Too expensive: a list of things that used to be affordable for the average person

[JanMichael]

but are now so ridiculously over priced that they have become luxuries:

Television. Everyone used to get the same channels...for free. You brought the TV home, plugged the sucker in, and waa lah...the same 4 or 5 channels everyone else had.

Pets. Get a mutt, go to the vet and get it spayed or neutered, vaccinated...and enjoy him or her for years-- and they enjoyed us. Now? Oh hell no. Get a mutt from the shelter (huge adoption fee) spay or neuter (either pay hundreds, or try to get to a humane society deal), vaccines for a hundred bucks a year, blood tests...food? Purina USED to be good...now it's full of additives from China that make it risky...but, you can get expensive food (pay now or pay the vet later! Kid you not, that's what they advertise)-- blah blah blah...they are a luxury.

Phone...used to be you had a phone, and got charged for long distance per minute. Now? Tons of plans that are had to try to figure out....oh, hell you know the drill...

The doctor? Used to be able to call his or her nurse, make an appointment, and either go see them, or have them come over. Now? What a freaking joke. I can't even touch this one. It's disgusting.

I know there are many more people that can add to this list...face it, Life in America has just become a giant ponzi scheme and most of us are scrambling to even try to keep up.

By the way, for anyone that wants to tout the "longer lives of animals or humans...." bullshit. My folks cat is still alive after 18 years and went to the vet a couple of times when it was younger. She is happy and looks like she's 10. So did my cat when I was a kid, so did my dogs, and my pet duck lived to be almost 15. Our life spans in America haven't improved a whit in years.

This country is a joke.

[Hello_Kitty]

1. Remember when housing was supposed to be no more than 1/4 your income?

That became a joke during the 90s, unless you wanted to live crammed in a small apartment with 4 other people.

[kestrel91316]

35. I'm in a 1-BR apartment and it's 75% of my take home.

[imdjh]

58. The funny thing is that if you pay $30,000/mo, then you're OK

But if you pay $1500/mo you're screwed.

Seriously, you need to think about moving to Florida. The Gulf of Mexico is warmer in the dead of winter than the Pacific Ocean is any time of the year, and the housing prices are reasonable.

[kestrel91316]

88. I'm not licensed in FL. And besides, I HATE the place, lol.

I'm leaning towards Iowa.

[cyberswede]

256. Here's a nice place in Iowa for you...

This can be yours for under $175,000 in Iowa. :)

[BrklynLiberal]

131. I remember in high school economics, that is what they taught us.

[Initech]

200. I cant even afford that. Fuck paycheck to paycheck.

[XemaSab]

2. You forgot houses

In the 1950's one MAN working at a factory could afford to buy a house and keep a wife and four kids.

Now a man and a woman working in an office for $30 an hour each are hard pressed to afford a hovel in some parts of the country.

[JanMichael]

4. Thank you!

Adding that to the list! Wife's parent's live in what used to be a blue collar neighborhood-- the neighbor across the street was a security guard. Wife stayed home, and they had a little double wide at a nice beach.

Now? That house is more than 300,000 dollars....and we can't afford it, even though we both are sitting on degrees.

[bvar22]

41. That same man, working a blue collar job could also:

*pay off that house and own it outright

*Provide good Health Care to his family

*Raise several children in comfort

*Send them to State College

*Take a REAL vacation every year

*Own and operate two cars, one relatively new

*Save enough to retire in comfort


In the 60s and 70s, anyone could attend a State University and graduate DEBT FREE if they were willing to work part time.


All of those things were common in the 50s, 60s, and 70s.
We could have ALL those things again IF we had a Political Party that actually reprsented Americans who Work for a Living.

[JanMichael]

69. Exactly

my inlaws did just that.

[Bette Noir]

190. And retire with a pension.

If you were civil service, like my folks, you could retire at 55. Since the house was paid off and the kids were out of school, that's what they did.

[hunter]

206. I graduated from college debt free.

I got some money from my parents who were nowhere near "affluent," some from my grandparents, a few state and federal grants, and some from working.

In comparison to today's college costs, college was almost free.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

245. We weren't blue collar, but that sounds like my family...

and I've been thinking about it a lot lately. I NEVER heard my parents complain or worry about health-care -- my father was a county government employee and the four of us were covered, and covered well. We didn't live in a McMansion, but had a modest home in great neighborhood with a real sense of community. We didn't vacation on the Amalfi Coast, but we did hit the DE/MD beaches every year for a week, and took lots of day trips and weekend getaways to historic sites. My father and stepfather have both passed away, but my father's wife and my mother are taken care of, thanks to government pensions. It boggles my mind how out-of-reach things are now for so many.

[Sirveri]

11. My mother can't seem to understand why I couldn't buy a house!

Turns out I didn't want to live in a studio sized condo in one of the worst parts of Oakland.

[GreenStormCloud]

29. A typical 1950s home was about 1,000 square feet.

And no central air conditioning, no insulation in the walls or attic. Small kitchen. No space for a freezer. No space for a laundry room. Anybody here really want to live in a 1950s house?

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

33. I live in an 1880s house.

It's about 1,000 square feet; it has no central air conditioning, no insulation in the walls or attic. Small kitchen. No space for a freezer. No space for a laundry room. But the mortgage payments are less than many people's car payments; and I don't really need any of those things, except that this year I'll take advantage of the energy tax credit and get the place insulated.

It's not such a hardship to have a small kitchen and no central air conditioning. Really.

[Canuckistanian]

103. Same here

Actually, it was a church converted to a two story house with a basement. 3,000 sq. feet total.

Built in 1886. There are scorch marks on the roof beams.

I heard from the former owner that it was from a fire in the year 1900. A mouse had chewed some matches and ignited them.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

40. I live in a small 1950s house

Actually, it's an early 1960s house. It's less than 1,100 square feet, with no central air conditioning, little insulation, small kitchen, no space for a freezer or laundry room. The house is in California and during the housing bubble I had realtors coming to the door and offering to sell it for $600,000 or more. I didn't want to sell. But the point is these older, small homes in California go for exhorbitant prices. Even after the housing bust, the price is still way too high for what they are worth.

[Warpy]

45. I live in one, thanks

and its 1946 floor furnace is still going strong. A family of four would have been squashed into its 2 small bedrooms but these old places are fine for singles and couples. Floor space without garage is under 1000 square feet.

[tammywammy]

50. I live in a 1950s house

Built in 1951, 2 bedroom, 1 bath. No garage, it did have a one car garage but it was converted to living space. It's about 1100 square feet. Someone did install central air in it. Small kitchen sure, but I can still cook up plenty in it. Oh and I do have a laundry area and if I needed a freezer I could put one near the washer/dryer.

So yes, I'm damn happy to live in a 1950s house.

Oh and when I bought it my mom said it was very similar to the house she grew up in. Two parents, 5 kids, 2 bedrooms and 1 bath.

[ipaint]

74. I live in half of a 1920's house. About 500 sq. ft

I go to the laundromat. No dishwasher. Cook all my own meals, don't eat out and share a cell phone pay as you go that I hardly ever use.

I much prefer small living spaces compared to large living spaces. Cleaning is easy. I live within walking distance of groceries, green market/veggie stands, laundromat, the library, the post office, the drug store and a busy small downtown with lots of art festivals and different activities/festivals on the weekends. Very dog friendly, too.

The computer is the one thing I could not give up. Most of the artwork I create to support myself is now done on the computer and sold on the internet.

[XemaSab]

75. My house was built in 1948

It's 900 square feet.

It's been upgraded, so we have insulation, a washer-dryer, and central AC.

Yes, the kitchen is small.

But I would rather live in a QUALITY house than in one of the 4,000 square foot people-coops they're building now out of plywood and chicken wire.

[alarimer]

167. So would I.

The workmanship is miles better than the piece of shit, lookalike McMansions they are buidling now. Go into any new suburb and it is just completely lacking in any kind of character. They give me the creeps.

[annabanana]

83. 1946 house here . . ..It's not so bad . . . .n/t

[intheflow]

86. Where the fuck did they build houses with no insulation in the 50s?

That would not be anywhere north of the Mason-Dixon line. I currently live in a 1100sf house with two roommates and one bathroom. We have plenty of space. And a laundry room. And no central air, which is an energy waste unless you live in the deep south or elsewhere where the temps average over 90 a day all year long, or have a medical condition or a bank of electronics that need a steady cold temperature.

[GreenStormCloud]

96. So the only part of the U.S. that counts is the North?

My house was built in 1948, and when I bought it, there was no insulation in the walls, and very little in the attic. We had 18 inches of insulation blown into the attic. I live in Dallas, TX. Many homes in the South and the SouthWest from that period were wood frame with no insulation.

My point about homes built back then was that they were basic homes, without all the stuff that a modern home is built with.

[dysfunctional press]

141. they're also built A LOT sturdier than MANY of the homes today.

REAL 2x4's, not 1.5X3.5's, tongue/groove subfloors, 2X10 floor joists, etc.
you can drive through a lot of neighborhoods from that era and still see the same houses standing- some might look a little dingy, but mostly nothing that can't be fixed/painted without too much trouble. a lot of them may have had additions- but you can usually make out the original house/lines.
i really don't think that the mcmansion subdivisions being built these days are going to hold up as well 40-50 years from now.

and btw- yes, in my experience- the north is the only part of the u.s. that matters.

[Mimosa]

253. ITA houses were better built back then

Are you crazy saying the North is all that matters? Are you being provocative? LOL

[Hekate]

203. So Cal generally. The San Fernando Valley. When energy was cheap, some things didn't matter...

... apparently.

Hekate

[crispini]

91. I live in one, thank you.

With some judicious updates (air, insulation).

It works fine for me.

[Matariki]

93. I live in a 1950s house - 1958 to be exact. 960 sf of living space

$315k. Way too far from downtown where I work. *sigh*

[GreenStormCloud]

111. 315K?? Damn, that's expensive.

Our house was built in 1948, has had two additions. We paid $67K, five years ago. The addition brought it up to about 2,000 sq ft, and we sit on 1/3 acre lot.

In 1985 I bought a 1947 house, 900 sq ft, no central air, floor heater for $17,500 and put about $5,000 into it for repairs and lived in it for 14 years. It was one block off the beach in Biloxi, MS. Luckily, I moved a few years before Katrina.

[RC]

107. Yeah, but it was only $10,000 new.

Two bedroom, attached garage and a laundry/mud room.
Cinder block construction. Floor furnace heat.

[PassingFair]

109. Hey, I live in that house!

Its just right!

[XemaSab]

129. This house is right around the corner from us, and it's contemporary with our house

The light is... flattering in this picture. :P

[NNN0LHI]

117. And oil heat was the height of sophistication

[zalinda]

121. I live in a house built in 1928

It's in the city near the university. It is a two family house with 3 bedrooms downstairs, 4 if you could the room I am using as a pantry off of the kitchen. And upstairs is a 2 bedroom flat with a small room off of the kitchen that could be used as a bedroom. Both flats have a dining room and an eat in kitchen. Laundry is done in the basement. Tiny front and back yards, but a 2 1/2 car garage. No air conditioning, but hardly ever need it, and have steam heat through out the house and last year my highest bill was for about $300 for the month for heating.

You wouldn't have had to live in a 1950's house in the 50's, there were plenty of other houses around. The late 40's, early 50's houses were small because they had to be built fast for the GI's coming home and getting married. In the later part of the 50's they had much bigger houses, with 3 bedrooms, a bath and a half, a basement, and a 2 car garage. I know because there were tons of them built in Warren, Michigan. These sub-divisions sprung up like weeds and you needed a map to know where you were, because all of them looked alike.

zalinda

[Undercurrent]

128. My house is 868 sq feet

It's a 2 1/2 story hand made (hippie era) house built by my parents. There is plenty of room for my studio, and lots of garden space. It sits on 5 acres in a very rural area. It's well insulated, and heated with a wood stove, which I cook on as well. Very comfy.

I lived in McMansions when I was married, but I like this simple, beautifully built, little house much, much better. I live alone, and am a bit of a recluse so the rural setting is perfect.

[BrklynLiberal]

132. Better than living in the street.

[Le Taz Hot]

136. Ahem.

I live in a 1950's house which is what I could afford as a single female (at the time). And all those things you listed? The Central Air was put in with the house. The insulation was put in in the 1970's. I cook extensively and my kitchen is perfectly large enough. (Can I just say that the largest kitchens in the largest houses I've been in? NOBODY cooks! They LITERALLY dust off their stove. :shrug:) The freezer is out in the garage and so are the laundry facilities. AND I have the COOLEST back yard ever. People who have spent the night here have actually REQUESTED to bring one of the futons out and sleep in the patio (or the "patimo" as we call it). So, you can take your new houses with an inch-and-a-half between each house, and it's tiny tiny rooms and built with the cheapest labor/materials out there, I'll take my 1950's house any day.

[XemaSab]

177. My mom spent half her childhood on Dayton and half on Buckingham

We live in a house much like the ones she grew up in in Fresno. :)

[GreenStormCloud]

217. You missed my point completely.

That guy is ranting about the cost of modern houses, but forgets that a modern built home has more room and conveniences built in. Those things cost money. FWIW, I don't like the McMansion style either, in fact I hate the style with very tall roofs with lots of hips and valleys and stuff that five the house a very busy look.

Face it. A 2,000 sq ft place is going to cost more than a 1,000 sq ft place, location being equal. And if you chose a busy design, the price goes way up. Add in some built in stuff and it is more money still.

But very few of us, especially in those states that need A/C, would want to live in a 1950s house that was still as it was when first built. Almost all of those homes has had renovations done and additions built on.

BTW - As I said in another post, in 1985 I bought a house built in 1948 for $17,500, put $5,000 into it and lived in it for 15 years. One block off the beach. So I know a thing or two about older homes.

[laughingliberal]

219. Well, 1000 sq ft w/ no Central AC here was running about 300,000

here in 2005. No laundry room, tiny kitchen, almost no yard, no room for freezer. I know this because my step son and his family bought that very house for that price and they got it for below the appraised value. My guess is it was built around 1960's.

[GreenStormCloud]

223. Location? That is a huge part of real estate price.

As I have stated several times in this thread, I am living in a 1948 house that has twice been added onto, had central heat & air installed. Paid $67,000 for it in 2002.

[laughingliberal]

233. There is nothing in this area a person could live in for that kind of price

I am in northern Nevada. Housing prices are very high, although they are coming down with the bust of the housing market but I could not imagine a habitable abode for less than $150,000 even now.

[GreenStormCloud]

238. Some places are more expensive than others.

Even in the 1950s, some locations were more expensive than the same house in a different location. That is just a fact. In comparing housing prices, similarity of locations needs to be taken into account. If your housing prices seem high, then that means that lots of other people also want to live in the same place. Find a place where nobody else wants to live and you will find that housing prices are very low, although you may not like living there.

Like I said. I bought my renovated 1948 house for $67K, and in 1985 bought a 1948 house, unrenovated, for 17.5K. Location, location, location.

[1monster]

168. I grew up in a Civil War era farm house that had a country kitchen and upstairs bedroom

added on during the depression.

It wasn't fancy, but it had five bedrooms, a living room, a sitting room, a kitchen, a basement, an attic, and a detached garage with a workroom. The bathroom, was pretty primitive, but functional. The basement also housed a laundry. My guess is that it had at least 2,500 to 3,000 square feet. I don't know for sure, I never measured, but I'm estimating from the size of my size of my current three bedroom home. (And it did have insulation--horse hair insulation...)

And had it been for sale then, the price would have been between five and ten thousand dollars.

No, there was no air conditioning (but we didn't need it in Pennsylvania) and the central heating was a huge coal furnace in the center of the house. We had plenty of room in our home and a large front and back yard along with a very large vegetable garden.

Today, that property wouldn't sell for less than half a million dollars. (This is in an area where property prices are low.)

A beautiful Victorian my husband owned in the mid 1970's cost him $55,000 and he sold it for the same price. Today, that same property would sell for not less than $500,000 to $900,000. With the drop in property values, it might go for $400,000 at the lowest.

It isn't just the size or ammenities that are in a home that cause houses to cost so much today.

editied to complete a sentence.

[GreenStormCloud]

218. Location, location, location. N/T

[TwilightGardener]

173. First house, 50's ranch, 1000 sq ft., window AC, felt rich because

I had a fenced yard and laundry room and garage. Second house--1870's fixer upper, slowly fixing it up. My family has been living in shit-heaps for YEARS, LOL! Holes in the plaster, ancient wiring, etc. My kids don't understand why we don't just buy a nice normal house in the 'burbs, like everyone else.

[spinbaby]

175. I grew up in a 1950s house

Where I lived--very middle-class area-- houses were large to accommodate large families--in our neighborhood it took at least 7 kids to be considered a large family. We had four bedrooms and two full baths for a family of six. We didn't start out with AC but added it sometime in the 60s.

[amandabeech]

211. I'll take it. Those things, fixed up a bit would go for a cool $300,000 here in the D.C. area.

n/t

[wolfgangmo]

215. I already do.

Do you have a point?

Look the average house in the 1950 was 1000 DEVELOPED square feet. Which meant that the base could and often was developed as needed. I grew up in one of those houses and my parents built new rooms and remodeled as needed. And they could afford to even though neither of them had a degree and my dad didn't even attend high school.

I bought a similar house to live in (actually older and smaller) and I can't afford to add bupkiss.

Why are you spouting freeper idiology here?

[GreenStormCloud]

221. You're calling me a freeper?

It is the conservatives that want to return to the 1950s. I damn sure don't. If the OP wants to whine about housing prices, he needs to compare apples to apples. Comparing a 1950s house to a house of 2009 is rather silly.

Yes, the country has problems and they need fixing. Food is getting more expensive all the time. Medical care is bankrupting people. But please don't hold the 1950s "My Little Margie" as some sort of golden time, because it wasn't.

A factory worker in the Northeast may have done fairly well, but much of the rest of the country was in poverty, especially in the South. Many rural homes in the South didn't get electricity until the mid-50s. LBJ was largely responsible for the legislation that helped in that.

The country has come a long way since then. The KKK has gone from being a serious political power to being a laughing stock. Racism has gone from open and blatant (Legal, official segregation) to usually, hidden and subtle, and lots of folks, young and old, are fighting against it.

In the 1950s, in most places, a cop could shoot you if you tried to out run him. Now there are Miranda warnings, and much better (Although still not perfect) controls on police use of force. Work still needs to be done.

The Civil Right Act opened opened many doors to minorities that had been firmly closed. Work still needs to be done.

Medicare has taken much of the burden of medical care costs off the backs of the elderly. Back then, medical insurance stopped at age 65.

Abortion, once forbidden, is legal.

The poll tax is gone. Literacy tests are gone.

The Cold War has ended. No longer do kids do "Duck and Cover" drills, like we did in the 50s. I am quite pleased that the vast nuclear armament that the USSR and USA/NATO had aimed at each other have been greatly reduced. Maybe, someday, they will be eliminated, but that will be the work of the younger generation.

Great strides have been made in fighting pollution, although much remains to be done.

Because I don't view the 50s as "Happy Days", you call me a freeper.

Might I suggest that you discuss and debate instead of engaging in name calling?

This country isn't perfect at all, and much needs to be done, but things are way better than they were in the 50s.

BTW - Television is cheaper and phone service is cheaper and better too. I bet that you would be howling and screaming if you had to put up with 1950s level of phone service, and could only get the three big networks.

[Go2Peace]

234. I live in one. We need to build more of them.

[GreenStormCloud]

242. Remember, NoA/C, 1950s building codes, floor furnace only,

no insulation in the walls or attic, no smoke detectors, 900 sq ft, no double pane windows, no moulding, no wall to wall carpet, (personally, I like hardwood floors), no ceiling fans (They were not in use in homes back then), no paved driveway, pier & beam foundation, no basement in most states, etc.

IOW, restore it to ORIGINAL condition and live in it like they did in the 50s. I believe that you will quickly be wanting some modernization.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

246. Too much run-off with paved driveways...

unless they are designed properly. I don't think anyone is suggesting that we all live in 1950s homes with no modernization. Most of what you have listed above involves minor (smoke detectors, moulding, and ceiling fans) to relatively minor upgrades (windows, carpet, and attic insulation). Insulation in the walls is a bit more complicated.

[GreenStormCloud]

247. If you want 1950s style prices, you have to live 1950s style life.

Some of that stuff can be expensive. Most homes of that era need to be rewired. The older wiring systems won't support all the electric stuff we use now.

Plumbing often needs reworking too.

And you have to get rid of the lead based paint.

[raccoon]

259. +1. nt

[CTyankee]

164. In the '50s growing up my husband recalls his dad went to work (asst. Supt. of Schools) and his mom

(who had been a teacher) stayed home. They had one car and his dad took it to the office each day. If she had to go somewhere she took the bus. My husband walked to school or took a public bus if the weather was bad. People had one phone and one radio. I saw an Xmas photo of his family and no one was obese (and these were German-English people, not skinnies). They had a modest house in a modest neighborhood. Most of the men, like his dad, had served in WW2.

It was a different time and a far different life...

[Mimosa]

252. Taxes were far less for middle class people until around the Vietnam War

XemaSab, you're right. I've known plenty of people whose fathers supported 3 or 4 kids and saved money back in the 1950s.

[GreenStormCloud]

258. Guess again about the taxes. They were more than twice as high on the bottom class back then.

I will say that IRS short form really was a post card in the 50s. It was so simple that a grade school kid could understand it. Total number of exemptions. Add your W-2 forms together. Most had only one. Enter that amount. Look up tax due on table. Enter that amount. Enter amount of taxes withheld. Pay difference or get difference in refund.

Bottom bracket in 1952 was 22.2%. Today the bottom bracket is 10%. Sorry, but I don't think the 1950s was all that great for low taxes. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_tax_in_the_United_States#History_of_progressivity_in_federal_income_tax

Kennedy and Johnson, Democrats, reduced the tax load.

[virgogal]

3. The things you listed were luxuries when I grew up. You must have

been very fortunate.

[JanMichael]

7. I agree. They were for some.

However-- the couple catty corner from the folks....1964-1995....husband was a school janitor, wife was a secretary. Not exactly wealthy. Nice house, fairly nice Buicks. Two pets. Lived a long time.

So, I understand the poverty slant here...but, this thread is about people who earned decent livings as janitors, secretaries, teachers etc.

[sandnsea]

142. On one salary

My dad raised us 4 kids on a blue collar income and they owned their home, we had tv and phone and even took a camping vacation once in a while.

[sentelle]

5. rubbish

Television. - still can... however now there are sub-channels.... I, for one don't have cable or sattelite. Digital TV and most (but not all) broadcast channels, weather notwithstanding.

Pets. - Every pet I have owned, has come from a shelter, and none of them had an adoption donation over $90.00 (and i was happy to donate, as they were no-kill shelters)

Phone: $30/month - landline (including the line portion of my DSL), International happens on VOIP, Domestic via Google Voice, and local is flat fee.

Doctor, however, I'll give you.

The others, well, I think too many people have it too cushy to accept less than premium service

[JanMichael]

8. Here's the problem with your post:

International happens on VOIP, Domestic via Google Voice, and local is flat fee. How many people working as janitors, cafeteria workers etc have a clue in hell as to what you even mean?

Yeah, techies can game the system (we do too)... but, you think the average joe does that shit?

[sentelle]

10. sure, thats one

and whats the problem with the TV and pets part?

I know too many people that feel that they couldn't give up thier cell phones, or their cable TV, as if somehow these things are necessities.

And BTW, for many, neither is long distance. There are many people that use calling cards to phone home overseas. and some of them work in fields, as busboys, and in 'cottage industries'...

[Codeine]

64. "Techies game the system"?

Dude, that shit's plug-and-play with a ton of commercials on TV for it every night. The "average Joe" ain't as dumb as you think.

[JanMichael]

70. wanna bet? my wife's a librarian

in large university. You have no freaking clue. Man, there's a whole 'nother thread.

[hfojvt]

153. I don't understand that, but I don't think it matters

long distance is now much cheaper than it was in the mid 1990s, and phone is probably no more expensive, especially in real terms.

I also work as a part time janitor and can easily afford DSL and phone (although I would love to drop the phone and save $30 a month, my job requires it, and I have my own house which was fully paid for in 2005. It wasn't the cheapest house in town either, and it's better, IMO, than some more expensive houses in town.

edit - oh yeah, I have two dogs as well. At one time I had three. Once they get their puppy shots, they are not that expensive, and I usually don't get them spayed either.

[keepCAblue]

188. "...and I usually don't get them spayed either."

Shame on you.

[rfranklin]

189. I hope you deduct that telephone on your taxes...

if it is required for work.

[NoUsername]

115. How do you get phone with DSL for $30/month?

My phone service is the most basic you can get and costs just shy of $15/month. Of course, the bill with taxes and fees and everything else ends up being $25. To add DSL line service, it would cost me another $25. (Not sure if there are any other taxes or fees in addition to that.)

I was going to post on the cost of phone service anyway so I thought I'd reply to your post. How does a $15 phone bill morph into $25 once all the taxes and fees are added on? I'm looking at going with cable Internet access for $25/mo (I'm currently on dial-up), switching to Magic Jack, and ditching the landline. Screw their taxes and fees.

[The Straight Story]

6. Hookers

Used to be you get a cheap one and have money left over for booze.

[JanMichael]

9. lovely. Sorry you miss that.

Good luck

[MH1]

85. here have some humor

I got extra so I can share. :)

[imdjh]

34. Male hookers too! Guys who would work for beer, not give you a disease, rob you, or kill you.

And you knew where you were born
Girls were girls and men were men
Mister, we could used a man like Herbert Hoover again

[dysfunctional press]

46. the internet has made them more AND less accessible.

easier to find in many cases, but the prices have gone premium.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

176. HEAR HEAR!!!!

:toast:

:rofl:

[cbayer]

12. You can still get TV for free.

If you have an hdtv ready tv or converter box and an antenna, and you live in a place where you can point your antenna towards the towers, you can get a lot of stations. We get about 15 PBS stations now, all the major networks (rarely watched) and shows in languages both familiar and unfamiliar.

You can't get cable shows or premium channels, but most of that can be accessed over the internet, if you really want it.

What I find total luxuries that used to be easily affordable are haircuts, eating or drinking out and pretty much any medical expenses.

[XemaSab]

78. You can get TV for free if you have a cable company that's too stupid

to know which house they cut service to. :hide:

[eShirl]

112. our converter box just died tonight

no more "My Name is Earl" reruns or local news
:-(

[hfojvt]

155. haircuts are $10 or $12 here

the new place ran a special at $8 which was half price and that's what I paid for my last haircut. I cannot imagine they were that much cheaper in the past, unless the song is true. "Shave and a haircut, two bits"

[wuvuj]

235. I get my haircuts for "free"...or almost free...

...using Flowbee. Best move I EVER made. Has probably saved me 10Xs what it cost.

[Arctic Dave]

13. How about going to college.

I hear story from the old timers at work about how it cost them a couple hundred bucks to go to college, blah, blah, blah.

[Doremus]

94. DING DING DING

Right you are!

My folks sent both my brothers to OSU at the same time in the 1960s without a single loan.

My father didn't make a king's ransom, my mother wasn't employed and they didn't scrimp & save to do it either. It came out of the household budget, which wasn't large to begin with, so I know it was pretty damned reasonably priced.

It's a horrible shame what we've allowed the corporatists to do to this country. :cry:

[trackfan]

204. UCLA was $131 a quarter for me in 1977.

It may have gone up to about $160 by the time I graduated in 1981.

[hunter]

207. Yep.

And you could get grants to pay that if you qualified.

[PSzymeczek]

231. If you can get into Harvard

and your family income is less than $60K a year, you don't pay. It's how their endowment is set up.

http://www.admissions.college.harvard.edu/financial_aid/index.html

[iceman66]

14. New Cars.

Back in the '60's it was not uncommon for a middle-class ONE INCOME family to be able to afford to buy a decent new car every year or two. Who can do that now?

[JanMichael]

19. or at least every 4 years or so

And your Dad could fix most of the crap in the driveway....

[dysfunctional press]

42. you also used to be able to do most repairs yourself.

if you can even FIND a car from prior to the mid-70's, open the hood and look at how much room there is in the engine compartment, and how relatively simple the works are, compared to today. a simple/basic set of tools would suffice to handle almost anything that needed to be done.
no more.

[Codeine]

66. All that extra stuff

makes them much more efficient and improves performance immensely, of course.

[JanMichael]

67. Look up the gas mileage for an '87 Nissan Sentra

vs today.

Safety? maybe...some of the added weight was good...but, many of the wrecks today involve crashes with those motherfuckin' SUV's etc...that old Sentra didn't stand a chance.

That's probably a whole 'nother thread.

[dysfunctional press]

108. actually- a lot of it is about pollution control too.

but i'd be more than willing to give up 10-15mpg just to be able to: a) know what the problem is beforehand by looking at an actual gauge, not some idiot light in the shape of an engine that could mean any of a hundred things. and b) be able to open the hood and access and fix the problem with common tools.

[Davis_X_Machina]

53. You more or less had to, though...

...because a car that passed 100,000 miles was a freak of nature.

Every car in the Machina fleet now has 150,000 or better miles -- three American-made, one foreign -- none made this decade. We're a good three years from buying again, too.

[conscious evolution]

185. 100,000 + miles on a car was a miracle

People bitch about cars now but truth is they are much better made these days.They are so much better that the car companies have to intentionally build parts they KNOW will fail so people get tired of repair bills and go buy new ones instead.

[Bette Noir]

196. I'm not at all nostalgic about new cars.

Cars back then were crap that had to be replaced every 70,000 miles. I much prefer the cars now, which can be depended on for 200,000, with maintenance.

[Codeine]

241. Exactly.

My UAW-made Toyota Corolla has a quarter of a million miles on it and it's still roaring along.

[sentelle]

15. The one I would add

quality Fruits, vegetables, meat, poultry and fish.

and by quality I mean organic, you know, like the way they produced them back in the '50's.

[JanMichael]

17. Yep. Forgot that

however, be careful...the 50's were THE end of organic food. (remember DDT, etc?)

[dysfunctional press]

49. "organic, you know, like the way they produced them back in the '50's..."

DDT is organic?

that's something i was never aware of.

[XemaSab]

79. .

:rofl:

[Codeine]

133. Chemicals were used by the ton back then.

If anything shit was less organic back then. Pesticides were a religion.

[wroberts189]

16. Go watch Mike Moore's new movie...

See if you can last ten minutes without crying.

I lasted 8.


knr

[tridim]

18. A bag of pot.

[JanMichael]

20. and it was better, too.

That old stuff from decades ago was mellow and not scary.

[tridim]

38. I like today's pot better than 1985's pot.

Wish I could have tried the 70's stuff.. The original land-race sativas.

[dysfunctional press]

56. it's not so much the pot from the 70's i miss as the buzzes...

they seemed...buzzier.

i think today's pot is much better- but when you're a chronic chronic-user, you just get used to it, like everything else.

[Le Taz Hot]

139. Trust me.

It wasn't that good. Today's stuff is MUCH MUCH better. Then again, I'm not that into sativas. Just harvested some Black about 3 weeks ago that's 90% Indica and 10% Sativa. 25% THC content. Did I mention I just LOVE harvest time? :smoke:

[tridim]

162. I completely understand your love.

Note that I said I can't afford buying pot. ;)

[Le Taz Hot]

138. Ah, the days of the 4-finger lids.

For $10.00. 'Course back then it was mostly ditch weed but we thought that was all there was. Then the 'Nam vets started coming home with stuff that would knock yer shit in the dirt and we done got religion.

[Missy Vixen]

21. The vet. Oh, the vet.

We are the proud parents of a rehomed 11-month-old chocolate Lab. We got him at six months old. We love him. He's cost us a fortune.

Adoption fee
Neutering ($180)
"Puppy package" of shots ($175)
The shot-with-its-own-brochure so he could go swimming ($35)
Initial exam ($50)
Monthly flea/deworming med ($13)
Two different courses of antibiotics, one of which was because he evidently wasn't adjusting well to his new food: $80
Tranquilizer shot the last time we took him in to have his toenails trimmed: $40

The trainer recommended we feed California Natural. Our poor dog got amazingly sick on it. What's more, the vet told us he's "heard things" about the food. Of course, if we fed him the Iams the vet sells, it would clear it right up. Maybe I am a bad pet parent, but we put him right back on the original food he was eating when we got him (Purina ONE), and he thrives on it. What's more, the diarrhea he was experiencing cleared up overnight.

We knew there would be expenses involved in having a dog. We didn't know that we'd be getting nickle-and-dimed by the vet.

[JanMichael]

26. I feel kind of bad because one of my favorite DUers to read is a vet

And I am sure she is great.

However, the shit they want to nickel and dime us for our two pets is insane. Sorry. I know they ARE medical doctors...but, I do not think dollar vaccines are worth 25 because of "overhead." That's too much goddamned overhead.

[XemaSab]

81. Nickle-and-dimed?

We've spent at least $2000 this year in two rounds.

Pip had to have surgery to have a canine tooth removed after getting in a fight, and Bailey had to spend a few nights at the vet and get a LOAD of meds after he started vomiting blood.

Those things plus Bailey's special food have about driven us to the poorhouse. :(

[Missy Vixen]

124. XemaSab, I feel your pain

That was last year for us with our big brown Maine Coon boy. He ate some (grocery bag type) plastic. It wasn't moving through his system as quickly as the vet wanted it to; of course, he needed surgery. Of course it was $2,500.00. Here's the best part: In the hour and a half between the last x-ray and the surgery, the plastic moved out of the cat's stomach and into his intestine.

In other words, he ended up not needing the surgery, but he got opened up anyhow. $2,500.00. We paid it off over a period of several months.

Yeah, I can only imagine how much fun those bills were for your family. :hug:

[XemaSab]

126. Pip got fixed twice

When we got her from the pound they said she wasn't fixed, so we took her to the vet and had her fixed.

They opened her up, and sure enough, she'd been fixed before. x(

[Missy Vixen]

127. OMG

I'd be SO mad.

:hug: to Pip.

[Go2Peace]

236. Wiat until your dog gets ill and has to stay at the vet for a night or two. $$$

[wroberts189]

22. "This country is a joke." ....

And sadly the joke is on us.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHPOzQzk9Qo

[imdjh]

24. The last time I heard someone say "this country" he was complaining about his credit card bill.

I guess he figured that other countries don't have credit card bills. Same moron who thought moving to Nepal would be a good idea.

[JanMichael]

28. Sorry, this isn't about credit card bills. This is about healthcare,

education, housing, medical expenses....and some fun, like...having a dog to throw a stick for.

[imdjh]

47. Is that what this is about? Getting a dog?

I'm sorry, I really am. I don't think you should take anything anyone says here to mean that if you can't do it the today way then you shouldn't have a dog. There are plenty of people out there who have a dog without spending a fortune. Yes, as a nation we've indulged ourselves and with us our animals as well.

Any dog you get from the shelter is going to be so much better off with you than he would be without you, that not a soul here is going to pick on how you choose to go about it. Yes, the adoption fees are a barrier, but they usually come spayed/neutered as a result which would cost more than the adoption fee. Go get yourself a dog, and tell the rest of us to fuck off. Seriously.

BTW, the rice and chicken thing is still a lot cheaper than canned food of almost any kind, and a lot better for the dog. Rice and hamburger works too. Rice and carrots and green beans was a favorite with my Rottie. The only reason I push this, is because I had a Rottie and two spaniels in Florida and had skin problems with them, that went away by feeding the dogs home made food and Dick Van Patten or Hund n Flocken when I could afford it. Walmart sells a generic for Iams, btw, which has all the nutrients and the Omega fatty acids as well. It's not the Roy brand, comes in black bags.

[JanMichael]

52. we have a dog, and a cat. We can afford both of them, OK? That's NOT

the point. The point is that so many people CAN'T. They can't afford the chicken for THEMSELVES, much less the dog.

Get it?

[imdjh]

62. Oh, sorry for giving a shit. Carry on.

[wroberts189]

55. Yes..or in other words the high inflation...

Despite news stories claiming things are getting cheaper.

I will believe it when I see 1.24 cents again... what was it 9 years ago?

Everything is up that you need to live.. food gas ..medical care etc

[wroberts189]

59. While I do not know the details if they raised me to 29.99% apr I would have to move to Nepal.

Or Paraguay ..like the bushies have got setup for them..

[imdjh]

61. He didn't pay his bill and they charged him a late fee. And he bitched about "this country" as if ..

... they don't have late fees in Panama, his other fantasy destination. This from a man who bitches about how hot it is in the summer. PS, Florida is not hot in the summer, Washington DC, Philadelphia, and New York City are HOT in the summer.

[wroberts189]

71. I understand your position.

I sweat every month to pay my cc bills on time. And every month that is the ghoul under my bed.


Think about this though... once it was a $10 late fee and your credit was still "ok"


Now it is $39 on most balances and if you do it twice...does not matter if it was a day late .. in a year ..interest rate now 29.99%

And they will tell the other banks so they can do the same..."Universal default".

[imdjh]

23. On the bright side, the very bright side

Television - When I was a kid you were the slave of three networks and the mostly insipid garbage they decided to show you. If you didn't set your watch by the TV set, or if you were otherwise engaged at the "normal times" then you didn't get to watch the news, which really wasn't worth watching anyway. Commercials totally sucked, and you wanted to kill the next person who said , "compared to Brand X". There is old TV in a nutshell- the major corporations wouldn't even brag about their own product with a known comparison product. Now, you can choose from dozens of selections in any given time slot, one or two of which might actually be interesting, entertaining, or informative.

Pets - You don't have to spend a fortune on your dog, you can still do it the old fashioned way, and probably get the old fashioned results. It's nice to have the vaccines available, as well as the Advantage and the heartworm stuff. By the way, Advantage is cheapest when ordered online from a place in Virginia and generic heartworm comes from an Australian company called Pet Shed dot com. $13/mo to keep away fleas and heartworm. As for the food, you can make high quality dog food yourself. Buy chicken (whole cut up or cheapest price you can find) and boil it. Remove the chicken from the pan and add the right amount of rice to soak up the water and chicken juices/fat. Strip the chicken and skin from the bones, and add it back to the rice, and VOILA! you have a high quality low allergy dog food. Buy a bag of flax meal or a bottle of flax or fish oil to add to the mix for Omega fatty acids, and now you have a batter dog food than you can buy, at less than half the price of designer dog food.

Phone - Yep, I remember the good old days. The good old days when the world came to a grinding halt if someone was making or receiving a long distance phone call. When my uncle would call from Germany or Korea, it was a miracle. The good old days when some people had metered service on their local usage, hence the expression "Talking her head off and running up my phone bill." Now, you can talk pretty much to anyone any time for as long as you like and no one cares. I don't see how the good old days were so good on this one.

[bjb]

25. Cigarettes

[GreenStormCloud]

27. Really? Think again.

Television. Dad bought our first TV in 1954. He worked minimum wage for $1.00 per hour. The TV cost over a hundred. He was making payments a long time. And it needed frequent repair. After about three years, a TV was worn out and needed to be replaced. TV was expensive.

You can still get broadcast TV with an antenna if you want to. We choose cable or satellite because we want more choices than the three networks. We want hundreds of channels with recent movies, etc.

And now you can buy a basic color set for about the same number of dollars that Dad paid for a B&W back then.


Pets{/b] If you want to you can find someone who is giving away puppies or kittens to a good home and you can feed them the cheap stuff. Bargins can be found on the neutering. If your pet is expensive, it because you are choosing to make it so.

Phone Maybe you should look up the rates for long distance calls in the 1950s. Our basic bill for a party-line (I bet you don't know what that is.)was about $10 per month. For a dollar an hour worker, that was a LOT. Nobody except the very wealthy called long distance just to talk. It was either important business or a family emergency. And there was only one phone in the house. Homes built in the 1940 and 1950 had a special small booth built into a wall that held the phone and the phone book.

Now I carry my phone in my pocket and can use it anywhere, and can call anywhere in the U.S. for no additional charge. The total price, for a phone for my wife and myself is about the same in modern terms as our phone was in the 1950s.

Doctor making house calls? I am a senior citizen and I don't remember doctors making house calls. In any case, that is a waste of the doctor's time. While he is driving around, he could be seeing someone. Better use of his time for the patient to come to him. Besides, what can a doctor really do without the equipment in his clinic?


If I could be given a choice of living in America in the 1950s or living now, I will definately take the present.

[imdjh]

30. Applause! And you left out polio.

[JanMichael]

37. Nice try.

But I am old enough to remember long distance charges. We talked to my uncle in California on Thanksgiving and Christmas Day. That was it. Otherwise we WROTE LETTERS. And that was all the information we really needed.

If you don't remember docs making house calls it's because your folks didn't call them. Waste of time? Bullshit. How is going to see a puking kid and giving them a shot a waste of time? What can a doc do without equipment in his office? You aren't old...come on, admit you...you are twenty. (they used to be able to think and diagnose)

Cheap pets? Ha. Wait til you have an emergency and no doc will see your animal til you cough up over a thousand dollars. Putting them to sleep now costs around or more than 100 bucks. Spare me.

TV's breaking; yeah...I remember the tubes... and you add up your cable fees then compare them to repair fees...lemme know what you come up with.

[Mariana]

87. My Lab got put to sleep last July for $55.

That included transport of the body, communal cremation and disposal of the ashes. The euthanasia fee itself was $25.

[Go2Peace]

237. You have a cheap vet compared to most areas of the country. $150-200 here

[GreenStormCloud]

101. Apples to rocks comparison.

You can still get free TV. All you have to do is buy a set and stick up an antenna. Color TV sets cost about half the number of dollars that a color set cost in the 1950s. And that is before you factor in the inflation between 1958 and now.

Cable or sattellite has absolutely nothing to do with how long a TV will last. Those have to do with how many channels I can get.

[PSzymeczek]

232. Not here, you can't

We're surrounded by mountains and the "local" stations are 75 miles away, on the other side. There's a city ordinance that prohibits putting up an antenna which is high enough to get anything. So the cable and satellite companies have us over the proverbial barrel.

[raccoon]

260. Great post. And you left out the air conditioning! Who'd want to spend a summer

South of the Mason Dixon line...in some cases north of it....without AC in their cars and houses?

[paulsby]

31. utter rubbish

i'll take phone for example

having a phone is MUCH cheaper than when i was a kid, especially with usage.

i remember paying $6 an hour for long distance to california

now, i can call UNLIMITED minutes at night, and 500 minutes total during the day for $40 and that includes the monthly service charge.

$6 an hour is is about $50 for 500 minutes. so, with modern service, i get UNLIMITED nighttime and weekend minutes and 500 anytime minutes for less than that. plus, i get the actual cost of my monthly service paid for

anybody who thinks phones aren't cheaper now when compared item to item is crazy and is ignoring facts.

and that also doesn't consider the fact that (due to inflation) $50 in 1985 dollars is wAY more than $50 in 2009 dollars.

[imdjh]

36. When I was a kid, the only person who had a phone like I have now was Dick Tracy.

[paulsby]

39. that's true too

i was ignoring the fact that having a phone NOW means having a much more useful instrument.

a cell phone can go with you, as you move about, the phone available back when i was a kid, had to stay in the house.

in addition to the fact that phones are MUCH cheaper to use than they were back when i was a kid, they also have FAR MORE utility as you correctly point out.

[Swamp Rat]

51. Utter rubbish is still cheap too.

It comes with basic cable. :D

[paulsby]

84. i can't argue with that

you have eye grabbing visuals.

i just have my charm

[kestrel91316]

32. So, it's totally my imagination that more and more of my patients

are living longer and longer lives, and that it's almost rare to lose one before 10 or 12 years??

Better nutrition, better medical care, more focus on prevention than "fire engine" medicine, have done NOTHING for my patients???? ROFLMFAO. I have been in practice for 27 years so I have noticed quite a lot of improvement in my patients' overall health.

You're dead wrong on the vet thing. And failure to provide appropriate care for your own pets is nothing to brag about.

[dysfunctional press]

43. and "hundreds" to spay or neuter...??

i've never heard of it running into that kind of money. and if you get a pet from a shelter- it's almost ALWAYS either already done, or paid for as part of the adoption fee.

[JanMichael]

65. NOT when you grab a mutt or cat off the street like we did.

Sorry...we didn't wait for "rescue."

[Codeine]

68. Neutered our last dog for $40

at the Humane Society. And they were as nice and kind as can be.

[JanMichael]

72. I am sure they were nice

We have two females...Scout the terrier, and Stinky the cat. 40 dollars didn't cover the cost of the exam.

[haele]

191. They do means testing here. If your income is over a certain amount,

you end up paying around $200 for a female cat and $75 for a male cat, no matter if you "rescued" them from a neighbor who didn't believe in spaying or neutering their cats. That's at the Humane Society, the county shelter, and the "low cost spay/neuter" storefront vets.
Doesn't matter if there are other chronic medical costs, other pets with vet bills, every family of three who grosses over $45K a year before taxes has just got to have that sort of money just laying around. Or they shouldn't have tried to rescue the two female kittens to keep the feral and coyote food population in the neighborhood down if they "couldn't afford to take care of two more"...

Haele

[dysfunctional press]

105. if you paid "hundreds" to have it neutered- you got taken.

if that amount included other items/procedures, it makes more sense.

[zalinda]

122. Sorry, but here in Syracuse, NY

it is over $200 to get an animal "fixed". You can get an animal fixed at the clinic for the poor people (you have to show your Benefits card from the state, so you have to be on some sort of state assistance) and it is $85. True, they do get a short check up and basic shots, but $85 is a lot when you're on assistance. So, many animals that should be "fixed" are not. I'm feeding 2 stray cats now, and they should be spayed, but I can't afford it. I'm hoping that if I get them fat for the winter, the toms won't think they are cute and will leave them alone. Worked this past winter.

zalinda

[JanMichael]

54. *sigh* Our pets eat premium food, and see the vet regularly. Hell

the dog boards at a place with extra playtime and personal bedrooms.

How many people can afford to come see you. That's the point. You read about people that can't afford to go to the damned doctor, do you think 175 bucks for a (female dog...bacteria and rbc..no crystals) urinary tract infection with 2 weeks of simple antibiotics MIGHT just be out of the range of a few folks?

Google dogs and urinary tract infections...and read all the people who are asking for free advice, looking for something from the grocery store...anything...but, they can't afford the vet.

I wasn't saying you aren't worth it; I said your services are out of reach of many people now.

[Mariana]

95. Back then a pet with an expensive injury or disease

got put to sleep at the vet's if it was very lucky. Most of them around where I lived were shot if they got sick or hurt. Few pets were spayed or neutered, or vaccinated (except for rabies, most people did do that as I remember.) Why? Because people couldn't afford the vet fees.

[GreenStormCloud]

97. That's the way it was when I grew up. N/T

[dysfunctional press]

106. i also don't remember such a thing as 'pet insurance' being available either.

but it is an option people have.

[nadinbrzezinski]

125. And it is one we are considering for the parrots

their yearly check up is not bad, but if they get sick, and need more care than just their annual checkup... I dread to think about it.

[dysfunctional press]

140. we had $1100 worth of dental work done on our siamese two years ago...

during the procedure, they found the tumor that she died from three weeks later.
our vet was/has been very sympathetic, giving us discounts and freebies on our black lab and 3 remaining cats since then.

[nadinbrzezinski]

198. Tuky passed ten days ago from old age

and I mean the REAL OLD AGE... so he didn't suffer... and neither did my wallet... but I know bird medicine can get very expensive as well.

[dysfunctional press]

199. my condolences...it's so hard to lose a pet...

especially one that you've had for awhile, and has become an integral part of your life.
how long did you have him?

i've heard that some macaws, iirc, can live over 70 years- is that correct?

what kind of parrot(s) are yours?


i have a friend who has a mule- i was surprised to find out that they can live 50+ years.

[nadinbrzezinski]

201. Tuky was 23, and most cockatiels live 10-15 years

he missed the memo I guess.

My Nanday and my sun can live up to forty.

The rule of thumb is the larger the parrot the longer they will live. A cockatoo at the San Diego Zoo passed on oh five years ago. They believe he was over a hundred years.

It's been hard on us, but it has been especially hard on his flockmate, Cookie, the Nanday. He's gotten really weird... as in wants some human contact now.

[truedelphi]

100. But is there a vet out there anywhere that won't

Go ballistic if he or she finds out that Tabby drinks milk? What's up with that?

What ever happeend to the idea that cows and cats held a symbiotic relationship for years?

Then the professional cat advisers started to encourage us to buy our protein-enhanced food from them, never mind that it has melamine in it. Why the dairy products will kill Pretty Kitty, we are told.

My childhood vacations were filled with watching the kitties in the barns with the cows, and they were fat and healthy on milk. Only danger to them was when on a cold night if Bessie rolled over in her sleep. But in terms of the milk being bad for them - I saw no sign of it.

[Codeine]

114. Cow's milk is bad for cats.

So is tuna, for that matter. Ask a kitty vet -- turns out they know more than your average farmer fifty years ago knew.

[truedelphi]

130. Tuna can be hard on their kidneys.

But I have never figured out the milk thing. I had grandparents whose cats lived to be seventeen or eighteen years old (The ones that were not killed by cars out on the highway) and they got their bowl of milk right after the family cow was milked. Every day of their lives.

My two feral cats demand milk. And they are probably not going to live to be seventeen - due to picking fights with larger, more ferocious creatures. But it will not be the milk that does them in.

[tammywammy]

144. I never give cow milk to my cats

I tried once, Monty was acting all crazy while I was in the kitchen getting a bowl of cereal, but neither him nor Mia would have anything to do with it.

As for tuna, when I make tuna salad, I'll give them maybe a spoon of it from the can, but that's it. Right now, they're going nuts, cause I'm trying to trap the stray cats around my house (trap, neuter, release), and I use tuna to lure them in. I even open the cans outside but they know, oh they know. :)

[Codeine]

145. The sound of any can opening makes my cat come running.

This is made doubly hilarious by the fact that I don't eat anything a cat would actually want; "Oh hi kitty. No honey, these are black olives. You don't like olives. Honest, you really don't. Yes, yes I'm quite sure. Nope, not stewed tomatoes either. Totally not kitty food." :rofl:

[tammywammy]

146. LOL! Mine too! And I don't feed them canned cat food either!

The really freaky part, is Monty can tell when I'm just using the microwave to defrost vs cook. I mean, he'll hear it go off quite a few times, but that last bell, oh he knows, he gets up and waltzes right into the kitchen. Usually if I'm just opening green beans or something, I'll pull one out and dump it in his little bowl for him to sniff at. :) The other cat isn't so nosy about cooking, unless it's fish, Monty's just always nosy and ALWAYS starving. lol

[GreenStormCloud]

248. In the 1950s, we didn't feed our cats at all.

They were expected to go to the barn and catch their own dinner. One of our cats, that had kittens, would catch two or three rats a day for each of her babies. Those were fat kittens.

[Name removed]

44. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[wroberts189]

89. Ignoring your post..Do you really have to treat a fellow DU'r like that?

Tell them they are full of poo?

This country *is* a god damn joke and I am a 13 year vet, born a catholic, and went through the Boston Public school system.

We destroyed our whole industrial base.... you think that was a good idea?

Other countries laugh at us while we spend a year trying to give health care to all when the answer is so simple.

Meanwhile China takes over the planet.. a planet doomed by CO2 emissions.



On edit ..looking at your post ..where do you get unlimited long distance for 20 a month?

[GreenStormCloud]

98. VOIP does that, for about $20 a month. N/T

[wroberts189]

152. Not to split hairs but Vonage is 24.99 ..lowest I have seen. nt

[Dreamer Tatum]

118. If this country is a "god damn joke," why do you care about $20 long distance?

Your post address nothing in my post, or the post I replied to, so I will regard it as a non sequitur.

[wroberts189]

151. Because we are all going broke.... and it might help someone. nt

[treestar]

48. True but what of the stuff you have now that there was no way to have then?

Cell phones, PCs, ipods. GPS. Electronic games. The average person has these things now.

[JanMichael]

63. OK, so we moan and whine on DU about people getting evicted,

living in cars or worse, people without jobs...

and the responses on this thread is...

"The average person has these things now."

Please.

[treestar]

77. You weren't talking in the OP about people getting evicted!

You were basically nostalgic for the 60s!

Talk about an unfair reply!

[JanMichael]

80. I was talking about things in America being too expensive now.

I am pretty FUCKING SURE people losing their homes KINDA might agree with this post.

Totally fair reply.

Pull your head out of your behind.

[backwoodsbob]

158. will just have to agree to disagree with you

it isn't that things are so much more expensive..it's that we won't accept living the way people used to.

We can still get free tv
kid took his basic courses at the cc for $900 a semester after grants
have three dogs and I feed them the same thing my parents fed the dogs..dog chow.They are fat,happy and active.
have a 1600sf home with 5.5 acres..total invested is under 100k

We have 4 phones on our family plan and split the bill..cost is under thirty bucks per phone and we get long distance with it.

Things aren't worse now...we just demand a whole lot more now

[conflictgirl]

119. But those aren't necessities. It's easier now to get toys, harder to get necessities.

I'd much rather have job security, affordable housing and affordable healthcare than be able to afford electronic toys or to replace my TV when it wears out because it wasn't built to last.

[Greyhound]

156. And the time. The idea of a life outside of work eludes too many of us today.

We are what we do and we are what we have. It's unfulfilling.

[Pavulon]

57. I use this computer to get two of those for free.

torrents are cool, skype is cool, play on is basically free. I dont pay SHIT for media unless i hear or see it first.

Vets are not all that cheap, but neither is vet school.

[ipaint]

60. Quality of life was better for more people back then, not everyone, but many more than today.

Elizabeth Warren explains pretty well what happen between then and now.

The Coming Collapse of the Middle Class
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akVL7QY0S8A

[Hekate]

73. A college education at a public university. I worked my way through; it's hardly feasible now.

When taxpayers and their elected reps see public education as a priority -- genuinely, not just once every 4 years -- they subsidize these institutions. Tuition and fees don't begin to cover the full cost, but what made it affordable in the 1960s was that the state supported it. Not so much now.

But our country is not a joke.

Hekate

[Kaleva]

183. Few went to college when I was young. It was unaffordable for most.

[Hekate]

Don't know when you were young, but I started community college in 1965...

Every summer of my life my mom pounded it into my head that whatever I earned (and I was expected to earn something) should "be put away for college." I was a babysitter, pineapple canner, house cleaner, and sales clerk at various times from the age of 12 onward. I lived at home two years of college (big savings) then moved out on my own. My bank account was $1,000. I worked 20 hours a week as a sales clerk and took fewer units; I lived with other girls; I walked everywhere. I did not get much from home (like about $20/month) until age 21 when mom sent me $1,000 from the sale of their house when they moved. That was it. That $2,000 total was enough for most of my tuition, fees, and books for three years at the university. I lived on the sales clerk earnings, which came to (iirc) $120/month. It was pretty close to the bone, but it was doable. The savings ended just about the time I graduated with my bachelor's degree.

That's the point: there was a time when it was more doable than it seems to be now. My blue-collar single-income parents believed with all their hearts that their 4 children, of which I was the oldest, had the brains to go to college and should go. To my mother a college degree was the Holy Grail, and she knew the way to get there was to take hard classes in high school and work hard. We had the good fortune to live in a neighborhood where most parents expected their kids to do well in school and where the culture seemed to reinforce it all around us. Certainly for many of my teachers and a lot of my neighbors, education had been the direct but arduous path out of the pineapple and sugar cane fields their grandparents had labored in.

It's been quite a few years now that I've been watching tuition and fees rise higher and higher in public colleges and universities here in California, and I wonder how in heaven's name middle class and blue collar families can hope to aspire to higher education at all. Every time tuition is raised, another layer of the lower incomes is peeled away, even in community colleges. It makes me sad. I know where I'd prefer to spend my tax money, and it's not happening.

That's all.

Ooops, the trick or treaters are here. No time to edit more.

Hekate

[Hekate]

197. Don't know when you were young, but I started community college in 1965...

Every summer of my life my mom pounded it into my head that whatever I earned (and I was expected to earn something) should "be put away for college." I was a babysitter, pineapple canner, house cleaner, and sales clerk at various times from the age of 12 onward. I lived at home two years of college (big savings) then moved out on my own. My bank account was $1,000. I worked 20 hours a week as a sales clerk and took fewer units; I lived with other girls; I walked everywhere. I did not get much from home (like about $20/month) until age 21 when mom sent me $1,000 from the sale of their house when they moved. That was it. That $2,000 total was enough for most of my tuition, fees, and books for three years at the university. I lived on the sales clerk earnings, which came to (iirc) $120/month. It was pretty close to the bone, but it was doable. The savings ended just about the time I graduated with my bachelor's degree.

That's the point: there was a time when it was more doable than it seems to be now. My blue-collar single-income parents believed with all their hearts that their 4 children, of which I was the oldest, had the brains to go to college and should go. To my mother a college degree was the Holy Grail, and she knew the way to get there was to take hard classes in high school and work hard. We had the good fortune to live in a neighborhood where most parents expected their kids to do well in school and where the culture seemed to reinforce it all around us. Certainly for many of my teachers and a lot of my neighbors, education had been the direct but arduous path out of the pineapple and sugar cane fields their grandparents had labored in.

It's been quite a few years now that I've been watching tuition and fees rise higher and higher in public colleges and universities here in California, and I wonder how in heaven's name middle class and blue collar families can hope to aspire to higher education at all. Every time tuition is raised, another layer of the lower incomes is peeled away, even in community colleges. It makes me sad. I know where I'd prefer to spend my tax money, and it's not happening.

That's all.

Ooops, the trick or treaters are here. No time to edit more.

Hekate

[AzDar]

76. Water from the tap used to be just fine, too.

Not anymore...

[Shagbark Hickory]

82. SUVs.

Gas hits $4 a gallon and they're still outrageously priced.

[Richard D]

90. Avocados

Used to be 4 for a dollar or even 10 for a dollar. Nice sized ones too. I remember well making really big bowls of guacamole for parties. Now, a minimum of a dollar each, sometimes a lot more, for little ones that don't taste nearly as good as they used to.

[Liberal_in_LA]

148. market lists then "10 for $10" as if that makes is seem like less $$

[alphafemale]

92. And the TV on those handful of channels was really good.

It was really worth watching. And some of the shows were performed before a live audience.

We will probably never again see something like "All in the Family" ever again in our lives.

There were nights when something like a third of America was watching one show. That's never going to happen again.

[GreenStormCloud]

99. Major cities experienced dips in water pressure from all the people...

flushing their commodes during the commercial breaks on I Love Lucy

[alphafemale]

102. !

:rofl:

[nc4bo]

104. Baby back ribs or regular spare ribs, crabs/seafood, fresh produce, pigs feet......

1 lb. of deli freshly sliced American Cheese and 1 lb. Ham and OH, I don't want to neglect chicken wings and beef short ribs.

All that stuff used to be affordable, some of it even considered poor man's food.

Not anymore.

And about those TV's? Hubby and I were discussing how all the TVs we see in the stores are all flat screens with high price tags attached to them.

[GreenStormCloud]

113. TV set in the 1950s were much more expensive, after inflation.

I remember the prices. A 21 inch color set in 1958 carried a price tag of about $500.00. That was a huge amount to a working person back then. $500 then was like $10,000 today. And the sets were of much lower quality than today. The color detuned and the people looked green after a few months. Frequent repairs were needed, and after about three years, the set was worn out.

Those high price flat screens are also much larger than a set of the 50s, and many of them are high-definition. High-def wasn't even around in the 50s.

I just checked some prices online. You can get a color 22 inch high-def flat screen for $208. In the 1950s a 22 inch Black & White cost about that much. But $200 in 1950 is about like $4,000 today.

TV sets have come greatly down in price as they have gone up in quality.

[AdHocSolver]

157. Using electronics as an example of prices dropping is like comparing apples to oranges

Tv's back then were made of discrete components and were all hand assembled. Tv's today are made with solid-state integrated circuits in which many circuits are placed on one "chip" by automated machines. The discrete parts count is much less, and the cost of manufacture for even complex chips can be as little as pennies a piece.

Any manual labor involved in final assembly of these imported TV's is done in "sweat shops" by people making maybe the equivalent of a dollar an hour. Even if the U.S. factory worker back in the 1950's was making only $2.00 an hour (and this would be semi-skilled to skilled labor), that was easily a family supporting wage back then.

The profit margin of the imported TV today is probably no less than it was for the 1950's U.S. manufactured TV.

[GreenStormCloud]

171. The OP specifically was gripping about TV prices.

So I talked about TV prices. Apples to apples. Modern TV prices are cheaper, and they last much longer, and have better pictures.

[conscious evolution]

187. Frequent repairs were needed,

I was repairing our tv when I was six years old.Learned by watching my father.
It was fairly easy because the older tv's had vacuum tubes that were easy to remove.Almost every hardware store and many drugstores and convienance stores had a machine where you could test the tubes to find which had gone bad.Then you just found the right tube in the rack that was next to it the tester and went home and plugged it into its socket.Easy as could be.
Try that with todays TV.You need a lot of test gear and schematics to find a problem.

[GreenStormCloud]

216. Modern TVs rarely need repair.

There was a lot more than tubes in the old TVs, just as there is much in a modern TV. Mainly the circuits were made of discrete resistors, capacitors, and coils, and their electronic values (Measured in ohms, microfarads, and henrys) would drift over time until the circuit became detuned. Or the part burned out, or shorted out. You couldn't fix those at the supermarket TV tube tester. There was a huge difference between being a tube changer and being an actual TV repairman.

With many modern TVs, it is cheaper to dispose of it and get a new one.

All new TVs are flat screen for the same reason that computer monitors are now all flat screen. CRTs are powerhogs, take up a lot of space, and are heavy.

[conflictgirl]

120. Yes, our TV died a few months ago and were appalled that flat screens were all that were available

We are not big TV people - we don't want to be without one entirely but really don't want some fancy flat screen plasma whatever. We were hoping we could get something for a couple hundred bucks that wouldn't be the size of a dinner plate without being totally excessive but were wary of going with some off brand we'd never heard of as we didn't trust the reliability. Everything we saw was easily $500 minimum and we just couldn't afford to spend that much. Fortunately our parents had an old TV they were going to get rid of anyway so we took it off their hands. I don't want a flat screen, I don't want to spend $500 bucks on TV.

[Codeine]

135. You can get a 26" widescreen LCD

with 720P (DVD-quality) hi-def for $250 or less. Refurbs (as good as gold as they've gotten extra attention) will run you even less -- $129 for a 22" LCD.

Hell, for $500 you're looking at 37" 1080p LCD stuff.

[dysfunctional press]

143. that's insanity.

when i was growing up in the 70's, a 25-inch color tv was considered a HUGH screen, and were a pretty hefty investment as well.
today, you can get a brand new 24-inch hdtv lcd 1080p flat screen for $270.

http://www.amazon.com/ViewSonic-VT2430-24-Inch-1080p-HDTV/dp/B001KLEUOA/ref=sr_1_29?ie=UTF8&s=tv&qid=1256974431&sr=1-29

and that's on amazon.com. and only page 2 of HUNDREDS of pages of tv's- i hardly had to look at all. you could probably do just as well or better at a best buy, costco, or even crapmart.

why would anyone even WANT a picture-tube television anymore? they're incredibly heavy if you want a screen of any size(lead shielding for the crt), and they're power hogs. and compared to a brand new lcd 1080p- the picture REALLY SUCKS.

but hey- if you're happy with it...:eyes:

[conflictgirl]

147. Actually considering we're poor I was very happy with FREE

I'm still wary of spending a couple hundred bucks on a brand I've never heard of, but since we're using yet another older TV (as the last one was), I'm sure it will only be a matter of time until we need a new one. We're a smaller area so we only have the big chains - not even a Costco - and I refuse to go to a Walmart, but I'll check Amazon next time we need one.

[Codeine]

154. Best place to by stuff like that

is TigerDirect.com.

Oh man, the bargains are insane. BluRay players for 99 bucks! 1.5 Terabyte hard drive for $109.

I just love that site.

[Liberal_in_LA]

149. Plenty at Salvation Army / Good will

[backwoodsbob]

166. baby back ribs and crab was poor mans food?

damn I wish I was poor where that was

[nc4bo]

178. Ribs were typically thrown away by white folks and/or given to slaves along with other less

desireable cuts of meat like chitterlings, brains, tails, etc.

Crabs were just something you caught and ate.

At least that's what my grandmom told me.

[GreenStormCloud]

110. Cable was originally about getting clear reception.

In the 1950s, lots of places got terrible TV reception. Either they were in a valley, or far away from the tower, or they were in an area where two stations on the same frequency overlapped. Which one you got depended upon ionospheric bounce. Cable solved that. Folks began to pay cable, just so they could get the three networks. Then cable began to add channels, until you have today's cable, or satellite. For me, it is worth $30.00 a month to get 150 channels, including Showtime.

In the 1950s, all that was around was three networks by antenna with often cruddy recption.

And they quit broadcasting after the late movie.

I remember the 1950s, and they weren't so great.

[elehhhhna]

163. IIRC, cable was originally "sold" as commercial-free tv programming.

[GreenStormCloud]

172. Depends on when and where.

Very first system was in PA for people in a valley that had no reception at all. Back then it was called Community Antenna Television (CATV).

[madamesilverspurs]

116. Newspapers

I especially miss the old Sunday routine, curling up on the couch with the local weekend paper plus the Sunday edition of the Rocky Mountain News. Keep the coffee going, do the crosswords; then catch up on the magazines I hadn't gotten to during the week. Now I get my news mostly online, local stuff from the local TV stations. The newspaper subscriptions got dropped for budgetary reasons as well as environmental concerns, and the only magazine I get is the one from AARP. Sigh

---

[bedazzled]

202. it used to be by lunchtime you couldn't find a palm beach post

since they raised it to $2.00 on sunday ($1.00 weekday!)
there are mountains of them left at the end of the day.

since it's really skinny and you go through it in five
minutes, it's not much of a loss.

i miss fat sunday papers!

[pengillian101]

250. Me too!

:hi:

[nadinbrzezinski]

123. Well my parrots eat what we eat

so there. And I suggest people do that with their pets.

Look folks pooches did not eat purina for most of their lives among humans. They ate left overs... and table scraps. The dog I grew up with, blackie, lived to the age of 16 on that diet. Hell, brother tried to get him on kibble and dog refused.

Parrot owners. they should eat things like oh what we eat, a balanced diet... not ahem seeds.

Now houses, out of reach,

blue jeans, you kid me right? Those things used to be working class clothes... how what and how many designers?

Hey simple things like oh even going to the zoo or the baseball game... they are UP THERE in price.

So there you have it... and this country will only turn I fear, until the Empire is over and perhaps it does break apart.

[BrklynLiberal]

134. and all of that was possible with only one working parent....in most cases

[onenote]

226. you could probably live the way folks lived in the 50s with one working parent

you'd have to give up some stuff:

You'd have to get a car without a catalytic converter, without air bags, without power steering, power breaks,padded dashboards, am/fm radio, cd player, etc.
You'd have to give up your cell phone and get phone service with a party line.
You'd have to get rid of your color tv and get a small black and white set

Oh...and kiss your internet goodbye.

The point is that comparing "then" and "now" is nonsensical. Yes, the cost of certain things is different today than in the past. Often less. But comparisons are tenuous since you typically aren't comparing similar products. More often than not today's products have feature that were pure science fiction.

[1]

137. desiderata...

go placidly amid the noise and haste, and remember what peace there may be in silence.

as far as possible without surrender be on good terms with all persons.
speak your truth quietly and clearly; and listen to others, even the dull and ignorant; they too have their story.

avoid loud and aggressive persons, they are vexations to the spirit. if you compare yourself with others, you may become vain and bitter; for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself. enjoy your achievements as well as your plans.

keep interested in your career, however humble; it is a real possession in the changing fortunes of time. exercise caution in your business affairs; for the world is full of trickery. but let this not blind you to what virtue there is; many persons strive for high ideals; and everywhere life is full of heroism.

be yourself. especially, do not feign affection. neither be cynical about love; for in the face of all aridity and disenchantment it is as perennial as the grass.

take kindly the counsel of the years, gracefully surrendering the things of youth. nurture strength of spirit to shield you in sudden misfortune. but do not distress yourself with imaginings. many fears are born of fatigue and loneliness. beyond a wholesome discipline, be gentle with yourself.

you are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. and whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep
peace with your soul.

with all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world.

be cheerful.

strive to be happy.

[AdHocSolver]

150. In the 1950's and 1960's, a family could live a middle class life style on a modest income.

Nowadays, the same family would have trouble living what today is considered a middle class life style even earning what amounts to ten times the "average" salary back then.

Back then, an income of $6,000 to $7,000 a year was more than adequate for a family to live a comfortable life.

My parents bought a three bedroom, one-and-a-half bath house for $14,000 in the early 1950's.

You could buy a decent car for between $1,000 to $2000 back then. What's more, if you lived in the city, you only needed one car, as trolley cars and buses could take you anywhere in town for 20 cents.

In the 1960's, a semester at a local state college cost about $200 for 15 credits. Text books cost from $7.00 to $10.00 each. One could pay for tuition, books, and supplies working part time at $1.75 per hour. One could even support an old car to get to the job after classes since gas cost less than 20 cents a gallon.

As for doctor's making house calls, it was a real boon to families with a sick kid and only one car in the family. It was also better for public health not to drag an infectious kid on a bus to the doctor's office.

About television. Television sets back then used vacuum tubes and lasted 8 to 10 years with only occasional tube replacemsnt. You kept it until the picture tube went bad. The early sets were large and heavy. You bought one set, and one often bought a set that came in a nice wooden cabinet with a big, nice sounding speaker. It was a piece of furniture as well as a TV, and many people bought a large console that came with a radio and a phonograph player.

Moreover, even with only a few channels in the 1950's and 1960's, there was much more worth watching back then than there is today with all the cable channels. We have cable and I watch much less TV than I did back then, because it just isn't worth it.

We always had a telephone. We only occasionally made long distance telephone calls (you dialed the operator and told her the city and number that you wanted), since people used to write letters to each other. (for young people, a letter is like an e-mail today, except that you wrote on paper, put the letter in an envelope, addressed and stamped it, and dropped it in a mail box, or handed it to the mailman when he delivered mail to your house.)

Sure, there are a lot more conveniences and fun gadgets today than there were 40 or 50 years ago. However, living conditions back then were not like in the Middle Ages. And, one could live a comfortable lifestyle on a single income.

Maybe there wasn't all that fancy medical equipment back then. However, most people could afford to go to a doctor, and many could even afford health insurance and medicine. Today, millions can't even afford a doctor's visit, let alone medicine.

Furthermore, people today are addicted to the conveniences. Consider cell phones. In the old days, pay phones were everywhere and cost a nickel or a dime to make a call. Nowadays, people are glued to their cell phones and constantly prattling on them. It is no longer a handy convenience. It is as necessary as oxygen to many people. In the stores, in their cars, out walking, on a train, it seems like half the population is constantly microwaving their brains.

Fewer and fewer people today can afford a middle class life style. The corporations have upped the ante to join. With offshoring of jobs, and the scams being played by the banks and Wall Street, even fewer people are going to be able to afford it. This is the lesson to be learned by comparing the 1950's and 1960's to today.

[GreenStormCloud]

205. Middle class lifestyle of the 1950s sucked compared to today.

Home air conditioning was rare. In the summer, in the SouthWest and the South, you baked.

Medical. All of the medical equipment and tests that some posters seem to dismiss is actually vital life saving equipment. Today a doctor doesn't have to guess, he can have a test done and KNOW. Yes, we have a crisis over the cost, but please quit pretending that medical care in the 1950s was better.

Cars. Modern cars last longer, get better fuel economy, are much safer, and are less polluting. Unfortunately, the trade-off has been increased cost and difficutly of repair.

TV. TV sets were expensive, and color sets were for the wealthy. And they didn't last 8 to 10 years. Five years was about it. There was more than tubes to go wrong. Resistors, capicators, and coils of those days had values that drifted and would eventually cause a circuit to de-tune.

There were only three channels, and much of it wasn't worth watching. There were no alternative views to the editorial stance of the Big Three. Today, with over 150 channels plus the premium channels, if you can't find something good, you aren't looking very hard.

Phones. So you want to eliminate people easily talking to one another? BTW - Cell phones are also great emergency equipment. I was recently in an auto accident in which I was mildly injured. I was able to call 911 from my cell. I have also called a wrecker when I had an on-road breakdown. My wife and I use them to coordinate with each other. (I drop her off at store while I go have oil changed. When finished, return to store, call her and find out where she is. Tough for you that I use my freedom for our convenience.) BTW - Long distance was very expensive in the 1950s.

Mail. There is a reason why it is called "snail mail". A letter from one coast to the other could take a week to get there, unless you used air-mail and that was extra postage.

Pictures. Kodak Brownies were the middle-class camera. (I still have one.) Film cost. Developing took a week and it costs. Color was for the wealthy. It cost about $10 to have a roll of 12 color pictures developed. (And you were subject to the censorship of the developer.) Polaroid was for the wealthy. Even in the 1990s taking a lot of pictures could get pricey. Compare that to the cost of a single digital picture today.

Movies. The local place showed a movie for about two or three days, then changed the feature. If you missed it, you missed it. Now, I have a library of movies that I can see whenever I want to.

Home movies. 8mm, expensive and clumbersome to watch, usually B&W. Now, mini-DVD in a camcorder, modeately commonplace.

In our area, doctor's had quit making house calls well before the 1950s.

[AdHocSolver]

249. You missed the point of my post entirely.

I never meant to imply that modern conveniences were not worth having. I never meant to imply that modern technology wasn't better than the technology of the 1950's and 1960's.

My point was that more people could make use of (that is afford) the technology of the 1950's and the 1960's than the people of today can afford the present technology.

!. Medical equipment:

An MRI does you no good if you can't afford it. Moreover, many of the tests given in hospitals do not necessarily tell the doctor what is wrong and the best way to treat it. Many hospital tests and procedures are routinely given, whether they are medically warranted or not, in order to generate revenue. How do I know? I worked several years in hospitals and I could give examples, but I won't.

I also worked for two years for a medical electronics equipment manufacturer and learned how to fix their equipment.

2: TV sets:

I worked for over twenty years as an electronics technician, and spent four of those years fixing TV sets, from black-and-white all-tube sets to solid-state color TV's. The only TV I wasn't able to fix was a TV that burned, literally, to a crisp. The only time it wasn't worth fixing a TV, back in those days, was when the picture tube went bad, and we couldn't rejuvenate it. By the way, realigning the RF and IF circuits was seldom necessary, and required special test equipment to do properly. Readjusting the RGB controls on the back of the set as the picture tube aged, a simple procedure, often did wonders.

Today, it isn't worth trying to fix a TV. Nowadays, like practically everything else, it is a throwaway item. Your TV goes bad today, you wind up buying a new one.

As for quality of programming, cable (which I get), with all its myriad of channels, is a bigger wasteland than what was broadcast back in the 1950's and 1960's, and the advertising is more obnoxious, and there is more of it.

3: Cars.

I have been doing my own car repair for over 40 years. I started with my first car, which I bought as a college student in order to get to my part-time job after classes, which wasn't easy with public transportation, even back then.

The cars back then were designed to wear out and break down quickly. It was auto company greed, not technology, that cars were gas guzzling, unsafe polluters. The improvements began in the late 1970's because the government mandated improvements that forced the auto companies to use technology that had already been developed.

I had an old, big, heavy, full-sized Ford in the 1960's, which had an iron block V8, that got better gas mileage than most of the SUV's of today even with their fancy technology and computer controls.

Phones:

Cell phones are a wonder. We have two in our family, and they are really convenient. They are especially handy when traveling. They are also very affordable. They are the one worthwhile convenience of modern times that is affordable and worthwhile over technology back then.

That said, people today abuse cell phones. They babble constantly on them wherever you go. It is annoying to have to listen to a chorus of people babbling away in public places about issues that should be talked about in private. It is especially disconcerting to have to watch fools driving down the expressway at 70 MPH (or wherever) with cell phone in one hand, gesturing with the other, and steering with...?

Pictures:

My first camera was a Kodak Brownie. I don't have it anymore, but I bought one just like it a couple of years ago at a rummage sale for nostalgia's sake.

I don't have a digital camera, and I don't even like them. I have an assortment of 35 mm cameras that I bought over the years, almost all of them used and gotten for small change compared to their original prices. Because it is difficult to find someone to develop and print black-and-white film, I use only color film and take it to a local film store which does excellent work.

Making prints is far cheaper from film than it is to print at home from your computer using an ink jet printer. Ink cartridges are the biggest ripoff. If you pay $10.00 for one 3 oz. cartridge of ink, you are paying over $200.00 a gallon for just one color. I have owned three ink jet printers from two manufacturers and, not only did we not get the number of printed pages per cartridge as claimed, but two of them failed within a year, and they turned out to be unrepairable.

I am very selective about what I photograph and I compose the image, focus the lens, and expose the film to get the picture I want. People with digital cameras snap away like crazy with the idea of "fixing" the image in Photoshop on the computer later on. I can tell you there is nothing more boring than looking at 20 minutes worth of images of somebody's grandchild crawling on the floor drooling on the carpet.

Modern technology has not proliferated to the masses since the U.S. economy has downgraded the earning ability of many people. I recently saw Michael Moore's "Capitalism: A Love Story". It is about the millions of people in the U.S. who are losing their jobs, losing their health care, and are now losing their homes because of greedy bankers. Modern technology is of no use to them. They can't afford it. Runaway inflation has made what little money they have of no use.

With the same assets available to them in the 1950's and 1960's, they would have a better chance of making do, than they would today. Even having a cell phone won't do them much good if they can't find a place to plug it in and recharge the batteries.

[GreenStormCloud]

254. Technology of the 1950s was expensive back then.

A factory worker in the NorthEast or in Southern California might be able to afford the goodies, but much of the country was not able to. What was considered middle class varied from area to area, as did the cost of it.

I am saying that TVs of the 50s were expensive.

Phone service of the 50s was very expensive.

Cars were expensive, and didn't last long, and got terrible gas milage. I agree about the greed of the auto makers of the period, and of today. I became disgusted with them sometime in the 1970's.

Doctors in our area did NOT make house calls in the 50s. Look at the time consumed. Doctor gets call, drives 12 miles on winding country road to house (Average speed, 30 mph), sees kid for 15 minutes, drives back to office. Time used, about 1 1/4 hours. At that rate he gets to see about six patients in an eight hour day. Seven if he works ten hours. That is an extremely inefficient use of a doctor's time, doing all that driving. Better for everybody for the doctor to stay at the clinic and the sick people come to him. Then he can see up to 48 people in a day, assuming 15 minutes per person.

Pictures. My daughter just sent me hundreds of pictures that she took while she was in Asia and the South Pacific. They didn't cost her anything except the camera (which was a present from me). She sent them by e-mail - no cost. I rarely print pictures. (I agree with you on the cost of ink cartridges. Outrageous.) I sent them by email. If I want to see them, I open that file and view them on the screen.

Much electronics is no longer repaired. Cheaper to throw away and buy a new one. And all electronics have been falling in price. Look at the price of a computer (Millions) in the 1950s, and compare to today. Way cheaper and far more capable.

The OP simply selected the wrong set of items to gripe about. On those items, prices have been coming down and quality has been going up. Her complaint on medical care is muddied by her griping about the lack of house calls.

[bergie321]

264. Cheaper to throw away

I hate this. I used to buy a new cheap printer every time I ran out of ink because the printer was cheaper than a replacement cartridge and the new printer came with a cartridge.

[SoCalDem]

159. I took Mommie cat to the vet this week $122 (bloodwork & office visit)

she's 16, and is just "winding down", but I wanted to be sure she did not have something terrible. no kidney disease or liver disease. She'll just live out the time left to her..at home, with no intervention, unless she's in pain, and then I'll do the humane thing for her.

She's a bit anemic (we'll get her some OTC vitamins) and is losing weight. He's not sure why, but unless we want expensive scans & tests to uncover a hidden cancer somewhere, she'll just live out her days the best she can. At her age, the vet said he would not advise massive intervention at her age. (she outlived all four of her kittens)

[woo me with science]

160. Going to the theater or symphony.

Taking a whole family is a huge chunk of monthly pay now. Seems to me that the middle class used to go more often, but now it is mainly the rich.

[a kennedy]

161. toilet paper!!!! remember the size of that cardboard roll when finished

with the paper??? look at the size of the core now, it used to be like the size of a quarter now it's d*mn near the size of a silver dollar!!!

[tabbycasper]

213. my toilet paper comes from work

I know it's not a good thing to do, but what little grocery budget I have is spent on store brand canned veggies and fruit and whatever I can find on sale.
So a roll leaves my work in my purse about once a week. I would feel bad about it, but as my boss travels the world on vacation once or twice a year, I dont lose much sleep.

[pengillian101]

251. Words escape me.

A person who has posted 7 posts admits stealing from her employer.

Sounds kinda funny to me.

Edit for fixing gender.

[tabbycasper]

261. what sounds funny about it?

I don't find it a bit funny that I cant really afford everything I need, and have to stoop to doing things like that. Would you prefer I do without? Maybe use leaves?
And so what if I only have 7 posts? I don't have my own computer and have to go to a relative's house to use theirs. I can't sit around all day posting.

[pengillian101]

266. Stealing doesn't sound funny at all, let alone justifying it.

"So a roll leaves my work in my purse about once a week. I would feel bad about it, but as my boss travels the world on vacation once or twice a year, I dont lose much sleep."

Nope, that ain't funny one bit and justifying it because your boss takes vacations is just beyond words.

I have been poor where I didn't have enough to eat, but I never stole.

[MadHound]

165. A lot of this depends on where you live, what your priorities are, and your lifestyle

My phone bill is low because I live in the country and deal with a cooperative. My other bills are low because of the same reason. I live in the Midwest, and property values never did that steep increase that we saw in the bubble markets on the coasts and some urban areas.

Living in the country does take gas, however I chose to buy a nice little scooter that gets 100 mph. It gets me where I need to go and cuts down on costs. I pay a bit more for quality goods, but that quality more than pays for itself in durability and longevity. This goes for everything from cars to tools to electronics.

I tend to shy away from the latest must have consumer trends. I don't have a Blackberry or iPhone, iPod or such other things. I don't download music, but rather buy it the old fashioned way, CD's and such, and it is generally cheaper if you know where to look. My cell phone is just that, a phone, and I rarely use it anyway.

I grow a garden and much of my own food. I swap with my neighbors to get a lot of the rest.

I recognize the fact that not everybody can do all of this, but certainly most people can make some changes to their life in order to bring down costs.

[femrap]

169. K and R

A shameful joke.

[Name removed]

170. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JackDragna]

174. Going to sporting events.

I remember when a ticket to a baseball game, even the bigs, was affordable. Parents could take their family to the ballpark without too much expense. Now? Even baseball, with its long season and numerous games, has priced itself out of the budget of the average fan, except as an occasional splurge. The other sports cost even more.

[TheKentuckian]

181. I had a near conniption at the $7.50 Budweiser at the Reds game this summer

The tickets aren't so bad (in steerage) but anything else is a killer.

I think the killers are energy in all forms, housing, transportation, education, and fresh vegetables and lean meat. In other words the must have stuff.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

195. And boxing on television

My dad was a pro boxer in his youth and the sport has always been popular in my family. You used to be able to see the best fights on free TV back in the 50s, 60s, and 70s. Now, you not only have to pay cable or satellite prices to see HBO or Showtime that carry boxing, but they hit you with an extra $50 payment per big fight to see it on pay-per-view. Many of the big fights on television now involve this extra fee and it's getting worse. If it helped boxers earn a better living for getting their heads bashed it would be worth it, but the lion's share is going to the promoters and the networks, with a few rare exceptions.

[alliswellandsoitis]

179. We need to give thanks for what we have...It's still way more than others

from other countries.

[blues90]

180. I have similar thoughts.

Each year I made a bit more money yet prices rose to meet that or lower it.

All the vets who charged little now have an entire process which seem almost scare tactics , same with auto repair shops, everything really.

We over the years have bills we never had . internet and cable , cell phones.

Yes these things are nice to have but for most of my life they did not exist and I was fine with the way it was.

A car did not cost 20,000 , most of all the appliences lasted forever and things could be rapaired easy. Your rent was no 75% or your income.

There was much less noise and people were not in their own world so separate and isolated.

[Kaleva]

182. Home dental care, frost on your blanket in the morning;....

those were the days.

[Kaleva]

184. We would shoot our pets if they got too sick....

No one I knew could afford or would bother to take Rover or Mittens to the vet. Most people bought used cars. I used to love to visit a well off aunt and uncle as they had a color TV even if it got the same one channel as my parents TV did. Would many here want to go back to the party line phone system? A private line cost extra and wasn't available in all areas.

[DeschutesRiver]

186. Same deal with our cat

Got her from the pound, and she just died this past month:( But we got her young (1-2 years old) and was either 19 or 20, and while her health did fade a bit the last year (had her on thyroid meds), she was running across the floor, sliding into home base every few days, and even figured out how to jump onto a chair, then the window ledge, and from there on up to the counter within weeks of her passing.

When we got her, she'd been declawed by a previous owner, so she lived inside, which meant she was never vaccinated since there was almost zero risk of her contracting anything.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

192. Guitars

The quality has gone down and the prices have gone up. In 1970 I bought a pre CBS Fender Telecaster (used) for $100 in a pawn shop. I bought a 1950s Epiphone Broadway jazz guitar for $300. I bought a Gibson Les Paul Junior for $150 (vintage). I bought an early 60s Gibson ES 335 for in 1973 for $500. You can't touch these guitars nowadays because of collectors. I was salivating over a Gibson L-4C the other day. In the early 70s, I could have bought one for around $500. The store wanted $6000 for it.



The problem is, no one can make one as good as the vintage guitars without costing as much as the Pope's balls. Forgetting about the collectors of vintage guitars, you can buy a brand new cheap Chinese copy of legendary American made guitars, but they're made of cheap plywood with bad woods and terrible electronics. They sound dead and don't feel right. You want to buy a new Gibson Custom shop ES-175 reissue? They're not as well made as the old ones and it's going to cost you upwards towards $5,000. I found several for sale in the early 70s for $500 and below. If you want a truly quality jazz guitar today, expect to pay upwards towards $10,000 and more for something tap tuned, made with good woods, and with quality craftsmanship like days gone by.

[Realityhack]

193. "Too expensive: a list of things that used to be affordable... Phone"

This isn't a list of things that used to be affordable and are now luxury goods. It is a list of things you feel like bitching about.
I personally like bitching about shit so I have no problem with it. But I do have a problem with misrepresentation.

[sl8]

194. Television is far cheaper now.

Televisions are far, far cheaper now than they were in the past. I now receive about 4 times as many channels OTA (free) now as I did 35 years ago (that's including the new ATSC sub-channels). Not having a cable or satellite subscription today costs the same as it did then - nothing.

I doubt that phone service costs more today than it did 30 or 40 years ago, but I'm open to evidence to the contrary. The choices of services are certainly more abundant and confusing now.

[hunter]

208. I remember I could drive all over the southwestern U.S. for almost nothing.

I was working as a furniture mover, and on some days I'd make $100. I was single, young, wild and free, and it cost $6.00 to fill the tank of my little economy car. If I felt like driving to Arizona or Mexico I'd just go.

[JNelson6563]

209. A most excellent rant.

Yes, there is an angle for everything in our lives. Everything is just one big marketing ploy. What amazes me is how so many buy into it completely. Life revolves around maintaining/obtaining so many things we don't really need to live but have been convinced that we do.

Of course as has been mentioned, you didn't even go into housing. That is another slice of madness from this pie.

Julie

[bikingaz]

214. Average income for family of 4 = 40K - more taxes not needed

Why do we want to increase the burden for the average families. The role of the government is allow us life, liberty & the pursuit of happiness. Not screw us by excessive taxes, conscription, power grabs thru artificial programs, gerrymandering and other shenanigans.

We waste more in this country than in most countries. And our government is the most wasteful of all.
Read "War is a racket" a speech delivered in 1933, by Major General Smedley Butler, USMC.

[toocoolforschool]

210. which country to you is better? i can buy you a one way ticket there ;)

[nc4bo]

212. "w"hy should any of us go anywhere when we can make this one better? nt

[Robb]

227. Love it or leave it, eh?

Nice. Looking forward to big things from you. :rofl:

[Go2Peace]

239. Ah, the mind of a freeper is always to precious and kind

[onenote]

220. apples meet oranges. what a bizarre OP

Television is now a luxury because you can get more channels if you pay for cable or satellite? Well, its true that if I want more channels I can pay and get them. But if I want the same television service I had before my town was wired for cable its still there and its still free and, in fact, instead of the five channels I had in the late 60s and early 70s (ABC, CBS, NBC, an "independent" station that featured reruns, and a PBS station), I now have, if I choose free over the air service, nine commercial stations (including ABC, NBC, CBS, FOX, CW, ION, MyNetwork and Univision) and three PBS stations. Total additional cost to me to get these stations over my cost in the 60s and 70s? Ten dollars net cost for a digital to analog converter (after govt coupon). Oh, and with that box, I actually get several more free multicast channels.

Or I could swing over to KMart and pick up a new 32 inch HD set for $400, Compare that to the price of a new 25 inch color set in the mid 1970s --anywhere from $500 to $700 or, in today's dollars, $1500 to nearly $3000.

By the way, for a lot of people, without cable, they had no television, or one or two channels at best. So if it costs more today to get something than it cost back then to get nothing, you have a point, although I'll be damned if i can figure out what it is.

Same for telephone service. I can still remember when there were party lines, and after that, rotary phones that came in any color you wanted so long as it was black. Advanced service capability? What was that. Today the average per minute price of a local call in under a dime. I doubt it was less than that in inflation adjusted dollars when i was kid. I have more calling plans to choose from, more services. And long distance? Radically less expensive than it was. One could argue pretty persuasively that long distance was a luxury and now its not. Same for international calling. Same thing for mobile phone service. Maybe having choice of long distance plans or cell plans gives you a headache. It doesn't make it more expensive or -- horrors -- unaffordable.

I have to ask: if cable/satellite service are no longer affordable for the average person, how come,, there are far more people subscribing to cable/satellite than ever before?

[GreenStormCloud]

229. Right on, brother.

Hey, since some in this thread are nostalgic for the 60s, I might as well use a bit of the language from those times. Good post you made.

International calling was unheard of in the 50s, except for the extremely wealthy. Now the cost is trivial, and you can dial direct.

I wonder what kind of screaming we would hear if some of the poster here who think that the 50s were so great could be forced to actually live a month in the early 50s?

Polio was a great fear at the time. Measles, Mumps, Chicken Pox were expected for all kids to get. Getting your tonsils yanked was common. (I still have mine.)

[Go2Peace]

240. Unfortunately the OP picked the wrong items to compare. But does anyone really think it is easier

to survive? If you do you aren't working in retail and consider yourself lucky.

[onenote]

243. based on life expectancies? A whole lot easier to survive.

If by surviving you mean actually live.

If you mean keep up with the joneses...its probably no different. Put another way, several posts on this thread compare what it cost to maintain a "middle class" lifestyle today to what it cost in the past. But the target is always moving. I suspect it cost a damn sight more to maintain a middle class existence in 1950 than it did in 1900.

[GreenStormCloud]

244. Those are the ones the OP picked, so those are the ones I responded to.

I am under no obligation to read her mind. If she picked bad examples, that is her problem, not mine. Let her pick some good ones.

[rucky]

222. Fresh fruits & veggies. n/t

[miyazaki]

224. it costs twenty bucks to just walk out your front door. n/t

[Robb]

225. Good to see you posting. And an excellent one, to boot. nt

[boppers]

228. Self entitled luxury bullshit.

Remember when unemployment was 25%, we had food riots in the streets, and only the rich could afford the theater? Guess what, that's how much of the world *still* lives, and we go through it every 100 years or so.

[jmm]

230. The hospital my mom was born in told my grandparents she was the smallest baby born alive there.

They delayed their plans to buy a house because of the hospital bills incurred for her birth but a one salary family with two kids still managed to pay it off and save a down payment for a house within a few years. Today on an apprentice machinist salary a family could not bounce back financially so easily from that type of situation.

[snooper2]

255. at least prices for weed have stayed fairly steady

:rofl:

[snooper2]

257. Here is all you really need...

a place to do your bidness..



a strong work animal



your neighbors to come over and help build a home



and some games




:)

[SemiCharmedQuark]

262. My mom's pets were inexpensive because they ate scraps, were pretty much

left to their own devices and when they got sick, they were taken for a walk in the woods by my grandfather and never came back.

[TeeYiYi]

263. The dentist...!...

I can't afford the following work (almost $7000) recently quoted by my dentist:
_______________

Cleaning (deep scaling / root planing) - $760

Replace some tiny gumline fillings that fell out - $1015

Two crowns with root canals - $4980

______

TYY :shrug: (And, I can't afford NOT to have this work done.)...

[quiller4]

265. What do you consider average? None of the things are your list

are out of reach of a smal family earning the median income in my community.

"Our life spans in America haven't improved a whit in years."

My sister, a breast cancer survivor since the early 1990s, would disagree as would my half-sister who watch her mother die a slow, painful death from breast cancer in the mid 1940s. My Dad's twin was just a few years older than I when she died from heart complications from Graves disease. I was diagnosed in July of this year. My heart complications were immediately addressed. I won't suffer with years of angina and because I am so closely monitored it is unlikely I'll die of heart disease at 60 like she did.

I adopted a neutered male dog from our humane society in June when my 16 year old Spring-Brittany died. The adoption fee was $70 and included 10 lb of premium dog food and a vet check-up with rabies vaccination. The cocker had already received a kennel cough vaccination and worming from the humane society. We feed Iams and it costs us a manageable $5/month.

We live in an area where we could use a converter box and antenna to receive 7 TV stations for free. It is our choice to pay for cable and cable broadband because we seldom watch the local channels.

We have a wired phone without long distance service and use prepaid cell for the few long distance calls we make. Our communication expense is far less in real dollars and certainly as a percent of earnings than my parents paid in the good old 1950s or 1960s.

Far from scrambling to keep up, my spouse and I worked calmly to scale down to make early retirement possible. We live modestly but comfortably on a retirement income that is within 2% of the household median in our community.