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Why are so many Dems so eager to leap onto their back foot?

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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 01:37 PM
Original message
Why are so many Dems so eager to leap onto their back foot?
Edited on Wed Sep-16-09 01:55 PM by redqueen
So ACORN employees were involved in some wrongdoing. For the most part, they weren't... but a few employees took the bait (or pretended to, whatever)... the point is... it's pretty much a non-issue, and should be easily and quickly dismissed, then followed up with a counterattack (e.g. where's the outrage for Blackwater's crimes? and the taxpayer money funding that unaccountable organization?)

But we're not seeing that... not in the M$M, and not here.

I don't expect much from those that are able to get on the M$M... but here?

Really?


We are going to be fighting a lot of crap like this... and we better learn how to handle it a lot more effectively. We can't afford to let them frame the debate, and follow along obediently reacting to their BS. We need to learn how to turn their arguments against them, and put them on the defense over their much more serious offenses. Turning crises into opportunities, so to speak.
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Rude Dog Donating Member (151 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 01:38 PM
Response to Original message
1. It's natural.
We're so used to being out of power that we can't handle being in power. We're so used to being beaten down that we can't stand up.

Some of us apparently want to lose.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #1
20. I guess so.
Sad, really.
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TxRider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #1
29. The latest dance move?
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masuki bance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 01:41 PM
Response to Original message
2. You mean like Jon Stewart?
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Yeah, like him.
You can post that thing as many times as you like... it doesn't make his assertion correct.
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woo me with science Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 09:19 AM
Response to Reply #4
42. It's correct all on its own.
Apologists for bad behavior make me tired.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 09:27 AM
Response to Reply #42
43. Then you think that ACORN is "largely corrupt"?
Edited on Thu Sep-17-09 09:28 AM by redqueen
Because a few employees at a few offices broke rules and acted like idiots?
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woo me with science Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 09:58 AM
Response to Reply #43
45. Those weren't my words.
Edited on Thu Sep-17-09 10:02 AM by woo me with science
I know ACORN has done good work, too. But corruption at at least four offices so far doesn't, at first glance, sound to me like "just a few bad apples."

No, I am saying that an investigation of how widespread this corruption really is, is warranted.

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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 10:18 AM
Response to Reply #45
47. That's what Stewart said. And you said you agreed with him.
There is an investigation now.

So please, enough with helping the right with their idiotic bullshit distractions.
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woo me with science Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #47
49. Please, enough with enabling those
who would sweep the whole thing under the rug.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #49
50. Who wants to sweep the whole thing under the rug?
I want us to stop being punks for the pukes and start going on the attack instead of always dancing to the RW's tune.
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woo me with science Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #50
51. I am sorry you feel like a "punk for the pukes."
I certainly don't.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #51
53. *roffle*
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OwnedByFerrets Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #2
9. I was very disappointed in Jon last nite.
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 01:42 PM
Response to Original message
3. Folks here condemn the military because of what a few do. No, it doesn't make sense. nt
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. A little logic... please.
There are a variety of reasons that people "condemn the military"... most do not do so *solely* due to the actions of those soldiers who gleefully commit atrocious crimes.

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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. Not to mention said atrocities have been endemic in armies throughout human history....
Edited on Wed Sep-16-09 01:47 PM by BlooInBloo
The same, of course, cannot be said of ACORN.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Also true.
Seeing the logical gymnastics people are using to try to bolster the RW's BS argument is puzzling, to say the least.

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maxsolomon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #3
12. well, that's not why i condemn the military
i could give 2 shits about the lyndie englands of the military.

i do so because the expense is unjustifiable in proportion to any potential threat we face. it is a tool of agression and empire, not defense.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. Thanks for the example.
There are so many reasons... that analogy is just plain stupid.
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #12
37. +1 n/t
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 06:02 PM
Response to Reply #37
38. Thanks... it's shocking that someone even *tried* to claim
Edited on Wed Sep-16-09 06:02 PM by redqueen
that opposition to the military was based solely (or in large part, even) on rogue sodliers' actions.

Well, ok... it's not really that shocking. But still...
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azmouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 01:43 PM
Response to Original message
5. Republicans were out to get ACORN from the moment Obama was nominated for Pres.
It's like the attacks on Clinton all over again.
The Republicans will do anything and everything to make a Democratic President look bad.
ACORN is just the tip of the iceberg. The next four or eight years will see more such indirect attacks on Pres Obama.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. I hope people start brushing up...
Edited on Wed Sep-16-09 01:47 PM by redqueen
we're going to have a lot of fights on our hands... we cannot afford to let them call the tune.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #5
24. 'Way before that. ACORN has always been a target because they register
black voters. The rwingnuts did the same to the NAACP in the day, then to MoveOn, remember? ACORN is up now.

Falling for this bs is a waste of time and energy and just plays into their hand.
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opihimoimoi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 01:44 PM
Response to Original message
6. Many of us are really not "US" but something else....just posing as "US".they make Hateful comments
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 02:10 PM
Response to Original message
13. LOL... I wonder why the unrec...
if you disagree then please say why... I'd really like to know.
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jonnyblitz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. i will kick and rec your post to cancel the unrec because I
agree with your OP plus your responses to comments in this thread.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Thanks... I appreciate that.
And I do think this issue - not ACORN, but the issue of Dems knowing how to deal with RW BS attacks - is an extremely critical one.
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HamdenRice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 03:01 PM
Response to Original message
17. It's definitely not fair or parallel -- ie what happens to the other side
They are still able to get away with anything.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. Nothing to do with fairness... I'm talking strictly about tactics.
We need to learn how to use these situations as opportunities to try to put the other side on the defensive, and stop playing into their hands.

Far too many Dems do it every single damn time... when will we learn?
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Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 03:08 PM
Response to Original message
18. You are correct
You are also correct that being ready for a constant onslaught of similar stories is a very wise idea. Never believe a thing that is not proven beyond a shadow of a doubt. Not about them, not about us, not about that girl in People magazine. Never. Believe. A. Word.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. Usually good old critical thinking is enough. (nt)
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 04:15 PM
Response to Original message
22. Still with the unrecs?
I can't help but wonder...
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guitar man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 04:17 PM
Response to Original message
23. I guess leaping on their back foot is what they do
When they aren't busy stepping on their dicks :banghead:
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. Whatever the reason, it has to stop.
Edited on Wed Sep-16-09 04:36 PM by redqueen
I know it's pretty much tradition with liberals, the self-defeating crap... but enough helping the other side already!
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guitar man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. I agree
We won a mandate in the last election and it's time to ignore the loser's temper tantrums and get on with repairing the damage they have done. Enough.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 04:51 PM
Response to Original message
27. Every time this gets unrec'd I'm going to kick it.
Seems fair to me. :P
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. Boy... quite the rec/unrec battle...
I had no idea this was such a controversial idea!
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #28
32. My two last OP ended in the negative. Neither were controversial.
It's a power play by the idiots amongst us.
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damntexdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 05:02 PM
Response to Original message
30. It's preparatory to bending over backwards all the way.
Then extending their heads between their legs so as to kiss GOP ass.
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 05:07 PM
Response to Original message
31. rec 4. Good post redqueen. nt
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #31
34. Thank you.
And thanks for the possible explanation re: the unrecs. lol... idiots.
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 05:10 PM
Response to Original message
33. One thing, our tent is so large a lot of assholes get in. Just sayin nt
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rudy23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 05:31 PM
Response to Original message
35. My guess, is because we're the party that favors empathy, civility, cooperation, etc.
We're wired that way I believe, and we gravitate towards things that cater to that perspective. The other side is more about competition and survival tactics.

I think what we see on a mass level is this familiar pattern, as if the country is having one big, basic argument. The Dem starts out aiming for the middle ground, while the Repub starts out taking the most extreme position on their argument that they can. The Dem meets them in the middle of those points, which is why most mainstream political arguments keep moving center-right, no matter how much reality would favor more of a left position as Repub positions fail us time and time again.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. We need to stop pretending we live in an ideal world...
Edited on Wed Sep-16-09 05:43 PM by redqueen
and battle our opponents in the real world.

If we keep insisting on assisting those who work against us, we might as well just give up.
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 06:30 PM
Response to Reply #36
39. Agree, we can still have empathy, civility and compassion and yet kick butt when needed.
And it was never needed more than now.
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opihimoimoi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 05:29 AM
Response to Original message
40. KnR...... :o)
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 09:13 AM
Response to Reply #40
41. Thank you.
:)
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suffragette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 09:40 AM
Response to Original message
44. I'm with you
Sometimes we bend over backwards in an effort to be fair or impartial about an incident while overlooking or minimizing the clear goal behind it.

And in this case it's that Republican operatives have been actively pursuing ways to take down an organization they hate. And they are going after that goal.


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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 10:08 AM
Response to Original message
46. Why would Democrats attack Blackwater when Democrats are continuing to fund them?
Who would we be trying to make look bad? The Obama administration? Congress?
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 10:22 AM
Response to Reply #46
48. "Look bad"? WTF? This is about taking control of the message.
Dems seem to habitually just let repukes do it... they sit back and let the repukes frame the debate... operating solely on defense, wasting just about every opportunity to attack.

It's getting very very very old.

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opihimoimoi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #48
52. Yup, the mission of the GOP is to follow their BULLY TRAITS,,,FOOLUM so Ya Can ROOLUM
Edited on Thu Sep-17-09 11:57 AM by opihimoimoi
Intimidate

so ya can exasperate...

Charmum

so ya can dominateum

and abscond with the gain

while others suffer the Pain

Read THE GOOD SOCIETY John Kenneth Galbraith

He describes our sit....there are those who want and demand the POOR CLASS...They want cheap labor for their domestic and Factory(etc) needs....them Gardners, them diaper changers, them cube rats , and those picking veggies and fruit, had better NOT be making $70K per year...

those who think this way are mostly GOP and mega rich dudes who CONTROL large amounts of POWER.

He called this out before W came into the stolen Oval.

He was right.
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