My boy was kicked out of Boy Scouts - by xgz

[kpete]

"No member can grow into the best kind of citizen without recognizing an obligation to God"

My boy was kicked out of Boy Scouts
by xgz
Thu Feb 04, 2010 at 08:41:50 AM PST

It turns out that you have to believe in God in order to be a Boy Scout. This was a shocker to my family and we are still in disbelief. My son got his first lesson about intolerance in the society...

......................

My son was doing fine with reciting the oath. They were practicing it so I heard him reciting it several times while I was there. Before we left, one of the Scout leaders came over to me and told me that my son had volunteered that he didn't have any beliefs. He also said that they had told him that he needed to allow others to hold their beliefs. I nodded in agreement, not realizing that this would be a problem.

A few days later, I got this email from the Scout leader,

Hello YYYY,

As a scout advances in scouting, he will be dealing with statements in
scouts like "Do my duty to God..." and "a scout is reverent", etc.
The last requirement for the Webelos badge deals with the scout's
religious beliefs and how they help guide his life and his actions.

During he last den meeting, CCCC informed me that he has no
religious beliefs. I mentioned to him that he needs to respect others
rights to believe in what they want to believe.

I do see a problem coming up for him if he continues in scouting. The
religious aspects will only get more apparent as he advances. For
instance, this February 14th is the Scout Sunday at First United
Methodist Church and we are all strongly encouraged to attend and
participate.

I don't know how to handle this requirement in order for him to
complete the Webelos award.

Scouting does not direct boys to any one religion, but the idea that
there is a supreme being is one of the most important core beliefs.

If I am mistaken on what he believes, first, I apologize, and
secondly, please complete the 8th requirement for Webelos and after he
has completed the Bobcat requirements, he will have earned his
Webelos.

XXX

In total disbelief, I went on BSA website, and found their statement of religion,

Declaration of Religious Principle, Bylaws of Boy Scouts of America, art. IX, § 1, cl. 1

***** "The Boy Scouts of America maintains that no member can grow into the best kind of citizen without recognizing an obligation to God. In the first part of the Scout Oath or Promise the member declares, ‘On my honor I will do my best to do my duty to God and my country and to obey the Scout Law.’ The recognition of God as the ruling and leading power in the universe and the grateful acknowledgment of His favors and blessings are necessary to the best type of citizenship and are wholesome precepts in the education of the growing members. No matter what the religious faith of the members may be, this fundamental need of good citizenship should be kept before them. The Boy Scouts of America, therefore, recognizes the religious element in the training of the member, but it is absolutely nonsectarian in its attitude toward that religious training. Its policy is that the home and the organization or group with which the member is connected shall give definite attention to religious life."
http://www.bsalegal.org/duty-to-god-cases-224.asp


Let me repeat, the BSA states that "no member can grow into the best kind of citizen without recognizing an obligation to God". Well, now I know that Boy Souts of America is indeed a group of intolerant religious zealots. After talking to my son, we decide that he does not need to be a member of such an intolerant organization.

I promised to my son that we will find other ways to help the community.

more:
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2010/2/4/833783/-My-boy-was-kicked-out-of-Boy-Scouts

[Bill McBlueState]

1. I'm surprised this is news to anyone

The Boy Scouts have been aggressively asserting their right to exclude people they don't like for at least a decade now.

[paulsby]

3. i have to agree

i'm not in the boy scouts, and never was, but i've seen it mentioned dozens of times that belief in a god is a requirement for boy scout members.

[Ohio Metal]

13. All the while

Taking federal money to promote their bigotry. I am ashamed to say I was ever a boy scout.

[arthritisR_US]

21. girl guides is no better..I went through hell with them. n/t

[trotsky]

23. Yeah, I thought everyone was aware of this.

My son doesn't get to be in boy scouts for this very reason. Plus even if they allowed us non-believers in, I still wouldn't go if they excluded homosexuals.

[SidDithers]

2. Gotta start the intolerance young, or it might not take...nt

Sid

[progressoid]

4. I believe the Girl Scouts have a similar oath

On edit:

Here's what wiki says:

Girl Scouts of the USA

On my honor, I will try:
To serve God* and my country,
To help people at all times,
And to live by the Girl Scout Law.

* The word "God" can be interpreted in a number of ways, depending on one's spiritual beliefs. When reciting the Girl Scout Promise, it is okay to replace the word "God" with whatever word your spiritual beliefs dictate.

[coffeenap]

17. delete

[KharmaTrain]

39. The GS Are Far More Tolerant...

My wife is an area GS coordinator...my daughter is a gold award recipiant...and there is no religious attachments like what this letter states. In our area we have many religions...Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Islam and Budhisst as well as some who are either agnostic or atheistic...and I have never heard of a case where a girl was told to drop out or discriminated against if they weren't "true believers". Last year, one of their service projects was working with homeless shelters based on area churches and my wife contacted parents before accpeting the project to make sure no one would be offended if their child were to spend an evening at a church...no services, just helping pass out food and bedding to those unfortunate to have to call those places their homes.

BSA is another matter. I was in the Cub Scouts that was operated through the Jewish Federation of Chicago...but only lasted a year as my parents felt the program wasn't properly supervised (didn't help when I ended up painting my uniform and ruining it...they weren't going to spend any more money). I recall the oath but in the early 60s, I didn't see any religious litmus test as to who could be in scouts and who couldn't.

When my son was in first grade, I attended a BSA recruiting meeting...and was aghast. Besides the religion (the local troop leader was a fundie with what I felt was a masocistic streak. I was really turned off on all the military language and symbolism on display...and with the attitude of the organization that I knew wasn't for my son. I found out that many others in the area were also turned off and either didn't enroll their sons or pulled them out due to Mr. & Mrs. Fundie and their religious/militaristic views. I later learned that the local "den" was disbanded and the only area troop is based in a fundie church...and so be it.

[w8liftinglady]

40. agreed.When I was a girl scout,we had members who were jewish,hindu and buddhist

religion was minimized,and emphasis placed on charitable works.(my GS troop was on a military base with many different nationalities)

[Winterblues]

5. I was a Boy Scout

I knew what was in the Oath and the Scout Law but I only had to recite them one time to advance in rank, to become a tenderfoot. Never was there any sort of sermons or proselytizing or Religious talk of any sort. Religion was Never mentioned in all my years with the Scouts. I believe Boy Scouts are a good organization and young boys can learn much while attending..Others may have had different experiences..:shrug:

[Fumesucker]

7. The point being though that if you do not believe in god then you must lie about it..

And scouts are supposed to be always truthful, eh?

[crazylikafox]

25. Don't ask don't tell?

Geesh

[Winterblues]

33. When you were eleven years old did you know what all your beliefs were?

I used to go to Church when I was that age. I was just beginning to "question authority" and my beliefs had not yet been fully formed.

[Fumesucker]

36. And what if the parents are not church goers and the child has had no religious indoctrination?

By the time I was eleven I had read all four of these tales and was well on my way to atheism, my best friend's father had an extensive library including quite a bit of science fiction which I became addicted to by the time I was seven. My mother was an apatheist and my father an atheist, I got no indoctrination from them.

But then the Boy Scouts didn't make such a big deal of the religion thing back then as they do now.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Case_of_Conscience

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Star_(short_story)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_Question

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Canticle_for_Leibowitz

[hayu_lol]

10. Baden-Powell started the scouting program...

with the idea of getting city kids out into the woods and "away from their mothers and their PASTORS." Scouting was just about this level when I was a scout back in the 40s.

The practice of religion in Scouting was to be very brief and no particular emphasis was put on it. The Boy Scouts have been totally co-opted by fundies including Mormons. You have to do it their way or not at all.

[vadawg]

16. i was always led to believe it was to prepare young boys for the life of a soldier

i think you will find the religion part is worldwide with the scouts..

[petronius]

14. That was my experience as well - the law and oath recitation was just

ignored boilerplate before getting to the good stuff. I developed a real love for backpacking and camping during my time in the scouts, and a big chunk of my environmental ethic.

I don't think I would participate in the BSA now, given that support at the local level would still trickle up to a national group I don't agree with, but for me - in a troop that was out of sync with the top-level mindset - scouting was a good experience...

[KittyWampus]

20. perhaps in the last several decades as the Religious Right Fundie extremists have taken over school

boards and local level political offices some of their ranks have also used Boy Scouts to push their agenda.

[petronius]

27. I would not be surprised if that was so. My BSA experience was

20-25 years ago; a lot could have changed in that time. Even then, however, we were aware of other troops with a more religious bent than us. One troop in particular was the 'Mormon troop', sponsored by a church and toeing the "reverent" line (although the difference that seemed most important to us was that they didn't bring cola to their camp-outs - the height of oppression in our eyes!)

[trotsky]

24. No doubt there are lots of "good" troops that don't follow the rules.

Just like there are "good" Catholic churches that disobey Rome.

But the fact of the matter for both is, the parent institution is actively working to exclude and demonize others, and even though their local unit might not be, they are contributing to the whole.

[Hekate]

31. Sadly, all that has changed. My dad was a scoutmaster from the early 60s through the 70s, iirc...

There was NO "God-talk." It was the Boy Scouts, f'petesake, not a seminary!

By the time my nephew (now age 22) was working toward his Eagle rank, the religious right-wing was in ascendance at the national level and gays had been banned. Unitarianism was declared to not be a religion, if you wanted to get a merit badge of that sort.

My BIL, a Unitarian, a scoutmaster, and Eagle himself, had decided to keep fighting from within. When his troop went to the big Jamboree, they took the rainbow with them -- and at this remove I can't remember if they all just had rainbow patches, or if they carried a rainbow flag, but the national org was not amused.

Once my nephew became an Eagle Scout and graduated high school, that was the end of my BIL's involvement with Scouting too.

It is really sad.

Hekate

[Jokerman]

38. I had a different experience.

My scout troop was run by an ultra-religious couple who interrogated me about my family's religion. When they found out I had never been baptized they made the meetings a miserable experience for me.

After telling my dad about this on the way to a scout meeting I got to sit in the car and listen to him verbally rip the scout master to shreds.

[alittlelark]

6. My son left the BoyScouts at 11 yrs old.

He has no belief in a supreme being.

He could not become an Eagle Scout w/o a belief in a supreme being.

After a few talks w/ the troop leaders he decided to opt out.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

8. When my sons were little they wanted to join the cub scouts. I refused to let them join because of

their bigoted practices. I explained to both of them why and they were cool with it.

[aikoaiko]

9. As an Eagle Scout, this hard stance is on "believing" is very disappointing.

When I was a Boy Scout, I had some vague notion of believing in a god-like entity even though I was agnostic on the details. So saying the oath wasn't problematic. On the other hand, I don't recall the issue being so militant or ever being questioned about it.

Their stance on homosexuality is also problematic for me.

It's a damn shame because it Boy Scouts has a lot to offer boys -- athiest, agnostic, and gay, bisexual, transgendered boys too.

[sailor65]

11. Where is the part that has him being kicked out?

I don't see an indication anywhere that he was ejected.

Like the other poster, I have never seen in my many years any boy ejected from the BSA for a lack of religion. And whether you like its core religious views or not, the BSA still maintains more of a focus on service to your fellow man than most other organizations.

[kiva]

19. I noticed that too.

Maybe to make the story more dramatic?

[Union Yes]

12. No child should be forced to be indoctrinated with religion. nt

[LiberalFighter]

15. Why do they specify a church that they are encouraged to attend?

To me that appears they are forcing a specific religion on the troops.

[JHB]

32. Back when I was in cub/boy scouts (the 70's)...

The meetings were usually in the basement of the Methodist church, but Methodists might have been the minority in the pack/troop: between Catholics, Lutherans, assorted other Protestant, Jews, etc.

At the time, it didn't make any difference, at least not that the kids noticed.

[LiberalFighter]

42. What I don't get is why the Boy Scouts in this case wanted all of them

to attend a church at a specific location.

[Cid_B]

18. And by kicked out...

you mean chose to leave?

After talking to my son, we decide that he does not need to be a member of such an intolerant organization.

[Xithras]

22. I'm sorry that he was in such a hard-ass Pack.

My experience has been that the overwhelming majority of Cub Scout packs and Boy Scout troops simply ignore the Mormon-run national organization on this issue. My oldest son is a First Class scout, and his Scoutmaster didn't even shrug when he found out that my son didn't attend church. That's saying something, since the Scoutmaster is a devout Catholic and member of the KoC. He's said in the past that he personally wishes that the boys WOULD all go to church, but that he's not going to exclude a boy and deprive him of the other character building aspects of scouting simply because he chooses not to. Personally, I've found that perspective to be very widespread, and don't have a problem with it.

[liberal_at_heart]

26. I would never sign either of my children up for scouts

[ddeclue]

28. It's a private organization entitled to make up whatever rules it wants.

I was an Eagle Scout so I know all about this.

The solution is simple - don't join. There are plenty of other organizations that would be happy to have your time, money and participation. Eventually, like the Catholic Church in the U.S., the Boy Scouts will get it when their membership dries up and will figure out that they need to liberalize their policies and join the 21st century if they want any market share.

[Beer Snob-50]

29. i was a scoutmaster for 4-5 years

as well as a cubscout leader before that. regarding the webelo requirement, i would simply tell the parents it was up to them to do what they felt was right and sign it off. good nuff for me. in boy scouts, we never participated in religious events due to the different views of the kids.

one religious story involving scouts, before i became scoutmaster, the troop my kids were with was affiliated with a local catholic church. the leiason with the church was a very very religious person. she had us kicked out of that church by telling the priest that the leader at the time did not take all the kids to church during campouts or emphasize how important religion should have been to the kids. we ended up at another church in town but they left me alone and i left them alone.

[GreenPartyVoter]

30. We've never had any problems of this kind with our local pack.

[Beer Snob-50]

35. that was the only problem involving religion and scouting.

other than coordinating my time with the scouts and time with my wife, it was a pretty easy experience.

[DURHAM D]

34. Maybe you should consider 4H - following is the oath.

"I pledge. . .

My head to clearer thinking
My heart to greater loyalty
My hands to larger service and
My health to better living
For my club, my community, my country and my world. "

[Jazzgirl]

37. I went through all the ranks of the Girl Scouts.

I remember the oath mentioned God but I don't remember ever being preached to or told to believe one way or another. We learned how to make stuff and we participated in all kinds of interesting activities. Lots of camping (seems like I always got the spot with the rock). I just don't remember anything like this. Of course this was back in the 60's.....

[mrbarber]

41. The Boy Scouts has alwasys been a religious organization.

[Hekate]

44. Troops were often sponsored by churches or synagogues, but by no means all troops were....

In the post-WW II era if your family didn't belong to a church or synagogue, you had plenty of other options in troops that met in school cafeterias, public park buildings, and family rumpus rooms.

In church/synagogue settings, a certain amount of religiosity could be expected. In secular settings, most parents would have been offended to have someone other than themselves talking religion to their kid.

In the "civic religion" of the 1950s-60s we expected public officials' references to be to a rather generic God or Divine Providence, one that most present could give a nod to. The Scout Oath was considered to have that generic God in it, not Jesus specifically.

From my own Girl Scout days, and my brothers' Boy Scout days, I remember our respective handbooks seemed to encourage religious and ethnic diversity. We were encouraged to believe that a Girl or Boy Scout in India or Switzerland was our sister or brother in Scouting, and at least in my handbook there were illustrations of GSA uniforms around the globe to illustrate that.

The management of the BSA has been overrun by fundies, but it didn't start that way. The last I heard, the GSA, for its part, was having nothing to do with fights over sexual orientation.

Hekate

[crispini]

43. You know, when I taught school in Thailand,

Scouting there was a required part of the school day and curriculum. However I am quite sure that all those good little Buddhist kids were not required to reference "God" in order to participate in scouting. It seems to me this is quite possibly a problem with American scouting, and not a worldwide thing, although I would be interested to hear from others.