, is over. I think Dodge knows it, and can only assume that's where this Hail Mary marketing angle of buying a dumb car to show the world you won't put up with all those women and their lip balm and vampire tv shows is coming from.

:evilgrin:

[flvegan]

63. Really?

There would be car guys that disagree. The Tesla? Really. That's what you're going to hang your hat on? Yeah, it's a technological marvel, so long as you don't have to drive very far at once. And you have $100k. And you have a couple of them because their reliability is questionable. And you'll never have more than one passenger. And you don't shop for groceries for more than 3 days worth. I'll stop there.

To say a big horsepower engine that's either a V8 or larger isn't "car guy" worthy is the most laughable thing I've ever read on the topic.

Tell you what, for $100k you take the Tesla and I'll meet you at the track with a Corvette ZR1. I'll make tea while I wait for you at the end of the 1/4 mile. Or we can short track it. The Stig got over 7 seconds better in the ZR1. Then I'll drive home without having to ask anyone for an extension cord.

[DirkGently]

69. Mixing your facts a little?

The ZR-1 won't carry more than one passenger either, and it doesn't fall into the lame muscle car retread category the Charger does. It's not a 1950s iron V8 with a live axle, and it's a sports coupe, not a sedan. Try to at least argue consistently. If you're defending the Charger, talk about that.

Getting back to the car at hand, sure, the Charger has all that room, but the Tesla's just one of 50 smaller, smarter, better-designed cars that will spank it all over any track, straight, curved or otherwise. And I wouldn't suggest reliability as a strong point of comparison for any Dodge product.

Which is the point. Instead of building on the technological advantage Detroit had once-upon-time, it's trying to skate on nostalgia and lazy engineering. As for electrics like the Tesla, (which will out accelerate any V8 in the world between 50 and 70 mph, by the way) that's what one company did, starting from scratch, and it's already that good. Why didn't Detroit pioneer hybrids, or electrics, or even variable valve and cam timing? Because it's lazy, is why.

[flvegan]

72. Not mixing them at all.

I specifically stated that if you want to suggest that cubic inches aren't for "car guys" then I'll see you at the track and defeat you for the same money. You try to get your comparisons straight. If I need to recap: 2 seats v 2 seats, V8 v electric, $100k v $100k. You lose. Anywhere.

The car at hand? I'm not defending the Charger v the Tesla. As I stated earlier, I don't care for the Charger. Of course the Tesla will spank it on any track. But, give me the Charger (God forbid) at $35k and the extra $65k for mods, and I'll destroy your Tesla anywhere on earth.

Is Detroit chock full of morons for not moving forward with electric technology earlier? Absolutely. I'm certainly not going to ignore killing the electric car. But that's not the argument here. You're talking about what you find "car guy" worthy.

[Throd]

74. Shit, we put a tuned Olds 455 into clapped out '84 Skyklark and ran low 10's for under $5,000.

After a few runs the chassis died a horrible death, but the point remains.

[DirkGently]

76. and the Charger ain't.

I hear you standing up for straight-up horsepower and old school rocket sleds, but 1) I don't think that's a viable category for a NEW car, and 2) I don't think this is a great example. I think this recent crop of retro muscle is a lazy cop out and I find it insulting that Dodge presumes to tell American men they need to buy into it to hold onto their b@lls.

We can do better.

[flvegan]

80. But it is.

For those that find the Charger appealing, it is. Much to your chagrin. You don't have to think that anything is a viable category, nor a great example. But, facts are facts and what you "think" doesn't change that.

As for a "viable category" what about hot hatchbacks? Still a horsepower game. How about the elite in luxury, Rollers and Bentleys and whatnot? Same thing, brand loyalty aside. Maybe Pagani should just call it a day. TVR had a good run.

How is this "recent crop of retro muscle" a "lazy cop out" but a new batch of bright red, sleek Ferraris not the same thing? Go with what you know and all? What will (and has) sell/sold. Oh, and how many throwback Mustangs/Camaros/Challengers/Chargers have been sold, exactly? Calling them "old school rocket sleds" is nothing short of self-defined ignorance.

Yes, we can do better here in the good ole USA. Why don't you Google SSC Ultimate Aero and enlighten yourself. It's still petrol powered, but it being the fastest production street car in the world, putting the Veyron, the CCX and anything Italy has ever made to shame means something. AND, they want to make an electric version. Oh, but shit...the SSC, the Veyron, the Koenigsegg, and my favorite the Pagani Zonda...all "old school rocket sleds" to the likes of you, right? Sorry, here I am mentioning supercars and hypercars that aren't in a viable category for a NEW car according to your criteria. I'll stop doing that. Here, just for you "the Tesla looks good and moves forward quite briskly!"

I still fail to see where Dodge tells men to hold on to their balls (I typed it out...this is a website for grownups, so it's okay).

Is the Charger a "great example?" Jesus, no. I've said over and over, yet you seem to fail to grasp that. But that's okay. You're an alleged "car guy" that seemingly doesn't know shit about cars if one can't plug it in. And even then...sketchy.

Dodge doesn't "presume to tell American men the need to buy" anything. They offer a product, and some folks choose to take them up on it. A "car guy" would get that.

[DirkGently]

101. I wonder what you're actually

arguing about at this point? The Charger is an unattractive, 4,000 lb, 17 mpg slug. It's ugly. It's impractical. It lacks any kind of technological innovation. Large numbers of other cars of varying prices and descriptions will outperform it in any category you choose to name. And it's being marketed as a suggested response to the awful burden of "putting the seat down." If you think that's a viable "car guy" approach, and you can't see the lame there, I'm afraid we have nothing more to discuss.

But I think you do see it. You say I'm not grasping the point, but all you're doing at this point is repeating that you have no argument in support of this car, but there are other cars that this and still other cars that the other thing. We're not talking about Veyrons. This isn't the ZR-1. It's a pale attempt to cash in on the *memory* of a unique type of American car, without bothering to actually make a special vehicle.

Please, enjoy the last word on this if you'd like, but understand that what I'm reading in your posts is that you feel the need to defend a vehicle you haven't found a single genuinely positive thing to say about (without changing the subject) and a notion of "car guyness" that wants to excuse an ad suggesting that in 2010, American performance car enthusiasts should get behind a homely, two-ton sedan that would have trouble outgunning any number of smarter, sharper vehicles on the basis that they're angry about carrying their girlfriend's "lip balm."

[nashville_brook]

98. heheh...you said "b@lls"

[Name removed]

92. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Touchdown]

52. I don't think I met anyone who feels oppressed by putting the seat down.

It isn't my problem. I leave the seat up and don't worry about it. If you are too stupid to check before you sit, then you deserve to fall in.

[lib_n_proud7650]

60. Could care less, really

[Throd]

64. It's a car thing. You wouldn't understand.

Now go pay someone to change your oil.

[flvegan]

66. Damn.

:thumbsup:

[Touchdown]

67. Oh' this guy understands. He just said that shit to get laid.

He was typing while crossing his fingers.;)

[nashville_brook]

70. you're just sore b/c DG's got better mojo with the ladies... and better taste in cars.

:evilgrin:

[Touchdown]

102. I'm a BMW owner. You can't have better taste than that.

Impossible.:evilgrin:

[Name removed]

103. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Touchdown]

104. Kraut Cars are Audis.

Mine is 100% Schnitzel!

[lukasahero]

105. "A kraut car"?

Seriously?

"Kraut" meaning German. "Kraut"?

What decade are you living in?

[Lorien]

79. Pffft! My MOM taught me how to change the oil in our car when I was 12.

She loved car shows.

[Name removed]

93. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[fishwax]

71. the ad was stupid, but I rather like the car n/t

[Berry Cool]

75. I loved this! Thanks for posting a separate thread on it! n/t

[nashville_brook]

94. every once in a while a post just leaps out at you, and you know it deserves more attention

than being #338 in a day-old thread.

[Blue-Jay]

82. It's just an ad for a car.

Ads for cars traditionally target men, and I just can't manufacture any honest outrage about this one.

[LatteLibertine]

106. I don't care for the ad either

and it's just another example of a large corporation trying to manipulate folks into more mindless consumerism. It's a shame so many people let themselves be made to feel anxious and incomplete. Ultimately, the latest corporate garbage is not going to complete you.

We're a sick nation in many ways. I still remember a vid that showed folks literally trampling one another, sometimes to death, in order to get to the latest console gaming station that had just been released at a Walmart.

[spooky3]

108. now THAT rant is worth a heart!