Boy almost suspended for bringing this gun to school (picture)

[Liberal_in_LA]

Boy nearly suspended for 2-inch Lego gun at school

Comments (29)NEW YORK (AP) - A New York City fourth-grader was sent to the principal's office and nearly suspended for bringing a 2-inch toy gun to school.

Nine-year-old Patrick Timoney and a friend were playing with Legos in the cafeteria at Public School 52 in Staten Island on Tuesday when Patrick produced the tiny plastic machine gun and put it in the hands of a plastic police officer.

After Patrick's mother got a call from the school, his parents met with the principal and persuaded her not to discipline him if he agreed to leave the toy gun at home.

http://www.komonews.com/news/offbeat/83645477.html

[Mike_03]

1. Is that part of the policy called Zero Tolerance?

It is ludicrous. I know of ten year old girls who were expelled for bringing Tylenol to school to control migraines, or baby aspirin to help control migraine.

I DETEST "Zero Tolerance". It is very deranged, and so over the top.

[lumberjack_jeff]

3. As tolerance approaches zero, stupidity approaches infinity. n/t

[Mike_03]

10. LOL, I love that. I want a Tee shirt with that.

"As Tolerance Approcahes Zero, Stupidity Approaches Infinity."

Beyond well said.

That kind of statement just flat-out deserves an award.

[Ozymanithrax]

25. Son tolerance is inversely proportional to stupidity...

Excellent observation of the human condition.

[Fla_Democrat]

16. /cheer

:yourock:

[D23MIURG23]

30. You officially win this thread. n/t

[proud2BlibKansan]

7. There is no 'almost' in zero tolerance

So no.

[noamnety]

9. Sheesh

I've been chewed out because I made a student take their tylenol to the office to keep there til the end of the day (no punishment whatsoever, but it's state law that they can't carry it at school). Parents were furious with me for my "over the top" reaction (which included no yelling, no nothing, just - "you have to keep it in the office, have your parents fill out this form here so you can take it when you need it."

As for the weapons ... I had a student bring me a bag of plastic green army men. I've had them set up on my desk for a few years now, some have machine guns, some grenades. I read these stories and wonder if I worked somewhere else if I'd be fired for that. The only problems it's caused for me is sometimes the kids who sit near my desk get bored and turn around and start playing with them. It's a pain to have to retrieve them from under the computer desk when they take a dive.

[proud2BlibKansan]

17. It is against our school district's code of conduct to bring even toy guns to school

And it was against the rules in both of the school districts my kids attended. This is not an uncommon policy.

Sheesh. Read the story. A kid brought a toy gun to school and the principal called the parents and asked them to make sure he didn't bring it again. Now tell me that never happens in your school. And if these parents hadn't called the media, it would be over by now. :eyes:

[Shell Beau]

28. It is over the top regardless.

I guess there can be no distinction, but a toy gun for a tiny lego is different than a toy gun that can appear to be real. Some toy guns are so realistic, and I understand that can be a danger. But a 2 inch toy gun for a lego? Seems way over the top to me.

[proud2BlibKansan]

31. Of course it's over the top but so is these parents contacting the media

The principal handled this appropriately. And like I said, there is nothing all that unusual or harmful about how this was dealt with at school.

The problem is it's impossible to come up with a policy that pleases everyone. Should we allow 2" guns but not 6" guns? Are realistic toy guns worse than obvious toys?

Better yet, can we stop talking about this now and get back to academics?

Kids shouldn't bring ANY toys to school. They are a distraction and they often get broken or stolen. Instead of challenging the policy in the media, these parents need to direct their energy towards teaching their kid to leave his toys at home.

[Shell Beau]

32. It probably shouldn't be newsworthy, but it does raise some interesting questions.

Should toys be banned from school? Obviously you think so, but I bet many would disagree. I am not sure what I think about that. Maybe when my baby is old enough to be in school, I will form a deeper opinion on it. Times didn't used to be like this. I am only 31, and school used to be about academics and fun. Kids need to have fun. Learning needs to be fun. I don't think toys will make learning fun, but it makes me wonder about the direction our schools are going in.

[proud2BlibKansan]

34. They are a distraction

How would you like to spend a significant amount of money on a new toy for your child only to have him take it to school and another kid steals it? Or breaks it?

Happens all the time. The distraction isn't the toy as much as dealing with its breakage or disappearance.

The real story here is this child missed out on a valuable lesson about following rules and being responsible. And instead of teaching him those valuable lessons, his parents called the media. He doesn't yet know that taking a toy to school is wrong, but he knows his parents will freak out if the principal calls them. I find that sad.

[Shell Beau]

38. Ok, but where do we stop with the distractions?

Pretty much anything is a distraction for a child in school. And this isn't about toys, this was about the toy being a gun. Maybe the parents overreacted by contacting the media (just another example of how much times have changed), but it still brings up an interesting discussion.

[Posteritatis]

40. "Distraction" is school-ese for "because I said so"

If they want to ban something - anything - they just say it's a distraction or disruptive, and reality magically reshapes itself so that the administration or whoever else said it is unassailable. The terms are used for just about anything that any given person doesn't like - this thread's a particularly obvious example - totally independently of any kind of reality or evidence.

[Shell Beau]

42. From what I gather from my teacher friends, most problems

they deal with aren't even about the student, but about the lack of caring on the parents part. That is what we need to work on.

[Posteritatis]

43. That too, yeah. (nt)

[proud2BlibKansan]

44. Yes it is an interesting discussion

I just don't think it fits in this particular situation. :shrug:

Times have indeed changed. Parents used to support schools, now they file lawsuits. And sometimes over petty crap. Like parents who sued a teacher who took their son's Pokemon cards away. So guess what? We stopped allowing Pokemon cards at school. School districts, administrators and teachers react and create dumb policies when parents file lawsuits.

As far as the gun toys, many states passed safe schools legislation following Columbine and school districts are obligated to abide by those laws. We don't get to decide that the law is dumb so we are going to ignore it. If we do, we risk losing our jobs. So we respect and enforce the laws, even if we disagree with them. As for zero tolerance, educators were the loudest voice opposing these policies when state legislatures and school boards were considering them. But that gets lost in the mania over zero tolerance policies that are on the books now. No one complains to their state reps or school board when zero tolerance policies result in over punishing kids, they complain to the teachers and the principal, the very people who most likely didn't support enacting zero tolerance policies in the first place.

It just gets tiring being beat up over and over for stuff we have no control over.

[Shell Beau]

45. I have the utmost respect for teachers.

Just because I may not agree with a rule, doesn't mean I get all pissy because it is enforced. I think there are so many rules out there now that it is hard to keep up. Most rules are there for reason. But some rules are silly and are put in place because of potential lawsuits, etc. If we worked half as hard on getting parents to give a shit, some of these problems would resolve on their own. Of course, I don't know how you make a parent care.

[proud2BlibKansan]

49. That is the million dollar question

Sadly, all too often the parents who never come to parent teacher conferences or to meet the teacher are the first ones to complain when their child is penalized.

I had a situation just a few weeks ago. The girl brought her cell phone to school and the principal took it away after she passed it around in class so everyone could read some text message she had on it. Secretary called Mom who was at school inside of 15 minutes to get that phone. Yet I had left 4 different messages for that same parent telling her I really needed to meet with her and discuss her daughter's failing grades. Mom never returned any of my calls. Her daughter failed 1st semester and may have to repeat the grade next year. But by golly, she got her cell phone back.

And yes, we do allow cell phones at school as long as they are in pockets and not creating a distraction in class. Passing it around to share a text message definitely meets the distraction criteria. But I suspect some here would think that is unreasonable. :eyes:

[Posteritatis]

35. The problem is that things like this are fear issues, not toy issues

Kids get in trouble for having spatulas, for drawing pictures of weapons, for keeping their epipen or rescue inhaler on them so the school doesn't kill them by making them wait too long for a hall pass, etc.

Making it about OMG toys are ebil distractions is just ignoring the far more important issues that have been leading to this kind of situation in greater and greater numbers for eleven years now.

[Posteritatis]

33. You could have the "no weapons in school" policy apply to, you know, weapons

Anyone who thinks a 2cm long piece of molded plastic should be treated the same way as a functional firearm is an idiot, and that is exactly the sort of "reasoning" which led to this case, countless others like it, and even more insane ones going to the point of students being suspended for drawing a gun or saying the word "bang."

[proud2BlibKansan]

36. Who said this toy was treated the same way as a functional firearm?

If this little darling had brought a functional firearm to school, he would have been expelled. That's pretty far removed from almost suspended.

[Posteritatis]

37. Maybe you should follow the number of cases like this, then

If you're ranting about toys and distractions and the other standard don'twannathink talking points in situations like this, you're missing the point by miles.

[proud2BlibKansan]

39. Go back and read the article again

The point is these parents freaked out and called the media because their precious little darling took a toy gun to school and the principal called them. That's all there is to this story. I believe all those going hysterical in this thread about zero tolerance (which doesn't even come into play here since the kid wasn't suspended) are the ones missing the point.

What's next? Parents freaking out after their child is fined for returning a library book late?

[Posteritatis]

41. I've read several articles about this

So no, that's not all there is to the story. There's several threads about it pointing to different articles on this forum alone that you clearly haven't seen, and I couldn't begin to count the number of similar cases I've read in the last decade.

You're making up this claim that the kid got disciplined for some nonexistent no-toys-are-allowed policy which you seem to think is in place because you wish it was.

If you actually look around a bit, or read about the scores of similar situations like this in the news, the issue was specifically because schools are deciding that these toy guns are real weapons. Why don't you do that and then get back to us? If not, you really don't know what you're talking about here, and are just going off half-cocked with an active refusal to understand the issue.

[proud2BlibKansan]

48. No I have not seen several threads about this kid almost getting suspended

Every school I have ever taught in has a policy against toys at school. Every single one. So yes, I think it's a fair assumption that this policy is in place at little darling's school. In my district, it is in the Code of Conduct that applies to every school in the district - no toy guns. And the reason it is in the Code is because there is a STATE LAW against bringing toy guns to school. The law doesn't say that 2" guns attached to Lego people are okay, it says ALL toy guns.

One of my students got suspended for 10 days last year for bringing a toy gun to school. Did I think that was overkill? Yes, but guess what, my OPINION doesn't mean squat. A rule is a rule. A law is a law.

Now surely you understand that schools have NO CONTROL over state laws. Sure we can choose to ignore them but I can't think of any educator I know who would be willing to lose her job because a kid brought a toy gun to school and she believes the law is just silly.

Don't like it? Complain to your school board and/or state legislature. But don't complain to me or the principal because we are merely doing our jobs.

And somehow next time the state legislature is considering a silly law like this, something tells me that once again, those of us who work in the schools and have to enforce the silly laws will be alone lobbying the state legislature while all these outraged parents suddenly have better things to do.

[NYC_SKP]

2. OMG, that's an assault rifle!!11!!11!

run away right now!!!

:fear:

[Billy Burnett]

4. What school within the militaryindustrialcomplex would object to that toy?

Isn't that a homeland security agent action figure from the crusader series of kids toy?

[Mike_03]

5. I'm just trying to understand the new DU: Why on earth would anyone de-recommend this thread?

What on earth is the point of that?

[Liberal_in_LA]

8. I've given up figuring it out. Maybe they are neg reccing the topic.

[proud2BlibKansan]

19. I did for the attempt to once again blame public schools for silly shit

And in this case, it is exceptionally silly.

Kids bring toys to school every day. And principals and teachers call parents every day and tell them to help make sure the toys stay at home. Why is this news worthy?

[noamnety]

22. I recommend not paying attention to that.

Every thread is unrec'd within a few minutes at least once regardless of content. I've learned to recognize that as a fact of life and not take it personally or assume it's because of content. Once you realize it happens to everyone, it's not such an offense, just something to test your own ability to accept things you can't change. :)

[Oregone]

6. I feel sorry for the principal. Probably had to tread the line between lunacy and policy

Think about it. If they failed to recognize a black and white no tolerance policy, their ass would be on the line. So they had to sit their in the face of a totally absurd situation and play along and call the parents. There is probably a lot more to the picture than people would get on the first pass.

Being involved with schools in an authority position can be intolerable at times. Id been before, and I felt repercussions from ignoring ridiculous policies from time to time. Every incidence, no matter how benign, has to have a paper trail for your own ass.

[rgbecker]

11. When I was in grade school 50 years ago, no toys were allowed at all.

I guess the premise was we were there to do school work rather than play. Didn't matter what type of toy.
I also remember smuggling in toy cars to race on the hill outside during recess, without any repricussions...that would have been 2nd grade or first. No toys after that, as I remember.

[proud2BlibKansan]

12. dupe

[L0oniX]

13. Certainly that toy was a threat. It could have been shoved up someones ass.

[proud2BlibKansan]

14. How does a kid almost get suspended??

This is yet another 'schools are BAD!' story where the parents' version is all we get. If you click on the link, the article notes that the principal did not comment.

Here's what probably happened: The kid brought this toy to school and since it is a violation of the district's conduct code to bring even toy guns to school, the principal called the parents and said please don't let him bring it again.

Story over. Happens probably every day in an elementary school somewhere in the US.

But the parents decided to call the media and blow it out of proportion.

BFD parents. Kids almost get suspended all the time. When your little darling ACTUALLY does get suspended, let us know. :eyes:

[baldguy]

15. Ceci n'est pas un pistolet

[frazzled]

18. Toys depicting aggression not appropriate for school

That would include everything from GI Joes to, yes, angry looking Lego men with machine guns. Many schools have policies about what kids can bring to school, including for show-and-tell, and toys. I don't see a problem with this. I wouldn't suspend the kid, but if the school has a policy about toys brought to school, I'd confiscate it and determine an appropriate action (such as letter to the child's parents).

You know, it would be fine with me if they had a policy banning girls bringing Barbie dolls and such, too. School is for learning, and sometimes personal items are just too distracting to some children, or promote values that are not shared by everyone.

[proud2BlibKansan]

20. Thank you for getting it

:hi:

[Tansy_Gold]

23. ITA, 100%

Of course, it would also be nice if Lego didn't MAKE such toys. . . .

I mean, couldn't they promote, you know, PROGRESSIVE values for a change?


yeah, I know. I'm dreamin'. . . .


I'm also



Tansy Gold

[Merchant Marine]

24. Lego doesn't make the little guns

They've stuck to megaphones with a colored bit on the end as "blasters" for as long as I can remember.

The little lego guns are made by 3rd parties like brickarms.com

http://www.brickarms.com/

[Shell Beau]

29. It is just so different these days. And I say that as a fairly young person.

School used to be for learning and fun. And in fact, if you can make learning fun, it only benefits the kids. Not saying guns and Barbies can make learning fun, but times have just changed. Maybe for the better, but a lot of times, I think not.

[Ex Lurker]

50. that''s not the issue, schools can set policies on what toys, if any are permissible.

A kid brings a toy to school he's not supposed to, fine, confiscate the toy. But to label the child a security threat over a two inch piece of plastic is insane.

[jmowreader]

21. Times have changed from the 1970s, eh?

When I was in school, students brought hunting rifles with them--there were a LOT of deer on the mountain the school is built on (come to think of it, everything in St. Maries is built on a mountain) and kids would go up there after school to hunt them. No one thought anything of it.

One student with a bolt-action .30-06 or 12-gauge shotgun could have caused major damage, but in all the time I lived in town we never had one school shooting.

[datasuspect]

46. we had plenty of gun interaction as children

with no parents around. it wasn't uncommon for kids to carry co2 pellet guns, .22 rifles, stuff like that, among my friends. we used to hunt each other with bb guns.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

26. CEO of Legos to be arraigned in court on Monday... possible links

to terrorism cited.

[Shell Beau]

27. You've got to be kidding me?

Oh my.

[GoneOffShore]

47. Post #3 FTW

EOM

Rest of thread is full of fail and many members of the Church of Our Lady of Perpetual Outrage - Schools Parish and Helicopter Parents Parish.