75 Percent of Oklahoma High School Students Can't Name the First President of the U.S.

[sinkingfeeling]

This is a story I missed when it came out.

http://www.news9.com/global/story.asp?s=11141949

OKLAHOMA CITY -- Only one in four Oklahoma public high school students can name the first President of the United States, according to a survey released today.

The survey was commissioned by the Oklahoma Council of Public Affairs in observance of Constitution Day on Thursday.

"They're questions taken from the actual exam that you have to take to become a U.S. citizen," Dutcher said.

About 92 percent of the people who take the citizenship test pass on their first try, according to immigration service data. However, Oklahoma students did not fare as well. Only about 3 percent of the students surveyed would have passed the citizenship test.



All 10 questions they were asked and how the students did on them are at the link.

[Ian David]

1. Oklahoma: The only state in the country with no "Blue" counties. n/t

[gkhouston]

4. 37% of Oklahoma students can't name the color "blue". n/t

[lillypaddle]

9. I have to stand up for Oklahoma, at least OKC

At least for Okla. City. I lived there from 1960 until 1999. I attended Harding High School, which at the time was both a junior/senior high school - it was considered a college prep school. With just a high school diploma from Harding, I was able to work my way up to eventually be the director of a women's health care, non-profit organization. It was only AFTER I became the director, that I returned to school at Okla. City University to get my bachelors in business administration at age 46.

I live in Atlanta now. Oklahoma & OKC have lots of flaws, and there is no doubt that this is a red state, and a conservative area. However, in OKC (Okla. City) there was (still is) the most AMAZING group of local artists. When I moved to Atlanta, I was expecting so much -- this great big metropolitan city with tons of arts -- and boy, was I disappointed. In OKC I saw plays by local playwrights, original poetry readings, local musicians, and lots of original art done by terrific artists. The "Arts Festival" each spring, as well as the "Paseo Arts Festival" make the Atlanta Dogwood arts festival look pitiful.

There are tons of things wrong there, but please know that many of the people there are mighty damn fine libs, and extraordinarily talented individuals. And besides, it is the home of Will Rogers. And Wiley Post. (who can miss the irony of the two major airports being named after two people who died in plane crashes????) You can't get any better than that. Well, okay, you can. But don't write Oklahoma off completely. Please.

[Mabus]

13. I went to Taft

but met a lot of Harding folks at Northwest Classen. Having grown up in OKC, I can vouch for what you say. Oklahoma isn't all bad and putting it down makes it harder on the people who are working to make a difference.

[lillypaddle]

26. cool!

Went to lots of football games at Taft. Didn't it become an "alternative" school at some point?
Hey, fellow (sister) Okie! Y'all rock!

[Mabus]

32. Not to my knowledge

But I attended school there back in the 70's when they changed the structure of the schools. Grade school was kindergarten through fourth grade then kids went to fifth grade centers and then onto middle school for sixth through eighth grades. I went directly from grade school's fifth grade to middle school. I don't know how the school system is structured right now. I do know that a few years ago my nephews were at Belle Isle which was a middle school they had to have good grades and recommendations to get into. But I don't know if they still have fifth grade centers.

Hey fellow Okie. :hi: Yeah, a lot of people passed through Taft Stadium mostly because NWC shared it with John Marshall. I don't know if they still do or not. But I remember being pretty impressed with my fellow high schoolers from Harding but Taft was a pretty good school too.

And, fwiw, both my parents were Democratic precinct committee people. A lot of good Democrats came through our house from Sen. (and former DNC Chair) Fred Harris to Rep. Carl Albert.

[lillypaddle]

36. Wow

It's nice to hear that from you. I was one of the Jimmy Carter folks, and my precinct captain,and active in all the local politics. And for what it's worth, I was involved when NOW came to Oklahoma (City) and it was all "up against the wall mutherfucker!" I saved copies of my letters to the editor to the Daily Oklahoman. It's fun to look back at how passionate we were, and really how naive. George McGovern was the very first political candidate I contributed to, and voted for. I clearly remember writing a check to him for $5.00 (which was alot for me at the time), and writing in the "memo" of my check, "for peace." Ah. We are STILL struggling for peace.

[Mabus]

37. My parents wouldn't subscribe to the Daily Oklahoman

because they didn't like its politics. I remember we used to get a daily paper that was always a lot thinner than the DO but was more Democratic friendly. I can't remember the name of it but they went out of business in the 80's (I think). Yeah, Oklahoma used to be a lot more Dem-friendly than it has been recently.

I wonder if you ever ran into my mom. She was pretty active in Oklahoma politics. My dad gave up after RFK died but mom never did. I'm more like my mom. I'm always hoping and working for things to get better. And, fwiw, my dad, who still lives in OKC, registered as Dem to vote for Kerry and oust Bush in 2004. He had not voted since 1968 and let his registration lapse. He voted for Obama in 2008. My younger sisters also voted for the first time in 2004 and then again in 2008. And my only Republican brother, who lives in Oklahoma and voted for Bush in 2000, changed his registration in 2003 and started working for and voting for Dems.

[lillypaddle]

43. Frosty Troy?

Damn, I can't believe I even remember his name. But I can't remember his "paper." He was (is) wonderful, and I don't even know if he is still around or even alive. The "Oklahoma Gazette" was a weekly liberal newspaper at the time I was there.

Who is your Mom? If you aren't comfortable giving me her name here, maybe you can send it to me via DU mail. That would be too cool, if I knew of her, or your dad.

I left OKC in Jan. 1999. I'm kinda stuck here in Cobb County Georgia, where evolution is just a theory. :)

[Okie4Obama]

47. I still get the Oklahoma Observer edited by Frosty Troy.

[lillypaddle]

52. Glad to hear

Frosty is still around to stir things up.

[Mabus]

51. Took some looking but it was the Oklahoma Journal and Frosty was there at the beginning

And I found an article on the internet that tells its story at http://www.dustbury.com/archives/003871.html I've excerpted a portion of it

In 1958, Atkinson decided to run for governor on the Democratic ticket. Gaylord, incensed, refused to accept any advertising from the Atkinson campaign. With the state's largest paper officially ignoring his candidacy, Atkinson bought lots of TV time, but viewers found him less appealing than the telegenic J. Howard Edmondson, who swept to victory.

Atkinson was not in a forgiving mood five years later when he decided, once and for all, to get his revenge on Gaylord. The prevailing belief at the time was that the Oklahoman and Times were aimed at the plutocrats on the northwest side of town, and Atkinson's power bases, the areas he had developed, were to the south and east. He had some background in journalism — he'd taught it, briefly, at Oklahoma City University — and he figured that ought to be enough to qualify him as a publisher.

In 1964, the first issue of The Oklahoma Journal rolled off Atkinson's shiny new offset press at SE 15th and Key in Midwest City, bearing the slogan "The Paper That Tells Both Sides." (Note to Fox News Channel: "Fair & Balanced" is nothing new.) The editor was Forrest J. "Frosty" Troy, lured away from The Tulsa Tribune's Capitol bureau with the promise of at least equal bucks and a substantial stock position. Troy was enthusiastic at first, but a chill set in when Atkinson suggested that local stories be vetted by a county commissioner (who happened to be his partner in various local businesses), and that stock position eventually proved to come with a stiff price tag. Troy departed, to be replaced by John Clabes.

You probably didn't know dad, although....

I left OKC in 1979 (after high school) and really never went back except to see the family. Basically we were Kansas Jayhawks in Oklahoma and I went back to the motherland (Lawrence, KS) and never saw a reason to go back.

[Homer Wells]

2. "Is our children learning?"

I guess not!!

:mad: :eyes:

[Fire1]

22. "Our childrens do learn." n/t

[Homer Wells]

53. Indeed they does!!!!

:hug:

[Drunken Irishman]

3. Oklahoma was the most Republican state in 2008...

Coincidence?

[lillypaddle]

28. Yep, it's too bad

Oklahoma has much to offer. Can you say, "Biting the Apple" - the annual erotic art show?
http://www.okctickets.com/e/2161/bitingtheappleeroticartshow2009/
There's more there than meets the eye.

[BolivarianHero]

5. Of course not...

They're too busy hiding from Tom Coburn's lesbian witches of SE Oklahoma to have time to learn anything,

[datasuspect]

6. they don't smoke marijuana in muskogee

they smoke meth.

[KansDem]

8. Isn't white lightin' still the biggest thrill of all?

And Old Glory still flies at the courthouse?

And it's still a place where "L 7"s can have a ball?

[ashling]

10. I am no Okie, but to be fair, I want to point something out

Interesting picture you have there on your website. You might like to know that 100 years ago Oklahoma had more socialists that any other part of the country.

Just sayin'

:shrug:

[datasuspect]

14. i got some good root beer flavored licorice at the pilot truck stop in muskogee

[ashling]

19. ????

[struggle4progress]

35. I bet they don't know why the town's named for a Creek tribe from Alabama and Georgia, either

[KansDem]

7. I like this comment from the site...

Let's make a minimum score on the test, say 8 out of 10, a requirement for running for public office.

What about to vote? That might change politics around here. You actually have to know something about the country in order to participate in running it?

[Ezlivin]

11. 90 Percent of Oklahoma parents WON'T Name the Current President

Not until they see a valid birth certificate with his photo on it.

[Posteritatis]

12. Strategic Vision's sketchy as a polling agency, but if these are even close to the real numbers.. nt

[kestrel91316]

15. Yeah, but I bet they can quote the bible chapter and verse 'til the cows come home.

[Swamp Rat]

17. I bet they can't.

bet u they cant evn spl anymo or rite hole sentnsiz

[kestrel91316]

21. Hey, Swampie!!!! Long time no see!!!

[seabeyond]

41. bet they cant. i kick their ass in bible quotin, and then they are left floundering. nt

[Swamp Rat]

16. Sheesh!!! I learned that in kindergarten, in a public school in New Orleans!

:eyes:

I bet military recruiters are very busy in Oklahoma high schools.

[The Straight Story]

18. No wonder so many want to Home School their kids

:)

[Rebubula]

20. Well...

....how many people here know that?

The answer is NOT George Washington.



John Hanson is the correct answer.
http://www.marshallhall.org/hanson.html

[knitter4democracy]

24. I was wondering which first president they were referring to.

Good point.

[Caliman73]

29. Yes, you are correct, but historically the presidents under the Articles of Confederation

are not considered because their powers lay in the service of Congress not as the chief executive officer of the nation as in the President of the United States under the current constitution. I do think it is a shame that the Articles, the Congress during and shortly after the War, and the conflict between the Federalists and anti-Federalists are not discussed more in history and government classes. It gives a richer picture of the struggles that continue between the Central or Federal government and State governments. But Hanson is a Jeopardy answer.

The point is that many people lack the interest to learn or environmental ability to learn and retain even basic information regarding the history of the nation. If you are poor and your family is subsisting in crime infested housing with little hope of finding a job, you aren't going to care who that hell the 1st, 16th, or even who the current President is.

[Z_I_Peevey]

23. The Oklahoma Council for Public Affairs

is a right-wing front group. They commissioned the survey in question. And their slick promotional magazine touts the survey results as a means of discrediting public schools in general and the state teacher's association ("Oklahoma's most powerful labor union") in particular.

We have our share our undereducated people, but this survey is bogus.

[harun]

25. I think you are right.

[Mabus]

33. Thank you for putting it into context

:thumbsup:

[w4rma]

49. Seems to me that it discredits conservative governing. (nt)

[cherokeeprogressive]

27. Wondering what the percentage is for the country as a whole... n/t

[armyowalgreens]

30. Washington was not the first president of the United States.

[Gormy Cuss]

31. Those are hard questions!

Not really. My economically-challenged public school apparently taught this subject better than it's being taught today.

The article mentions that AZ students didn't fare much better so it's not only an OK problem.

[BR_Parkway]

34. 538 is calling out the polling company as liars - using this to privatize

schools. Apparently similar has happened in AZ with the same company hired by a right wing think tank - take a look at his numbers, Nate's pretty damn accurate when it comes to crunching them - http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2009/09/are-oklahoma-students-really-this-dumb.html

[Okie4Obama]

39. Exactly. This story is bullshit.

Let's perpetuate the stereotype from the 1930s of the dumb, dirty Okie, shall we?

I graduated from Oklahoma public schools, I know who George Washington is. My six-year-old, publicly educated daughter knows who George Washington is, she's not going to forget by the time she's a teen. I am glad Nate Silver is calling them out on this.

[Kievan Rus]

38. Most young people know more about Paris Hilton than the Constitution

This is no surprise. We are a celebrity-crap culture.

Wow, 39% can't even name the Atlantic Ocean. Why do I get the feeling that at least 70% could probably name every album Britney Spears ever produced?

This isn't a Republican or Democrat issue. It's not a red state or blue state issue. It has nothing to do with fundies. It's largely a media issue. As somebody whose last day in high school was only five years ago, let me tell you that for a lot of them (especially the monkey-see-monkey-do "party crowd"), they are ignorant of even basic facts that every third grader should know...and proud of it. In my honest opinion, it's primarily a media issue. That, and a prevailing attitude at that age is that it's cool to be ignorant.

We are, first and foremost, a celebrity-crap culture. When news stories about Paris Hilton getting in trouble with the law are the top story on network news; or when the media treats a celebrity's death as if it was 9/11/01 or Hurricane Katrina all over again, it fuels these sort of issues.

[seabeyond]

40. and the answer is more hours in school, .... so we dont send out stupid kids. i ask

will a whole other year help a senior in highschool to FINALLY learn the first pres of u.s.

i dont think so

[spin]

48. I believe we need to move education into the current century...

and start using computers for teaching.

Today's students do not relate to teachers and blackboards. My grandsons have the misfortune of attending a "D" rated school so you can imagine the quality of the teachers. There is only one combined school that offers middle grade and high school classes in the entire county. I sometimes wonder if their history teacher could name the first President of the United States. All the local private schools are run by fundie Christians.

Education primarily taught by computer programs would be far more successful and fair to the children.

Before I retired, the company I worked for had moved all their required yearly courses to computers. The employees liked this a hell of a lot better than sitting in some classroom being taught safety courses by some boring fool who had little idea about what he was teaching.

One of my grandsons failed a grade and had to go to summer school. The summer school program taught the make up classes on computers as an experiment. He blew through the courses he needed to take and took several more for fun. His teacher was absolutely amazed at how well he did.

Our educational system needs a major overhaul. Paying teachers more money may help a little, but the real solutions are far more complex. Like many of the other problems our society faces, vested interests will probably torpedo any real attempts at change.

edited to add

My grandsons knew the accepted answer to the question, "Who was the first President of the United States?"

[Okie4Obama]

42. This story is bullshit.

I wish people would stop and use some critical thinking about these "statistics" instead of just posting it again and again and a-fucking-gain.

[Telly Savalas]

45. Grown-ups these days are too obsessed with reality TV shows and their iPods.

It's numbed their critical thinking skills and made them unable to question the implausible results of a study by a right-wing think tank.

[spin]

44. Maybe the students selected John Hanson...

In 1775 he was elected to the Provincial Legislature of Maryland. Then in 1777, he became a member of Congress where he distinguished himself as a brilliant administrator. Thus, he was elected President in 1781. Was John Hanson the first President of the United States?

The new country was actually formed on March 1, 1781 with the adoption of The Articles of Confederation. This document was actually proposed on June 11, 1776, but not agreed upon by Congress until November 15, 1777. Maryland refused to sign this document until Virginia and New York ceded their western lands (Maryland was afraid that these states would gain too much power in the new government from such large amounts of land). Once the signing took place in 1781, a President was needed to run the country. John Hanson was chosen unanimously by Congress (which included George Washington). In fact, all the other potential candidates refused to run against him, as he was a major player in the Revolution and an extremely influential member of Congress.

As the first President, Hanson had quite the shoes to fill. No one had ever been President and the role was poorly defined. His actions in office would set precedent for all future Presidents. He took office just as the Revolutionary War ended. Almost immediately, the troops demanded to be paid. As would be expected after any long war, there were no funds to meet the salaries. As a result, the soldiers threatened to overthrow the new government and put Washington on the throne as a monarch. All the members of Congress ran for their lives, leaving Hanson running the government. He somehow managed to calm the troops and hold the country together. If he had failed, the government would have fallen almost immediately and everyone would have been bowing to King Washington.

****snip****

Six other presidents were elected after him - Elias Boudinot (1783), Thomas Mifflin (1784), Richard Henry Lee (1785), Nathan Gorman (1786), Arthur St. Clair (1787), and Cyrus Griffin (1788) - all prior to Washington taking office. Why don't we ever hear about the first seven Presidents of the United States? It's quite simple - The Articles of Confederation didn't work well. The individual states had too much power and nothing could be agreed upon. A new doctrine needed to be written - something we know as the Constitution.

George Washington was definitely not the first President of the United States. He was the first President of the United States under the Constitution we follow today. And the first seven Presidents are forgotten in history.
http://www.marshallhall.org/hanson.html

[BlooInBloo]

46. FWIW, Nate Silver takes issue with this....

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2009/09/are-oklahoma-students-really-this-dumb.html

[Smarmie Doofus]

50. Must be cuz the teachers' unions are so powerful in Oklahoma.

I'm kidding.