Muslim contributions to society

[Truthiness Inspector]

Can we start a list?

[vadawg]

1. can we do both positive and negative or is it only one

[Truthiness Inspector]

4. The topic is "contributions" which implies a positive

but I suppose either positive or negative is fine for the sake of discussion.

[vadawg]

5. ok turkish delight for positive and violent jihad for negative :)

[alfredo]

87. qualify it with "defensive." At this time it is a defensive Jihad.

[tabatha]

2. Links

http://salems2.tripod.com/muslim_contribution_to_the_world.html

http://www.jannah.org/articles/contrib.html

http://www.1001inventions.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=main.viewSection&intSectionID=309

http://www.sipa.columbia.edu/mei/HANDOUT13.PDF


etc

[Truthiness Inspector]

6. If you don't mind, can you put your links into your own words?

What do you think about the topic personally?

[Barack_America]

3. Algebra.

Though I'm not a huge fan of it. ;)

[Countdown_3_2_1]

81. Doesn't algerbra predate islam? (nt)

[Rabrrrrrr]

7. Arabic numerals, and a symbol for zero; algrebral; decimal system; fractions with horizontal bar.

plus a shitload more contributions to math.

In some ways, Western civilization couldn't have happened without muslims, because they were the ones who saved all those ancient Greek texts that started the enlightenment period when westerners discovered them.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

10. Arabic numerals are Indian.

Although they came to the West via Arab traders, Indians get the credit for the invention.

[Vehl]

106. Well said! Arabic Numerals are actually Indian Numerals, so is the Zero an Indian Invention .nt

[Sultana]

13. +1

:thumbsup:

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

8. The scientific method.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_in_medieval_Islam#Scientific_method

[jobycom]

9. Which society, and what do you mean by Muslim?

If you are asking what Muslims have contributed to western society, I can give you a list. Algebra, Philosophy, Logic, Hindi numerals, sugar, our whole idea of romantic love and love songs, Gothic architecture, many of our ideas on banking, money, and financing, science, medicine...

Basically Europe was a superstitious backwater during the Middle Ages until they encountered Islam in Spain, Sicily, and Palestine, and then they began their discovery of science and the arts and moved toward civilization.

[devilgrrl]

11. Oil - Being the current scapegoat for all the world's problems

:popcorn:

[Sultana]

12. Belly dancing

um, it emerge from the Arab/Islamic world :D

Islamic era of the way past was amazing what went wrong?

[Loudmxr]

14. Modern centralized government.

You can talk about your Rome and all that. But they were more concerned with being an empire than actually governing. :smoke:

[dr.syntax]

25. Yes you can talk about the Roman`s and I will.

It was the Romans and Greeks before them that originated some form of democracy. All sorts of dictatorships existed including muslim ones throughout recorded history. Nazi Germany was a very centralized gov., as was Stalinist Russia. As was Egypt,Syria,Chin Dynasty,Ming Dynasty,Wang Dynasty,Aztecs and on and on and on. What was the contribution of a centralized Gov. per se , and what claim do muslims have on the creation of such ? ...DS

[Swamp Rat]

30. Don't forget about the Bushler "unitary presidency."

[TexasProgresive]

86. Great image, Swamprat

But I'd say that Cheney's the Dick and B*sh is the Tater-as in potato head.

[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Swamp Rat]

21. Don't forget the x-tian theocrats.

:)

[Swamp Rat]

20. Welcome to DU!

:hi:

[uppityperson]

22. Don't you recognize your hero? Try this larger one, and a video.

Here's the video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVynnbx1Xsc

[Name removed]

24. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

27. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[HughMoran]

31. mmmmm

I'm hungry (where's that pizza avatar?)

[Caliman73]

36. I was wondering when the pizza brigade was going to show...

Attacking a member directly and quite vulgarly and all that with a hefty 4 posts under his belt...check

Calling an entire group of people terrorists...check

Finding common ground with Dick Armey (sp) and the GOP in their "terra, terra!!" shtick...check

Calling "Us Dems" out on our foolish dismissal of Palin, because, even though he doesn't much care for her, you know she is what was it? A popular GOP personage? and attractive, even though he's not attracted to her...check.

[dr.syntax]

59. Yes I remember the DU laughing off Palin and having a...

familiar sinking feeling in my heart that once again the KNOW IT ALLS had made an obvious error in judgement. Wishful thinking. Assuming your foes for some inexplicable reason think like you do. I grew up with, fought the Viet Nam war with, have worked along side these people, these republicans, I know how they think and what motivates them. So many Democrats seem to have no way of understanding how their minds such as they are work. Oh,and I only had 4 postings under my belt. Do you think a man such as me gives a shit about things like that ? I do not, never have ,and never will. I told my 1st Sargent the day I reported in to my new Company for my second tour of duty in Viet Nam that he was an ASSHOLE and hoped he would try and pull his 45 on me so I could beat the shit out of him. He started to, but thought better of it and started screaming for some buck Sgt. to put me on crapper detail. That`s who I am. If I get tossed out of this forum tonight, so what ? ...DS

[uppityperson]

61. Odd, as most of us agree the "KNOW IT ALLS' made an obvious error in judgement with Palin

Obviously she, and McCain's turning nasty, took them out of the running.

You are sure a tough guy, aren't you. "a man such as me". Right.

[dr.syntax]

68. Why do you find it odd about Palin ? Because you agree with me?

The initial reaction was some state of ignorant bliss about McCain`s choice of Palin amongst many know it all Dems, as I said. Also, I will say that had the economy not truly crashed at that time McCain would have won the election. The GOP rallied after her, Palin`s speech at the GOP convention. Obama`s rousing acceptance speech was immediately history. The GOP pulled ahead in the polls after her speech. I was very concerned that McCain was on the road to winning the Presidency because of his choice of Palin. She did energize his campaign and anyone who says different has a memory problem. She is still a big hit amongst the GOP, and a politacaly powerful entity in her own right.
I am a loyal Democrat and a loyal American to a point with both. I was ready to sell what I had and leave the Country had the GOP won the Presidency. I felt America was becoming something so unfreindly to free thinkers and such a spy culture was upon us that I felt this is not the same Country I grew up in and fought for. I served in the Marine Corps in Viet Nam from early Jan.1968 to August 1969 with a few months off for getting my guts blown out my back, a rifle shot at very close range going in my stomach and out my back along with a large portion of my insides including my right kidney, intestines, most of my liver and I was back in action early Jan.1969. I really fought for this country and did my best and killed a whole lot of NVAs and things like that.
I have a right to my opinion as do you. I don`t mince words. Our Nation and the rest of the Western World is under attack from muslim fanatics. I wish this was not so, so very much, but we are and we have to face up to it, we have no choice but to. Pres. Obama understands this. I don`t know what else to say. You take care, ...Dr.Syntax

[Swamp Rat]

92. You did all this for America, yet you are ready to leave???

:wtf:

"I was ready to sell what I had and leave the Country had the GOP won the Presidency." - Are you really that afraid of the GOP???

:hi:

[uppityperson]

96. He is TS'd for some odd reason.

nice graphics by the way

[EmeraldCityGrl]

16. Muslims have had a huge impact on gardening

Some of the most famous gardens in the world from the Stibbert garden in Florence to the Royal Pavilion in Brighton, England have been influenced
by Muslim gardens of past.

[Blue_In_AK]

17. On a personal level

my daughter and her charming, Rugby-playing, Australian Muslim husband have contributed the very wonderful Aiman. :loveya:

[waiting for hope]

19. That is soo sweet ...

hang on to these times - they go by too fast.

[amandabeech]

93. What a cutie!

He is definitely a contribution.

[Liberal_in_LA]

99. That's a cute baby

[uppityperson]

23. Astrolabe

[Swamp Rat]

26. That's a Greek invention, as far as we know (Hipparchus?).

But, the Moors likely brought a functional one to Europe through Iberia in the 11th C.

:hi:

[uppityperson]

28. It may have been a Greek invention, but the it was developed a lot more and put into more usage due

Islam world.
http://www.astrolabes.org/

The history of the astrolabe begins more than two thousand years ago. The principles of the astrolabe projection were known before 150 B.C., and true astrolabes were made before A.D. 400. The astrolabe was highly developed in the Islamic world by 800 and was introduced to Europe from Islamic Spain (Andalusia) in the early 12th century. It was the most popular astronomical instrument until about 1650, when it was replaced by more specialized and accurate instruments. Astrolabes are still appreciated for their unique capabilites and their value for astronomy education.

[Swamp Rat]

33. Yes. That's why I said "functional."

;)

I had one myself, along with a sextant, and some telescopes... but they were ruined by hurricane Katrina. :(

[DU GrovelBot]

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[uppityperson]

32. Way back, math, science, medical science, hospitals. More recently,

helping some people find spiritual reasons for being, in a positive way. Although there are fanatics, there are also many many people who are Muslim and use Islam in a positive manner.

[Codeine]

40. Really? They invented math and science? They conceived the hospital?

I can think of a shitload of civilizations preceding them that are going to be shocked.

[uppityperson]

43. No, of course not.They did contribute a lot to those fields.Don't have to invent a field to contrbut

They did a lot of stuff for science, math, medicine, hospitals. OP asked for "contributions" and they contributed a lot in the fields of science, math, medicine and hospitals.

[Codeine]

46. Fair enough. Misinterpretation on my part. :) nt

[1]

34. the I. E. D.

outstanding on their part...

[Manifestor_of_Light]

35. Omar Khayyam of Persia (iran).

The Keeper:The Legend of Omar Khayyam -- EXCELLENT MOVIE (available from Netflix)


www.greatomar.com



Omar Khayyám was famous during his times as a mathematician. He wrote the influential Treatise on Demonstration of Problems of Algebra (1070), which laid down the principles of algebra, part of the body of Persian Mathematics that was eventually transmitted to Europe. In particular, he derived general methods for solving cubic equations and even some higher orders.

Khayyám wrote a book entitled Explanations of the difficulties in the postulates in Euclid's Elements. The book consists of several sections on the parallel postulate (Book I), on the Euclidean definition of ratios and the Anthyphairetic ratio (modern continued fractions) (Book II), and on the multiplication of ratios (Book III).

Regarding more general equations he states that the solution of cubic equations requires the use of conic sections and that it cannot be solved by ruler and compass methods.<13> A proof of this impossibility was plausible only 750 years after Khayyám died. In this paper Khayyám mentions his will to prepare a paper giving full solution to cubic equations: "If the opportunity arises and I can succeed, I shall give all these fourteen forms with all their branches and cases, and how to distinguish whatever is possible or impossible so that a paper, containing elements which are greatly useful in this art will be prepared."

The Khayyam–Saccheri quadrilateral was first considered by Omar Khayyám in the late 11th century in Book I of Explanations of the Difficulties in the Postulates of Euclid.

Eventually, Khayyám and his colleagues measured the length of the solar year as 365.2425 days. Omar's calendar was more accurate than 500 years later the Gregorian calendar. The modern Iranian calendar is based on his calculations

By constructing a revolving platform and simple arrangement of the star charts lit by candles around the circular walls of the room, he demonstrated that earth revolves on its axis, bringing into view different constellations throughout the night and day (completing a one-day cycle). He also elaborated that stars are stationary objects in space which, if moving around earth, would have been burnt to cinders due to their large mass.

[mmonk]

77. Thanks for posting that.

It was one of the first things that came to mind.

[Name removed]

37. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

69. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[devilgrrl]

38. Whirling Dervishes

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDKnx-yfcdA

[Codeine]

39. Only if you can demonstrate

that these contributions were actually driven by their Islamic faith, otherwise they're just human contributions.

[The Midway Rebel]

45. Colleges fit this requirement.

The first in the world were founded for the purpose of teaching Islamic law, medicine, geometry, math, engineering and science-- all areas in which they excelled.

[Codeine]

49. That's debatable.

It can be argued that the concept of an academy as practiced by the Greek/Roman culture is a college.

[The Midway Rebel]

53. The Greeks had nothing like a university.

Hanging at agora with Plato would have been awesome but would not have earned me a doctorate.

[Electric Monk]

41. What's the point of this thread?

Did you also post "Buddhist contributions to society - Can we start a list?" or "Jewish contributions to society - Can we start a list?" or "Mormon contributions to society - Can we start a list?" or "Agnostic contributions to society - Can we start a list?" or ""Zoroastrian contributions to society - Can we start a list?" threads that I happened to miss?

[ZombieHorde]

50. I don't understand your concern. nt

[Electric Monk]

51. Read it again then.

[ZombieHorde]

52. OK, I reread your reply, but I still don't understand why you want to know if the OP

made threads about those four other religions and agnosticism.

Perhaps you wish to make a thread about Mormon contributions to society, but don't want to make a "repeat thread?"

[Electric Monk]

55. Hard to reply without breaking the rules here...

I've read some of the OP's other posts, and I've seen a pattern. They're not really a fan of The Colbert Report, they're only pretending to be. Get my drift?

[uppityperson]

56. Are you calling the Op a troll for asking about Muslim positive contributions?

[uppityperson]

54. If someone starts a thread about homeless issues, are you confused if they don't start one about

another problem, like being sick and not having insurance?

The point of the thread is what the OP says. The OP has an interest and is looking for info. Do you wish to know about Zoroastrian contributions to society? If you do, maybe you should start one.

[ProgressiveMuslim]

74. Feel free to start them. nt

[Sebastian Doyle]

98. Mormon contributions to society?

The Osmonds

Glenn BecKKK

Spineless Harry Reid

Orrin Hatch

Yeah, not a lot of bragging rights there. :(

[Dramarama]

103. I do love Steve Young

[Codeine]

42. Only on DU would we feel obligated

to list contributions of a religion. Can you imagine the comments that would be engendered by asking for a list of Christian contributions? :rofl: Fucking stupid shit. Religion is foul.

[Electric Monk]

44. Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition

[Obamanaut]

76. +1 n/t

[Kali]

101. I agree - religion is foul. But since there has been quite the effort

to portray Islam as an enemy (just as part and parcel of defining the "other" in our ongoing activities outside of our borders) and to confuse in the minds of many simpletons that the "attacks" on us were religious fanaticism and nothing else, I think the point would be to get people to think, realize that the cultures and people that are associated with that religion aren't all running around with bombs strapped under their abayas.

[ZombieHorde]

47. Islam. Whether Islam is a postivie contribution or a negitive contrabution is obviously up to the

opinion holder.

Sharia Law.

Mosques are pretty.

[uppityperson]

48. Musée de l'Institut du Monde Arabe, Paris, VERY interesting museaum

http://www.imarabe.org/

http://www.paris.org/Musees/IMArabe/

Museum dedicated to the art and Arab and Islamic civilisation from its origins to the present day. Several objets d'art, Koranic calligraphy, miniatures, collection of contemporary Arab art. In a building built on the banks of the Seine in 1987 by Jean Nouvel and Architecture Studio, the symbolism and modernity of the architecture are the interpretation of Arab and western civilisations. Discovery in a chronological course of the many artistic expressions of this civilisation.

http://travel.nytimes.com/travel/guides/europe/france/paris/31912/musee-de-linstitut-du-monde-arabe/attraction-detail.html

Frommer's Review

Many factors have contributed to France's preoccupation with the Arab world, but three of the most important include trade links that developed during the Crusades, a large Arab population living today in France, and the memories of France's lost colonies in North Africa. For insights into the way France has handled its relations with the Arab world, consider making a trek to this bastion of Arab intellect and aesthetics. Designed in 1987 by architect Jean Nouvel and funded by 22 different, mostly Arab countries, it includes expositions on calligraphy, decorative arts, architecture, and photography produced by the Arab/Islamic world, as well as insights into its religion, philosophy, and politics. There's a bookshop on-site, a replica of a Medina selling high-quality gift and art objects, and archival resources that are usually open only to bona-fide scholars. Views from the windows of the on-site Moroccan restaurant encompass Notre-Dame, l'Ile de la Cité, and Sacré-Coeur. Guided tours start at 3pm Tuesday to Friday or at 4:30pm on Saturday and Sunday.

[LostInAnomie]

57. Stupid concept.

No group should get collective credit for the contributions or harmful actions of individuals. Islam is not responsible for all the advances in math that were made by Muslims, just like all Muslims aren't responsible for 9/11, the Taliban, or countless acts of terrorism.

[Codeine]

58. Thank you.

That was well stated.

[uppityperson]

60. I took it to mean positive contributions by Muslims. Not as a group, but what

contributions to society have been made by Muslims. Muslim contributions.

[LostInAnomie]

62. It's still a ridiculous concept.

Is the fact that a contribution is made to society by a person that happens to be a Muslim supposed to change our idea of Islam? People are not their religion. Advances in Algebra were not made because the advancer was a Muslim. They were made because they were a bright and capable person. To try to lump amazingly brilliant and talented people together and give credit for their accomplishments to a religion is a huge disservice to those individuals.

[uppityperson]

63. Since there are so many negative sterotypes (see upthread even), seems fine to ask for

positive contributions as perhaps those reading may learn something and be able to better counter those who say things like "they are fat slobs" like upthread.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=7058678&mesg_id=7059121

[LostInAnomie]

67. It's a lot easier and correct to make the connection...

... of terrorists to Islam than it is to make connections of science and math to Islam. The former were driven by their faith or at least an interpretation of it. The latter were driven by the human knowledge and intelligence of individuals with little or no influence from scriptural texts or interpretations.

Gross stereotypes like the one you listed above or wrong and ignorant, but so is disingenuously or incorrectly trying to assign accolades to a group for the accomplishments of individuals.

[proteus_lives]

65. +10

[Starry Messenger]

64. Islamic tile work

[proteus_lives]

66. Why?

What's the point to this?

[excess_3]

70. Muslim winners of the Nobel prize for physics

[Obamanaut]

71. Will there be a similar list for adherents to other religions as well,

or just muslim?

[ProgressiveMuslim]

73. Start one.

[Obamanaut]

75. No, that would be a copycat post. I was pointing out how absurd making

a list, by religion, of contributions to society.

There could also be a list, by religious affiliation, of atrocities perpetrated upon society. I can think of a couple quite easily, can't you?

[ProgressiveMuslim]

82. Most in this country, and on this forum, are completely ignorant about Islam.

I think many would find this thread interesting rather than threatening.

[Obamanaut]

89. Inasmuch as it is just one more religion among many, and as such

considered by many to be simply mythology, why would one want to point out the religion of the person who did anything whether good or ill?

Why not instead focus on the person himself (or herself.)

Gandhi did good stuff, as did MLKjr., while some say that even today there are people performing evil deeds. What difference does it really make in the overall scheme of things what their religion, or lack of one, was.

[ProgressiveMuslim]

91. Fair enough. But when entire religions and ethnic groups (Arabs) are continually portrayed in a

negative light, is there really any harm in reminding people that Muslims and Arabs exist and have contributed to the world beyond the cardboard caricature of terrorist, or as the banned poster above painted, xenophobic rug seller?

[Obamanaut]

95. Absolutely not, no harm in reminding us at all,

and whatever may be inferred from my earlier posts, I agree with what you said in this response.

There is entirely too much attaching the deeds, good or bad, to people as individuals based on their religion, race, national origin or even occupation.

And I apologize for my tone - I mean no disrespect.

edited, too many commas - now there might not be enough.

[uppityperson]

97. One might think so but it appears we are few.

Those who say "but they didn't invent" whatever miss the point that you don't have to invent a field to make major contributions to it.

[ProgressiveMuslim]

72. The scientific method...

was developed by Ibn Al Haytham.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_in_medieval_Islam

[eShirl]

78. Besides things like algebra, astronomy, poetry, architecture...

how about preserving much of classical Western Civilization's written works through the dark ages

[cali]

80. Muslims did not invent poetry

and what many people seem to be unaware of is that within different cultures, many of the same "inventions" arose independently.

[ProgressiveMuslim]

83. The OP mentioned "contributions," not inventions.

[ProgressiveMuslim]

79. The study of optics.

My family is Arab American and our kid attends a summer camp that has a theme each year. Last summer's camp was themed around the scientific contributions of Ibn Al Haytham. It was an eye-opener!

[unhappycamper]

84. 650 AD - Baghdad mathematician invents zero (0) thereby

launching algebra.

[cali]

85. actually, the concept and use of zero predates that- and in more than one culture

b

[LeftishBrit]

88. Algebra; some parts of geometry; optics; psychology of perception

Ibn al-Haytham (Alhazen) wrote an important mediaeval book on optics, and was probably the first person to propose that vision occurs in the brain rather than the eyes.

[Odin2005]

90. Optics. Gorgeous architectural calligraphy

[Kali]

94. subjective sarcastic comment:

call to prayer is way cooler than stupid bells!:rofl:

[etherealtruth]

100. My beautiful children! n/t

[Indenturedebtor]

102. I responded to an anti-semite a few weeks back on DU

who was saying that Jews are responsible for all of the evils of the world. I told him that he was a bigoted idiot and then listed a few Jewish contributions to science, music, etc.

My post was removed by the moderator.

[havocmom]

105. Your mistake was in calling him a bigoted idiot

instead of opining that his philosophy was bigoted and idiotic. See, attack the position, not the person, and ya stay within the rules. ;)

[Deja Q]

104. If I recall, they don't like usury...

[mitchum]

107. "Shoot Out The Lights" and "Pour Down Like Silver"