Have I got this wrong or is the Iraq war NOT the reason for the huge deficit in the U.S.A?

[glarius]

Something is driving me nuts about the way the elephant in the corner is being ignored!
I'm referring to the consequences of the Iraq war!
I keep hearing all the pundits and politicians decrying the fact that the deficit (or is it debt?...I'm never sure which) is growing by leaps and bounds under President Obama. Why will nobody talk about the fact that the illegal, unnecessary war launched by George Bush against Iraq, has cost billions of dollars?
It seems to me that without the cost of that hideous war, the U.S.A. would be much better off financially, and have a much easier time of riding out this recession.
President Obama, who was always against this war seems unable to say anything.
Why won't even the liberal pundits or politicians say anything against it? Is it as I suspect, that they are all afraid of being accused of not supporting the troops?
Perhaps if this fact was being pointed out to the American public, Obama's poll numbers would be higher!
Pardon my saying so, but it seems really ridiculous to me!
:shrug:

[seemunkee]

1. Military spending in general

[Mari333]

2. +1000000000000000000

[newspeak]

28. Marie333 is that a picture of you?

You could be my sister, if it is. You look like me or do I look like you?

[Mari333]

40. yes it is , with my grandson woohoo we look like twins then

[UndertheOcean]

3. A picture worth a thousand words

[G_j]

12. and.. where your income tax $$ goes

[mike_c]

17. that says it all....

Yeppers.

[timeforpeace]

37. Not until you throw in government entitlements, then you've said it all.

[Uncle Joe]

42. I believe the U.S. being the only industrialized nation; on planet Earth, without some form of

national health coverage from it's government for all it's citizens is a direct result from that kind of military spending as a cost of global empire.

Furthermore, this reliance on for profit "health" insurance corporations has in turn heavily damaged the economy as a leading cause of bankruptcy and foreclosure when medical crisis hits home.

The bankruptcies and foreclosures then have a further ripple effect damaging other people; that being neighborhood real estate values, local businesses and/or creditors.

[JonQ]

4. Yes and no

military expenditures in general are part of it, but so is over spending on every other thing.

We have a greater debt than can be explained by the military alone.

[The_Casual_Observer]

5. Let's put it this way, just prior to 9/11, there wasn't any money for ANYTHING

& right after they were financing two wars "off the books".to the tune of a 200 billion dollars a year. It might have been off the books but that money was either borrowed or printed, the result is the same.

[Zen Democrat]

11. Prior to 9/11 we still had the Clinton Surplus ---

But after unfunded wars, where billions disappeared without accounting, and after billions in tax cuts to the ruling class, and then there was the billions in giveaways to the insurance companies for Medicare Part D, also unfunded ..... they were getting the government ready to circle the drain.

Now we have this huge debt because Obama put the wars in the budget for the first time.

There never has been nor will there be a true accounting of GNP, so it's all just head games anyway. The economy is backed by the "full faith and credit of the United States government." There's never been anyone in the counting house counting all the money. And don't worry about the borrowing from the Chinese, because they would fall without us. And ... there's no telling how much money exists outside the system anyway. Who knows, really, how much gold and silver is out there. How much is it worth? Another relative question.

Bottom line: Feed the hungry, house the homeless, tend to the sick. If the rich man has to pay a few shekels more in tax, he should be grateful to live a generous life. The few wealthy friends I have feel that way, and they vote Democratic, by the way. The greedy be damned. They care not for the debt of the government and only for their exposure to higher personal taxation -- which they should feel an obligation to this country to pay, IMO.

[wildbilln864]

29. and don't forget that on September 10th, 2001...

Rumsfeld said that the pentagon couldn't account for over $2,000,000,000,000.00. Where does all the money go? Not to me that's for damn sure! :banghead:

[Overseas]

36. I remember that stunning disclosure.

(CBS) On Sept. 10, Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld declared war. Not on foreign terrorists, "the adversary's closer to home. It's the Pentagon bureaucracy," he said.

He said money wasted by the military poses a serious threat.

"In fact, it could be said it's a matter of life and death," he said.

Rumsfeld promised change but the next day – Sept. 11-- the world changed and in the rush to fund the war on terrorism, the war on waste seems to have been forgotten.

Just last week President Bush announced, "my 2003 budget calls for more than $48 billion in new defense spending."

More money for the Pentagon, CBS News Correspondent Vince Gonzales reports, while its own auditors admit the military cannot account for 25 percent of what it spends.

"According to some estimates we cannot track $2.3 trillion in transactions," Rumsfeld admitted.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/01/29/eveningnews/main325985.shtml

And here we are with another trillion gone into the Bush Cheney Gang's privatized war profiteering. We sort of know where that went-- to shoddy work by friends of the Bush Gang, among other destructive things.

That is one of the reasons it galls me when we hear even our Democratic senators talking about how our health security just has to be "revenue neutral."

[Dan]

35. Not true

The Clinton years - left us with a projected surplus. Bush came into office and essentially said that the money (that would have been used to pay off the debt) would better serve the nation by having a tax cut for everybody. Those that read and understood what he proposed understood that it was a huge tax break for the wealthy. It would have made Reagan - green with envy. The tax cut passed (with the support of elephants and donkeys). What this did was effectively a wealth transfer from the middle class & poor to the wealthy. Then of course 9/11, the drug bill, removing people that tried to do the right things within governmental departments, populating agencies with puppets who served the interest of the rich, nominating and putting people on the Supreme Court those justices that were corporate lackeys, the spying program which started before 9/11 - and what we have is a nation of corruption. With policies by the rich for the rich.

Sadly, we got the $300 tax cut - which we will continue to pay for; We got two wars in the middle east - which was supported by 70% of the population at the time - which we will continue to pay for;
a drug bill that was several hundred million more than was announced or sold to congress - which we continue to pay for; an aging population - which we will have to support; and even policies where Bush (wish I could remember exactly where I read this) provided tax cuts for businesses that outsourced their work to foreign countries.

We done got screwed by the GOP...but sadly, a number of workers who know better - drank the orange juice ( ahh, maybe Bush was Jim Jones come back to get the rest of the flock).

[The_Casual_Observer]

Bullshit, I'm not talking about Clinton. I'm talking about when bush got in

Everything changed, it was all about recession & tax cuts. I guess you weren't there.

[Dan]

45. a thought

try reading what I said.

[The_Casual_Observer]

46. I don't know where you were, but by Fall 2001 the Clinton surplus

was forgotten & it was doom & gloom & no money for infrastructure, schools or anything else. Base closures
were in full swing with Rumsfeld presiding.

[Dan]

47. probably,

but this because the tax cut had passed and surplus had been reallocated to provide for the tax cut.

But it is okay with me - for you to believe what you will, and I too shall believe as I do.

[The_Casual_Observer]

44. Bullshit, I'm not talking about Clinton. I'm talking about when bush got in

Everything changed, it was all about recession & tax cuts. I guess you weren't there.

[babylonsister]

6. The media is lying-this doesn't seem to be...

and the things we could do without so much $ being spent on defense! But yes, idiot son aided the deficit greatly.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=8705497&mesg_id=8705497

[rucky]

7. They did some accounting tricks so most of the war funds aren't in the budget.

At least that's the scam they were running back in '03-'0?.

Damn, I can't believe it's been that long.

[noamnety]

8. He wasn't "always against it."

He said he was against it, while continuing to vote for it.

(Sort of like telling people how much you oppose the use of high fructose corn syrup while swigging a coke.)

[Warpy]

9. We could have handled it without massive deficits

What caused the national debt to skyrocket during the last 8 years were the reckless tax cuts that went disproportionately to the richest. It was a repeat of the Reagan years but without the return to a semblance of fiscal sanity by hiking OASDI taxes and robbing more of them from the poor.

You'll start seeing an automatic reduction in the yearly deficit in 2011 when those tax cuts expire, but more needs to be done and the system has to be made more progressive, not less. A confiscatory tax rate on extremely high income should not be out of the question until fiscal sanity is restored in this country.

[newspeak]

30. remember the group, something like "millionaires for taxes"?

Remember the group, mostly actors, who were against the tax decrease for the rich by *? They were on TV once, and the rep for the group stated they wanted to pay their fair share and that *'s tax cut was obscene.

[TexasObserver]

10. The debt is growing, due to the annual budget deficits.

The national debt is about $11-12 trillion, which is an accumulation of the annual deficits, 85% of which were incurred by Reagan, Bush I, or Bush II. Annual deficits ran about $300-500 billion under Bush II (I believe), and will begin higher under Obama.

The last two presidents to balance an annual budget and therefore have no deficit for a budget year are Clinton and Carter. Reagan, Bush I and Bush II never once had a balanced budget in 20 annual budgets.

[Davis_X_Machina]

13. Deficit increases are due 50-50 to Bush-era tax cuts, and wars...

...on terra, Iraq, etc... with a push from the Medicare prescription benefit, if memory serves.

The really interesting thing is that you could throttle back the spending on the military adventures, and you could ride out the storm, but the tax code changes cannot even be mentioned.

Because at the end of the day that's what's important.

[icnorth]

14. Deregulation. n/t

[glarius]

16. Of course...deregulation...and wasn't that started by Saint Ronnie?

Another unmentionable....as far as his faults are concerned anyway!

[AndyA]

15. When you consider that we're paying $400/gallon for gas in Afghanistan, it's obviously

a big part of it. Add in the millions that have just gone missing, and the wars are a big chunk of our deficit.

Of course, Bush used some shall we say "creative accounting" to keep the war costs off the books. Like it didn't really exist. That has now been put on the books, and it did make a big impact when that happened.

We'd be a lot better off fiscally if we hadn't been fighting two wars for the past 7+ years.

[Festivito]

18. Our war in Iraq is not the reason we have big deficits.

It adds to it, but the real reason is that we put Republicans into office who increased our borrowing and then started a war to increase it further.

[glitch]

19. Yup, cut the funding, blow all the cash, sell off any assets, borrow to the hilt and soon

you've shrunk government to a size where you can drown it in a bathtub.

And live very high on all the loot you've siphoned to your family and friends.
And then tear up and call people sick puppies if they get close to noticing, or God Forbid, Imply Criticism.

[newspeak]

25. It's too bad that some of the totally ignorant

can't understand that drowning it in a bathtub means drowning YOU! Because if unregulated behemoth, greedy corporations rule the land, then the voice of the people are mute. And, those unconscionable corporations don't care about you or your community. So, with no job or living on peanuts, who are you going to turn to help your family not starve? Are you going to turn to those same corporations, "may I have some more, please?" or are you going to turn to your government-a government that you support with your tax dollars? But, you've drowned it, so now you're SOL and the giant corporate wurlitzer machine rules the land.

Economic recovery should be measured by how well MAIN STREET is doing, not WALL STREET.

[Altoid_Cyclist]

20. OK, I know that everyone has seen this already, but it is a handy link.

I keep it handy just in case someone I know tries to blame everything on Obama and the Democrats. It's a shame that some people can still think of Bushco Inc. as a great president. Actually, shame isn't strong enough for the things that they did, but I don't want to offend anybody with the words that I'd like to use.

http://www.costofwar.com/

[Overseas]

33. I hadn't seen that yet-- cost of the US wars since 2001, in motion.

And still we are told, time and again, that a basic human right like health security must be "revenue netural" !

[Altoid_Cyclist]

49. Is this a great country or what?

I think that I say this at least once every day, but our national priorities are so perverted that it is easy to understand why other countries either laugh at us or despise us.

[KansDem]

21. You do not have it wrong...they do...

I'm constantly amazed how GOPers will blame the Dems about the debt when St. Ronnie and the two Bushes increased that debt by trillions. And how Bush the Unelected added $3 trillion to the debt with is war based on lies.

Yet, talk to, or trying talking to, any neo-con and that fact never comes up in the discussion...

[CJCRANE]

22. Obama has mentioned this

in some of his speeches as well as the Bush tax cuts.

[glarius]

23. But don't you think all Dems as well as Obama should be constantly

pointing this out? It seems to me that that's how the Republicans get their messages accepted by the public.

[CJCRANE]

24. True, Bush's war, Bush's tax cuts and Bush's bailout

caused the mess and now the Republicans refuse to help clean it up. So maybe they do need to have their noses rubbed in it.

[Overseas]

34. I do think that would help. But I guess they see war as more of a basic human right

than health security is.

Somehow, those wars don't have to be "revenue neutral," although part of the Republican Bush Gang's selling of the Iraq war was that the oil revenue would pay for it.

[invictus]

26. Many of these so called "liberals" voted for the Iraq War and now want war with Iran.

[asdjrocky]

27. Why do you hate America?

We only spend money freely to kill people. Preferably people who are, you know, different from, you know, us.

Now when it comes to spending money to save people, oh let's say the 45,000 that will die in the next year because they have no health insurance, that's a whole different story.

[Statistical]

31. Iraq is part of the problem but it is only a symptom.

The reality is we are ADDICTED to spending money we don't have.

$11 TRILLION. Each Congress critter spends a little here, a little there. Pork politics, subsidies, bailouts, weapon programs, initiatives, expansion of this, expansion of that.

All the while pretending it is money we have. We don't.

Even without Iraq & Afghanistan we would be deeply in debt. Not $11T in debt but still trillions more in debt than any other nation on the planet.

One day eventually (before or after we default on debt obligations) we will accept the stunningly simply relatively. YOU CANT SPEND MONEY YOU DONT HAVE

Now there is nothing wrong with debt if you responsibly. People use debt to buy a home. They use debt to finance and education or buy a reliable vehicle.

However debt spending every single year for decades is a problem.

[Dan]

32. It is definitely a factor, but the biggest reason

was mr. bush's tax cut to the wealthy.... but then, we did get $300, and the opportunity to pay for it the rest of our lives.

[Johonny]

38. spending yes/ but lack of revenue is also a problem

Bush increased spending at the same time cut taxes. He then kept them low even after the country came out of recession. Even at a time of war he refused to ask Americans and corporations to sacrifice for the war. It seems totally unpatriotic to tell the country it must spend but at the same time to tell the most fortunate individuals they do not have to contribute. Needless to say it's a horrible way to run the countries finances.

[madmom]

39. That is what I keep saying every time some-one says Obama's deficit...when

it was b*sh's deficit it did NOT include the cost of this ill begotten war of his.

[Vinca]

41. The wars and the Bush tax cuts for the megawealthy are why

we have a deficit. Republicans love the Reagan notion that wealth trickles down, but it's not money swirling around my feet, that's for sure. I love the way they totally fuck up the country and then a Democrat cleans up the mess and the cycle starts all over again.

[johnaries]

43. BushCo changed the rules so that the cost of the war wouldn't

be included in the reported deficit. If I'm not mistaken, Obama had it put back in - but I could be wrong about that.

But let's not foget that the huge deficit was part of the plan to "shrink the government until it could be drowned in a bathtub". Under St. Ronnie, the deficit climbed to unsustainable levels. As a result, Congress had to cut spending. A lot of progressive programs suffered as a result. Thinking that was Ronnie's intent and that he was a genius instead of a doddering old fool, the BushCo Admin attempted to do the same thing. They mainly did it by approving every piece of Repub Pork that was offered, thinking it would also help keep them in power by the grateful recipients.

[Odin2005]

48. The huge deficit is because the rich don't pay enough taxes and because...

the Pentagon budget is stuffed with useless pork projects that just enrich defense contractors and nothing to improve military effectiveness.