How sad! Potential loss of a job, is worth homicide & suicide.

[SoCalDem]

A bad review is enough to put such fear into some people, that they would kill, rather than risk being jobless..

A 60-something with 5 years until Medicare, and probably a ton of family responsibilities..

A sign of our times :cry:

Job review spurred shooting
http://www.currentargus.com/ci_5723574
Carlsbad Current Argus, NM - 3 hours ago

Houston -

Attacker at Johnson Space Center feared being fired, police say
By Rasha Madkour
The Associated Press
Article Launched: 04/22/2007 01:00:00 AM MDT

Houston - The shooter in an apparent murder-suicide at the Johnson Space Center had received a poor job review and feared being fired, police said Saturday.

William Phillips, 60, smuggled a pistol into the space center Friday, shot David Beverly, 62, and barricaded himself with a hostage before shooting himself in a building that houses communications and tracking systems for the space shuttle, officials said.

Houston Police Chief Harold Hurtt said Phillips bought the snub-nosed .38-caliber March 18, two days after receiving an e-mail citing deficiencies in his job performance, saying that he was going to be reviewed.

A copy of the e-mail was found in Phillips' lunch bag on the day of the shootings, police Lt. Larry Baimbridge said.

On Friday, Phillips had lunch with Beverly and another man, police said. Then, early that afternoon, Phillips entered Beverly's office with the gun in his hand and said, "You're the one who's going to get me fired," Baimbridge said.

snip

[MADem]

1. Was he short enough time to collect a pension? That would probably freak him out, especially

if he'd invested years in the job. Maybe he was getting 'expensive' to keep on the payroll (as the older worker often is, what with all those better benefits, and the medical, and so forth) and they wanted to can him so they could hire a cheaper model at half the pay. Or maybe he was getting a bit 'geezery' in his specialty, and not keeping up with the latest stuff, so they wanted to can him rather than give him a bit of remedial training to get him up to speed...and then hire someone at half the pay.

Sad situation all round, this--for this poor idiot who thought, even for a moment, that killing a coworker would fix his problem, and for his coworker, who had to die so the idiot realized that didn't solve anything; and for the familes. Sheesh, what's in the water at NASA? Between this, and the latest on the diapered astronaut (bondage pictures and "orange pills" were found in her vehicle, apparently, when she was arrested) ya just gotta wonder about their personnel vetting practices. Or the water....

Beverly's wife, Linda, said her husband of 41 years was an electrical parts specialist who felt working at NASA was his calling.

[H2O Man]

2. It is sad, indeed.

It's worth noting how financial and work-place pressures can ruin people's lives. One of the single biggest factors that creates problems in marriages is financial difficulties. The work-place puts stress on people, and that stress often is expressed in the workers' family lives. While I am not in any sense okay with violence in the work place, I recognize that many people feel pushed to the edge of their ability to cope.

[monarch]

3. It's not just financial.

So many people have their whole identities wrapped up the work they do. "Where do you work?" is practically the first question in a conversation with a new acquaintance. Even if the person being asked the question isn't particularly proud of their own job, that person often takes pride in the company or the industry-- or even the fact of being employed at all.

Sad, sad situation!

[SoCalDem]

5. My friend was suicidal when he lost his only job he had ever had

he worked for a defense company here in S Cal. he started with them stright out of cllege and at 49, they eliminated his position, and said..see ya.

He was fortunate to have a bundle in his 401-k, but he could not find a decent job, and was very depressed.

He is now selling books for some school book company, and loathes the job, but he said if he had stayed home any longer he would have surely "taken the pills"..

His wife was beside herself trying to help him, but it took him nearly 3 years to 'come out of it".

[H2O Man]

6. Very good point.

I retired several years ago, due to injuries sustained in an auto accident. And I did have a period of adjustment. It wasn't just surgery, etc. It was no longer being able to do the job I loved. I had not realized the extent that I had come to identify with my employment. It wasn't exactly the same as the financial stress that was an immediate factor after the accident, but it was real.

[bobbolink]

29. That "adjustment" can be traumatic!

Certainly, depressing. When one finally has to face the fact that life won't "return to normal", it can send people into a real tailspin. And, there doesn't seem to be much understanding of this.

One time I had to go to a dr for a bad rash, and my regular doc was out of town, so I was saddled with his on-call. I'm on medicaid, and this doc was beyond rude to me...almost came right out and accused me of being all sorts of things, including alcoholic, druggie, etc., which--postReagan--people *love* to assume.

For the first time, rather than swallow it all and feel bad about myself, I said, "You know, doc, if you think my life of leisure is so grand and want to trade places with me, I would happily do so." He did a double-take and looked at me, stunned. I said, "Yes, that's right, I'd give *anything* to be able to get up every morning and come to work at *your* job, and be able to help a lot of people during the day to feel better, and to prevent illnesses. Not to mention the standing and respect you enjoy in the community."

He actually had the grace to get embarrassed and change his tune, and stammer something like "Yeah, I guess there is another side to it..." as he shuffled off and decided to find the samples that would give me relief for a nasty rash.

So many people have NO CLUE!

I hope things are well at the waterfalls.... :)

[MadHound]

4. Another sign of how our society is stressing people out beyond their breaking point.

And this is just going to continue to grow worse and worse until our country wakes up and institute a real social safety net. This should consist of UHC, pension and unemployment benefits, shorter work weeks, etc. etc.

[AZBlue]

13. And how isolated we've all become. To this man, his job was everything.

It seems he didn't have a family, lived alone and may have been isolated from others - so his job became that much more important as not only a source of income and benefits but also his social outlet.

[TahitiNut]

18. Indeed. Few can appreciate how much stress and pressure can be deliberately placed on ...

... the back of someone that an "insider clique" have decided to get rid of. Covering up such organizations is a facade of 'proper' and 'fair' employmment practices but inside they can adopt practices that would make fraternity hazing seem completely inconsequential. I've had some experience with an organization that had collusive approaches to sabotaging and harassing an employee they wanted to get rid of that could literally drive someone into a psychotic episode. Indeed, the 'cover' is to engage in practices that they could easily dismiss as 'paranoid' and easily shift the blame to the employee. While I won't go into much detail, let's just say that people who appear paranoid could actually be telling the truth about the head games played on them. Deliberately. Never underestimate the collusive malice that can exist in such situations. I've seen it.

[SoCalDem]

23. First hand knowledge here. I used to write the schedule where i worked

adn when the bosses wanted to get rid of someone, they would re-write MY schedule so that people who "asked for nights off", suddenly had ALL nights and mega child-care issues..or they would get the bare minimum 20 hrs.. :grr:

[pitohui]

7. at 60 he would likely never be hired again, age discrimination is real

i doubt many of us could live out the five years between 60 and medicare with no job income and no health insurance, if you see yourself being financially destroyed with no hope left in a capitalistic society, why wouldn't you want to make someone pay?

i understand this a lot better than the cho killing actually, we live in a society where you are tolerated as a human being on sufferance for as long as you are "successful" and if you are old and you are not already set for life, then you are considered to be worthless as a human being

age discrimination is so real that many men older than a mere 50 know if they're fired, they could never again get another "real" job, i'm surprised we don't see a LOT more of this

everybody who is discarded by our cruel society is not going to just quietly go away and die, some will strike back and strike out

while i wouldn't do as this man did, i fully understand the fear and the rage

[Pushed To The Left]

16. Very good points

The hardcore "free market" approach where employers can fire/evict/not hire anybody for pretty much any reason with no accountability may actually be making society less safe. If losing a job couldn't wreck a person's life, and if a qualified person could find a job at ANY age, maybe some tragedies like this could be avoided. I'm not excusing or condoning violent behavior at all, but the hardcore "free market" approach certainly isn't helping things.

[treestar]

28. Can't all the old people get together and start a new company?

How can we be that helpless?

If we are that dependent on the corporations, we'd have to do what they say and let them decide what's best, wouldn't we?

[undeterred]

8. ..

[Eurobabe]

9. Sign of the Times, under BushCo.

on an off-topic note, what does ass fragrance smell like and do I really want to know??

[SoCalDem]

10. Hey, it's 50% off.. you could try some.. you might like it

:rofl:

[Eurobabe]

26. I think I'll P-ass.

:rofl:

Isn't that just like a Walgreens?

[bobbolink]

11. "God bless us, everyone"

Dickens has much to say to our society now.

[meldroc]

12. Ever see Falling Down?

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0106856/

Stars Michael Douglas as a worker for a defense contractor who was laid off, became mentally unstable, and finally goes postal.

Grisly subject matter, but actually twistedly funny.

(after Bill shoots the golf cart, triggering Frank's heart attack)
Bill Foster: What's wrong?
Frank: My - heart...
Bill Foster: Well, what can I do about it?
Frank: Pills... get p-pills...
Bill Foster: Where are your pills?

Bill Foster: Bad news. Your little car's gonna drown. And you're gonna die, wearing that stupid hat. How does it feel?

[blues90]

14. I can relate to this a bit .

I would never go kill anyone . However at 57 and losing a job in a career that lasted over 32 years and now not being able to find any sort of job is slowely killing me . I was sick of my work but I had worth and v alue and a paycheck . Now I can and will never find a good paying job again , I know this because of all I have gone through searching .

I no longer have the drive or interest even in hobbies i enjoyed , I never knew how difficult finding another job would be since this last job lasted 12 years I was out of touch with the job market .

I have many days of fear and wake in shock every morning where I cannot listen to people around me going to work each day while i suffer in fear . Sometimes this fear and stress are all I need to just want to end it . As sad and weak as this may sound the feelings are never the less real indeed .

[SoCalDem]

15. All I can offer you is

:hug:.. I know how hard this is on you.. My friend finally bounced back, but he said it was a deep emotional wound to be cast aside when he was not ready to leave :(

[TahitiNut]

19. Ubetcha. You're discovering what many of us have discovered.

People over 50 are regarded as expendable in most companies these days - easily replaced with younger, cheaper workers. The age discrimination is very real and very insidious. "Overqualified" is the most frequent reason offered if any reason is offered at all. (It's not any easier to know for a fact there are H-1B workers doing jobs you're called "overqualified" to perform, even though you'd happily take one of those jobs.)

[SoCalDem]

20. "over-45s" used to be an asset to companies, but now we are liabilities

over-45s are seen as:
set in our ways
not up on technology
likely to get ill


To a corporatist, the ideal worker is submissive, young, hungry for hours, and healthy..also likely to be very much in debt for their "toys" and their educations, so they make excellent serfs workers :(

[blues90]

21. It certainly seems like it .

You know at first I never considered being 57 a problem , I felt my years of experience meant something .

After I lost my 12 year long job I found a job at ford after 11 months , it was a small ford dealership I worked at many years before and at the time after 10 years it closed due to new failed ownership . I walked in and got the job , all new people but I had been known in the area , no physical , nothing but you are hired .

How ever even though I brought in many new customers being now a service advisor instead of a manager . I kept all customers up to date and never sold a thing they did not need . I even replace burnt out bulbs in the driveway or diagnoised problems on older cars the new younger techs did not want to bother with and these people refered other for even more work .

I had many return customers and kept all customers as valued . However after 4 1/2 months and long hours , every other day I opened the shop at 7am and left at 5 to 6 pm and everyother day it was from 8am to 7pm and everyother sat from 8 to 5 with no lunch . I was laid off because they wanted to keep some salesman who worked used cars and was there for 10 years and he knew nothing about repair service or the cars or the computer programs .

Now ford dealers have since either closed or laid off many employees so I am screwed as far as the many years at ford .

I know fords well not sales at all other than repair work sales and of the two service advisors me and the other fellow I sold more work .

I feel now like the career is over and it really is and have absolutely no interest in most jobs it this swill or new crap jobs out there .

I am good at customer service and phones but even these jobs of the many I have applied for are not interested even for the $10 per hour , they feel I will leave if I find my old sort of job or I am too damn old and there is no way to find out why since no one will tell you a thing .

so now what to do , I have not a clue , not a clue .

[SoCalDem]

22. Y'know, you may have the anwer right at your fingertips..

People are fed up with car repair places, and since you know fords, you might be able to "rent yourself out" to people who are tired of being ripped off and treated like shit.

Is there any possibility that you might be able to go into that line of work, but on your own?

[pitohui]

24. he could not buy private health insurance at his age, he would have no benefits

going out on your own is a good way to earn less than min. wage, plus you cannot buy private health insurance at any price a real person of that age could pay in most states

no vacation ever, no benefits of any kind

once you are self-employed, unless you are one of the rare lucky ones, you are doomed to a very low paying lifestyle forever, can't even borrow money a lot of times

we have so many fantasies about self employment, most people i know who are self employed are desperately poor and several of them have experienced prolonged periods of homelessness since any health issue means bankruptcy and loss of the home

let alone the last time we discussed the issue it was pointed out that the cost of tools and certifications for auto repairs is thru the roof these days, it is not 1970 any more where any sharp person who could read a book could set up shop and repair a car, it is computerized and specialized now

[blues90]

25. Only on a limited basis

Since everything is now electronic and I don;t have a place to actually do the work the best I can hope for is simply to do electrical repairs which is my strong point . I have tried to locate a repair center that does electrical repair only since now days you need tens of thousands in tools for all other work . It is broken down by departments now days . I specialized in electrical since this comes natual for me . Most techs are lost there .

[treestar]

27. Find one and report it to the Dept. of labor

The H-1B regulations:

http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/waisidx_06/20cfr655_06.html

They are full of protections for American workers.

[JVS]

17. I want to read this book by mark ames

http://www.amazon.com/Going-Postal-Rebellion-Workplaces-Clinton%C2%BFs/dp/1932360824

[Horse with no Name]

30. Unbelievably, this is the SECOND incident fearing job loss that killed people in Houston

in the last few weeks. Does this tell you how desperate the economy has become when people are KILLING others to keep their jobs?

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2007/04/08/nurse_accused_in_fatal_houston_fire/

>>>>snip
HOUSTON --A licensed vocational nurse has been arrested and accused of starting a fire in her office that killed three people and injured six others.
Article Tools

The March 28 fire spread throughout the fifth floor of a six-story building. Three firefighters were among the injured.

>>>snip
Authorities alleged that Weaver started the fire because she had neglected to finish an accreditation audit that was due to her boss, a plastic surgeon.

"She was fearful of being discharged by the doctor," Fire Department investigator James Snowden said. "Therefore, she figured that by starting a small fire, it would more or less postpone the audit information."