I saw general Zinni yesterday on Meet the Press and he said..

[butterfly77]

that we can't leave. He said that we have to get together with all interested parties and decide who we will or will not negotiate with. He also said that we have to get all of our allies to help. How can america do this when bush would not listen to them in the began and ran them all away? How can he do this if he decides that he will not negotiate with Syria and Iran?

Aren't these countries interested parties? So in reality what I take from that is that they will be starting a further war with these two countries and they want to start a draft because they cannot just continue bombing countries when terrorists are all over the world including here.

[Roland99]

1. al-Sadr just pulled out of the gov't, too. Who the hell is there to even talk to if they could?!

Complete and utterly FUBAR!!!!

[butterfly77]

5. bush just came out and made a speech with some military people..

and said that they have a message for their leaders as though these people are speaking for the entire military he tries to pit the military against the dems,. I know this isn't related to my post I just had to say that. Now, back to the post. I believe that the Iraqis and other groups are setting up some type of new plan because of the hit on the green zone, and blowing up of bridges. It seems to me as if the military are sitting ducks. They can't even trust the police or any Iraqis they are training.

[Justice]

2. Paralysis

We can't stay but we can't go. I agree with this, but don't want any more US forces dying in Iraq.

We are going to pay a terrible price for what we (US) has done. But we still have to leave

[butterfly77]

8. They try to make it sound as if the dems are saying pull out today...

without some type of plan to leave. Zinni also said we will always have to stay in that region. Maybe if they would have protected the borders in the first place they would not be having the problems they are having now. In the beginning I remember that Turkey would not leave them use their air base or something related to the border and they still when in without a plan on how to leave..

[gratuitous]

3. Zinni says we can't leave

Because that would shake his faith in redemptive violence to its very foundation. And he's built his career and his life on the belief that violence can drive out violence, and that more darkness is the only answer to darkness. Non-violent methods may not even be given a chance to work, because when diplomacy works (for example, with Nancy Pelosi's recent trip to Syria), it puts the lie to the core of Zinni's being. So the entire amen chorus has to jump on Pelosi, and make progress look bad, because it was accomplished without guns, bombs, or the imminent threat of guns and bombs.

So, how did the spokesperson for non-violence respond to Zinni's comments on Meet the Press?

[Captain Hilts]

4. so how does that relate to his opposition to the war BEFORE it began?

[butterfly77]

10. That's what I would like to know...

I think that he is saying that bush has gotten the situation so messed up that these are the only choices, I don't see anyone who really is an allie but Australia and some little countries with few troops who bush is paying to stay...

[gratuitous]

17. Beats me, ask him

But he's still got his commission and he's still drawing his pay or his pension. I'm guilty of looking at his actions, rather than his rhetoric.

[Captain Hilts]

18. He's retired. And against the war. Campaigned against it. nt

[butterfly77]

19. Everyone who was on one side or the other has been changing..

their opinion where you can hardly tell which way they stand one way or the other.

[Schema Thing]

6. I think Zinni is a big fan of actions like Pelosi's

I think you do not understand Zinni at all.

[Captain Hilts]

13. Agreed, #3 doesn't understand Zinni. nt

[butterfly77]

16. I have always agreed with what he was saying ...

I am telling you what he said yesterday, I wish he would have went a little further in his explanation.

[butterfly77]

9. There wasn't one on the show if that is what you mean..

he was on the show by himself.

[LiberalFighter]

7. Which allies?

Even the ones that have troops there do not exactly have the same level of risk although percentage wise they would have a higher rate.

[butterfly77]

11. The only ally he has is Australia...

and Britain who is pulling out and the little countries he is paying to stay.

[Blackhatjack]

12. Here is the sticking point with those who should be our allies....

The US decided early on to cancel all previous contracts between Iraq and other governments(many our traditional allies like France, etc.). Most of the contracts involved long term oil supply.

WHen our traditional allies offered to help after the government was toppled, they were told that all contracts for reconstruction and oil would be handled by Western Oil Companies.

Shut out of any opportunities to compete for contracts to rebuild and share in oil distribution, they pretty much washed their hands of the situation.

I believe that is why there has been no UN involvement in Iraq, since most of these countries hold seats on the UN Security Council.

[Jim__]

14. Do you disagree with Zinni?

I agree with a lot of what he says. We do need to involve Iraq's neighbors. We do want to do as much as we can to insure that there is not a worse bloodbath in Iraq after we leave. We don't want a regional war when we leave. I think if we made a serious effort to involve Iraq's neighbors, we could leave within the timeline the Dems want, and have a fair possibility that the region and/or country would not fall into a bloody war.

The problem is bush. He is not making any preparation for us to leave, just about guaranteeing that when we do leave, the situation will get even worse.

[butterfly77]

15. You are saying what I am saying...