It's a set up! My official prediction.

[Joanne98]

It's a huge transfer of wealth from the people to the healthcare industry!

It won't lower cost or cause competition.

It will create health insurance companies that are TOO BIG TO FAIL!

It will bankrupt or kill millions of Americans!

NO Republicans except Snow will vote for it and when it becomes clear that it's just like the bank bailouts.. WE'LL GET BLAMED FOR THAT TOO!

It's a SET UP!

If the Democrats fall for this they deserve to lose in 2010!

I'm mean how stoopid can you get?

[dbonds]

1. I hope you are wrong.

Although little surprises me anymore.

[spanone]

2. you've already heard the speech and seen the legislation...?

[Joanne98]

12. I don't need too. We just watched this movie with the banks!

Remember that huge transfer of wealth?

[Deja Q]

42. yeah. It started with Bush. You're being prejudgmental.

I hope you're wrong.

If you're right, we'll put in 1000 recs to get you on the top of the front page if it'll make you feel better.

[Cleita]

3. That's what will happen if Max Baucus's plan prevails.

It's time for torches and pitchforks if Obama doesn't draw a line in the sand tonight.

[FiveGoodMen]

4. I couldn't have put it any better.

I think we're screwed.

[JDPriestly]

5. I fear you are right. I don't think the Constitution gives Congress

the authority to order us directly to buy a product from a certain number of private companies or individuals. I just don't think that authority is there. I think the government can tax us and then use our tax money as it wishes, but even the general welfare clause does not stretch this far. And with today's Supreme Court? A state might be able to do this, but I don't think the federal government can. Not unless there is a public option.

That is because there really is not opt-out other than moving to another country. With things like flood control insurance or car insurance, you have an opt-out. You don't have to live in a flood plain. You don't have to own a car. But you have to have a physical body. And I don't think that the limits on taxation will allow the government to tax someone for not paying a private country some ransom that the private company demands. I haven't thought through all the possibilities, but I do not see this. Of course, Bush's give-aways to the banks were, in my opinion, arguably unconstitutional. But the government could get by with it because no one would have had standing to sue for damages for the violation of the Constitution. But, here, at least I cannot think of a way that Congress could pass and enforce the law that proposes to require people to pay private insurance companies and provides not government alternative and no opt-out other than paying a fine or buy-out.

[Ruby the Liberal]

25. I was just thinking about this the other day

The legality of requiring people to purchase a product or service from a set group of private providers, especially in the case where for-profit institutions are the only ones with available packages. Coupled with a lack of restriction on CEO pay, maximums on administrative overhead and other cost containment measures that are regulated, not suggested.

I would think this would be rather easy to challenge, but I am not an attorney.

[KoKo]

28. +1

[Bonhomme Richard]

6. Whatever the Democrats come up with they will own so...........

it had better be a good bill.

[Joanne98]

13. That's the problem. We're going to own the whole frigging disaster.

[Egnever]

7. Ok

Chicken little.

[ShortnFiery]

8. And yet, we keep voting for progressive democrats while the corporate DLC/Blue dogs RULE ...

everything that happens within the "out of touch" Senate legislation. :(



If we keep supporting these pseudo-democrats, we're FOOLS.

Wake up liberals! We're "Charlie Brown" hoping against hope that "Lucy" will hold the football ... when every damn time, we're screwed.



Time to get fired-up for TRUE health care reform!

[Echo In Light]

16. +1 - always enjoy your pic-posts!

[Joanne98]

22. I'm afraid that the DLC is going to be the death of us.

[frebrd]

26. They already have been! We just haven't realized it yet. eom

[Echo In Light]

9. Think it's bad now, wait til the inevitable occurs & DU is subjected to parades of justifications

Cheerleaders and apologists will be scamblin' a-holes and elbows to place the sell out "reform" high upon sanctimonious pedestals.

Count on it

[ShortnFiery]

15. Yes, they're shameless. The "very poor" will get a few scraps and the wealthy will be fat and sassy

while those of us in The Middle Class continue to financially get screwed ... then we'll be left with the Ultra-Rich, a small Merchant Class and US = The Working Poor.

A health care reform bill without a robust Public Option is another FINANCIAL HIT to Middle Class America.

This could be the last "nail in the coffin" for the eradication of the American Middle Class. :grr:

[Echo In Light]

18. Gee, hard to predict what might then be in the offing...

[ShortnFiery]

21. Wait and see? I wish that I was wrong, but I haven't been to date when it comes

to predicting the corruption in our U.S. Senate. :(

[QC]

35. They will be running around with lumps of shit claiming that it's chocolate fudge.

Don't let the stench and flies fool you, it's delicious chocolate. Honest! And if you don't think so you're a PUMA!

[lexifuzz]

10. Dear Mr President.....

I am writing a book called Dear Mr. President....
I need your storied on how he has either postively or negitively affected your life. This isn't to bash him or praise him, its just to gather other people stories and out them in writing and out into the world. No real names will be used and no information will be given out. It will be all in your own words. Please send me your sotries, ther is no limit on how short or how long it can be. Send them to [email protected]
Thanks

[babylonsister]

11. And I officially predict you are wrong. nt

[Joanne98]

17. I'm not wrong on "too big to fail" Insurance companies are EXEMPT

From the anti-trust laws. The minute the borders are open they'll all run to the state with the least regulations then the biggest ones will proceed to eat up everybody else.

It's AIG on steriods.

Wall Street will be happy though. MERGER MANIA DAYS AHEAD!

[leftstreet]

14. TOO BIG TO FAIL...bubble...bailout...

...this sounds vaguely familiar

[Joanne98]

20. At least we now know what the next bubble is going to be.

[leftstreet]

24. Are there any other corpora...persons who haven't had their turn?

We could really use the break

[Joanne98]

31. A small business/Main st bubble would be nice....

[NYC_SKP]

19. You're right, Barack Obama has his head ALL the way up Grassley's Ass, right?

Or is it Max Baucus???

Or, Oh My God... BOTH???

:sarcasm:

[TK421]

23. I just can't figure out Olympia Snowe......where does this woman stand?

She doesn't seem to march in lock-step with the troglodytes....haven't followed her all that much, so I know little else about her

[Laelth]

27. I fear you are right. k&r n/t

:dem:

-Laelth

[femrap]

29. Obama represents the

Corporations, not us. No Public Option says it all.

[Echo In Light]

32. Precisely why it was always gonna either be him or Hilary: "unprecedented" overshadows the obvious

And it works, too.

Until enough people free themselves from the two party spell they're under, all you'll see is the same-old, same-old Profits Over People policies, irrespective of 'new, fresh faces' that come along with promise of something 'different.'

[femrap]

43. I am becoming a

hermit....as self-sustaining as possible. WASF.

[Joanne98]

30. Here's the TOO BIG TO FAIL evidence already!!!!!!!!!

Baucus Plan Would Gut State-Level Insurance Industry Regulation

Wed Sep 09, 2009 at 09:27:06 AM PDT

Max Baucus’ plan had the name of Liz Fowler, a former WellPoint VP who now works for the Finance Committee, in the metadata. When you have WellPoint personnel instrumental in writing the laws, you get little provisions like this:

Interstate Sale of Insurance. Starting in 2015, states may form “health care choice compacts” to allow for the purchase of non-group health insurance across state lines. Such compacts may exist between two or more states. Once compacts have been formed, insurers would be allowed to sell policies in any state participating in the compact. Insurers selling policies through a compact would only be subject to the laws and regulations of the state where the policy is written or issued.

dday's diary :: :: This is something that conservatives have been begging to do for years. Even the most outgunned conservative on a talking head debate can vomit up “let people take their insurance across state lines to increase competition!” It sounds reasonable. But there’s a very good reason why it would quickly turn into a nightmare, and you can see it in the examples of Delaware and South Dakota.

Both of those states have essentially no regulations on credit card companies. When legislation passed allowing banks to issue credit cards across state lines, some states started wildly deregulating their credit card markets in a race to the bottom. South Dakota and Delaware won. And now practically all credit cards are issued from those two states.

This would be precisely what would happen to the health insurance market under these “health care choice compacts,” which could go national, based on this language. Right now, insurance companies can sell their coverage “across state lines,” they just have to be accountable to the laws of the state where they sell it. Under this plan, insurers would be allowed to ignore the regulations in the state where individuals purchase insurance, and only subject to the laws where they issue it. Insurance regulations vary widely in the states, and would do so more under this compact. Anti-government legislatures could gut insurance regulation to entice insurers into setting up their corporate HQs there. States with regulations in place might prefer to lighten their regulatory case load, in this era of budget struggles, and let some other state deal with it. The insurance exchanges would presumably put a stop to this practice, but crucially, they only have a state-level framework and not a national one.

Consumer Watchdog jumped on this today, claiming that this race to the bottom could be expanded.

Washington, D.C. — The consumer group that pioneered the most successful insurance premium regulation law in the nation, which has saved California drivers $62 billion on auto insurance rates since 1988, released a report today outlining the deep flaws in the proposed Senate Finance Committee health reforms. The report calls on Congress to adopt “prior approval” health insurance rate regulation and block insurance industry efforts to gut state consumer protection laws.

A “framework plan” released today by the so-called “Group of Six” Senators negotiating a health reform bill headed by Senator Max Baucus (D-MT) would open the door to gutting state laws. The plan would result in a “race to the bottom” in health care regulation by allowing insurance companies that participate in “health care compacts” to choose the weakest state law to govern all their policies, regardless of which state the policies are sold in. Currently, insurance companies must abide by the state laws of any state where they sell insurance. The Baucus plan resembles an industry proposal carried by Mike Enzi (R-WY) in 2006 discussed below <...>

** Loss of state benefit mandates would allow exclusion of preventive treatments and exams, prevent early diagnosis of disease and evade Patient Bill of Rights laws passed in nearly every state. Denying access to such basic preventive care makes treatment more costly to the policyholder and ultimately to taxpayers, who pick up the bill when individuals cannot pay outrageous out-of-pocket costs.

** State laws providing consumers the right to appeal a coverage denial to an independent panel of physicians, a right to a second opinion, and assistance from state regulators when coverage is denied would all be lost under the Enzi approach.

** Individual patients who currently have the ability to hold insurers financially accountable for injuries caused by the denial or delay of necessary care would lose those rights if they joined the Enzi co-op.

This is what you get when industry VPs write your laws.

...oh by the way, in case you think that some federal overseer will smooth this out, there is no federal overseer of the health insurance industry. It's all enforced at the state level, and the only thing the Baucus plan adds is a call for states to hire an ombudsman:

Ombudsman. In 2010, states would be required to establish an ombudsman office to act as a consumer advocate for those with private coverage in the individual and small group markets. Policyholders whose health insurers have rejected claims and who have exhausted internal appeals would be able to access the ombudsman office for assistance.

Yay, the states get an ombudsman! And he or she can only be tapped if individuals "exhaust internal appeals"; that is, beg their insurers to stop cheating them. And since the states will be establishing the office themselves, they'll set the budgets and choose the staff - meaning that we'll potentially be leaving enforcement of insurance regulations in Texas and South Carolina, for example, to Rick Perry and Mark Sanford. And, given this "health care choice compacts" rider, they could set the enforcement for the entire nation.

...as commenter jim bow notes, Baucus joined the filibuster of Mike Enzi's attempt to create this kind of race to the bottom in the insurance industry back in May 2006. I guess he could afford to do that back then, but a lot of insurance cash is riding on him now.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/9/9/779233/-Baucus-Plan-Would-Gut-State-Level-Insurance-Industry-Regulation

[alcibiades_mystery]

33. Wow...Joanne98 thinks everything is set up against us

There's a big fucking surprise.

[rucky]

37. I haven't really seen much evidence to the contrary. n/t

[bluesmail]

34. I've read over and over that the top tier wants to rid themselves

of 80% of us pesky meddling humans. Population so teensy, it's easier to Control. I've also read parts of Alternative 3, a book you could never get so forget getting it now. (I'm guessing a DUer may have it)! which makes sense of the greediness of the top tier, their eagerness to restart elsewhere. All the money buys power buys information from think tanks on what the earth will be like in 100's of years. Whether it will be inhabitable say in the year 2100. I agree joanne98, it's all rigged.

[MzNov]

36. 2 things I know for sure

Head Senate Clown Baucus is a liar and a fraud.

Nancy Pelosi will cave like the firetruck that went into the sink hole. Then twist all the arms off of the PRogressives.

But in the end, the progressives who hold their ground and vote no on whatever crap bill they come up with, will get blamed for destroying health care reform.

All that other stuff.... I guess we'll see. :-(

[Joanne98]

39. I hope the progressives vote no. This is worse than what we got now!

[dgibby]

38. Sadly, I fear you may be right.

I hope not, but I don't think it's looking good.

Lawerence O'Donnell hasn't been very positive at all, and he has an insider's view of how Congress works. He said the other night that Progressives will go along in the end.

All most all of the liberal talking heads keep saying public option will not pass in the Senate, unless maybe it includes triggers. If that happens, the public option will be useless.

The bottom line is that both parties are owned and operated by the health insurance industry, big Pharma, and Wall Street. Anything that cuts into their profits will not fly. In fact, I believe that anything that doesn't INCREASE their profits will not fly. They are not throwing brazillions of money into fighting this to lose.

[Kansas Wyatt]

40. The Insurance, Pharmaceutical, & Health Care Industries...

Are realizing that they cannot continue robbing the American People if they are broke. So just like you are saying, they are wanting a bailout from the Federal Government, so they can continue their obscene profits for years to come at the expense of the American People.

I have been saying that Corporate America merged with the U.S. Government a long time ago, the citizens have become subjects, and we all are now in debt to the Corporate Government Store, which is much worse than the Company Store. Yet, people cannot see what is going on.

[Lagomorph]

41. I think the government wants the same deal they get with oil...

The oil companies make huge profits, but the government makes much, much more from taxes.

They're looking to milk the basic necessities for their operating capital.

We need electricity, fuel, and health care in this society. Corporations and the government want to make them into huge paydays.

As long as we have the necessities, the government is not concerned with anything else except their portfolios.

[Horse with no Name]

44. You do realize that the oil is owned by the US and we lease it

for a very few dollars to the oil companies?
Look what Chavez did in Venezuela to their capitalistic oil system--fixed the entire homeless issue in his country with the flair of a pen. Gave the money from the oil BACK to the rightful owners and wow, they all had housing!
We do no REAP enough from the taxes on big oil to survive the RAPE we receive from it.

[Lagomorph]

47. I'm just saying that the government wants to see a positve cash flow.

[Festivito]

45. Except no one knows this. Blame Bush, blame Dems, move on -- slowly.

Crock that it is.

[Orsino]

46. It's not a prediction. We *know* it's a set-up.

I'm just delighted to see my president trying to undo some of the Suck, and to make things at least a little better.

The ball is still in Congress' court.