Shit, shit, shit: Army: Suspect said `Allahu Akbar!' before shooting

[cali]

FORT HOOD, Texas – The base commander at Fort Hood says soldiers who witnessed a shooting rampage that left 13 people dead reported that the gunman shouted "Allahu Akbar!" before opening fire at the Texas post.

Lt. Gen. Robert Cone told NBC's "Today" show on Friday that suspected shooter, Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan, made the comment, which is Arabic for "God is great!" before the rampage Thursday that also left 30 people wounded.

Military officials say they are still piecing together what may have pushed Hasan, an Army psychiatrist trained to help soldiers in distress, to turn on his comrades.

Cone says Hasan was not known to be a threat or risk.

<snip>

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091106/ap_on_re_us/us_fort...

I'm concerned about attacks on U.S. Muslims, particularly those serving in the military.

[geckosfeet]

1. Of course. He probably screamed 'jihadi jihadi - die american pigs'

the whole time as well.

[seabeyond]

38. do you know, it might just be what it is. there is nothing to defend. no need

to dismiss, ignore or pretend, with the truth

[Hannah Bell]

41. lol. you're funny. yes, we know both the government & the military are

steadfast purveyors of "truth".

Minitru, in fact.

[seabeyond]

58. like that is what i said. hey hannah... do you ever discuss the post or change it up to

your false argument every single friggin time.

what a waste of time.

[Odin2005]

74. That poster gets his news from Trotskyite websites. No use arguing with him.

[seabeyond]

84. i never argue with this poster. learned long ago, waste of time. unfortunately

not so unusual to receive a reply from this poster, lol.

[Hannah Bell]

115. "never"? lol.

[seabeyond]

125. did it with you once.... wink. nt

[Hannah Bell]

134. "once"? lol.

[dionysus]

69. when you operate from the frame that everything you hear 100% of the time is a lie, you're paranoid.

[geckosfeet]

127. Thanks for the free analysis.

[Judi Lynn]

120. Thank God George H W Bush told us all about the terrifying baby incubator murders,

which helped rally "us" to back his attack on Iraq, and thank God for all the crappola _{George W. Bush} and everyone in his administration said, and got Tony Blair, etc. to say, to lie us into HIS attack on Iraq. Way, what about those WMD's? I nearly laughed my head off when the pResident pretended to be looking under tables, and in closets for the missing WMD's. What a fabulous wit.

I can't wait until the next time they tell us some more stuff they want us to think, also. I live for it. I can tell you do, as well.

[seabeyond]

126. I live for it. mmmm. not really. what i do though, is set back and listen

and then listen some more.

today, on bbc i heard two contradictory reports. he was a bad doctor. he was a good doctor. pretty big difference there

since i dont have a story already created, i dont have to fit anything in

[Barack_America]

60. And yet if a Christian snapped and screamed "God help me!"?

Which is essentially what Allahu Akbar (God is great) means.

The ignorance in this country of Islamic cultures is pathetic. Do we not remember praising Iranian youth for shouting this very same phrase from their rooftops just a few months ago?

[TankLV]

61. Probably did a shout out to his "brother" Hussein Obama, too - I HEARD it!!!

Yeah, I TILLMAN trust TILLMAN what TILLMAN the TILLMAN government TILLMAN says TILLMAN...

[Gman]

2. Why is that different than saying

"May God have mercy on my soul" or something similar? It's not. It's something someone that's religious would say before doing something they know will probably result in their own demise.

[cali]

3. Perhaps, but that's not my point.

[napi21]

6. Different because it accentuates the hate & fear of Muslims!

I'm reall sorry that he said that IF HE DID. I've worked with Indians, Pakistani's, Iranians, etc, and they were all great friends. All this does is make people afraid of them.

[MH1]

7. It's different because "Allahu Akbar" will generate a certain reaction here

That "May God have mercy on my soul" would not.

Your point is rationally correct but people don't react rationally. This case is bad because it amplifies the divisiveness of the event. The guy went nuts and killed a lot of people - no different than many other cases of people going nuts and killing other people - but being a Muslim it will be seen differently.

[cali]

9. That's it in a nutshell.

And it's what I believe happened.

[BennyD]

29. "the guy went nuts"

Are you a psychologist? According to the reports from the base, Nader Hasan was. I don't think he "went nuts." Military personnel who witnessed the carnage and the aftermath, have stated that Hasan was very deliberate and calculating as he killed. In fact, he managed to reload at least two times during murder spree and the shots he fired were very well placed - according to one military official, this indicates that he (Hasan) maintained a high level of focus as he committed these murders.

According to at least one fellow soldier, Hasan said that "Muslims had a right to rise up attack the U.S." Given all of these things and his apparent battle cry of "Allah Akbar," my thoughts are that, this guy didn't "go nuts," but instead came to a place in his thinking that, the best way to "exercise" his views was to murder those who didn't share his.

Just my 2-cents.

[TornadoTN]

31. But there are also reports that he was a "highly dedicated soldier"

"A soldiers soldier" as one of his PTSD patients put it.

What happened to this guy to put him out there like this? Sure, a wild shift to fundamentalist Islam could possibly do it. But it just doesn't fit the initial profile of this guy. Perhaps his own exposure to the atrocities of this war by proxy through his patients pushed him too far and broke him. Or perhaps even that pushed him further into the extreme tenants of his religion. I just think its too early to dismiss any of the possibilities.

[BennyD]

40. I agree. n/t

[BennyD]

55. I just saw a video on CNN

showing Hasan in a convenience store hours before the shooting spree. CNN reporter says that the store owner said Hasan "seemed normal" and was even "smiling" at times during his brief discussion with him.

[cali]

47. There's a lot of evidence that he "went nuts"

he was someone with poor social skills and a troubled work history at WRMC. He was deeply perturbed about being sent into a war zone. He had been picked on ostensibly because he was a Muslim. None of that excuses him. Neither does "going nuts". He's a mass murderer, but there's more evidence that he was mentally unstable than there is that he was political. That he was organized and deliberate does NOT mean that he was not deranged.

[BennyD]

62. "poor social skills"

Not according to the sales clerk at the store where he often stopped before heading to the base. The clerk says that he and Hasan often talked and that he sometimes called Nasan by his first name - indicating they had developed a friendship. In addition, someone who is in the field of psychology has to have social skills galore. When your job is not just to talk with people, but talk with them about deep emotional stuff - you have to be a social creature!!!

spelling edit.

[cali]

66. bzzzt. sorry, that's just erroneous. one does not have to have

"social skills galore" to be a psychiatrist. He was reprimanded at WRMC because of having trouble with patients.

[NoSheep]

76. I had heard he was NOT an MD but had a degree from VaTech in

some sort of bio- something or other. Did you hear that too? Just curious. Also, I thought Rachel Maddow did an excellent job last night with this horrible story.

[TicketyBoo]

119. That was his undergraduate degree

in biochemistry (if I recall correctly).

He went on to get his MD at military educational facilities, the way I understand it. Yes, he is a doctor.

[amandabeech]

121. His B.S. (undergraduate degree) was in biochemistry, a good major for those going into medicine.

He receeved his M.D. (medical doctor) degree from the U.S. armed services health science university in Bethesda, MD. It is connected with Bethesda Naval Hospital and Walter Reed Army Hospital which are in the same area.

Hasan did his psychiatry training there, as well, which took several years after receiving his M.D.

Hasan has been in school or in training for a very long time.

[NoSheep]

132. Thanks for that information, both of you.

NoSheep

[amandabeech]

133. You're welcome! n/t

[BennyD]

85. Sorry, but I disagree.

[AllieB]

100. It's psychologists/therapists that usually have better social skills.

Psychiatrists are MDs who dispense medicine and are usually more analytical.

[amandabeech]

122. I agree. nt

[Dreamer Tatum]

65. One shard of evidence in favor of nuts is THAT HE KILLED 12 PEOPLE.nt

[Barack_America]

67. What do you think people who "go nuts" look like?

Must they be screaming and running around?

To "go nuts" means to lose one's connection with reality. It does not prevent someone from carrying out a task methodically.

[BennyD]

82. True, but

just as we don't want to jump to conclusions on a motive, lets not jump to the conclusion that this had nothing to do with an ideology either. That's all I'm saying.

[MH1]

88. Yes and no

not a psychologist, but

"thinking that, the best way to "exercise" his views was to murder those who didn't share his." = nuts, in my book.

"Nuts" is a colloquial expression and I am using it colloquially.

[BennyD]

91. touché (n/t)

[TicketyBoo]

116. Well, I take that phrase differently.

I take that phrase to mean that the person is doing violence in the name of God, and I believe most people take it that way.

That puts an entirely different light on the phrase, and I do believe that is the way it is used in violent incidents by Muslims.

[SIMPLYB1980]

8. That is just as disgusting as saying Allah Akbar.

Especially when you start killing innocent people.

[patrice]

10. Too bad there won't be many who will point this out, especially any other Military counselors etc.

[mmonk]

4. In the military, not so much due to the incident and heightened awareness.

In the public is where I believe the risk is.

[cali]

5. Yeah, you may be right.

[BolivarianHero]

11. Hopefully, people aren't as stupid as you'd think...

The guy's Timothy McVeigh with a Koran, and not a typical Muslim.

[cali]

12. Hopefully.

But there's an awful lot of bigotry toward Muslims and those of Middle Eastern descent already in this country. I fear this will exacerbate it.

[leftynyc]

86. And I remember how many

on the left tried to paint rush and all the schmucks on the right with what mcveigh did.

[BolivarianHero]

93. Why not?

The rhetoric of far-right trash radio does play a role in fueling people like McVeigh. Just like Stalin's decision to go back to the Imperial-era's anti-gay and sexually repressive policies so that he could go after his political enemies is a key reason for much of the anti-gay bigotry that exists in Eastern Europe and Russia to this day.

[leftynyc]

95. Are you going to be surprised

when all you hear all weekend is this murderer being joined at the hip with the jihadists? Same shit, different ox being gored.

[TheCowsCameHome]

13. Why do these shooters take so many down with them?

Why didn't he just blow his own head off?

[BolivarianHero]

15. Very simple.

Misery loves company. I know this is ridiculously trivial given the gravity, but it's the same reason why you may rub your shitty mood off on others if you went through a bad break-up, flunked out of school, or got fired.

[Bucky]

111. Perfectly said. Hate seeks to replicate itself.

There's probably other psychological stuff inside that psycho stuff---emasculated incompetent man seeks to feel like a man by firing off his guns; powerless loser tries to "cure" his powerlessness by affecting change or making his mark on a community that overwhelms his identity. But it's obviously worse than mere graffiti.

[Arkansas Granny]

22. Why do people who commit suicide kill their families first? You can't explain

the actions of someone who is apparently mentally unstable.

[BennyD]

30. Hatred is an empty stomach that can't be filled....that's why.

[Barack_America]

70. Most don't. Have you been following the rash of suicides in the army?

Most soldiers simply take their own lives when they can't bear the thought of going or of going back.

This guy took a different path, obviously. Yet the military will probably focus on why this guy performed a mass killing, rather than why servicemen (and some servicewomen) are killing themselves left and right to avoid these wars.

[Bucky]

112. Hopefully they won't.

The way Rachel Maddow tied this horror into the silent horror of military suicides in the past few years made the connection seem so natural. Hopefully this quick a tie-in will impact the coverage from the sheep at CNN.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

14. Yeah, and Lt. Gen. Robert Cone said they've not confirmed yet if he really did

I don't think it's too much of a stretch to imagine the good Lt Gen Robert Cone is just putting off the inevitable. Admit it, address it and deal with the situation.


<snip>
Lt. Gen. Robert Cone said officials had not yet confirmed that the suspected shooter, Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan, made the comment, which is Arabic for "God is great!" before the rampage Thursday, which left 30 people wounded, including the gunman.

An imam from a mosque Hasan regularly attended said Hasan, a lifelong Muslim, was a committed soldier, gave no sign of extremist beliefs and regularly wore his uniform at prayers.
<snip>
http://www.statesman.com/news/content/gen/ap/US_Fort_Ho...

[mmonk]

If that is the case, they acted irresponsibly.

[Robb]

20. Same general who said the shooter was dead, IIRC. nt

[Bucky]

114. I'd suggest cutting him slack here.

The general was very direct and candid in his press conference last night. We don't know whether or not he understandably got bad information early on in the chaos of a horrible moment. This was one of his own men doing this killing and they even had 2 or 3 other men in investigative custody yesterday.

His post was just a hairsbreath away from having a much worse tragedy. His composure under that moment was striking.

[Hepburn]

16. After the "investigation" into the death of Pat Tillman...

...do you really trust anything said by the military?

[cali]

17. No, but it really doesn't matter. It's being widely reported.

Whether he said it or not, a lot of people will believe he said it.

Fuel for the fire.

[Hepburn]

23. Yeah, sad but true, you most likely are correct. n/t

[el_bryanto]

18. Well they are the only source of information on this one

Unless you think the incident was staged somehow?

Bryant

[Hepburn]

24. Wow...that's a leap.

I think the incident was staged?

[el_bryanto]

27. OK - then in what points do you think the Army is being untruthful and, other than

a general mistrust of the Army, what evidence do you have that they are lying?

[Hannah Bell]

44. other than it always does, you mean?

[el_bryanto]

63. Yes other than that. n/t

[Hepburn]

87. What evidence do you have that they are telling the truth?

[JNelson6563]

19. It's really too bad we can't round up all the fundamentalist

extremists from every religion, ship them all to an island and let 'em kill each other in the name of their god. It would certain spare the rest of us their fear & loathing.

Julie

[rhett o rick]

33. Tell me you are not serious Julie. nt

[Rebubula]

37. Meh...

...I would sign onto that idea as well.

Many of us would just like to get rid of people that continue to believe old mythology and use it as a basis of oppression and divisiveness.

But...it is just a pipe dream....

[JNelson6563]

51. Aren't you tired of innocent bystanders dying?

They are a clear and present danger to society, all of society that doesn't believe exactly as they do.

Mind you I don't say "all believers", no. Just the lunatics who think it's a good idea to kill those who don't think/believe *exactly* as they do.

Julie

[rhett o rick]

78. So just exactly how would you identify these people that you want to "round up"?

I have an aversion for the word "round up". As far as "am I tired of innocent people dying?", what kind of question is that? What do you think? But I am very cautious of reactions like "lets round up all the ______ (fill in the blank)".

[JNelson6563]

81. It was a mostly flippant comment

One of those kind of thoughts it can be fun to indulge in, you know, a fleeting moment. I hadn't really made the comment after finishing my thesis on the topic so I am unprepared (and frankly not interested enough) for a thorough analysis of the notion.

Maybe another day. Today, I am content to write them off as lunatics and hope it's a quiet day in regard to lunatic activity (i.e. killing others).

Julie

[rhett o rick]

97. I completely understand

and should not have used you to take out my frustrations. I agree it would be nice to fix the problem with the wacko fundys in the world.

Peace

[Hepburn]

90. You could start with the following:

Anyone who voted for Michelle Bachman...

[rhett o rick]

96. Ok I am in. nt

[mountainvue]

21. I'm sorry but this is starting to seem a little

too Lee Harvey Oswald for me. I'm sorry for the victims and their families. I hope that we find out what the hell really happened there.

[CTyankee]

25. I was having a flashback to "Dr. Strangelove" except with a Muslim twist.

Sterling Hayden's crazed RW nut...

[cali]

26. I honestly don't think it's that hard to figure out.

the guy went nuts and took a lot of people down. I don't think it had much to do with his being a Muslim.

[TornadoTN]

28. This whole thing is either one big fuck-up by the miltary or something else is going on

I'm really skeptical of all of this and I'm not a :tinfoil: type person.

I understand the confusion during the event, but the way the story shifted and changed last night, it just really seems odd. First the guy is dead (confirmed by a three-star general) and then he's alive again in stable condition. Then comes all of this.

I just hope that they don't botch the investigation and we get to the bottom of this, wherever it may lead.

[rhett o rick]

35. Yes just like what really happened the JFK or MLK or RFK. The gov will give us a report. nt

[BadgerKid]

32. Ah, yes...conveniently anonymous soldiers.

I can only imagine what kind of anti-Muslim frenzy our armed forces have been whipped up into.

[rhett o rick]

34. Any explanations on how he shot close to 50 people before being subdued? nt

[TheCowsCameHome]

36. Good question.

I was wondering that, too.

[onenote]

42. soldiers at fort hood don't carry weapons. He had two guns and an fishbowl of unarmed targets

how long do you think it takes to fire off forty or fifty rounds?

[Soylent Brice]

89. not true. my sister is a dental specialist at Ft. Hood.

and she is required to carry her sidearm at all times.

she spent all afternoon and evening yesterday tending to gunshot wounds.

[guardian]

104. Bullshit!

1st Bullshit: Dental specialists DO NOT carry sidearms at all times.

2nd Bullshit: Dental specialist DO NOT tend gunshot wounds. That's what PHYSICIANS, NURSES, EMTs are for.

So is anything else you said true?

[KathyTeaches]

105. Horse Hockey!

NO ONE on bases carries sidearms at all times except for security personnel in performance of their duties. PERIOD!

I wonder what type of sidearm she supposedly carries?

[rhett o rick]

107. Dental Floss, duh! nt

[TornadoTN]

43. They are saying now that some of the victims may have been "Friendly Fire"

As in, responding Officer's and MP's may have inadvertently shot innocents in their engagement with the shooter.

[TorchTheWitch]

46. two semi-automatic handguns with extra clips

shooting in a room filled with unarmed people who most likely hit the dirt or otherwise tried to get out of harm's way. Not exactly difficult to do and it could have been a shitload worse.

[tekisui]

50. Some of the victims were shot by the security guards when they arrived.

Also, the close proximity of the shooting allowed from ricochets that hit more people.

[SIMPLYB1980]

57. Not that hard a thing to do when those you are

attacking are unarmed and you have practice with your weapon. A few clips would hold more than enough ammo to do that. 4*15=60 so he only had to change his clips four times and could still have missed 10 times. I also understand he had a rifle so that could mean no reloading at all.

[mmonk]

59. A lot of people in a confined space is my understanding of events.

[slackmaster]

77. Because he chose an unsecured area on a base where weapons are prohibited

Except those in use by police and sentries, and there weren't any police or sentries in the immediate area.

[rhett o rick]

108. You seem certain that he did all the damage. nt

[Hannah Bell]

39. of course he did, cali. that would go with the story about "violent internet posts,"

wouldn't it?

[Name removed]

52. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Barack_America]

71. Allahu Akbar (God is great) is not a violent expression.

[TicketyBoo]

128. It is when

you're shooting people in the name of God.

[WeDidIt]

45. I wonder what praising of Jesus Scott Roeder uttered

as he murdered George Tiller?

[arcadian]

48. I'm calling bullshit on this one.

DoD spinmeisters got a hold of this one.

[cali]

53. It may well be bullshit. Doesn 't matter.

It will still have a negative impact.

[Barack_America]

72. Why? You wouldn't exclaim "God help me" before doing such a thing?

I don't doubt that he said it. It would make sense for him to have said "God is great" before carrying out such an act. Whether or not he said it, in fact, could be an important clue to whether he was sane when he carried out this attack.

[Orsino]

94. "Acid is groovy"? n/t

[Judi Lynn]

123. THAT's a Hall of Famer. They wouldn't tell these whoppers if there weren't so many idiots

who believe crap like that.

I remember that one! It was followed by "Kill the pigs." Those damned hippies!

[Orsino]

124. I dunno.

It just means "God is great." It's just so damned stereotypical, though, that my suspicions are aroused by this being pointed out by any military spokescritter.

[HughMoran]

49. :facepalm:

As stupid as this sounds, I thought "oh, no " when I heard his name on the radio.

[cali]

54. It doesn't sound stupid at all. My first thought was "I hope this wasn't

a Muslim".

[NoSheep]

99. Exactly. And then I instantly thought of another group of people who were probably thrilled.

[HughMoran]

101. I wonder why an individual would want to promote hate against "his" people

It just doesn't make sense - grrrr!

[tavalon]

102. I think he was insane, therefore, I don't think he thought about that

[TicketyBoo]

129. Me, too.

[backscatter712]

56. Yeah, the teabaggers are gonna be going apeshit now.

Watch the hate groups and militias kick up by a few notches...

And yeah, they're gonna be focusing on the fact that he's Muslim. That's how bigotry rolls.

Never mind that this is actually an incident more like Columbine - the classic disturbed person "going postal."

[bullwinkle428]

64. Like the "Nuke Mecca Now" crowd needed any more fuel for their "fire of stupidity"!

[TankLV]

68. Of course, this is all barack HUSSEIN Obama's fault, ya know...

being kenyan/jordanian/muslin...

[slackmaster]

73. Of course they're not going to admit that they knew Hasan was a threat

There are plenty of indications that he was having significant problems.

[Odin2005]

75. Oh crap. This is not going to be good.

EDIT: I see the conspiracy nuts are already out.

[slackmaster]

79. I see it as potentially good as a source of dark entertainment

Let the weeping, wailing, bleating, braying, and hand-wringing commence.

[OHdem10]

80. Is this not the most commonly used Muslim prayer petition.

When a pilot's plane was crashing, he screamed the same thing.

"God is Great".

I consider it similar to some Catholics"Jesus, Mary and Joseph".

[Name removed]

83. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LanternWaste]

92. For approximately the same reason that many Americans yell...

For approximately the same reason that many Americans yell "Jesus Christ!" or "Oh God!", or "God Damn!"when the adrenaline gets going?

[NoSheep]

98. Because they have lost their mind?

[TicketyBoo]

131. Because he was killing

American soldiers in the name of God so they couldn't go kill Muslims.

Anyway, that is my take on it. And, no, it's not racist or religious intolerance. It's based on what is being reported, the fact that he approved of suicide bombers taking out "enemy" soldiers, unaware. Sounds very similar to what he was attempting.

[justiceischeap]

103. This stinks of "suicide by cop" so it would make sense for him to shout this

Especially if he is a practicing Muslim thinking he was about to die.

[Bucky]

109. No, suicide by cop doesn't involve murder a dozen innocent bystanders. It's terrorism.

Suicide by cop refers to the tortured souls who jump out suddenly and point water pistols at cops, or do something else to bring harm onto themselves. He died while still trying to harm more people who just happened to be in the wrong waiting area at the wrong time.

[GeorgeGist]

106. If only he'd been ...

a Christian.

[proteus_lives]

110. You're going to get a lot of negative responses.

I really don't get the "I hoped it wasn't a muslim, I falmpalmmed when they said his name" meme.

I get the feeling that FR is giddy right about now. But before you get all righteous, if the shooter had been a baptist preacher then on DU you have a hundred gleeful threads about how horrible Christians are.

I don't care if he was muslim. He's a mass-murdering asshole who only deserves a small concrete room until they stick the needle in.

[The Straight Story]

113. It's only inciteful and hate speech when it is against anyone other than christians

You must have missed that memo.

Go on RW sites and bash Muslim folks, you get brownie points. Go on liberal sites and bash Christians you get brownie points.

It is like a mirror that no one wants to look in to.

[frogmarch]

117. Not known to be a threat? WTF!

Red flags were popping up all over with this guy, and had been for a long time. The military should have suspected he might be ready to blow.

[LynneSin]

118. Someone from DU had family at the base and rumor has it that wasn't what he was screaming...

but putting "I'm not going back there" in the nightly news won't rile the masses up in a frenzy like `Allahu Akbar!'

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

[spanone]

130. has this been confirmed? it really doesn't matter...all media has printed/spoken of it as truth.