220-215. think about that for a moment...

[1]

if "this" bill passed by that little?

what chance would any single-payer bill have had? or a "real" public option? or any bill paying for abortions?

220-215.

do the math...

[AllentownJake]

1. Yes and what chance does this awful bill

of having of becoming even more disgusting when the Senate gets a hold of it, which is more conservative.

[BzaDem]

2. Your biggest error is asking these DKers to think.

They are not rational people that can be won over by good policy. The further the bill goes to the left, the further their demands go. The only thing that is constant is that their demands are always just to the left of the bill. There are many things that motivate these people. But policy is not one of them.

[scheming daemons]

4. +1000

[tblue]

10. Can we call a truce? Just focus on the Fox News head explosions.

Can't we just let each other on DU feel what we feel?

[BzaDem]

13. If people wish the bill were better I respect that and agree. But if people actualy want to kill

the bill and do nothing instead, then I will say how I feel about them. I am interested in politics not because it is a game but because politics is the only way policy gets enacted. I am against anyone who wants to kill the bill regardless of their political stripes.

[ThomThom]

30. Sometimes a bad bill is worse than no bill

I think this may be one of those times.
We need to rain in the insurance industry, set limits and rules. As long as we let corporations lobby our government and spend big bucks financing campaigns this is what we can expect. All is single payer stuff is just a smoke screen so that the discussion that we need never takes place. Insurance for profit is wrong, paying administrators millions to exclude people is wrong. Letting the drug companies charge outrageous prices for drugs that tax money helped create is wrong. The role of corporations in our society needs to be discussed and never will be as long as corporations are in control.

[Sebastian Doyle]

16. Once again, I must correct your typo

Your biggest error is asking these DLCers to think.

They are not rational people that can be won over by good policy. The further the bill goes to the left, the further to the right their demands go. The only thing that is constant is that their demands are always just to the left of the Republicans. There are many things that motivate these people. But the best interest of the American people is not one of them.

[Wetzelbill]

17. ridiculous nt

[CakeGrrl]

20. Intractibility and rigidity of thought are not helpful, no matter

which side of the ideological spectrum is involved.

The DK crowd says this is shit; the Freepers say this is shit.

To avoid the cries of "STRAWMAN!", I'll allow that they're coming from vastly different places in their reasoning, but how can you work with anyone who digs in their heels and opposes any starting position because it's totally not what they want? And how naive to expect that in Washington.

[Roland99]

24. A Blue Dog is not a Democrat, imo. Why don't you go form BlueDogUnderground.com?

[rug]

26. Then you should make a donation to Stupak for saving the bill.

[bluetrain]

33. ha!

[DRoseDARs]

35. Ouch. That'll leave a mark.

Hadn't thought of that before; you're probably right, he probably helped the bill gain a few votes with that amendment and given how close the vote was...

[undeterred]

28. And here I thought Republicans were the problem.

Silly me.

[KharmaTrain]

36. +1001

[lapfog_1]

3. We may or may not be a center right country (I don't think we are)

but we sure have a center right government, despite all of the cries of "socialism" from the teabagging idiots.

[C_Lawyer09]

29. We Are

Because the Dems have ceded so much ground to the Repubs, as talk radio has picked up steam, that we've allowed the argument to be hijacked and framed by false premises, none which can/will be disproven without some time/energy/reading spent on the listening parties part. Think about it, the word liberal has been demonized. Most every media outlet frames every political argument, disagreement in a point to counterpoint format. In this case perception does equal reality unfortunately.

[bigtree]

5. what's worth preserving in this bill

. . . could survive in this Congress in standing legislation or as a rider on other bills (I believe).

What's worth preserving in this bill to you.?

[BzaDem]

8. Ban on pre-existing condition discrimination. Subsidies for 96% coverage. Public option.

In short, everything. None of it can survive as a rider on other bills. You can't ban discrimination on the basis of pre-existing conditions without a mandate. Subsidies would be nothing without the ban on pre-existing conditions. The public option wouldn't help a huge amount without the subsidies. It is all interconnected.

[bigtree]

11. I"m not convinced that the momentum for the preexisting condition provision

. . . wouldn't allow the measure to survive in some compromise form.

I'm really pessimistic about the form and substance of the 'public option' the SoHealth and Human Services will devise in 2013. The PEC is the only thing I think is worth preserving and I don't believe we need the rest of the hogwash to advance that concern.

[BzaDem]

14. Without the preexisting condition provision, health insurance is useless.

And that provision can't work without the mandate and subsidies. So I want it all.

[Barack_America]

6. I don't have to be Nate Silver to calculate those odds....

ZERO.

[tblue]

7. And would you really want to hear Michelle Bachmann gloat?

I for one would have losty mind.

[cynatnite]

9. I swear some here would rather cut off their nose to spite their face.

The repukes fought like hell and they still fucking lost. I'm celebrating that.

[bluestateguy]

12. Single payer would be lucky to get 150

More likely it would get 100-120.

For the record, I also favor single payer, but I also live in the real world.

[Birthmark]

15. Yeah, I guess the support of 2/3rds of Americans...

...just isn't enough to get a good health care reform bill.

[CTLawGuy]

25. those 2/3 of Americans

have to make their voices heard at the next election. If you favor single payer, run for office, or find someone who will who favors single payer.

[1]

18. it saddens me here that some think a "-d" behind their name means "unity for our cause."

not true.

these folks are elected representatives of their districts/states.

if a particular (-r) bill or a (-d) bill helps the local population out, then their vote will be for that help.

i think the concept of "party votes" here is pretty fucked up.

[JCMach1]

19. a health bill only Bob Dole could love...

yeah, it's better than nothing... barely.

What's worse, I don't see any President willing to touch the issue again in my lifetime...

[LostInAnomie]

21. That's not what is important though.

What is important is that they get their chance to show righteous indignation, wag their fingers, and show that they are the one's with "principles". God forbid they even have to make the hard decision of voting for something that isn't perfect

[quaker bill]

22. I am surprised that they brought it

to a vote with this slim of a margin. I would have expected them to shoot for more of a 230 vote compromise to leave a tad more room for error.

It is clear that the leadership went for everything they could possibly pass.

[CTLawGuy]

23. building something

is the hardest thing in politics and governance.

A lot harder than killing something, geting rid of something, or sabotaging something.

unfortunately, this means the blue dogs have all the power.

[OnionPatch]

27. I'm pragmatic.

I think of this as the "better than nothing" bill. And I'm glad it passed. The nature of a democracy is that not everyone gets exactly what they want all the time.

[Maraya1969]

31. As far as I am and was concerned I just cared that whatever it was would pass

OK so no abortion. later they can fund it is some other bill. (Of course I do not know how much an abortion costs now. I had one many years ago but I think they are free at Planned Parenthood)

The point is don't cut your nose off to spite your face. This to me seems like a process and you have to just go through with it.

I think that whether abortion providing should be put in the final bill depends on one thing. Will it cause the bill to pass or fail? What the hell good is a good bill that provides for abortions if it doesn't fucking pass??

[Stinky The Clown]

32. Did it ever occur to you that it might have been exactly the same?

Of course, we'll never know.

[Horse with no Name]

34. The bill passed by that little

because the leadership wanted YOU to think it was hard work and they did the best they could do.
Sorry. Not buying it.

[Luminous Animal]

37. So you admit it is a sham public option.

[Mixopterus]

38. Alright

And what if this upsets the general population as it has the potential to do nothing while simultaneously possessing the potential to hurt people via a mandate to buy into a PRIVATE insurer. In the eyes of the common guy it is likely to play right into the "government is bad" meme and cripple any real health care reform in the future.