Letterman and Me

[supernova]

Letterman and Me
BY NELL SCOVELL

....

Most media stars responded by defending one of their own. On The View, Barbara Walters remarked that Dave “is a very attractive man” and offered a blanket excuse for his in-house affairs: “Where do you meet people? In the workplace.” Joy Behar took a tougher stance and argued that his behavior might have created an atmosphere that’s uncomfortable for other female employees, especially “if you’re one of the girls who works there and just doing your job.” But Walters had little sympathy for the working girls. “Maybe you’re annoyed today, but that’s not necessarily sexual harassment,” Walters said. “It isn’t sexual harassment,” she added.
Actually, it may be. There’s a subset of sexual harassment called sexual favoritism that, according to the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, can lead to a
“hostile work environment,” often “creating an atmosphere that is demeaning to women.”

And that pretty much sums up my experience at Late Night with David Letterman.

....

Without naming names or digging up decades-old dirt, let’s address the pertinent questions. Did Dave hit on me? No. Did he pay me enough extra attention that it was noted by another writer? Yes. Was I aware of rumors that Dave was having sexual relationships with female staffers? Yes. Was I aware that other high-level male employees were having sexual relationships with female staffers? Yes. Did these female staffers have access to information and wield power disproportionate to their job titles? Yes. Did that create a hostile work environment? Yes. Did I believe these female staffers were benefiting professionally from their personal relationships? Yes. Did that make me feel demeaned? Completely. Did I say anything at the time? Sadly, no.

....

Now, I don’t want a lawsuit. I don’t want compensation. I don’t want revenge. I don’t want Dave to go down (oh, grow up, people). I just want Dave to hire some qualified female writers and then treat them with respect. And that goes for Jay and Conan, too.

http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/features/2009/10/david-letterman-200910?printable=true


OK, I admit that I was one of the ones who wanted more info before passing judgement on Dave, but OK. I have it. It's way past time for the writing rooms to open up to women.

[Captain Hilts]

1. Women just aren't permitted to control the conversation. On Cap Hill or writing staffs for TV. nt

[supernova]

2. That's it exactly

We can "participate" to a limited degree, but we almost never have the final say so on a public debate of this kind. I'm glad Nell Scovell decided to write this article.

[Captain Hilts]

3. I remember when men did voice overs for bra ads on TV. Women still don't do voiceovers for financial

ads on TV. We've got the guy from The Unit. Jason Robards. James Earl Jones, etc.

But no women.

But I remember also the bra ad where a man explained why a certain brand was more comfortable. Insane. I wonder what brand of pontoons he preferred? Or pads?

[supernova]

5. Ha. I remember male

voiceovers on douche ads too.

[lob1]

6. Tina Fey does. It happens, but not often enough.

[supernova]

8. Part of her fame

comes from the fact is that she's rare.

Don't get me wrong, I really enjoy her and hope she has a long happy career. But I really hope that others will come along.

[Captain Hilts]

9. SNL turned down Fran Leibowitz in the late '70s. nt

[dysfunctional press]

13. well, after her sister fawn was killed in that tragic kiln explosion...

it really took the humor out of her for awhile.

[Captain Hilts]

14. Huh?

[dysfunctional press]

29. "She was going to make a pot for me,"

http://www.thebluerepublic.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=108

...A boyfriend, Frank Lymon from Amherst College reportedly told Fawns friends that "We were engaged to be engaged." "She was going to make a pot for me," he said.


frank lyman
amherst college

[supernova]

18. Joke Fail

If you have to explain it, it's a bad joke.

[Captain Hilts]

20. Well, damn. DU needs more humor!

Enough of mine have failed or been taken seriously...

[drbtg1]

58. Very true! Also a bit more cultural literacy

That joke should not have to have been explained. ALL of you should have seen National Lampoon's Animal House by now!

[Captain Hilts]

67. I've seen it dozens of times, but not in a while. GREAT film. Belushi was the best actor since Tracy

[mitchum]

103. I think you're right; he could flicker all human emotions across that face.

Just a goddamn shame...

[Captain Hilts]

109. I get really pissed just thinking of it. Tracy would have loved him. nt

[dem mba]

113. tell that to my female CEO, numerous VPs, manager and director

at the Fortune 500 media company I work at.

edited for spelling.

[Berry Cool]

4. Hurray!!!! Someone in the know finally said it!!!! K&R!!!!

When this news came out, anyone who dared to say it made Dave look bad was usually derided right here in our so-called progressive circle as being an uptight prude "against two consenting adults having sex if they want to." So what if it was on the job?

This cuts right to the point: people having sex with people they work for, or who work for them, creates an inherently unequal workplace environment. And oftentimes, women are the ones who suffer.

[supernova]

7. It certainly squicks out

others who aren't part of "the inner circle."

I was really looking for something like this. Other women who work for him now are certainly silent. Understandably so, unfortunately.

[Captain Hilts]

101. Like in college, when some of the students call the prof by their first names and others do not. nt

[redqueen]

11. +1

Also, this is good: "I don’t want Dave to go down (oh, grow up, people)."

She's still got it. :)

[truedelphi]

34. My coffee kicked in just as I read your words.

For some reason, that first time around, the double entendere had gone over my grey matter.

[itsrobert]

10. Sour grapes

When there's a issue in the work place you speak up. Not do a tell all, years later.

[supernova]

17. That's really the point though

If you aren't the one engaging in it, you can be fired for "speaking up."

It's easy to say that if you don't have to keep the very wolves at bay. Keep a roof over your head and food in your stomach.

[seabeyond]

27. of course, dude... just gotta be sour grapes or clarifying the issue for dumbshits that dont get it

hm

[Writer]

100. I endured a sexual harassment situation in the broadcast industry.

This didn't involve entertainment television and celebrities, but nonetheless, in many major corporations, the company will do what they can to squeeze you out.

I spoke up, they tried to squeeze me out, but I held firm through an incredible amount of emotional trauma and grief, and found my way up and out to a better job - WITHIN the same broadcasting company.

The toll? Nearly losing my sanity.

[itsrobert]

106. But, you made a big statement

for women who came after you. It's hard to be the one to speak up, so many people take the easy way out and say nothing, or they speak out years later. Men do the same thing, so it's not just women.

[Writer]

107. I'll tell you what: Because of the absolute pain and damage to my psyche that I endured...

after that moment, I didn't report my most recent encounter with sexual harassment (in academia). I simply cannot endure that pain once again and the disgusting political pressure surrounding it - not to mention feeding into the narcissistic behavior that caused it to begin with.

[Darth_Kitten]

126. Right, because the problem gets solved then and there, right?

n/t

[dysfunctional press]

12. most women just aren't that funny.

:shrug:

[Captain Hilts]

15. Women think women are funny. We're 52% of the population. Men's greatest fear is being laughed

at, especially by women. They are really uncomfortable with it.

[supernova]

16. Says who?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7V0iqhU7lE

[Captain Hilts]

19. Women are branded as humorless because we are less likely to like the 3 Stooges or Adam Sandler.

[supernova]

21. +100

:D

The modern day one I guess would be Seth Rogan.

[EFerrari]

25. Comedy is an incredibly sexist field.

The assumptions made in that community are sort of hilarious in themselves. If you're an SO of a standup, you are thought of in the bedroom, in the kitchen and how you look sitting at a table in public. Nobody wonders, let alone asks, if you're writing the material. They're somewhat stuck in the 70s.

[dysfunctional press]

22. personal experience.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/most

[Captain Hilts]

33. Men and women respond to different humor. Our relations are VERY self-selecting.

A collection of experiences is not data.

[dysfunctional press]

35. where did i claim it as "data" ?

:shrug:

[Captain Hilts]

43. You are using it to back up the validity of your view. nt

[dysfunctional press]

47. and?

is it your contention that personal experience and observation can NEVER be used to back up a claim?

[EFerrari]

23. Larry Summers, is that you?

[Kitty Herder]

60. LOL Great response.

[seabeyond]

30. male comics that spend all their time dissing women everyway they can.... just so damn funny.

damn... this thread brings out the, well, another hm.

[supernova]

32. Because they've got nothing

useful to say.

[dysfunctional press]

41. name two that spend ALL their time doing so.

and andrew dice clay doesn't count.

[EFerrari]

53. Who is openning at Zanie's right now? Probably him.

lol

[dysfunctional press]

59. it doesn't look like he has any upcoming gigs at zanies...

he seems to spend most of his onstage time at the riviera in las vegas.

http://www.andrewdiceclay.com/CDA5240F87574D8387EBDE8FEC733210/tour/tour.asp

and i always figured him for more of an atlantic city kind of guy...:shrug:

[EFerrari]

61. I meant, who is the opener at Zanie's?

Whoever it is, that's a good candidate. :)

[dysfunctional press]

71. susie essman?

http://www.chicago.zanies.com/news.php?NewsSection=Susie+Essman

[EFerrari]

80. Well then, maybe not. Or we can hope not.

lol

[Captain Hilts]

93. Well, and the women comedians trashed themselves - Diller, Rivers, Fields. nt

[Kitty Herder]

66. You know what's funny?

The two blogs that consistently crack me up, make me literally LOL every time, are written by radical feminists. But the meme that feminists are humorless will not die. Why? I suppose because feminists don't laugh at sexist humor. It ain't funny. Why laugh? Social pressure?

I think that holds true for non-feminist women as well. Comedy relies on sexism as a staple. That's obviously going to make women uncomfortable in that particular field.

[dysfunctional press]

68. a lot of radical feminists tend to crack me up as well...

unfortunately- it's usually the ones that aren't trying to be funny.

go figure. :shrug:

[supernova]

111. Funny Feminist blogs

These people are funny, consistently so.

http://www.heartless-bitches.com/

[closeupready]

122. Joan Rivers has never made you laugh?

I'm sorry, but you are very, very wrong.

[dysfunctional press]

127. do you even understand the meaning of the word "most"?

apparently not.

:eyes:

but no, i've never actually found joan rivers to be all that amusing...at least not in the past 30 years or so. :shrug:

[closeupready]

128. Jay Leno's show is a complete flop. Meanwhile, Joan Rivers soldiers on,

she is worth a few hundred million, as I understand.

I think most women are far funnier than most men, frankly.

[dysfunctional press]

129. you're entitled to your opinion.

but what has joan rivers done lately, besides appearing as a total shrew on celebrity apprentice? if she's "soldiering on"- then what are her current and upcoming comedy gigs?

personally, i don't find jay leno all that amusing either- but even though his current show is a deserved flop- he DOES have a current job- his net worth is only around $100 million- but joan also has 20 years on him- and she gets a sizeable chunk of her income from qvc, not comedy.

[closeupready]

130. I'm not aware that she really has a current gig, but

I do recall she did shows in NYC last summer - small arenas, clubs. Whatever, it doesn't matter. We just disagree. Not trying to 'win' here. Peace. :)

[dem629]

133. No.

[supernova]

24. Successful funny women

I want to create a subthread noting successful funny women down through the ages. And I mean women who made their livelyhoods being funny:

1) Phyllis DIller

2) Fanny Brice

3) Erma Bombeck


Please feel free to add more...

[EFerrari]

26. Lucille Ball, Carol Burnett, Gracie Allen.

[supernova]

92. Gracie Allen

played dumb, but she wrote a lot of their material.

She was definitely only dumb in front of an audience.

[Captain Hilts]

121. Gracie Allen ran on the "Surprise Party" ticket in 1940 and got 4K votes despite eventually

telling folks to vote for a real candidate.

There's a great 1940 photograph with Allen, Eleanor Roosevelt and Tom Dewey's wife. It's on the Corbis site.

[redqueen]

28. Lucille Ball

Gilda Radner

Joan Rivers

Kathy Griffin (I think so anyway)

[supernova]

45. Kathy certainly belongs

:thumbsup:

[EFerrari]

31. Elaine May, Whoopi, Goldie Hawn.

[supernova]

37. Elaine May!

That's who I was trying to think of just now!

:thumbsup:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GH0_BQ9a1Ro

[mitchum]

96. Many claim that Woody Allen stole his "neurotic intellectual" shtick...

from May.
And there is a lot of evidence to support that claim.

[supernova]

98. Interesting. I did not know that

Elaine was fall down funny. Woody strays into annoying an a regular basis. It could have something to do with the fact that May & Nichols did little TV segments and comedy clubs, rather than 2-hour movies.

[redqueen]

36. Madeline Kahn

[closeupready]

131. Oh, yes! I'd forgotten about her.

She was a riot in everything she did. It was sad to discover she'd died of breast cancer - for some reason, I thought she'd just simply stopped working, and turned out, she had actually died. :(

[Captain Hilts]

38. Fran Lebowitz, Sue Townsend...

[supernova]

39. Lily Thomlin

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocBO0fr1Ui4

[truedelphi]

40. Gilda, and then

Gilda Gilda and Gilda. (She was that important to me.)

[laughingliberal]

42. Wanda Sykes nt

[Captain Hilts]

94. Moms Mabley, if that's the correct spelling. nt

[supernova]

102. OMG! I had almost forgotten about her!

I loved her when I was a kid!

Too bad not that many people know about her now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqI-209wt1Q&NR=1

edit: If anyone could get Letterman et al to straighten up, it would be Moms Mabley! :D

[hileeopnyn8d]

112. I forgot about her too

My mom used to say to me when I thought I was *so* funny as a kid - "Who do you think you are, Moms Mabley?"

The funniest thing about that, I had no idea who the heck Moms Mabley was at the time.

[eShirl]

110. +1

[rvablue]

44. Wanda Sykes, Julia Louis-Dreyfuss, Whoopi Goldberg back in her stand up days

Lisa Kudrow.

[bridgit]

46. Elvira Kurt

http://www.elvirakurt.com/intro.html

[EFerrari]

48. from AbFab and other shows, Jennifer Saunders and Dawn French.

[itsrobert]

49. Barbra Streisand

She was funny at one time.

[EFerrari]

51. She's great. In the same tradition, Sally Field, Sissy Spacek,

Emma Thompson. Eta: Liza Minnelli. She was also great.

[Captain Hilts]

54. Terrific actress. Good story-teller in real life. Yes. nt

[supernova]

74. She's what made me remember

Fanny Brice.

:-)

[supernova]

50. Carol Leifer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kkcilFQc3A

[supernova]

52. Ruth Buzzi & Joann Worley

God! I'm showing my age. :P

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sf_Oz9yFAak

[EFerrari]

55. Judi Dench, Diane Keaton, Louise Lasser.

Me, too. :)

[supernova]

57. Mary Kay Place

also from that era.

Vitamin L

/www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJGn1bZmxxk

[Captain Hilts]

89. MKP is horribly UNDERrated. Good call. nt

[Better Today]

85. Joan Cuzack. Her characters are just fabulous.

[Captain Hilts]

108. I completely agree. She's great. nt

[redqueen]

56. Amy Sedaris

[ecstatic]

62. Ellen DeGeneris, Joy Behar, Mo'Nique

list goes on and on

[EFerrari]

64. Paula Poundstone. Our local Deb Durst is fall down funny.

[supernova]

72. Paula!

I love Paula!

Deb Durst haven't heard of, but I'll check her out! Thanks. :-)

[EFerrari]

77. She's married to Will Durst who is a headliner

but we used to call her "the funny Durst". She used to work with one or more improv groups.

/typo

[supernova]

83. Oh I see

Thanks.

[redqueen]

63. Janeane Garofalo

[supernova]

65. Linda Bloodworth Thomason

Head writer and producer for lots of TV.

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0089124/

[redqueen]

69. There are so many women I've seen doing standup on Comedy Central...

I can't remember their names, but they were just as hilarious as the male comics.

I'm kinda shocked that comment was made, even... but well, no... really I'm not.

[supernova]

70. It's a non sequitur

More designed to get us off kilter, rather than trying to be funny. Quite a few DUers love pulling that crap.

[redqueen]

73. DUers I love?

Hmmm.

[supernova]

75. It was a typo

Sorry. :blush: Corrected.

Damn my autofill. :P

[redqueen]

78. LOL!

I was sitting here trying to figure out who you meant... :rofl:

[Captain Hilts]

90. That women have no humor is a standard male rap. "Only women go to see...X," so it's not as good.

[redqueen]

95. It's so asinine.

How can that kind of statement not be considered laughable on its face?

Oh right... sexism. ;)

[redqueen]

79. Kristen Schaal

[mitchum]

86. Elayne Boosler...a VERY important figure for women in modern comedy

[supernova]

91. Yes! Thank you, mitchum

:applause:

[supernova]

Dupe

I wonder if the admins will ever have time to fix this echo?

[supernova]

87. Isabel Sanford

a.k.a Louise " 'ousie" Jefferson.

[hileeopnyn8d]

114. Roseanne Barr

She's not as funny as she used to be, but I remember going to a comedy club in the early 80s where I saw the soon to be famous comedienne and I thought she was great.

And her television show was pretty ground-breaking at the time.

[mitchum]

97. LaWanda Page performed perhaps the bluest club act I have ever seen

She was great

[supernova]

99. Ann Meara of Stiller & Meara, aka

Ben Stiller's mom, for you young'uns.

[mitchum]

104. When I was a little kid, I wanted to grow up and marry her

[supernova]

105. I thought she was way cool.

:D

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

115. Nora Ephron, Bette Midler

[supernova]

118. Liz Winstead & Madeleine Smithberg - co founders of TDS

[supernova]

120. Bea Arthur

Because there wasn't anybody like Maude!

[Lautremont]

123. Dame Edna.

[girl gone mad]

76. Well, this is pretty much what went through my mind when I first heard the news..

and saw that the girl he was schtupping had gotten lots of plum walk-on segments on the show.

Shitty work environment for women.

[supernova]

82. True, and she's saying

that it's not just Dave's office. Most late night is like that because it's mostly male-dominated, from the "talent" to the writers' room.

[Better Today]

81. This is too rational and calm to be written by a woman. :eyeroll:

[Better Today]

84. And a REC for the great list of comediennes being constructed here as well

[supernova]

88. Thanks!

:D

[Gabi Hayes]

117. same here, but what about Kathleen Madigan, or the woman to whom Letterman owes his career?

Merill Markoe

I love her books

[Gabi Hayes]

116. can't believe nobody mentioned sarah palin

[Captain Hilts]

119. Merrill Markoe can be VERY funny. nt

[supernova]

124. Introduce me

Who is Merrill Markoe?

[Captain Hilts]

125. She's the humanoid who lived with David Letterman for many years. She invented

Stupid Pet tricks, etc.

But she has written some books and done a special on how to be glamorous where she went to the beauticians that do drag queens to make herself look good. She figured if they can make a man look like Marilyn Monroe, they should be able to do something for her.

She has sat in for Stephanie Miller.

[dem629]

132. Her real reason for the outrage is near the bottom of the first page.

I’m also aware of several worthy females who have submitted material and never heard back. In fact, I’m one of them. Back in June, I heard Late Show was considering hiring a contributing monologue writer who could work from home, so I submitted six single-spaced pages of jokes. I’ve yet to receive any response.

So...it was hostile and she abhors Dave's treatment of women, yet she still applies for a job on his show all these years later? Yes, it's from home, but if she was truly outraged from the start, why desire to be part of his show? Writing credit? Paycheck? Ah, sorry. They didn't call her back and now she's mad. Perfect.

[Berry Cool]

134. Oh, bull. She's gone on to have a fine career in the business. This isn't just that.

Perhaps she was hoping things had changed?

Must be nice to dismiss everyone's anger as just being payback for rejection.

As for the funny women list here...gotta add Andrea Martin and Catherine O'Hara of SCTV. Gems, both of 'em.

Only humorless men think women can't be funny.