I do not support the death penalty under any circumstance BUT

[cali]

I understand that good, thoughtful people can disagree with me. I think they're wrong. That's all there is to it. And I think that some can be persuaded to abandon their support for it. But not if I call them murderers for their pov.

I support the right to choose as strongly as I oppose the death penalty, but I have known good thoughtful people who oppose it except for cases of rape or incest. I think they're wrong, but they aren't all raving lunatics who want to blow up planned parenthood clinics.

I'm against the war in Afghanistan, but I know good, thoughtful people who believe that our leaving is worse for the Afghanis than than our staying. I think they're wrong, but I don't think they're supporting the war because they think we should kill Muslims or because they want to put in a pipeline for oil or gas.

[Th1onein]

1. Let's talk about your second analogy.

I assume that you are talking about another post on DU where the OP says that those who support the death penalty are murderers?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6988954

The OP didn't say that those who support the death penalty also are for killing other people for monetary gain. This analogy doesn't make sense.

[cali]

2. huh? where do I say anything about

supporting the dp for monetary purposes?

[Th1onein]

4. Here is your analogy again:

I'm against the war in Afghanistan, but I know good, thoughtful people who believe that our leaving is worse for the Afghanis than than our staying. I think they're wrong, but I don't think they're supporting the war because they think we should kill Muslims or because they want to put in a pipeline for oil or gas.

The OP was against capital punishment. But he was NOT saying that those who are for it are in it for the money. Whereas, you are comparing his statements to people who are for the war being accused of being for it because of the monetary compensation of getting the pipeline for the oil. Do you see?

[cali]

14. wow. stretch much there?

My point in the OP was that those who disagree with us on many thorny issues may be wrong but demonizing them or assuming that they reached their positions due to some evil motive is even more wrong.

[Th1onein]

17. And, in turn, you demonized them, right?

Called their ideas stupid and callous, right?

Don't get me wrong--I agree with you in terms of demonizing the other side. I am the first one to pop up on DU and say that we can't win friends and influence people by calling them idiots; that we have to find a common ground, but calling people's ideas stupid and callous is just another way of demonizing those who don't agree with us.

Wouldn't you agree?

[cali]

19. calling an idea stupid and callous is not demonization. Telling people that

if they support the DP they're equivalent to Charlie Manson? That's demonizing. What I did is called derision. Not the same thing.

So, no. I don't agree. Words mean something.

[Th1onein]

22. "It's ugly callous hyperbole...."

Right, no demonization there. LOL

[DrDan]

3. I too am against the death penalty . . . but I feel no sympathy for John Allen Muhammad

[Th1onein]

5. I am against death. Period.

It is the enemy. John Muhammad is merely a pawn in the game.

[DrDan]

7. there are a few family members that would take issue with that

[Th1onein]

18. Of course they would. And that's certainly understandable.

But it still doesn't make killing another human being right, or moral, under any circumstances, as far as I'm concerned.

[jgraz]

8. Sad that you always have to include that

"I'm against the death penalty but that doesn't mean I'm on the side of the serial killer"

Part of the problem with many in the pro-DP camp (esp right-wingers) is that they almost never want to have a true, good-faith discussion on the topic.

[imdjh]

9. +1 Some people would say that we should be protesting each execution.

I'm not selective about which executions I protest. In truth, I don't physically protest any of them. I am against the DP, but not sufficiently invested in my position that I would go stand outside the prison or the governor's mansion.

I'm against the DP, but not only do I not feel sympathy for John ALlen Muhammed, I really don't care about him at all. He's not really the poster boy for why the DP is bad.

[DrDan]

15. exactly - you put better words around my feelings than I did

I could protest some . . . when I feel there is a gross injustice. I don't see this one in that light.

[SidDithers]

6. Recc'd. Well said...nt

Sid

[paulsby]

10. excellent post

i wish there were more who understood that just because somebody disagrees with you, it doesn't make them a war mongering woman hating evil wacko

[Gregorian]

11. There are multiple reasons why the death penalty should not exist.

People should not be killing each other, ever.

The government should not have the power to take life. This topic could be a long discussion. But for brevity, this is what should be the case.

Mistakes are made. The judicial system is not perfect. In fact, it is far from perfect. Innocent people can be convicted. Furthermore, I believe guilty people can indeed become innocent. And I also believe that those who have been perpetrated against share responsibility in recovering from crime. This last one is missed by most people in society. For example, I forgave Osama Bin Laden after the downing of the towers. Of course, I'm assuming he had a hand in it. Which he probably did. But look at the trouble we caused ourselves, not to mention the rest of the world, by insisting on forcing our military might on the Middle East. Trillions, gone. Depleted Uranium all over the ground. A million dead Iraqis, if true. We're still using 800,000 gallons of fuel per day, to fuel what is left of the invasion.

I just poured the foundation for my new house, an hour ago. I spent time with the concrete pumper after it was over. He thinks the government is going to take our guns away. He thinks we as citizens should be able to put down repeat sex offenders. I was appalled, and mentioned that we are a nation of laws. I bring this up because the array of mentalities out there makes it nearly impossible for us as a society to agree on things enough to bring them to fruition. I know there is a better world. And I know it's easy to accomplish. But it may never happen. One step at a time. A truthful media might be a place to start. Education might be a good place to also start. Cutting the military budget. A good leader. We have a mountain to climb. But a better world we would have.

[Fire1]

12. In my view, one cannot condone the death penalty and

call themselves "liberal." Period.

[RetroLounge]

16. +1

RL

[Winterblues]

13. I am for cotten candy and bubblegum

:silly:

[pipi_k]

20. There are times when I can't even agree with myself...

and often on the same subject.

[lonestarnot]

21. woopsie. Snort

:spray: