We will never have this chance again!!

[dajoki]

Here's what really bugs me. We finally have the opportunity to get some real reform signed into law, but President Obama and the Dem Congress seem to be coddling the repubs on healthcare. HR 676 has been floating around the House for years now, we have a solid majority of Dems. So why can't they get it through? If anyone knows, please tell me because I am getting disgusted with the whole thing righ now.

Obama needs to stop worrying about pleasing everyone because that will never happen. He needs to get the Dem majorities behind this bill so they could get it to his desk for signing. He has the best chance we may ever see and if he doesn't take it we will be totally screwed. He has a real chance to make history, like FDR with Social Security, or LBJ with Medicare and Medicaid. They fought for those laws and they won, we need a leader like that now or the chance will pass us by.

When the republicans were in charge they didn't care about bipartisanship, that is why we are in this mess we are in now. Its the Dems turn to run the show, but they are just twiddling their fingers and worrying about the next time they are up for election. That is the problem, they could care less about passing something worthwhile, to them getting reelected is more important than anything that will help the people of this country. So someone please tell me why our President and Dem leadership are playing games with such an important issue.

[sandnsea]

1. They're called votes

I just don't understand why it's so complicated to understand. People do not want single payer.

They want government to guarantee health coverage. They do not want government to take away their employer provided insurance.

[dajoki]

3. And I'm sure they love...

when their employer keeps raising their premiums.

[T Wolf]

8. Everyone just loves having to fight with their insurance corp to get care covered. And the constant

barrage of paperwork.

I would conclude, rather than your Pollyanna Aetna-is-great bull, that most Americans do want a change in their health care, not insurance. And if the Dems would really fight for single-payer and the media actually cover that perspective, an overwhelming majority would choose to have the US join the 21st century and the rest of the industrialized nations in providing health care to its citizens.

Only in the slanted and warped world controlled by the corporate elite are you able to spread the lie that we all love our insurance companies.

The OP is correct in that this is the best chance for real reform that has come along in my (overly-long) lifetime. If/when the Dems blow it, I know that I will die without seeing any improvement. Probably, my daughters as well.

What might have been...

[dajoki]

10. Thank You, very well said!! n/t

[TxRider]

31. What's that quote... Better the devil you know...

People fear change, and the federal government and congress is deeply mistrusted by many for realistic reasons.

[SammyWinstonJack]

44. +1

[sandnsea]

50. You can check the DU polls

Are you happy with your health care coverage. A very large number of people say yes, and that's DU.

This is reality.

[eridani]

72. Sure. And they are happy with their local fire departments as well

Given that 85% of the population accounts for only 15% of health care expenses, they don't know shit about either, and with luck will never have to find out.

[sandnsea]

78. Oh. So they need to be educated?

How many times have I said that on this board. Change Minds, Change Votes.

Until we find a way to go into these communities the way they do, with their Vote Values buses and all the rest, we're going to continue to have this problem.

It's the stupid, stupid.

[eridani]

80. Yes, and it's a real problem when most people are not, and will likely never be--

--affected by serious illness.

[riderinthestorm]

11. My husband's about to reach his lifetime benefits distribution and will be kicked off his employer

provided insurance.

Grade IV, Stage IV lymphoma.

Actually there are more than a few of us who DO want the government to take away our employer provided insurance, sooner rather than later, before we go into bankruptcy. Having a government public option would be okay. Single payer would be a dream.

[dajoki]

29. I'm really sorry...

about your husband, I hope things work out the best they could for both of you. You and your husband will be in my prayers.

[sandnsea]

52. Did I say there wasn't anyone who wanted government health coverage?

I didn't. I said there aren't enough votes.

[Vincardog]

12. Votes is the answer people want single payer but ES&S are counting the votes so the corporations win

Any one who says that "The people do not want Single Payer" can take a poll of how many want to give up their Medicare.

[SammyWinstonJack]

45. +1 nt

[Edweird]

38. Obviously. That's why Medicare is so unpopular.

[sandnsea]

54. That's right. Don't screw up their Medicare with govt health care

I can't help people are stupid. But that's just the way it is until somebody makes a very real effort to get into these rural areas and educate them.

[elocs]

2. A loss on true and meaningful healthcare reform will become what defines the Obama administration.

Republicans will be encouraged and have their pattern and blueprint how to thwart the Democrats at every turn. It will be downhill and hell for Democrats from there, culminating with the Republicans regaining power just as so many were dancing on their graves.

[dajoki]

5. That's what I'm saying...

we have this ONE chance and that's all.

[rainy]

4. Its the blue dogs that are ruining this.

If all dems were on board 100% we wouldn't need to keep compromising. All of that is for the blue-dogs or else we can't get the vote.

[dajoki]

6. Yes that is true...

but we need the leadership to get them on the right side of the issue.

[bobbolink]

51. But, from what I'm seeing, the compromises would continue anyway.

It's like an addiction with these Dems!

[Pyrzqxgl]

7. The left has to get off it's collective ass & find progressives to run against Blue Dogs.

Maybe a progressive slate that would put candidates up
against each one of them & a national effort to elect
them. If they screw us on the public option, we screw
them back at the ballot box.

[sandnsea]

55. First you have to educate that electorate

to the truth of the issues. Until somebody does that, nothing is ever going to change.

[frebrd]

9. Exactly! This is our last, best chance.......

and Obama and the Congress are pissing it away. Obama because he's obsessed with "bipartisanship", and the Congress because they won't give up a good funding source.

[kenny blankenship]

13. You're wrong that there won't be another chance. The system is in CRASH MODE

this "reform" is designed to prop the system up for a little while longer. But it can't stop it from crashing. There's nothing to control costs in the legislation in fact Obama has done deals with Big Pharmaceuticals to forbid Medicare from negotiating lower prices for drugs as a condition for their non-resistance to insurance "reform". Insurance racketeers are getting subsidized customers and millions of new captive buyers.

We can pass this piece of larceny and we will be RIGHT BACK at square one within 10 years.

[dajoki]

16. Which reform?

[kenny blankenship]

17. The reform coming out of DC that will do nothing to diminish the middle man's profits

All of them answer to that description and so will the final plan --and you know it.

You are for Medicare for all, ( I apologize for confusing your position with those who say Pass-Any-Crap-Bill-Claim-Victory) but nobody is going to move that bill. Obama certainly is not.

[dajoki]

20. That is what I'm saying n/t

[kenny blankenship]

24. Sorry I read too fast and misunderstood your position

[dajoki]

26. No problem n/t

[Vincardog]

79. Or we can not pass it and force them to pass Universal Single Payer Paid for by w's tax cuts

[Wetzelbill]

14. K and R

[Hannah Bell]

15. Because government is the executive committee of the ruling class, of course.

& the ruling class doesn't want single payer.

[dajoki]

18. dupe n/t

[dajoki]

19. I think you are correct...

it could be that simple. Even though people like to think their votes count and their reps are working for them, when they get in they are all the same, mostly.

[blindpig]

21. Looks to me like there was never a chance.

Consider the campaign donations.....the fix was in before the primaries were over.

[dajoki]

22. You are probably correct n/t

[Hannah Bell]

23. furthermore, consider obama's campaign backers (e.g. the two richest men in the US, for starters),

then consider the pitiful mccain campaign.

the fix indeed.

[SammyWinstonJack]

46. Exactly. nt

[sandnsea]

56. A chance for single payer? Who said there was??

Honestly what planet do you people live on.

If you're equating single payer to the public option, then that's the reason we're having so much trouble with the public option. Stop that.

[blindpig]

57. Single payer is what is wanted and needed.

Public Option is essentially worthless, a fig leaf for the continued gouging by the insurance industry and big pharma. Proof positive of the utter depravity of our economic system.

[bvar22]

25. Obama is not trying to please everyone.

He is certainly not trying to please his base in the Democratic Wing of the Democratic Party.

He is not really trying to please Republicans.

He IS working hard to please his financiers on Wall Street.
A $Trillion Dollar gift to the Health Insurance Industry would also be a BONANZA for Wall Street.
The Republicans just happen to work for the same boss.

Follow the money.

[dajoki]

27. That is certainly possible...

and another way to look at it.

[treestar]

35. But need that be bad?

It could be because they already control so much, and so many people are employed by them -

Still don't get the gift to the insurance industry - they'd have to provide coverage in return. If more people are covered, and they are people the insurance industry didn't cover voluntarily, then that does not seem like a "gift." Rather a greater regulation.

[slipslidingaway]

28. Democrats need to start caring about people as much as they do...

about corporations.

Clinton took SP off the table in the early 90's, now Obama takes SP off the table, the only reason is to keep the for profit companies in business.



1993...
It's Time for a Real Debate on National Health Insurance - by Jeff Cohen and Norman Solomon
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/slipslidingaw...

[saracat]

30. Because it isn't really an important issue to many of them.

it is just smoke and mirrors.Just like the Baucus Bill.

[unblock]

32. i don't think that's true. i'm with kucinich on this one.

if what we wind up with is a private mandate, the results may be SO bad and SO unpopular that we may wind up with something really good, after 4 years of people hating what gets passed this year.

[dajoki]

34. Anything is possible...

but I think if we get a system that's set up to fail it will give the repubs and the insurance companies the chance to say "I told you so" and we will be worse off than ever.

[kctim]

33. You ask "so why can't they geit it through?"

and then answer it later in your piece: "to them getting reelected is more important than anything that will help the people of this country."

IF the one's saying no get re-elected, it stands to reason they were re-elected because they have represented their constituents views and that is more important than disregarding their views and voting how you think they should in order to help the people of this country how you think they should be helped.
Why in the hell should a representative vote AGAINST what those who vote for them want?

IF the majority of moderate Dems want govt healthcare, (they don't) they will vote their "blue dog" reps out and replace them with a more progressive rep and you will have another chance at govt healthcare.

[dajoki]

36. Someone else...

posted in this thread about the way the media covers it and that would be the reason people think they don't need reform. Most people don't take the time to understand what their reps are doing, so they see these TV ads and think they must be right.

[kctim]

39. Sorry

but that is nothing more than an excuse used to ignore facts when they don't fall in line with one's personal belief of how things "really are." It is denial.

We are talking about healthcare, not some obscure piece of legislation, and NOBODY has to search very hard to find out where their rep stands on the issue. Blaming the media for people not thinking as you want them to think is ridiculous.

[dajoki]

41. Look...

I'm not going to get into it with you, but many people have reasons for things they do. Maybe many constituants' calls are coming from people already on medicare and are afraid of changes. And you must be an idiot if you think every rep. gives a crap about what their constituants think.

[kctim]

43. Interesting

You claim "them getting re-elected is more important" and then say they don't "give a crap about what their constituents think." You either don't understand how one gets re-elected or you just refuse to acknowledge facts when they don't come to the outcome you desire. Yet, I am the idiot? Priceless.

Of course many calls are from people on medicare and don't want change, but many are also from those of us who don't want govt having anything to do with healthcare. Been there, done that and don't want to ever deal with it again.

Of course you don't want to "get into it" with me, you would rather live in your made up world than face reality.

[dajoki]

48. OK...

but many are also from those of us who don't want govt having anything to do with healthcare. Been there, done that and don't want to ever deal with it again.


So YOU don't want government interference in healthcare. Are you a libertarian? Sure sounds like it. Anyone who thinks that their rep. is working for them is clueless. They run spiffy ads when up for reelection and the candidate with the best spin and most money usually wins elections. Oh, the reason I don't want to get into it with you is because my health is not that good and I can't sit here very long going back and forth. So you face reality and realize that just because YOU don't want universal health coverage, doesn't mean that most people don't.

[kctim]

73. No, I am not a Libertarian

I am just a moderate with actual experience with govt healthcare rather than fantasy dreams.

Yes, all candidates run spiffy ads that are very effective. Yes they spin. And yes, the best funded usually wins. But on major issues, people know where they stand on the issue and usually vote for who shares their view.

Of course I do not know if most people want govt healthcare or not, but neither do you and I find it very interesting that so many people on here would rather live boxed up in their own little made up world instead of facing that fact. Democrats did that under clinton and paid dearly, so rather than face the same thing possibly happening again, I would prefer we did something to ensure it does not and you do not do that by making excuses.

[bobbolink]

37. Why? Simple... $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Bought and sold.

[dajoki]

40. Yes...

like somebody said up thread, it was decided before the primaries were even over, by campaign contributions.

[bobbolink]

42. "Unbought and Unbossed" -- Shirley Chisholm, RIP

The proudest vote I've ever cast.... Shirley Chisholm for President Of The United States, 1972.

I appreciate her now more than I did even back then.

Unbought and unbossed.

What a concept.

[BzaDem]

47. The biggest error in your OP is that you somehow think that we have the chance now.

Progressives form a MINORITY of both houses. To pass anything, you need blue-dogs and moderates. Not only would blue dogs and moderates oppose single payer, but they would rather become Republicans than support it. The idea that we have the votes (or any way of getting them) for single payer is pure unadulterated fantasy.

[dajoki]

49. I think it would pass in the House...

it may be fantasy but I don't think so. The Senate is another story.

[BzaDem]

60. There is NO WAY it would pass the house. No way.

Not a chance in hell. We will find out when the HR676 vote comes back, but I don't need to wait that long to say that it won't even come close to getting a majority.

[dajoki]

62. If there was...

any leadership it would.

[dajoki]

53. And...

if President Obama gave it some pushing it could help it very much. We need leadership.

[SammyWinstonJack]

58. Obama is more interested in bi-partisanshit than leadership.

[dajoki]

59. The way...

things look right now, I agree.

[SammyWinstonJack]

61. Sad, isn't it?

[dajoki]

63. Extremely n/t

[sandnsea]

64. He pushed for the public option

and we're having a hard time getting that.

Why do you think he could push to dismantle private insurance altogether and it would magically happen?

[dajoki]

65. I do not think...

that there will be some kind of magical agreement on anything, but I do think he could call the Dem leaders together and tell them what he wants in strong terms.

[sandnsea]

67. What is your purpose?

He has met with Dem leaders. I don't understand if single payer people are in a constant tantrum state or what, but there's absolutely nothing anybody in Washington D.C. can do to enact single payer. NOTHING.

People have to go to red states and counties and get those people to stop reacting to everything Rush Limbaugh tells them. It's really that simple. They hate whatever they're told to hate. Nothing will change until that changes.

[dajoki]

68. So, then, its stupidity? n/t

[sandnsea]

71. What's stupidity? n/t

[dajoki]

74. Nevermind n/t

[dajoki]

75. dupe n/t

[DutchLiberal]

66. Obama and the Dems don't *want* reform. They don't get paid for reform...

They are owned. Owned by the insurance companies who donated to their campaigns. They work for the companies, not for the people.

[SammyWinstonJack]

69. +1

[Echo In Light]

76. +2

[varelse]

70. Someone smugly stated "it's all about votes"

How many people polled were *for* the massive bailout engineered by Paulson last year? How many people wrote, called, or visited their representatives in Congress to BEG them NOT to pass that?

Votes don't count for shit when it comes to hemorrhaging taxpayer money to cover the losses of the high rollers. Suddenly, though, they're all over the polls, and the town-hall meetings, and the media fussing about "the taxpayer vote" when it comes to threatening obscene corporate profits - or spending any of our money taking care of our own.

[sandnsea]

77. I guess it is about stupidity

Because if that hadn't passed, the Depression would look like prosperity.

[maryf]

81. Sorry I missed this until now, dajoki...

sadly they are playing games, because that's all it is to them. They are well recompensed for not eliminating the profit driven insurance companies completely from necessary health care, which is what 676 would do...