Reid Blasts Bush on War – with Two Generals – Parallels to Viet Nam. STUNNING!

[autorank]

I heard this on CSpan Radio. It's quite remarkable, his critique is devastating, and he's serious. I've never heard Reid this focused and articulate. I'll get the link.


Reid was dead serious today.

Press Release of Senator Reid

Reid: Democrats, Military Leaders, and American People Committed to Changing Course in Iraq

Monday, April 16, 2007

Washington, DC— Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid of Nevada today issued the following statement at a press conference with Lt. General Robert G. Gard, Jr. (USA, Ret.) and Brig. General John H. Johns (USA, Ret.):

"Today, in the fifth year of this civil war, U.S. forces are suffering losses at a rate not seen since the bloody battle of Fallujah over two years ago and there is no end in sight. Yet the President and the Vice President continue to desperately cling to their failed escalation strategy and attack those who disagree with them.

"The American people, a bipartisan majority of Congress and senior military leaders, including these two distinguished officers standing next to me, have all called for a change of course in Iraq. But President Bush and Vice President Cheney refuse to listen. They are isolated in their thinking and are failing our troops and our country.

"Congress is committed to fully funding our troops, changing the course in Iraq and responsibly ending the war. When Democratic leaders sit down with the President this Wednesday we will be bringing with us the concerns of the American people and the advice of military experts.

"The President has a choice to make in the coming days - cling to the discredited policies that have led our troops further into an intractable civil war or work with a bipartisan majority of Congress to make us more secure." <[/div>

[Monkeyman]

1. Take this from me It is Vietnam Again only worse

[DemoTex]

5. I'll second Monkeyman.

Much worse than Viet Nam. Read Iraq 101 in the March/April Mother Jones. Read it and weep.

http://www.motherjones.com/news/featurex/2007/03/iraq_101.html

[autorank]

6. Worse in overall impact, you're on target with parallels

We've adopted a strategy that infuriates about 25% of the world's population, directly.
The torture strategy in just Iraq is one of the most idiotic moves by any president. It
simply boggles the mind. Then there's the Bush Torture Hotel chain world wide that gets
the non Muslims wondering if we've lost our heads.

3000 deaths in Iraq - 50,000 in Vietnam; 600 thousand civilians deaths in Iraq 2.0 million in Viet Nam

What's the matter with the White House and those who support this still?

[paparush]

8. It IS worse...Its about the collapse of the American Empire

Iraq decides to revalue its oil in Euros.

Say goodbye to America.

The war is about securing access to the oil for America.

Fantastic summary right here:
http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=72&ItemID=12591


The article also explains why most Dems are just as committed to the Iraq Oil war as Bush/Cheney.

[TahitiNut]

10. The corruption and lies that brought it about are far, far worse.

The scope and magnitude of damage to our 'democracy' is far worse. The indolent attitudes of "ordinary Americans" is, in some ways, worse. (I don't yet see the appalling treatment of the returning troops reaching the subterranean depths of Viet Nam.) The burdens being placed on an appallingly few is far worse with 'stop loss' and tour extensions and jerk-arounds. The daily in-country experience, however, probably can't be compared. I'd have a tough time finding worse duty than I-Corps LRRPS and tunnel-rats, quite frankly.

[Morgana LaFey]

15. Maybe trying to compare them is...

not productive. Maybe there's no way to even do it, except subjectively and therefore personally, which tends to make every opinion right and none of them right all at the same time. It's all hell.

Note: "them" (as in "compare them") = specific duties in Vietnam vis a vis Iraq.

[babylonsister]

2. And this came on the heels of dimson's speech today; thank you,

Reid, generals, and autorank!:patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot:

[autorank]

9. You're welcome. I've never heard Reid this articulate.

I actually woke up to this and listened with full attention until it ended.

I can't even imagine what goes through the minds of Senators and Representatives who continue
to sanction this? The aftermath, the period when the cameras roll through and the real horror
emerges, will be like no other in our history.

In Viet Nam, we had real-time coverage of the war and it's horrors. When it was over, it was
as though someone switched everything off, for a good long time.

In Iraq, we've got the opposite during the war. The "embedded" coverage was nothing but
PR for the military. The followup reporting has been heroic with incredible analysis but
it's buried. The post war reporting will, I thing, just go everywhere. We're in for
some ugly truths.

After Iraq, it's going to be very important to keep this alive. One reason we're in Iraq is that
hardly anyone can cite the 2,000,000 dead Viet Nam (SE Asian) civilian figure.

Oh, and here's the best reason to leave, from a tactical point of view:

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0703/S00319.htm

[GreatCaesarsGhost]

3. saw it and started thread earlier

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x665492

[bigtree]

4. I heard this. It shouldn't be missed.

The remarks from the generals were stunning. One general spoke of the way that Nixon had continued the war in Vietnam to 'win', sacrificing thousands of lives for "a result that could have been accomplished years earlier."

[autorank]

19. It shouldn't be missed. I don't enjoy waking up but this had me rivited.

I got up motivated. Our guy was kicking ass. I agreed with every word he said.
Having the generals there was a good move. I think that the opposition in the
military is huge!

I'm sure he's just warming up. He's a good spokesman since he's got that "everyman" quality.

[bigtree]

21. kick

:kick:

[frogcycle]

7. lest anyone have any doubt

the opinions expressed by an overwhelming majority of retired generals and admirals did not suddenly come to them upon retirement.

The active duty brass have to be livid. That's why the extensions were announced early.

I hope Reid sticks to his guns. That veto could just possibly be bush's undoing.

I foresee a scenario in which the top brass start submitting resignations en masse. It would work. bush's recalcitrant attitude and blatant use of "the troops" to further his sicko agenda is already sufficiently unpopular, that it would not take much to push that needle all the way over to empty.

Give the remaining holdouts an excuse to abandon him and they will. Including the pugs in the senate.

Impeachment would then be a necessity to save the union. We would effectively have NO CinC. Kind of like Nixon's Saturday Night Massacre only in reverse.

[autorank]

11. I'm bookmarking this. Could be.

The brass are clearly not happy. Even, in a brief moment of candor, Schwartzkopf had serious doubts. Wonder what was behind his reversal.

I'm a big fan of resignation/impeachment scenarios. What you're talking about would probably do more for this country than about anything. It would attack the .institutionalized
notion of "must kill to be manly." Military leaders couldn't be dismissed very easily.

The onliy supporters Bush would have left would be those who think John Wayne movies are documentaries.

[stellanoir]

12. This is far worse than Vietnam.

At the risk of making stereotypical generalizations. . .

Vietnam was primarily populated by Buddhists. There are few religions more forgiving than Buddhists. . . maybe Pastafarians and Quakers and the Amish. . .

Muslims. . .not so much.

Buddhists didn't comprise 30 % of the worlds population.

We didn't initiate the conflict in Vietnam. The French did.

We didn't piss off the entire planet or trash our treasury in our idiotic conflict in Vietnam.

Just sayin'.

[GreatCaesarsGhost]

13. kick replay on now - c-span

www.c-span.org

[bigtree]

14. kick

[spoony]

16. Give 'em hell Harry k & r

[autorank]

20. He just tells the truth and they think it's Hell. He'll get truthier! n/t

[sutz12]

17. But it's nothing like Vietnam......look, there's no trees.

:sarcasm:

[Disturbed]

18. Busholini and his Fascists are like the monkey with a hand in

the jar. The hand could be removed but the prize cannot. The Iraqi oil and territory has been claimed by the US and UK Govts. The Bill that the Dems put forward does not change that mandate. It does not call for all US Troop withdrawl. It states that a number of troops would stay past '08 to train Iraqi troops and continue to fight al Q in Anbar and elsewhere in Iraq. Busholini wants total control of all Govt. functions. He and Cheney are striving to nueter the Congress and the Judical Branches of Govt. This scenerio is not much different than the Mussolini one. One could hope the outcome would be the same.