Marathon median times drop as the masses enter. Hard core runners despair of the trend.

[Liberal_in_LA]

Plodders Have a Place, but Is It in a Marathon?

Every weekend during this fall marathon season, long after most runners have completed the 26.2-mile course — and very likely after many have showered, changed and headed for a meal — a group of stragglers crosses the finish line.

Many of those slower runners, claiming that late is better than never, receive a finisher’s medal just like every other participant. Having traversed the same route as the fleeter-footed runners — perhaps in twice the amount of time — they get to call themselves marathoners.

And it’s driving some hard-core runners crazy.

“It’s a joke to run a marathon by walking every other mile or by finishing in six, seven, eight hours,” said Adrienne Wald, 54, the women’s cross-country coach at the College of New Rochelle, who ran her first marathon in 1984. “It used to be that running a marathon was worth something — there used to be a pride saying that you ran a marathon, but not anymore. Now it’s, ‘How low is the bar?’ ”

Tens of thousands of runners are training for marathons this time of year. As the fields continue to grow — primarily by adding slower runners — so has the intensity of the debate over how quickly an able-bodied runner should finish the once-elite event that is now an activity for the masses.

---------------------

Trends show that marathon finishers are getting slower and slower — and more prevalent — according to Running USA, a nonprofit organization that tracks trends in distance running.

---------------------

In a debate on the Web site slowtwitch.com, someone posting as Record10 Carbon wrote that more than half of the people at a marathon are just overweight and “trying to get a shirt and medal ... looking to one day tell a story about the saga and the suffering of their 11 minute pace ‘race.’ ”

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/23/sports/23marathon.html

[Gulftrout]

1. Get rid of the Shufflers

They don't belong on the road with the real runners. Shut the clock off at 5 hours.
That way only people that ran a majority of the race get an official finish.

[MattBaggins]

8. How about if you go Cheney yourself and enjoy a nice hot

cup of STFU afterward.

People who are at least trying to change life styles and be a bit more active are to be applauded and encouraged to continue. I could not care less if your elitist sensibilities are offended by the great unwashed masses giving a go at running a marathon. Give them their T-shirt and medal; it doesn't hurt you in the least.

[BrklynLiberal]

15. Gotta agree with you. Let the elites finish fast..and then the rest of the

"masses" can just enjoy the trip....and the satisfaction of having finished...no matter how long it takes.
There was a lady with MS who used to walk on crutches thru the NYC Marathon...and it took her almsot 24 hours to finish..BUT SHE FINISHED!! And there were people there to applaud her....and she did not get any money or a car for finishing.

And there is the glory!!!

[tonysam]

42. Who the fuck cares what the elites think?

Anybody who wants to participate in a marathon should be allowed to do so...marathons should NOT be competitive events anyway...the goal is to finish it, not to be firstest and fastest.

[Darth_Kitten]

65. So if it takes someone 5 days, that's an accomplishment?

I don't know about some people, but I think those who train hard and finish in a few hours deserve just a bit of praise. :sarcasm:

[demwing]

122. Is that praise predicated on demeaning the slow runners?

I sure hope not...

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SidDithers]

40. The training that these "whiny shufflers" go through...

to finish a 5 or 6 hour marathon is still incredible. Doing a 4 hour run, at 6:00 am on a Sunday morning, in a cold rain? I still have nothing but admiration for someone who can make it through the training cycle, injury free, and complete a 42.2 km course.

Sid

[cherokeeprogressive]

49. What rules would those be? The ones you're proposing to change, I mean... n/t

[HughBeaumont]

57. They can always get faster and in better shape.

You, however, are stuck with your douchiness the rest of your life.

[RetroLounge]

61. ...

:applause:

RL

[Vickers]

71. Hunnerd bucks sez this dude is out of shape.

:rofl:

[HuckleB]

2. What a bunch of whiners.

Who cares? Seriously. Get a life. In a nation with an obesity problem, it is good that many people have a goal of walking marathons. In fact, more marathons should become more walker friendly.

[Gulftrout]

26. Obese People getcha

self in shape, then participate. Change the rules for the shufflers, that makes the shufflers the whiners.

[HuckleB]

38. Got cliches?

Why should the rules suddenly be changed?

[fishwax]

56. actually, you're the one whining

the rules already accommodate the shufflers. :shrug:

[debbierlus]

78. Tell me about it. It is all about their ego and them wanting to preserve the 'prestige'

Screw them.

Anyone who wants to should be able to enter.

[Mind_your_head]

3. Is race run for health or prestige?

If it's for health, then the more the better....even if they are walkers.

If it's for prestige, then qualify for the Boston marathon. Someone I know just qualified for the first time after years and years of trying. He's 61 now! And that's a real "wow". I don't think he thinks any less of people who run other marathons on their way...it's "all good". (except for the pickled people~*holds nose*)

[HuckleB]

6. Exactly!

[sandnsea]

12. How many qualifying type marathons are there? n/t

[Mind_your_head]

13. *I* don't know myself.....but those that are knowledgeable enough to whine

like in the OP know what and how many qualifying marathons there are. Ask the OP. They would/SHOULD know! More information is always *good*.

[sandnsea]

4. Have qualifying marathons

Open runs can be scheduled a couple of hours after the official marathon starts.

[HuckleB]

5. Why?

The fast runners already start at the front. There's no need to make other people wait.

[sandnsea]

9. To separate it into two

I can see their point. Their whole life is training for marathons. It's like opening a horse race or car race to all comers. It would change the value of particular races.

[HuckleB]

37. That's ridiculous, IMO.

They are in the front. They're competing within age, sex and skill classes, as it is. Further, many such marathoners have not been training for life, while some of the slower walkers have been training for years, as well.

If you start the race later, the walkers will be ending at night. It's simply not feasible, on top of it.

[Gulftrout]

45. How bout a new competition?

The Walkathon !!

[sandnsea]

55. Apparently some marathons have qualifications

and they already stagger the start, with the trained athletes at the front. So my suggestion doesn't appear to be that ridiculous after all. All they really need to do is give the two different names.

[question everything]

81. This is true. The Boston and the New York marathons

have their criteria. You have to run, say, the Chicago or the Twin Cities marathon and to complete it at a certain speed to qualify for the big ones.

[petronius]

7. That's pretty whiny - how is one person's marathon devalued if another person

finishes in 3x the duration? Sounds like Ms. Wald et al. just want to be special (and if you have to insist on how special you are - you're not.)

Anyway, the first Marathon run wasn't a race, except against the clock and the runner's ability. Why should today's be different?

[Name removed]

24. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[thereismore]

10. Median time drops? I think you wanted to say Median time rises. nt

[Liberal_in_LA]

20. ooops. thanks. Too late to change

[SIMPLYB1980]

11. Pfft!

From a distance runner.

[Journeyman]

14. My criteria is to say I "competed" if I ran all the way, "participated" if I walked at all. . .

Can't see how my race enhances or diminishes any other runner. The way I see it, when you appreciate what the reality of the "loneliness of the long distance runner" implies, what other people do in your race is immaterial to what you accomplish.

I told my brother once about all the crazy people who passed me during one run: the 9 running "Elvi" all dressed in white, pushing a baby buggy with a boom box blaring the King's tunes; a group who ran together in a very long serape, the end runner whipped about like a skater in a "snake;" the others who dressed in all manner of weird costumes. He laughed, said it sounded like I was passed by more people than I outran. I smiled, said I easily outran all those who didn't participate.

Everyone who participates enhances the day. Only those who bitch about others diminish the event.

[SIMPLYB1980]

16. +100

:toast:

[MattBaggins]

18. Amen

When you have an event that results in the closing of streets and inconveniences others; then it is automatically a public event and the whiners should get over themselves and celebrate the surge in people interested in exercise.

[fishwax]

17. Most runners I know are happy to see other people running

And I fail to see how someone who finishes in three or four hours has their accomplishment lessened by another runner who straggles in at six or seven. Seems like a rather petty whine to me. Most races of any size have staggered starts, so it's not like the slower runners are likely to interfere with the faster folk.

[underpants]

69. Me too

run on brother

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

19. I never would have guessed they are jogging snobs

this is fucking ridiculous - people want to participate in your "sport" be grateful they aren't just on the sidelines complaining about your spandex ass holding up traffic.

[Gulftrout]

27. The fat shufflers

cause the streets to be closed the extra amount of time, not the runners.

[SIMPLYB1980]

36. Dude?!

[Le Taz Hot]

87. That fat shufflers?????

Holy shit! Enjoy your stay at DU while it lasts.

[Missy Vixen]

127. It's too bad they breathe the same oxygen, isn't it?

Jesus Christ. Am I at a progressive site, or did I end up at FR when I wasn't looking?

Let's see here: Don't even think about running a marathon unless you can finish in the "prescribed" amount of time. Don't show yourself in public if you are fat. Don't think people should treat you with the same respect and courtesy you treat them with; after all, you're FAT, and you "shuffle".

I can only wish that those here who torment the fat find out exactly what it's like someday.

[NashVegas]

47. There Are Some Amazing Outdoors/Sports Snobs

I got into it with a back-packer who insisted on referring to traditional outdoor camping as "car camping."

"I think it sounds kinda snobby."

"But I like it, every now and then you want something cushy."

"Like what wimps do, yeah."

"If I told you I was going back-packing, what would you think that was?"

"I'd think I'll see you back in a few days."

"Well you probably just grew up in a city or area where it wasn't popular."

"I grew up in the Adirondacks."

That was when she got pissed off and huffed away in her $300 rain jacket. To an extent, that's what it's about. Outfitters needed to sell all that shiny, lightweight gear, so they created a different class.

[SIMPLYB1980]

50. LOL!

:thumbsup:

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

62. my brothers girlfriend uses that phrase "car camping"

Her idea of camping is jumping off Amtrak in the middle of fucking nowhere and finding your way back to civilization.

[NashVegas]

75. Isn't It Odd?

That it's not enough to call what they're doing "backpacking." Annoying business.

[MrModerate]

21. "Hard core runners" who make such complaints should take the stick out of their butt.

That would increase their times substantially. Alternatively, they could go fuck themselves.

[Gulftrout]

28. Great argument

Are you in 5th grade Mr. Pottymouth?

[MrModerate]

77. Sometimes truly offensive suggestions -- such as "only serious people should participate . . .

in publically supported events" -- are owed similarly offensive responses. If one presents oneself as an asshole, scatalogical humor is generally the result.

And completely justified.

[Gulftrout]

89. Great explanation

of your pottymouth. I'm sure you did great on your hi-school debate team. How many marathons you ran? I'm guessing zero.

[Javaman]

109. oh my god..

you are pulling out the really tired and infantile argument of "how many marathons have you run?" tactic.

wow, just wow. Resorting to grade school playground attacks is very unappealing.

Honestly, get over yourself. It's really boorish.

And if you choose to attack me as well, I ask you to refer to my comment down thread. #108.

[Gulftrout]

119. Who died and made you the Governor of Running

Discussion doesn't have to involve trashy language.

[Javaman]

124. ahhh, still using that play ground mentality. LOL

You couldn't counter my stance, so you attack. How very diplomatic of you.

Trashy language? Um, what?

here's some advice, you don't want the "walkers", then start your own race.

It's really that simple.

It's just running. Get over yourself.

[REP]

22. Waaaah! Waaaaah!

Oh, not everyone is an 'elite' runner like you, waaah! Shut the fuck up and die of a heart attack, preferably during a marathon, you whiny shits.

[Gulftrout]

29. Change the rules for the

Fat Shuffly runners, sadly they're the runners putting themselves at risk. Thanks for the input and great logic Pottymouth!!

[LeftyMom]

23. Nearly every leisure activity has some friction between obsessives and hobbyists.

:shrug:

Usually the solution is to create separate events for the hardcore, serious whateverers and the people who enjoy whatevering on the weekend.

[Selatius]

30. If anything, I figured letting slow people run would boost fast peoples' egos into the stratosphere.

Instead of beating a relatively small number of difficult and fast people in a marathon, they're literally taking on thousands of slow people...and beating them to hell and back, sometimes several times before the slow runners ever finish.

I say that they should stop their bitching and enjoy the fact that they're slaughtering all comers.

[Gulftrout]

31. Good Argument !!

But what's worth more a difficult victory or running up the score on a hapless opponent. Kinda like in college football. You'd rather beat a top 25 team than run the score up on somebody like Rice or Vanderbilt.

[Obamanaut]

32. I'm puzzled as to how a slow runner affects the fast runner's time.

A marathon is pretty much an individual race against a clock or a personal best.

This is similar, imo, to the argument against same-sex marriages and the ruination of "traditional" marriage. Miz O and I have been married for nearly 42 years, and a loving couple of the same sex getting married will not change that. Nor will another couple getting a divorce after three years. Not one bit.

Everyone should be allowed to run their own race.

[JVS]

92. The only way I can imagine it making a difference is that a large number of slow moving people...

at the start of the race might kind of get in the way.

[eShirl]

33. let them brag about their own start-to-finish time, and stop crying about what others are doing

good grief

[MichellesBFF]

34. I'm training for the Philadelphia Marathon

And I know I'm going to be slow. This is the first time since I've started running (a little over 2 years ago) that I've been injury free long enough to train for the marathon. (I should probably put it off till next year, but pffft!)

Slow runners do not hurt faster runners, if you really care about slower runners how about finding one and coaching them to faster times? Not doing that? Then shut up, and run your own race!

Now I'm off to run a 10K in a downpour...

[underpants]

70. Good for you

how was the run?

I am taped up and doing 20 tomorrow

[SoCalDem]

35. Why not just offer the hardcore runners a special marathon

maybe a day later...or maybe they could all just STFU, and let everyone enjoy their own participation :)

[HuckleB]

39. Maybe they can have a few detours uphill.

That'll even things out.

[Gulftrout]

46. Or a special Marathon

For male runners with man-boobs so they would STFU.

[SIMPLYB1980]

51. Is this street theater or Glenn Beck?

:shrug:

I bet you never leave your moms basement.

[Gulftrout]

88. I've run 13 Marathons

To your 0?

[DaveinJapan]

95. Assuming you're still around, care to share your fastest/slowest times for us? nt

[Gulftrout]

116. Marathon Times

My best, 3:47:17, my slowest 4:59:12. The other finishes were in the 4 hr. to 4 1/2 hr. range. The marathon isn't for everybody. It's a brutal test of endurance. I do believe that 6, 7, 8 hour finishing times cheapen and dilute the marathon. You can see from my times I'm not an elite runner.
My best was 17 minutes too slow to qualify for Boston. Call it snobbery, call it whatever. I see a lot of mediocrity attacking excellence out here. You could call me mediocre and that I'm attacking the slow, back-of-the-pack runners. It was excellence that inspired me (Shorter, Prefontaine). The slow run/walkers got heart, but I'm not sure that turning a failing grade into a passing one in the toughest race of all is the way to pat them on the back.

[SIMPLYB1980]

97. Yeah right. What's your times, and which ones.

I doubt you have even ran a 10K much less a marathon.

[flvegan]

63. You still here, Chilly?

With all your talk about how horrible overweight people are?

Bet you're just the fucking Adonis IRL ain't you. Pencilneck.

[underpants]

67. They do

they call it Boston

Loooong story there-much discussion of that race in marathoning circles. NYC does have time criteria but they also have a lottery and you get in automatically if you aren't lucky the first 3 years. Oh and you can raise money- or like Will Ferrell just pay a ton and be given a bib number

[JVS]

94. Let them do 2 laps

[bikebloke]

41. Juggler

The Marine Marathon passes my flat. A couple years ago, I went outside to take a look as the end was passing. One bloke walking at a snail's pace and juggling. Crikey.

As the marathon is tomorrow again, I have to remember to put in ear plugs tonight. They always have a band playing down the street in the park at 7 am.

[AllentownJake]

43. People who aren't that athletic trying to keep themselves in some sort of shape

The horror.

[Gwendolyn]

44. I can understand how they feel, A lot of sweat and effort goes into becoming competitive.

An analogy would be established poets competing with amateur rhymers and everyone getting honorable mention at the end of the contest. The achievement is diluted.

The fairest thing to do would be to have time classes, one for the competitive group and another for the less serious. That way everyone receives proper acknowledgment of their effort and ability.

[uppityperson]

48. I'd rather people participated in athletic events, yes, slow finishers do finish & deserve the shirt

Serious runners can always have some thing that says "finished under X amt time". They will always have their times to flash.

Anyone who participates should get the shirt at the end, unless the sponsors put in a time clause.

[Liberal_in_LA]

60. Perhaps different medals depending on completing time? Gold, Silver, Bronze? n/t

[RamboLiberal]

52. IMHO the elites just need to get over themselves

Questions for those of you that know about marathons. Do the entry fees of all the entrants go towards some of the prize money/awards of those elites?

[NashVegas]

53. Sucks To Have Your Scene Crashed, But That's Business

There are an increasing number of outlets that offer marathon training and they've got to promote marathoning to promote themselves and make a living.

Some of them are set up as charities to promote various worthy causes. I don't see it reversing just yet.

[Taitertots]

54. How can they act like they are better than people when they realize regular people can do it too

It is all about them needing to puff themselves up. When regular people finish marathons they can't rub it in their faces as if they can't do it. Now all they are doing is just running a little faster than everyone else, no completing something they couldn't do.

If there was an escalator to the top of Everest then no one would want to climb it anymore.

[Gwendolyn]

58. When did people start sneeringly refer to runners as "elites" like they're the enemy?

It's hilarious on one hand that people can express so openly their bitterness over the achievements of others, but also really sad that anyone with the desire to excel in something like a sport is automatically deemed part of the overlord class, the enemy. :rofl:

While they're at it, I think all scholarships should be abolished. Those "elites" with their high IQs need to be pulled back down to earth. WTF do they think they are? And round up all the Olympic athletes too. Fracking elites!

[fishwax]

59. It's not necessarily a sneer, it's just a term that's used in running

to refer to those who are actually racing (in the sense that they have a chance to win) in the big marathon rather than simply running in them. It's not generally used as a sneer, just a description (elites often start the race before the rest of the field and may have more stringent regulations, etc.) that is handy since elite runners and club runners and couch potatoes are entered in the same event, a situation which doesn't happen in most any other sport.

The attitude on this thread is as a (misdirected, I think) response to those who are looking down on and/or criticizing those at the back of the pack--but as far as I can tell it's not actually the elites doing this, but rather more like the dedicated and relatively fast lay people looking down on the plodders.

[eridani]

84. Yes it does

Last time I checked, boxing, wrestling and weightlifting have weight divisions.

[fishwax]

85. Yes what does?

I agree that those sports have weight divisions, but I'm not sure what that's meant to point out in response to my post.

[eridani]

86. Simply that people who are biologically built to be the best at endurance sports--

--should just STFU about those who are not. Heavyweights who are biologically built to be the best at weightlifting or boxing don't exclude those who are not from participating in their sports.

[Gwendolyn]

101. Thanks. :-)

It's fairly clear that running marathons has become a much more mainstream, lucrative activity, and like many other sports before it, seems to be going through the usual organizational growing pains. Whether it's elites or middle speed people complaining, it doesn't necessarily speak to anyone's character to ask for or want to negotiate rule changes.

[Gulftrout]

90. Mediocrity

Always attacks excellence.

[UndertheOcean]

104. +1

[flvegan]

64. How are you supposed to know how well you're doing/improving w/out competing?

Or participating as part of a group? Moronic. And Record10 Carbon can cram it, stupid douchebag.

[underpants]

68. They can't good point

as I posted above I had a nightmare in May 2008 (turns out my leg was broken but that is another story) but I did finish. I have a medal. It took 6 hours but I did the 26.2 and then rehabbed/trained for a YEAR and did another one 3 minutes faster than my first. 3 MINUTES- I am improving

[underpants]

66. As a 3 time marathoner and doing my 20 tomorrow in prep for Richmond 11/14

I have to say that if you cover the distance you did a marathon. period.

Now that should have to be in a preset time (like 7 hours) but if it is not then more power to them.


It is a life changing experience IMHO

and if you are wonering this 230-ish pound multi marathoner with a stride that can accurately be described as "Big Foot chasing after a bus" has done it in
4:43
6:00+ a nightmare but I did finish
and 4:40 (hit "the wall" at 21 at the Shamrock Va.Beach in March of this year)-was well ahead of the 4:30 pace group when the gas ran out

I get the element that thinks there has to be a time limit but if you start asking the front crowd people like me might not get credit for what we achieve and how we sustain the industry (running in general as well as races)

I don't have a problem at all if they finish and get a medal.

[bermudat]

72. I completed the Lake Tahoe Walking Marathon in September

They had the walkers start 2hours before the runners, and when the runners started passing us

they were offering words of encouragement. I even passed a runner or two. This has been

news to me that runners resent the slower racers. They must really loathe the walkers.

If the cutoff is 8 hours, why would a runner who finishes in 2-3hours give a damn about me

finishing in 7hours?

[DaveinJapan]

93. Out of curiosity, what's considered a good time for finishing a walking marathon? nt

[bermudat]

120. A good time would be finishing less than 7 hours. A scorching time

would be between 5.5hr - 6.5hrs.

[aikoaiko]

73. This concern seems weird to me -- marathons are not team sports.

:shrug:

[Quantess]

74. I think running or jogging 26.2 miles in one stretch is something to be proud of,

even if he/she finishes last. I wonder why the fastest runners can't allow slower runners to share in some of the glory? You would think the slower people would make the "elite" runners feel even better about their abilities.

[fishwax]

76. I don't think it's the fastest runners that are complaining

Which makes the complaint all the more silly, if you ask me.

“I always ask those people, ‘What was your time?’ If it’s six hours or more, I say, ‘Oh great, that’s fine, but you didn’t really run it,’ ” said Given, who finished the Baltimore race in 4:05:52. “The mystique of the marathon still exists. It’s the mystique of the fast marathon.”

(that's great and all, and props for a great race, but it's about an hour and a half behind the winner, and just outside the top 1000 ... http://results.active.com/pages/searchform.jsp?posted_p=t&numPerPage=100&page=11&rsID=85549&eventClass=Marathon&queryType=division#VIEW)

[cemaphonic]

79. Yeah, I noticed that too.

I bet most of the top contenders are thrilled that their sport is so popular (and that their events are well subsidized as a result). I wouldn't be surprised if this complaint is sour grapes from the wannabe-hardcore, that are worried that they are getting lumped in with the people who just want to participate for whatever personal reasons rather than compete.

Also, there is a "marathon mystique?" News to me.

[yesphan]

107. Some perspective

I did the Lake Placid Ironman in 2004 @ the age of 47. It took me just over 13 hours to complete and my marathon time was @ 4:40, by a good margin, my worst marathon time ever. The winner of the event was finishing about the time I was starting the run.

At the awards ceremony the next day, the winner gave some love to all the rest of us slackers. He said
something to the effect that he has the good fortune of doing this for a living and thereby much is expected of him and he gets paid pretty well for his efforts and the rest of us just do this for a myriad of personal reasons. He also stated that it took him just over 8 hours and the pain he had to endure lasted many hours less than some that were out there 12,13,15+ hours.

Anyway, I thought the winner had a very nice take on what we less than elite participants have to go through to reach the finish line.

[Quantess]

82. Wow! Those are truly amazing times.

I go jogging 5+ miles regularly, but I think if I completed a marathon, it might take me about 8 hours (I don't know because I've never ran that far). But I would still be proud of myself. Anybody who would look down at me for that must be a deeply insecure person, I would think.

[question everything]

80. See how she runs

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0078221/

A wonderful made for TV movie with Joanne Woodward

his is the story of a 40-year-old divorced teacher whose life is changed by her decision to enter the Boston Marathon

[eridani]

83. Maybe wrestling and boxing and weightlifting should eliminate weight divisions

Then small skinny people could experience what heftier people experience doing endurance sports.

[Gwendolyn]

98. Bullshit analogy.

The reason there are weight classes for sports like boxing, martial arts etc... is because what is being judged is skill, not just brute strength. In order to feature an exciting competition, you match people up of similar size and weight. There is no "skill" involved in running.

And no, you won't find any novice off the street fighting in an organized boxing match. All the weight classes are usually represented by the best talent available.

[eridani]

123. I think that runners would beg to differ

Sure, it's not an activity that requires a lot of coordination, but it requires a great deal of endurance training. Why shouldn't marthons have size and weight categories?

[JVS]

91. If the fast people are so concerned about image, they should run it twice while waiting for the slow

I haven't seen smart people go into the library and start kicking out the people who can't read well.

[TexasObserver]

96. Awww, they hate that the unwashed and unathletic masses are finishing marathons.

I think it's hilarious. It reminds me of the way some objected when tennis players started wearing colors, instead of only white clothes. How dare they break from tradition and throw some color into the game?

[Gin]

100. my son ran his first marathon Sunday and FINISHED with a time of 5 hours

He trained for it...did his best...and deserved to be in it with the rest..I am very proud of him and his accomplishment...

[TexasObserver]

115. cool

It's an accomplishment.

[Blue_Tires]

99. i don't get it...

i thought there were staggered time starts for distance races (i.e., the elites get to be at the front of the pack)?? How do slower runners get in the way if the elites already start ahead of them??

and that guy bitching about the slower people cheapening what it means to run a marathon and who just want to 'finish' is a jagg-off... I would LOVE to see him/her say that to the face of the last-place finisher at the Le Mans 24 hours...

[JerseygirlCT]

102. That's odd...

my impression of serious runners was that:
1) they are concerned with their own skill and ability and are usually running against their own previous best, and
2) they are happy to see other people take up the sport, and usually quite encouraging.

I fail to see the harm to them or their accomplishment if others do not perform as well.

[Blue_Tires]

103. I'll also state the stupidly obvious:

If the uber-elites want their "own" marathon with everyone finishing under 3.5 hours, by all means let them go organize one...Who's stopping them?

[mrs_p]

105. hmm... 11 minute mile

times 26.2 miles sounds pretty good to me. this person is an asshole. is her money better than mine? no, i won't qualify for a boston, but i'm still considered a marathon runner. screw her and those of her ilk.

[RT Atlanta]

106. This is bullshit

and you and put me in the slow pace crowd. My pace is 4;30 to 5hr marathon, which is "slow" to the 'elites' noted in the article. I am not fat either.

If the 'elites' want to bitch and moan, they should take their running off-road and try trail running (which is what I do now for anything at a 1/2 Marathon and over). With trail runs, you have distances that go from 50k, 40mile, 100k and 100miles. Although "more and more" people are running trail runs each year too (which means a lot of "slower" first timers), that should in no way diminish the accomplishment - whether you're finishing 26.2 or 100miles.

[Javaman]

108. I've been running for roughly 34 years, run marathons by the dozen

Never did an ultra but hey, that's me. Have competed in my youth in international competitions against world class athletes, have run everything from a mile up to a marathon in competition and currently training for a half marathon in the masters division.

We all share the road. We all started some place one time, we all were shufflers at one point or another.

For the average person who never worked out or had ever run before, training then running in a marathon, then completing it, is an accomplishment.

Running snobbery is foolish. This is no better than the statement "some animals are more equal than others".

I mean, cripes, it's not like they are getting BMW's or huge cash awards like the winners. (I'll let that sit with you for a while)

I think the heart of a race is in the average runner. They do it for the pure love of the sport. The type of determination displayed by those runners who "walk", takes nothing away from their dream of finishing.

As I get on in years, I used to be a snob runner, being angry at those who "walk" and looking at them as "not real runners". That was so foolish of me, but then again, that was when I was in my teens and early 20's.

The heart of running is in the person, not the time one shoots for.

I have always run to compete, I can't get it out of my system, but that doesn't mean that I as I get older, I don't appreciate the other runners around me.

From the mom, who never worked out or run at all, to the middle aged guy who chugs along, to the little kid who runs and stops, runs and stops and to the 90 year old who finishes the race in 10 hours; my hat is off to all of you. You are the embodiment of what running is all about.

And honestly, at the end of the day, it's just a running race. Not brain surgery. You put on shoes and you run a distance, then you are done.

Get over yourselves.

And so, my snobbish runners, what running is all about? Or have you forgotten?

[lumberjack_jeff]

111. Well said.

It's guys like you who make running fun. :thumbsup:

[Javaman]

114. Thanks. :) nt

[Gulftrout]

125. Your Righteous Ramblings

Don't change a thing. If you can't finish a Marathon in 5 hours or less, you shouldn't be out there. The plodders can go find a walkathon. Quit clogging up Marathons. You got blinders on. Those 6, 7, 8 hour finishers are putting their health at risk. Those folks look horrible.

[Javaman]

126. Meh, you are blocked.

I saw your times above. Honestly, they aren't that great. Your snobbery is just so completely misplaced.

You ramble on like you are some Bill Rogers. You have run a gigantic 13 marathons but yet you haven't qualified for Boston? And you go on and on like this?

Man, you have one massive ego.

I have hats that have been in more marathons than you. LOL

Man, it's just running. Point A to point B. Next time you perform open heart surgery, get back to me, that kind of stuff is impressive. But, then again, you won't because you will be blocked. :)

It's. Just. Running.

[Peacetrain]

110. Oh horse hockey..my husband is a marathoner.. and the

better runners are placed in the front of the pack.. and the slower runners are in the back and do not impact on the more elite runners setting their times..

[Dreamer Tatum]

112. Extremely simple solution

Only give medals and t-shirts for people who finish with 4 hours.

[la_chupa]

113. Americans are fat, anyone who exercises should be encouraged

I'm slow by "elite" standards. I have never done a marathon because it would take me too long to do all the training runs. I do half marathons though. My personal best is 2 hours 25 minutes so assuming that I could pull off a marathon at the same pace I would be one of the 5 hour finishers - maybe.

Most of the races I've seen have cut off times at 3 hours for a half and 6 hours for a full. I thought that had more to do with having the roads shut down and having to man the water stations than anything.

I have no idea what point I was going to make.

OH yea fuck off, what harm does it do if you get the same medal and t-shirt as we slow folk? I would think that your smug self satisfaction at being better than we are would suffice.

and just for the record, there is a guy I work with who I promise is faster than **you** and he's nothing but encouraging to us slow people

[yawnmaster]

117. The marathon runners have a point. It is decreasing their status to have these

untrained masses in the sport.
As a matter of fact, I think that to increase their status immensely, they should destroy all participants who do not finish 1 hour after the first to cross the line.
Everyone could wear one of those exploding neck rings you see in so many movies. Once the finish line is crossed a one hour timer is started and if you don't cross the line before then. boom.
This would also have the advantage of having a major influence on the mean marathon time and really would make the trained runners more important.

[Liberal_in_LA]

121. that woud have a MAJOR influence on mean marathon time. lol

[NC_Nurse]

118. I can't imagine why anyone would be upset by that. How stupid and self-centered.

:nopity: