Is North Carolina the first state to institutionally fuck fat people?

[Stinky The Clown]

North Carolina has mandated that fat state workers either lose weight or pay a penalty for their health care.

Ditto for smokers.

Are they first state to do this to fat people?




I never much thought about this as an issue, but now that it has become law, I think it is awful. What's next? People with acne?

[madmom]

1. How about stupid people?

[sofa king]

2. They already donate to the GOP.

[japple]

3. I don't know about state mandates, but my employer started this

over a year ago with smokers, and I guess that's probably not surprising since I work for a (adventist) hospital. There is a payroll deduciton of $10.00 per paycheck that goes to reimburse healthcare costs. They also have started

But your question "what's next" is valid. What lifestyle choices do you have that affect your health? Are you a smoker? Are you overweight? Do you exercise regularly? Do you have allergies yet insist on keeping inside pets? Do you have allergies but refuse to clean your house thoroughly on a regular basis and use mattress covers, special HVAC filters, HEPA vacuum cleansers? Do you drive too fast? Do you drive while texting or phoning? Do you drink excessively?

What's next is a good question.

[Kalyke]

15. Gee - the only way I could get rid of my allergies is to move to

the Sahara.

I have mold allergies.

:)

[uppityperson]

4. More info please. Thank you. I want to read before getting outraged.

I'm odd that way but would appreciate more info since this sounds really weird

[Stinky The Clown]

8. Follow the link in reply number 6.

No need to be snarky when you ask, though.

[uppityperson]

12. Thank you. Snark is just in general today, not aimed at you, my apologies

I didn't mean it aimed at you, just reading DU and feeling like it was needed in general. Thanks for the link.

That is wild but I think it has already been done for yrs, paying more for insurance depending on varied factors, but not as a whole "state employees" thing. 20 yrs ago I did "pre-insurance physicals" for insurance companies, drew blood, got urine specs, interviewed people. It was rather amusing when a friend would come up on the list, or when someone was obviously high answering "no" to any drug use. I got heights, weights, pre-existing conditions (oops, mean anything that was ever wrong with someone in the past), etc.

I prefer workplaces to give rewards for healthy behavior, as it does help, but am torn about the whole thing. I worked in 1 nursing home once that gave reward if you never ever ever took a sick day, so people came to work sick, infected other staff and residents.

As far as state employees, I also worked in Juneau, AK, fed building doing PE's and blood lab tests on all fed employees that wanted it, for free. PEs were every 4 yrs, blood lab work annually (got really good at drawing blood). They had an educational health care program for people who wanted it, don't remember any negatives but then I was only involved with the drawing blood, doing pes as a nurse.

[napi21]

5. There's apparently something like that in the Senate HC bill too.

I don't recall who was talking about it this AM, but I have MSNBC on in the background and this person mentioned ins for smokers would cost $40/mo more than non-smokers & something about body weight index and a penalty if you were over the max.

All I can say is that I have NO SYMPATHY for the fat people. We smokers have been getting this treatment for years 7 you didn't care then!

[Stinky The Clown]

7. That snippet you cite was about the NC law, not national health care.

[csziggy]

6. No, there are other states that have done this - Alabama started in January 2009

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/health_science/story/129651.html

[lib_wit_it]

9. Alabama and North Carolina? Can you imagine the militia threats we'd hear if Obama proposed anything

even close to this?!

If insurance companies are going to effectively ration care for any reason, this is as good of one as most.

Greedy bastards.

[madrchsod]

10. the last insurance company i had similiar conditions

it was`t mandated and they reduced cost by 10% if one enrolled in weight loss and non smoking programs.several weight loss and fitness centers are offering discounts to employees of many business in my area.



paying a penalty is just plain wrong

[supernova]

11. Seems to be a lot of leeway

in that bill.

From that N&O article:

North Carolina will allow state workers with a BMI of up to 40 to keep the discount, although some experts consider anyone with a BMI of 30 to be obese.

Do I agree with these "sin" premiums? I don't know. I would feel better about it if there were equal incentives on the other end, like, say, reimbursement for a gym membership.

If you're going to have sticks, you should have the carrots too.

[Barack_America]

13. A BMI of >40 is considered "Extreme Obesity"

You might consider editing your OP to reflect that.



http://win.niddk.nih.gov/publications/understanding.htm

[Stinky The Clown]

14. Why would I edit my OP?

Cuz there's leeway in the definition of fat?

It is what it is.

[Barack_America]

16. You could rephrase it as other than a broadbrush attack on all fat people.

Which it is not.

But if you're going for shock value rather than accuracy, keep it as is.

[Stinky The Clown]

20. "Attack"???????

This was in support and expressed displeasure at the law.


Where the fuck do you see an attack? That is not a rhetorical question? And be specific in your answer, since you're the accuser.

[Barack_America]

25. The law is not the broadbrush attack on fat people you claim it is.

It specifically targets a small percentage of fat people.

Specific enough?

I'm not sure that I agree with the law either, but I do think it is important to be honest about the law in critiquing it.

[MidwestRick]

22. BMI is a crock

That chart has me as obese (5'11" and 225 lbs). The problem is, I am an avid gym goer, so my body fat percentage is near 12% for a 40 year old male that is looked at as exceptional...not obese.

[Barack_America]

23. I think that criticism holds for the "overweight" and "obese" categories.

But "extremely obese"?

I doubt anyone could put on enough muscle mass to qualify for that category.

[MidwestRick]

28. Not many...

...and not without the aid of some sort of steroid. The biggest I ever got was 255 (a couple of years ago) and it took damn near 6,500 calories a day for me to maintain that weight without adding fat.

[Warpy]

17. It's incredibly unfair

There is an obvious cure for most smokers, go through withdrawal. Unfortunately, a few of them find it impossible to quit. I have watched them struggle with it for years and years, quitting for a few months here and there but finding it impossible to remain an nonsmoker. All it takes is a whiff of their old brand on the street, and they're lighting up again.

These are not weak people. Anyone who can manage to quit for several months at a time is strong as hell.

The problem with obesity is that there is no cure at all. Over 90%, and some studies say 95%, of people who diet down to their ideal weight gain it all back and more within the following 5 years. That includes all methods including surgical methods. Since the relapse rate is so high, there is obviously something at work besides lack of will power and weak morals. Remember, these are the people who were strong enough to starve themselves thin. They're not weak people, either.

Shame on the moralists in NC, which has always had a great abundance of them. They're going to get the state government they deserve because of their stupid, inhumane and short sighted rule.

[bertman]

18. Yeah, next thing you know they'll be mandating that state workers have to wear seat belts

and can't drive while impaired from drinking alcohol--whether they're at work or not.

Acne?? come on. Acne is usually due to hormonal issues. Obesity, for the most part is due to personal choices. And cigarette smoking is a habit that can be overcome if the smoker wants to stop and chooses to use one of many types of therapy.

[Stinky The Clown]

21. Have you ever smoked? Are you fat?

Where's your science?

[OHdem10]

19. Too much government intervention for my taste and I am as Liberal

as they come.

Will be interesting to see how this plays out.

[Johonny]

24. can't decide

If there is actual information that the actual healthcare costs increase for increased BMI than I guess it's ok. But the smoking data is very convincing on this, so I'm not sure at all about BMI data. Without such cost analysis it's impossible to know if this is fair or not.

[Stinky The Clown]

27. What if the following two statements were **both** true?

Fat is unhealthy

Fat is incurable






What now? Apply the same standard to those with cardiac issues? Stage 4 cancer sufferers?

[Johonny]

29. well

if it's unhealthy and incurable but doesn't over the lifetime of the patient lead to overall health cost increases for society and it's unhealthy and incurable but does over the lifetime of the patient lead to overall health cost increases for society there is difference in how you might place premiums. Either a could be true or false, b could be true or false and c could be true or false. I'm pretty sure about a and b but have no clue on c.

chronic cardiac issues aren't a very large percentage of society and thus not a good base for comparison, stage 4 cancer patients are basically at end of life and also pointless for comparison.

[SIMPLYB1980]

26. This is not aimed at fat people and as a occasional smoker

I don't have much of a problem with it. We are also not the first.

http://www2.counton2.com/cbd/news/state_regional/state_regional_govtpolitics/article/obese_state_workers_in_north_carolina_to_pay_more_for_health_insurance/72700/

"North Carolina is set to become the second state in the country to raise insurance costs for obese state employees; and smokers in both Carolinas will pay higher costs in the coming years.

Smoker Freddy Hall lives in Morganton, North Carolina, and he believes he should pay for it. “In all eventuality, a man who does things to harm himself is going to be discriminated against eventually when it comes to health care,“ but he hates to see state workers be penalized, saying they have already been hit hard by budget cuts. Smokers will pay more starting in July 2010.
The extremely obese will pay more in July 2011.

Here are the details, non-smokers or workers with a body mass index (BMI) of less than 40, can take advantage of the 80/20 Standard Plan, verses smokers, or those with a BMI over 40, who will pay thirty percent out of pocket expenses."

[Javaman]

30. And here I thought this was a fetish thread. nt

[NMDemDist2]

31. I have said for years when they came for the smokers, the fat people are next

now if our 'food' corps would outlaw the HFCS crap, we might stand a chance