4-25-07 Judgment begins for Democrats

[Egalitarian]

4-25-07 Rep. Dennis Kucinich will introduce articles of impeachment against Dick Cheney. But, Cheney might not be put under legal scrutiny unless we bring the microscopes out now and contact those who will hold sway over the articles of impeachment once Dennis introduces them.

The first place the articles will go is to the House Judiciary Committee. These folks will decide whether the articles of impeachment move forward to a house vote or not. Did you find that microscope yet?

Democrats outnumber Republicans in the committee. They have 22 and 16 members respectively. With this kind of majority getting articles of impeachment out of committee should be a no-brainer, but given our party's recent track record for showing spine we should not assume anything. The Democratic members include:

Hon. John Conyers(D Michigan, Hon. Berman(D) California, Hon. Boucher
D) Virginia, Hon. Nadler(D) New York, Hon. Scott(D) Virginia, Hon. Watt(D) North Carolina, Hon. Lofgren(D) California, Hon. Jackson Lee(D) Texas, Hon. Waters(D) California, Hon. Meehan(D) Massachusetts, Hon. Delahunt(D) Massachusetts, Hon. Wexler(D) Florida, Hon. Sánchez(D) California, Hon. Cohen(D) Tennessee, Hon. Johnson(D) Georgia, Hon. Gutierrez(D) Illinois, Hon. Sherman(D) California, Hon. Weiner(D) New York, Hon. Schiff(D) California, Hon. Davis(D) Alabama , Hon. Wasserman Schultz(D) Florida, Hon. Ellison(D) Minnesota.

These democratic representatives need to hear our calls for impeachment, but so do their fellow republican committee members. A complete list of members can be found here: http://judiciary.house.gov/CommitteeMembership.aspx

You can click the name of each committee member and then link to their website where you will then find a link to e-mail them.


I wasn't quite sure how the impeachment process worked so I did a quick search and found this detailed page from the American Bar Association: http://www.abanet.org/publiced/impeach2.html

Basically, only a simple majority is required for impeachment in the house, but their vote can be better thought of as akin to a grand jury indictment. If a majority of house members vote for impeachment then the articles(specific charges) are delivered to the Secretary of the Senate for trial with the Senators themselves as the jurors. Members of the house would do the prosecuting. Conviction in the Senate requires the vote of two-thirds of the members present.

If articles of impeachment make it to the Senate my personal view is that their fate will be in the hands of the media.

I chose the title of "Judgment begins for Democrats" because for me personally, this is the last straw. If we can't at least see impeachment make it to the Senate for trial then I'm probably done with the national party for now.

May the actions of Dennis grow legs and prosper:)

Thoughts, comments?

[lonestarnot]

1. Here's to hoping kid!

:toast:

[BeFree]

18. You watch

There will be some who will reply saying that there is no hope.

Why they do that I dunno. It's stupid. And divisive. Everyone knows that only by an introduction of the facts will any advance be made against bushco, and this action is an advance.

But what they will tell you is to not advance; keep your powder dry. Don't move forward. Stay back here where it is safe!

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

2. Putting Hope And Desire Aside, This Is As Inconsequential As When Mckinney Did It.

It will serve to cause much ruckus on this board for sure, but his articles just ain't gonna be going anywhere and I think he knows that full well. If the time comes when impeachment becomes viable, strategical and tactical, then there would be a collective consensus amongst the leadership dems to initiate such a process, rather than some guy just introducing them out of nowhere on a specific date.

This is nothing more than an exercise in futility, though with good intentions and convictions. But if you're actually contemplating leaving the party if Kucinich's bill doesn't make it though, than I can't help thinking you have put way too much weight into his action and way too much expectation on its outcome. In the end it's just not gonna go anywhere and it's just gonna make him look silly, as it made Cynthia look.

May the day come, though, when our collective Dems find it prevalent that such actions are warranted and ready, and then proceed full force with the process. That just simply is not what's going to occur on 4-25-07 though. Sorry.

[saracat]

3. Yup. Well said. Kucinich is only doing this to get some attention for himself.

And in some ways it is very sad that only Kucinich could do this because he has nothing to lose. This has NO legs.

[Egalitarian]

5. Maybe I don't understand politics very well?

What benefit could Dennis possibly get out of this? Attention? Doesn't seem to me that this action would have much value unless it has the potential for legs?

But I agree, probably little harm to Dennis if it doesn't go anywhere.

[mmonk]

16. It's what they keep telling themselves

because their political heroes aren't for it. So it becomes Kucinich grandstanding.

[John Q. Citizen]

26. Bingo. Obama opts out of the Fox debate (they cheer) then gives Fox an interview and

they are silent. Why?

Because they won't speak honestly and candidly about their heroes lest the light of day dull the shine of the their particular knight in shining armour.

I don't care who is introducing impeachment in the Democratically controlled and Democratically run US house and Judicial committee. I'm just glad it's being done.

I was glad McKinney introduced impeachment into the Republican run House. Of course, the Repo controlled committee didn't do anything.

This is different because our people are in power.

[cascadiance]

19. There's a reason why poker players don't want to show their hands at the end...

... if they don't have to when everyone else has folded. It gives them more power!

Same strategies apply here. Except in our case, we're not playing poker where there's a cost to forcing them to show their hands. Why fold if there's no cost of an ante to see other folks' cards! I say we FORCE THEIR HAND (both Democrats and Republicans) and allow the public to see how they play cards! I think that's what Dennis is doing. Getting people to come out and show the hands of cards they are playing and not keep them secret from us.

The problem you have with so many "corporate" democrats is that they serve two masters, they're corporate donors and those who vote for them. It's like they're "card bluffing" all of the time, since even moreso than the Republicans, often times the agendas and wishes of these two groups are at odds with each other. They find the best way to deal with it is by doing nothing and hoping that they can spin what happens in their favor, but not having to take responsibility for it should the decision not be popular or supported by their donors.

Dennis knows this, being the less corporate guy amongst the current candidates running. He's willing to put his cards on the table, as his strategy is more consistent with his supporters wishes than many of other pols' strategies are.

[Egalitarian]

4. Thanks for your thoughts-I hope you are wrong,

but I hear ya.

Did McKinney's articles go to the 110th congress (current) or the 109th?

I've been pretty lukewarm and way left of the party for well over a decade and I think this might be the straw that could break this camels back. I'm not really attached to this particul action though(Dennis'), and it would be truer to say I'm an independant who usually votes for democrats. Politics suck. Probably I should take a break from news/DU regardless.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

6. Hey, Always Keep Hope Alive Man. And Don't Take A Break. We Need Ya To Stay On Top Of Your Game.

:)

So much to stay on top of here at the DU. If you take a break, you'll not know all the things you've missed! And there could be some good ones comin up.

[Egalitarian]

9. The corollary to

"If you take a break, you'll not know all the things you've missed!" is that when I'm at DU I never know all the things I've missed outside of DU. Actually that's not entirely correct. I'm aware of a few aspect of my life I've been neglecting due to DU and a few other sites.

And thanks for the pep on hope, but it's not really my thing anymore. Hoping/despair, optimism/pessimism, I'm working on living without these coins.

Edit to acknowledge my hypocrisy in post #4 where I said "I hope you are wrong".

[Senator]

22. Keeping H&D Aside, This Is Substantively More Than McKinney

What McKinney did was virtually symbolic. She initiated her articles into the final days of a concluding Congress, without her return to re-introduce in the subsequent Congress.

Kucinich is (it seems) introducing articles into the regular procedure in an active Congress. There are standard procedures that should require that they be acted upon by some number of fellow Congress members.

Can it be quietly scuttled? Sure, but some person(s) (subcommittee chair/members) should be forced to take a willful act to do so. It may at best be a lukewarm potato. But it should land in someone's lap.

Egalitarian is correct that the target begins on the back of Conyers, as he does have the authority to take up the articles with the full committee rather than sending it down.

Someone must choose to actively condone/defend the war crimes and more of the bushcheney regime.

Or not.

--

[mmonk]

25. True

and the fact he is a presidential candidate means there will be public discussion and exposure finally.

[snot]

7. This is a very helpful post -- pls K & R! nt

[Ghost in the Machine]

8. Hon. Cohen(D) Tennessee... is on the Subcommittee on the Constitution, ..

Civil Rights, and Civil Liberties. http://judiciary.house.gov/CommitteeMember.aspx?id=95

Congressman Cohen Wants to Bring Our Troops Home

"Washington, DC -- Mr. Speaker, during the break, I was home in my district in Memphis, Tennessee, and I spoke to 40 soldiers who had been to the Middle East. They were being honored. I asked many of them if they wanted to return. Most, nearly all, said, ``No. Why are we there and what are we accomplishing?''

I asked groups about their thoughts, and almost to a one, they said, ``Bring the troops home; don't stay the course.''

Mr. Speaker, I would submit to the President that he went to war under Donald Rumsfeld's opinion that you fight the war with the troops you have got.

Mr. Speaker, I would suggest that the President should support the troops with the bill that the Congress sends him. We have sent him a bill that supports the troops, supports the veterans and, yet, brings our troops home. We must end this foolishness in Iraq, the loss of American lives and the spending of our tax dollars in a country where we are not wanted."
http://www.house.gov/apps/list/speech/tn09_cohen/20070418.html

Washington D.C. Office
1004 Longworth HOB
Washington DC 20515
Phone: [phone]
Fax: [phone]

Memphis Office
167 North Main Street, Suite 369
Memphis, TN 38103
Phone: [phone]
Fax: [phone]

Edited: to add contact info

[Egalitarian]

10. .

[donco6]

11. And if the Dems don't deliver, you'll go . . . Republican?

These kind of ultimatums have to have a consequence, right? What is it?

[mmonk]

12. I smell a straw dog.

People who want impeachment, if you think about it given the administration is republican, are more likely never to go republican.

[donco6]

13. Exactly.

And the Dems know this. I don't want to let them off the hook, per se. But I just don't see any real consequence we can wave over their heads if they don't do what we want. Am I missing something? Is there a chance we'll all go Green en masse? Form a new party (which always works SO well)? What?

[mmonk]

15. No, not third party.

I don't know the answer. I don't know how I'll react as the truth will continue to be hidden from alot of people. All I know how to do is to fight for my rights as a citizen. So that's all I can do for now. But somehow, someway, politicians who are in office for their own personal dreams and benefits outside the interests of the people and their constituency need to feel there could be a price from all of us they use.

[mmonk]

17. Something to keep in mind. What's the fastest growing voter group?

Independents.

[mmonk]

14. Those who support the truth and the constitution with its checks

and balances, listen up. This is an opportunity to show members of congress that you want the constitution and thus your freedom defended for present and future Americans. Email, send physical letters (more impact as they can't be weeded out), and fax Kucinich in support as well as your representatives. eom

[Exultant Democracy]

20. Hum, I think this is a little premature. Why not let the oversight continue

eventually there will be a clamor for the impeachment of both of them.

[mmonk]

23. What good is oversight with no consequences?

If I knew that was a strategy, I would relax instead of take them at their word that impeachment is off the table. There were "investigations" into Iran/Contra as well.

[w4rma]

21. That's all well and good, but the Katrina victims are waiting for Kucinich's investigation.

He's the chair of the committee that has responsibility over the Katrina disaster. I'm becoming very concerned that his priorities are everywhere except that specific job.

[MonkeyFunk]

29. Which committee

does Kucinich chair?

[StarryNite]

24. Who says

good things don't happen in April?! :bounce:

[Senator]

27. "Judgement Day" is Apropos: They Must Condone or Oppose Torture/War Crimes

Sad that those who pretend to "leadership" must have such grave responsibility "thrust upon them."

But that is the crux.

We come in behind their mirrors and makers -- and perhaps the arbiters at The Hague -- on the list of those to whom they must answer.

That's what I'll be sending to the members.

---

[pat_k]

28. K&R (and email sent)

[jazzjunkysue]

30. I sent to my 2 NY reps. Everyone, send to theirs. Thanks. n/t.