Teachers and school administrators, please enlighten me....

[OneGrassRoot]

My daughter attends a public high school. I absolutely have compassion for the stress teachers and school administrators are under, especially given the never ending budget cuts, etc. This is especially prevalent in the Arts departments -- at least in my experience, these are still the areas cut first when budget issues are at play.

So, I completely support teachers, vote for budget increases and bond proposals, etc., to help fund public schools, even when my daughter wasn't IN a public school.

Knowing I come from a very supportive perspective, here is something I'm experiencing and I'd like to know if I'm missing something.

I'm a theatre booster parent so I'm involved with fundraising. Now, in this particular school, even to take the theatre class -- NOT an extracurricular activity, but a credited class -- there is something called a Fair Share fee. It's only $25, but still...many of these expenses are thrown at the parents very unexpectedly several weeks into the class or activity or whatever. It's not for classroom materials either, it is to contribute toward performances.

These fees parents are responsible for add up, and I know I'm not the only parent who struggles with these myriad expenses.

They do offer several fundraising activities to help the kids raise money, but I think I'm rather normal in that -- especially without family and friends living close by -- it is very hard to take advantage of these options. I work from home, so I don't have a network of coworkers to "tap." Plus, even if I did, we've all grown so reluctant to ask neighbors and coworkers to buy yet ANOTHER thing they really don't need or want and we wall know it.

Another aspect of this is that it is indeed often left to the parents to do the fundraising, as the kids are already overwhelmed with school, extracurricular activities (which are pretty much required on college transcripts nowadays), jobs, etc.

I find EVERYTHING overwhelming these days, on top of my own 80 hours of work a week.

I always try to find a way to reduce stress, for myself and others, when possible. I always try to think outside the box.

I proposed putting up a simple donation fundraising widget at the website I created for the theatre department, explaining that -- other than sending it around via viral email to family and friends, embedding it in Facebook and blogs and such -- there is zero effort, not only on the part of the parents and students, but the teachers as well! I DO try to take their stress level into account.

The response I received was that the students need to WORK for it...all fundraising should be through their work. (Again, the reality is that rare do the students DO the work of fundraising.)

Wow. Granted, this was coming from someone in her late 20s, with no children. And while I try to put myself in her shoes, I don't think it's reciprocated. Most of these kids are working very hard, and with all this extra stuff via the school, keeping academics a priority is really tough -- and it's often BECAUSE of school-related things that makes this the case. I find the whole mindset mind-boggling.

Oh, that's another thing. Because most of my family and friends live elsewhere, they would LOVE to partake more in fundraisers, but most of the ones chosen require the people live here (there is a frozen pastry fundraiser that is exorbitantly expensive to ship; car washes; etc.). Thinking outside the box and keeping the community at large in mind would be so helpful...coming up with ways to enable those who live far away -- yet know children at the school -- would be good for all concerned. Granted, they can just send a check, but for many of them if they can just click and use PayPal, it is a done deal. Plus, more people are apt to do a $5 contribution at an online fundraising tool if that's all they can afford but won't write a check for that amount...and every little bit counts. It adds up.

And it isn't just this one teacher, it is a general mindset of all ages and departments that I've encountered.

That's another thing: There is a reluctance to work together with other departments that I do not understand. Again, as a booster parent, we're asked to help with every aspect of a production, including building or creating sometimes complicated props. I've asked why they don't get with the other departments to help with these items. Like the shop department to help craft a complicated mechanical prop; the art department to help with many things needed; graphics department, etc.

I would think putting those students' classroom time to work learning and creating by doing something functional and directly applicable would be welcomed by the teachers of those other departments, as well as the students.

Am I just a difficult parent/booster parent by being frustrated by the lack of coordination and willingness to get people to work together, or is there something obvious I'm missing because I'm ignorant about the system?

This is especially significant for me to understand, as I hope to launch a venture soon which very much has community at the core, with the intention of involving all aspects of a community: schools, businesses, organizations, etc.

There is so much fragmentation out there, but I'm starting to wonder: Do people even WANT to work together and be more unified, with a cooperative approach, beyond paying lip service to the concept?

(I apologize in advance if there are abundant typos, missing words, etc...I have to run and no time to edit).

:)

[M155Y_A1CH]

1. Proaganda for Profit 101

Just like Wally World workers have nothing insightful to say about unions.

It's just like when FEMA won't let in donated water because they can't credit themselves for it.

School staff has been propagandized to approve of the fund raising debacle. Someone's brother-in-law would lose his profits if the school didn't sell his wares.

Schools themselves could buy items to resell in bulk, without the middle man.
But they don't. There is always a middle man, for books and desks, media machinery, and teaching programs, ad nauseam.

[OneGrassRoot]

2. I could see that for the "stuff" fundraising...

but the car wash fundraisers, for example, don't benefit a middle man...none that I can think of.

Still, that may be part of the overall equation and mindset, and why change in general is slow to take place.

Thanks. :)

[M155Y_A1CH]

23. Car wash is a great model for active fund raising

Organized service activities like car washes can be pure profit for the school. Local business can be encouraged to donate materials for these activities making them entirely profitable.

These are less likely to be parent enabled assuring credit given where due as the true labor is witnessed.
I'm sure it burns a kid to know he lost the sales contest due to parental enabling, to someone who's parents are bosses at big companies.

It seems to me the most easily parent enabled method, sales, is also the least profitable for the school as this is where the middle man gets involved.
How many parents are making hay for this guy.

Maybe one could fight the status quo by looking at the middle man for the reason he is doing business with the school. If he can't be justified then a question should be raised regarding continued relations with that vendor. We should be aware of whom the school does business with and have more say about it, IMHO

Your idea of a donations link is wonderful but it would have to be done school by school at this point. I hope you make it work locally and show it's value.

[madmom]

8. I kind of take offense at the

"Wally World workers have nothing insightful to say about unions" statement in your response.

I am a VERY pro union supporter/ex Walmart worker. Let me enlighten you on MY experience.
I worked at Meijers a "union" shop. I worked in the deli for $7.65 and hour, $6 a week went to union dues. I wanted to be full time but they said can't do it, but they still worked me 37 hours a week whenever I needed a union rep I got the daughter-in-law of my boss. I tried complaining about the conflict of interest obvious to most people but they saw no problem, and of course every problem was settled the company way. Fast forward..
I hired in at Walmart, working in the deli, exact same job. I made $10 an hour. I didn't want full time by this time but they wanted me to go full time and kept asking. When they DID need me for anything over 25 hours they ASKED me first, to cover for vacation or sick leave or whatever. I got quarterly bonuses at Walmart, even after I quite I still got $400 for that quarter, an unexpected check in the mail, quite nice IMO.
Now why would it be better for me to work at Meijer, just because it's union? The thing is just because they are a union shop doesn't mean a damned thing. It has to be a GOOD union, and as long as people just say union yes and NOT make sure things work to better the worker, unions will get a bad rap. Most of the workers at Meijer bitch constantly about the union dues because they can't see why they should be paying them, and I agree.
Just to clarify I was a member of 2 unions, my father, husband, and son are all union members. They agree with me. AND we do support unions, just GOOD unions, they are not all equal.

[M155Y_A1CH]

17. I meant that they are gagged

While you were at work there I'll bet you knew not to share your pro-union leanings.
From what I understand it would be terms for dismissal if you got caught at it.

Some unions seem to just pay the salaries of it's representatives but at least they are in place.
It's more like insurance in those cases. Many unions are out there actively fighting against employee injustice. Much depends on what can be fought for and won in each sector.

Sorry I should have worded my reply to be less insulting to Walmart employees.
I meant that you can't speak your insights if not allowed .

[madmom]

20. Ok gotcha now, but to tell the truth

we were treated pretty fair compared to other places in my town. The talk of union never came up, at least that I heard. Walmart here is one of the better paying jobs outside of factory work. In the factories here you have to know someone on the inside to even get an application.

[M155Y_A1CH]

24. It's good to know that

I've been thinking of applying for part-time work there.

[madmom]

25. I'd say go for it. Now also a lot had to do with how good a store manager you have. The manager we

had/have was a cashier/deli worker who worked her way up the ladder. Could make a big difference. Good Luck in whatever you decide.:fistbump:

[Fumesucker]

3. I was a band booster for four years..

My observation was that there was an "old boy" network that controlled everything regarding fund raising, if you weren't part of the network you weren't going to get any say in how the fund raising was done.

In every event there was always a group that stood around talking and networking and another different group that actually did the work of the event.. I'll give you one guess which group was in control.

[OneGrassRoot]

4. Yep, I hear you....

I'm less and less apt to be involved...way too frustrating for me since no one seems truly interested in being effective. I don't mind hard work, but I am trying to -- in my old age -- "work smart, not hard." ;)

[madmom]

5. That's easy, it's not football, so it don't count!

[OneGrassRoot]

10. ...

;)

:hi:

[Dappleganger]

6. School politics can be very frustrating

for volunteer parents (I served on a parent-teacher advisory board for two years, co-chaired for a third year). It's very easy for parents to become discouraged based upon their experiences with hearing 'we've always done it this way' coming from BOTH teachers and parents. It's also discouraging when certain parents try to out-vocalize the others with their opinions (and remember, that's all they are...opinions).

Just wanted to empathize with you...our oldest has been in theater (stage art/lighting) for four years now and we go through this every year as far as expected contributions and expected fund raisers. These kids WORK so hard at their craft and then are expected to WORK on the weekends (and of course that cuts into their part-time work schedule as well). This is a direct result of funneling all the extra money to sports teams instead of to the fine arts (when's the last time you saw football players going door to door to sell magazines?).

This is why I no longer will serve on SAC or PTA...the school's AND parent's priorities are all geared mostly towards sports and the rest of us are left fighting over crumbs.

[OneGrassRoot]

9. Thank you...

I appreciate you sharing your experience, and empathy. :)

[Dappleganger]

15. Well it's something which definitely needs to be brought up

but I can't say anything aloud to but a couple of fellow parents because quite honestly there's a strong group of parents who feel entitled to RULE and will spread all kinds of nasty rumors about you or your kids if you don't fall in line with what they think. I guess that's the price we pay for being in an elitist school system. :(

[OneGrassRoot]

16. I'm apt to stay quiet until my daughter graduates...

as I've definitely seen the students suffer if the parents are "difficult."

I have to pick my battles. I may get super vocal once she graduates, if I have any energy left. LOL :)

[boobooday]

7. So many sad things in your story

1. Schools not fully funding art courses/theatre courses
2. Some children will not be able to participate because of costs
3. Forcing children and parents to beg for money for their education
4. Having some bullshit policy, like they have to work for it?

Gee, why don't they just make students who want to study theater clean the bathrooms for it?

I work at a university, and I will say that the first thing that happens in bad budget times (which sadly seems to be the normal state these days) is that one department will be pitted against another, thereby discouraging the kind of cooperation you describe. It's even worse at the University.

This situation pits dept. against dept. and parent against parent, and teacher against teacher against administrator, when they should really all be banding together to raise hell on behalf of ALL the students and ALL their educational and extracurricular activities.

Wish you luck. I think your idea was a good one, and they're punks for not listening.

[OneGrassRoot]

11. Wow....

That is the kind of tidbit I didn't realize. The part about the way things are done pitting departments against other departments.

Thank you for that.

It IS pathetic, and now that I see I'm not completely insane for being as frustrated as I am, I may not shut up and fade gently into the night after all....

;)

Good luck to you as well. :hi:

[LWolf]

12. I know that

every state, district, and school site can, and does, operate a little differently, so what is the norm for your area or school, and the norm for the districts, states, and schools I've worked in may not be the same.

With that said, I'm thinking about several things at once:

1. The need to charge parents a fee for a public school class; not okay, imo, unless those who can't afford to pay are scholarshipped. My school does this for field trips, since our district and sites don't pay for them. For outdoor school for our 6th-8th graders, which requires buses, 1-2 nights overnight, food, etc., we sell ice cream all year as a fundraiser, and use those funds to scholarship students who can't afford to pay for the trip. No student is required to go. I'd still rather not charge families; it's that or not go, here, and families expect their "turn," so tolerate the fees.

2. The constant fund-raising CAN be frustrating and exhausting. The worse the budget gets, the more fundraisers are suggested, despite the fact that our families' budgets are feeling the pinch just as ours are. My school site chose to severely limit fundraisers, and do without the extras they provide, this year because we knew the community couldn't afford them. I'm wondering why the high school is offering a class they can't fund.

3. The online fund-raiser is a good idea. The "work ethic" imposed is flawed. Students have a right to a public education, and students "work" to learn, to keep up with homework, and to pass their classes. There is a place for service learning, but fund-raising is not that place, imo. I'd take that up with the high school administration, just as calmly and respectfully as you have done with your post.

4. Departments that don't work together....I've seen that. I've worked mostly in schools that DID collaborate well, and I've been happy to. I HAVE, though, seen some that don't. There are a few factors that I've observed that lead that direction: schools that are too large, where staff don't see each other, get to know each other, build the kind of relationships that foster collaboration; poor leadership from admins leaving staff exhausted and defensive; and the constant push for "competition" in schools. Departments competing for funds, scheduling, and other resources may not view other departments as partners, but as opponents.

I'm happy to report that I've spent 27 years in public education, mostly with people who WANT to collaborate to make their schools great places for the families they serve. We have a lot of ideas about how to do just that. It starts at the top.

[OneGrassRoot]

13. Thank you for that, LWolf...

In speaking with the one teacher about the "Fair Share" approach for a credited class -- theatre and chorus as far as I know right now, though I shall investigate this whole policy much more now -- she was also adamant that any student who can't afford it lets her know.

As my daughter and I have talked about repeatedly, the policy in and of itself is rather mortifying:

1. It is so embarrassing for kids to be put in that position.

2. Sometimes the kids DON'T know that it's a problem; the parents don't always want to burden the child with how very tight things are. I know two years ago when my daughter was in a school play, I had to use my Citgo gas credit card to get the nonstop things she needed for the play: cosmetics, panty hose, etc. Thank GOODNESS I at least had that available, but I never told her I had to resort to doing that in order for her to be in the play. I'm glad we had, and have, a roof over our heads and food on the table, but the day-to-day life of so many is one of struggle. The kids often aren't aware of how intense that struggle is. Granted, people struggle to varying degrees -- it's all relative and I realize that -- but a struggle it is.

As is being discussed in several places, cooperation is the way of the future -- chances are we'll be forced into it.

Thanks again. :)

[Dappleganger]

19. See, that's the thing...

the kids are put into a bad position (and some of them really do KNOW how hard off financially things are for the family), the parents are put into a bad position because they just want their child to enjoy life like any other normal kid and not have to stand out because of not having supplies and fee $$.

It sucks, it really does suck. We had to tell our high schoolers this year that they needed to help with extra money due to field trips, fees, etc. We did not order graduation invitations and although we did pay the sitting fee for senior pics, are still saving up to be able to afford those too. I HATE THIS! Her friends have asked her for those pics so we made our own. We also find out at the last minute that now they are afraid to ask for any money because of it...oldest ds won a DECA competition at school and needs to go to Orlando (for nearly $300, not including food) and just now told us. He is paying for it out of his own pocket since he has a small job, but I am so sad that it's come down to this. All of these would have been covered w/no problem if dh hadn't been laid off from his good manufacturing job a year ago. :(

[OneGrassRoot]

21. ...

:hug:

I just sent you a PM.

[mopinko]

14. people are naked apes. they guard their territory. you thought they were

there to teach your kid?? hahahahahaha

seriously, tho, i say put that widget on there and see if any of these goons even notice. you did the website. maybe they would rather pay someone to do it. you are the webmaster, are you not?
and i don't see why the kids can't mount some email/social media campaigns to drive people to the website to donate. maybe if they see it in action, they will relent.

fees for these kind of classes ought to be against the law.

[OneGrassRoot]

18. LOL....

Believe me, I thought about just doing it, to show it in action. I've used it for other things, with much success.

Unfortunately, it has to be an "approved" fundraiser to be part of any efforts.

I'm still tempted to do it for my daughter; thing is, even if she would raise a decent amount, above and beyond her "fair share," it wouldn't be applied to other kids' fair share, to eliminate their responsibility.

Very, very frustrating. Plus, my daughter just wants me to let it go and keep my mouth shut so I don't create more grief for her.

:eyes:

I hear you though.

:hi:

[conscious evolution]

28. Do it anyways

What are they gonna do?
Fire you?
Shut your mouth or they will create grief? Sounds like a bunch of bullies,imo.

Edit to add:Remember this-Money talks,bullshit walks.They are gonna look real stupid cutting off a successful funding source.

[OneGrassRoot]

30. There is very much a bully mentality....

which, unfortunately, seems to be the case in most social hierarchical situations. In this case there are teachers, some new, others who've been there forever; parents who've been around forever, new parents to the mix; then the students.

The students are the ones who suffer the most in the end.

As someone who has always rebelled against systems that no longer work but are in place because "that's the way it's always been," I recognize that change just isn't accepted or even entertained graciously at all. Even if the situation seems to scream that change is mandatory.

Humans are funny creatures with egos and all. Oy.

These same power struggles are taking place in so many ways, especially as more and more people are acting out of fear; they hold onto what they are familiar with, even if it no longer works, out of fear.

That's my philosophical take on the whole thing.

Plus, bottom line, some people are simply twits.

Like I said, I'm evaluating the whole thing -- and viewing it in light of the bigger picture at play as well -- and will pick my battles. I may indeed end up doing this covertly...just to prove a point and see where it ends up. I did create one of those online fundraising tools for my daughter just to be able to show them how it COULD work, but haven't done anything with it nor shown anyone yet.

We'll see.....

:hi:

[OneGrassRoot]

32. That's a good point, CE....

I am looking to DO this, incorporating it a bigger community project, to show them.

Geesh...is it my imagination, or can fewer and fewer people imagine the potential of things? I find that, more and more, I have to SHOW people -- step by step -- exactly how something can work.

I'm not a programmer at all but I can get a basic website up. And, thank goodness I can, as that's one concrete way I can SHOW people stuff.

Oy.

Maybe it's always been that way and only recently have I been really trying to get others to think outside the box. :shrug:

Nice to "see" ya. :hi:

[conscious evolution]

34. We are the ones we have been waiting on.

[goclark]

22. I completely understand your frustration ~ I was a School Administrator

and Fund Raising is NO FUN!

I am delighted that I have ReTIRED!

With Budget Cuts and Lay Offs for School Staff as well as for parents,something has got to give.

[mopinko]

26. wait, back up a little

just who shot down this idea in what setting? can you go over their heads? can you get some support from other departments that fundraise?
never say die.

[OneGrassRoot]

27. I am REALLY reluctant to do that....

simply because it would make life even MORE difficult for my daughter (trust me; in this particular instance, it would, given the personalities involved). The teacher/theatre department head shot it down.

I'm a warrior type but my daughter isn't, and we're having enough trouble just keeping our heads above water with life as it is without asking for more grief. I have to pick my battles with my daughter, too...lol...anyone with teens can relate to that. ;)

I am, however, pondering a way to approach the school board about policies such as this in general, without getting specific. I usually prefer a grassroots approach, but if that won't work, I'll start from the top and work my way down. But I'll have to be very measured in my approach.

I know if you were here, you'd be fighting the good fight...no hesitation. That's what I've always admired about you. :pals:

[mopinko]

33. well, it gets me in plenty of trouble.

i am sure you have more friends than me.

nonetheless, if you have a good relationship with the principle, i would put a bug in her/his ear. and by all means take it up with the school board. see how obama did in your area, and maybe play them the video from the speech the night of the wis primary. he talked a lot about education.

[OneGrassRoot]

35. ...

I'll do an update if anything comes of this whole thing. Thanks again. :hug:

[Dappleganger]

36. Geez, if I tried that...

in my school they'd laugh me out of the building. Pretty much every one of them die-hard repukes, unfortunately.

I'm with the OP, the stress of putting up a fight while going through hardships AND trying to raise a teen who doesn't want the added scrutiny isn't worth it. It may be worth it for some other family who's not going through such a hardship, but I certainly wouldn't try it now. You don't have to deal with the school parents or faculty forever but you certainly have to deal with your kids!

[OneGrassRoot]

37. Major right-wingers at this school, too...

Not the theatre teacher (so her attitude about all this really surprised me!), but others. Pretty much every email I've ever gotten from an employee at the school has a Reagan quote, something to the effect of putting God back in the schools.

I want to vomit every time I see it. I absolutely WILL be raising hell about that when she graduates. I'm anxious for her to graduate for many reasons, yet terrified about the next phase: college.

:scared:

[Dappleganger]

38. I feel ya...

it's scary and plans seem to be changing moment by moment.

[Bunny]

29. It's a shame that there is so much fund-raising involved for public school activities, and

that they've imposed such a weird rule about the kids having to work for it.

You wrote: "Oh, that's another thing. Because most of my family and friends live elsewhere, they would LOVE to partake more in fundraisers, but most of the ones chosen require the people live here (there is a frozen pastry fundraiser that is exorbitantly expensive to ship; car washes; etc.). "

When my kids were in a Catholic grade school, we had an annual fundraiser which used an online company. Friends and relatives from far away could order stuff from the website, pay for it, and the items were shipped directly to their houses. My kids didn't have to do anything other than send emails with the web address to their grandma, aunts, uncles and cousins.

The site they used is http://www.sallyfoster.com/ I have no idea if it was profitable or not
(I was not on the fundraising committee), but my family bought stuff from it because they're all far away too. It was a convenient way for them to contribute to the cause.

[OneGrassRoot]

31. Thanks for that!

I will keep that link and pass along. I have no idea of profit margins for that type of thing either, but I think everything is worth considering.

:hi: