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Yet another way to screw workers: Wal-Mart introduces "payroll cards"

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Wednesdays Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 12:40 PM
Original message
Yet another way to screw workers: Wal-Mart introduces "payroll cards"
So, Wally World is going to pay employees by adding funds to their debit cards, rather than issue checks. Read this article about this huge payroll rip-off:

-----
(snip)

Payroll cards encourage spending and discourage saving. While paychecks deposited to a bank account begin earning interest for their owner from Day 1, funds loaded onto a payroll card do not. To the contrary, cardholders often pay a monthly fee for holding the cards. And many charge for ATM withdrawals, too.

So, far from being rewarded for saving money, payroll cards encourage workers to spend their cash as fast as possible -- before the monthly fees eat it all up. I suppose a company whose business depends on getting people to spend rather than save sees nothing wrong with that concept, but I don't like the idea. I think it's a retirement killer.

As the nation's largest private employer, Wal-Mart widens a trail that many others are sure to follow. And if they do, Wal-Mart's latest idea will lead us all down a path to penury.

more...
http://www.fool.com/investing/value/2009/09/04/so-hows-wal-mart-ruining-america-this-week.aspx
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wtbymark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 12:43 PM
Response to Original message
1. "I owe my check to the company store"
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #1
16. You read my mind.
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Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #1
23. "Saint Peter don't you call me 'cause I can't go--I owe my soul to the Company store"
You beat me to it.

Hekate

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backwoodsbob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #23
45. when I was thirteen
my uncle who worked in a mine bought at the *company store* a small wood stove...one you could get for under 200 at any store...for 800 bucks.

He payed forever for that thing.

I knew even at 13 that this system was wrong
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niyad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #1
29. beat me to it
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proteus_lives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #1
44. Yup.
It's certainly not a new idea.
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TheCentepedeShoes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #1
48. Beat me too
I would sing along to that song when it came on the radio
And trust me, at the age of 6 or 7 at the time, I knew what it meant
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Deep13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 12:43 PM
Response to Original message
2. Now if there was only some way to make them spend it at the company store...
Well, I'm sure they'll think of something.
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Wednesdays Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. Easy...just issue their paychecks on Wal-Mart gift cards.
:puke:
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varelse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 07:33 PM
Response to Reply #7
55. Don't give them any ideas
:(
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FormerDittoHead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #55
79. As if they didn't think of that already. n/t
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undeterred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 12:43 PM
Response to Original message
3. I can see why some workers might prefer this option.
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baldguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 07:05 PM
Response to Reply #3
53. Only the stupid ones - or those that have no other choice.
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undeterred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #53
59. Judge other people much?
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baldguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 09:28 PM
Response to Reply #59
62. It's an observation, not a judgment.
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undeterred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 10:14 PM
Response to Reply #62
64. I observe a lot of stupid bald guys.
But I don't know if they are bald because they're stupid, or stupid because they're bald. :shrug:
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baldguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 10:39 PM
Response to Reply #64
66. Is it interesting that you seem to have loads of compassion
or understanding, even identity with people who are stupid enough to believe that these cards are a great idea - but express none for those who really know better, but are given no alternative but to take them?

:eyes:
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undeterred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 11:26 PM
Response to Reply #66
72. I believe that people should have a choice
and be allowed to make it without a total stranger telling them they are stupid. This option for being paid has been offered to me and I turned it down, but I did not consider my co-workers who accepted it to be "stupid". I have no reason to think that you "know better" about this or anything else. Your superior attitude doesn't impress me.
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LeftyMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 10:46 PM
Response to Reply #53
67. A lot of lower income people don't have/can't get bank accounts.
And those check cashing stores charge outrageous fees. For unbanked workers, this probably saves them quite a bit of money.

I would prefer that they give workers the option of direct deposit, a paper check or a debit card, rather than doing the latter exclusively.
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Ilsa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 12:44 PM
Original message
I wish those stores would spontaneously combust while the stores were closed of course. Nt
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lilymidnite Donating Member (330 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 12:44 PM
Response to Original message
4. K-Mart used to pay in cash
And you picked up your envelope at the *back* of the store.
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liberalhistorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #4
28. I remember that very well, since I worked for
K-Mart one summer in the mid-80's, during college. It was the only time I was ever paid in cash like that. Didn't really bother me then, since I had very few bills at that time and I just went and deposited it right away so I wouldn't be tempted to spend it. Not that I got too much in the first place, since the minimum wage at that time was only $3.35.
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Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #4
47. So did Kress. I worked there for awhile when I was in high school -- old-fashioned cash envelopes.
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WeDidIt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 12:44 PM
Response to Original message
5. Did Walmart ever open its own bank?
Something is getting very eery here.
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Wednesdays Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #5
11. Yes, they did! There are Arvest banks in almost every Wal-Mart around here
Edited on Fri Sep-04-09 01:10 PM by Wednesdays
Arvest Bank...happily an affiliate of Wal-Mart, Inc.

"In a way, Wal-Mart is already in the banking business through the Walton Family, which owns 96% of Arvest Bank. Arvest operates over 200 branches in several states including in some Wal-Mart stores."
http://walmartwatch.com/pages/wal_mart_2010

National Bank of Wal-Mart?
http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/Banking/Betterbanking/P109171.asp


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Sebastian Doyle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #11
17. Well, if WallyWorld has their own bank , then why not just set up w/direct deposit for all employees
Or the bank/credit union of their choice, if they have existing accounts elsewhere.
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WeDidIt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #11
19. So I guess Arvest is the one who will collect the fees for the payroll cards
Fleece your own employees.

Nice, Walmart. Stockholders will be thrilled.
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #19
83. i'd guess this ties into their long-range strategy, part of which appears to be to
take over the low end of the banking/check cashing/loan business.

best way to mint money = start a bank. i'm surprised it took them so long.
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bigendian Donating Member (956 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 12:44 PM
Response to Original message
6. Marriott has already done that.
Edited on Fri Sep-04-09 12:49 PM by bigendian
About a year ago. I don't think many took them up on it. I read the fine print and made it my mission to explain to the housekeepers just how bad an idea this is.
Even HR hated it. They knew it would take some of their job responsibilities and maybe a position in the office.
There is a fee for every transaction. A fee for ATM withdrawals. A fee for checking your balance.
Need I say more?
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Matariki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 12:45 PM
Response to Original message
8. switching all employees to direct deposit if they have bank accounts,
and if they do not, to "payroll cards."

:shrug:

I'm assuming if they don't have a bank account they're not saving anyway? They'd have to go to bank the check is drawn on and get cash for the whole thing. Couldn't they do the same thing with a 'payroll card'?
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ProgressiveProfessor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #8
25. Federal Government has had MANDATORY direct deposit for many years
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #8
36. A SAD STORY - The Powers that Be that offer these things to us
Edited on Fri Sep-04-09 02:45 PM by truedelphi
Keep saying that these things are the same as cash transactions. They are not!

Case in point: After one of the worst economic years of my life, M. and I realized we had 75 bucks on our debit card with which to have Thanksgiving. Since we weren't able due to illness to celebrate the holidays the year before, we were jubilant. Turkey with the trimmings, ice cream and pumpkin pie. And enough, surely, to have a friend come to dinner.

Then we stopped and bought twelve dollars worth of gas with the debit card. This triggered, without any warning, a fifty dollar "HOLD" on our funds. So we now had $ 75 minus twelve, minus fifty on our debit card.

My solution NOW is to cash all checks at the local Paycheck cashing service. And keep the cash in my sock drawer. I know how much money I have, and as yet the government hasn't figured out a way to let any of the Powers that Be put a hold on cash. At the check cashing place I pay three per cent, but I don't have to worry that I have some invisible entity "HOLDING" on to more of my money.

Also imagine if I had written several small checks before stopping for gas. The HOLD would have made my account a negative account, and the twelve spent at the gas station might have then ended up incurring several $ 23 insufficient check fees!


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footinmouth Donating Member (630 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 06:04 PM
Response to Reply #8
49. That's a good solution
Some people can't get bank accounts due to bad credit. I think the loaded debit card is a great help to those folks. My son gets his unemployment benefits on a card. It's working for him.
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rox63 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 12:45 PM
Response to Original message
9. A lot of low wage workers don't have bank accounts
Edited on Fri Sep-04-09 12:47 PM by rox63
My brother works for a company that does this. He just brings it to an ATM and gets the cash for it.
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LiberalAndProud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 12:46 PM
Response to Original message
10. I think this makes perfect sense.
Many of Walmart's wage dollars are spent by the end of the payday at Walmart's checkout counters. Why not just load the debit card?
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #10
39. Pls read my reply in response number 36
I imagine your life to be like mine before there was a medical bankruptcy.

You have easy and breezy encounters with your bank. It is of no concern of yours if some Direct Deposit goes through on Monday or Friday of any given week - you have a back up account that any checks written roll over to, so you never suffer the onerous Insufficient check fees triggered when the banks somehow cannot process your Direct Depostits at the moment they are supposed to.

Then you also are probably also unaware of all the tricks that get played on the lower incomed. Those whose bank balances total less than $ 100 at any given time. There is no other word for having a HOLD on a debit card - it is just a trick. And you are not even warned - you find out the next time you make a transaction at a store that two thirds of your savings have gone up in a puff of smoke called a HOLD.

Anyway, long life and much prosperity to you. Just don't ever ever suffer a medical bankrupcy and lose that cushion that stands between you and the devils of modern day banking.



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strategery blunder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 12:47 PM
Response to Original message
12. That's what cash-over transactions are for.
Not that I agree with what mao-mart is doing (I think they are the true Great Satan :grr:), but those fees are easily avoided with the following procedure:

1. Walk into grocery store (even mao-mart would work for this).
2. Purchase a staple.
3. Whip out payroll card.
4. Specify cash back.

Congratulations, you've just cashed your payroll card for less than the ATM fee, and received something you needed anyway in return. You can then do with the cash as you wish, including stuffing it in a bank account. :)

Sadly, I doubt all mao-mart workers would know of this loophole. :(

If those cards are wired to not give cash back as debit cards do, now that's just evil. :grr:
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TreasonousBastard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 12:48 PM
Response to Original message
13. What checking accounts pay interest for low-wage...
employees? The options are direct deposit to a bank account or a debit card, and there is no mention whether or not the card in question has a fee attached.

How does a debit card discourage retirement or encourage spending, as the article claims, when a $300 paycheck will be cashed and spent anyway?

(Tempest, meet teapot...)

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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #13
38. checking interest these days is 0.3500%..and there are minimum balance requirements
:(
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imdjh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 12:49 PM
Response to Original message
14. It would be interesting to know what percentage of Walmart employees use Amscot and similar
I wonder how many of Walmart's employees cash their check in the store for that matter.

Lots of people do not have checking accounts these days. Back in the 1990's banks tried charging fees, which led to overdrafts, and overdrafts which led to fees, and then stores started electronic processing which got a lot of account closed because people still wrote a check to the grocery store expecting it to take two days to clear, etc.... Then everyone from finance companies to Family Courts got access to people's checking accounts, and now there are just a whole unch of people in the cash only system, and they pay a check cashing fee for belonging to that club.

None of which is the fault of the bank per se, but lots of people don't have checking accounts.
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gmoney Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #14
20. I'd guess it's mainly an option for those who don't have checking accounts for direct deposit
Rather than WM printing loads of paper checks that employees have to take to some usurious check cashing joint, where they'll pay a steep percentage of the face value just to cash the check, this would be more convenient for both parties.

I'm guessing if these cards do have some sort of fees, they're lower than check cashing joints or "payday lenders" charge, plus funds would be available immediately.

I kind of think it's a non-issue, unless WM is doing away with the direct deposit option entirely, or they get to the point of paying in company scrip.

Also, I think the low wages at WM would be what "disincentivizes" savings among these employees, not the manner in which they get paid.

But yeah, if it's just a matter of swiping the card, I'm sure that encourages impulse spending and not being able to keep track of how much is in the account. Also wonder how many landlords accept debit cards?
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The Straight Story Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 12:49 PM
Response to Original message
15. I get my unemployment this way (nt)
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Berry Cool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #15
30. Many states do offer that. But they also offer direct deposit
to your bank account.
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sinkingfeeling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 12:56 PM
Response to Original message
18. I also resent this pre-loaded cards being given to those collecting child support and government
assistance. The mother of my son's child, will use her child support to buy items she could never afford on her own. Never gives a thought that she could be saving something for future education or that the money is really for the kid.
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BlueIris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 08:16 PM
Response to Reply #18
56. The money is for the child AND the mother who parents said child.
Edited on Fri Sep-04-09 08:17 PM by BlueIris
Or did you think the child was raising him or herself?
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LeftyMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 10:57 PM
Response to Reply #18
71. Presumably the rent for the house your child lives in and payment, gas, insurance and upkeep
for the car that takes your kid to school come out of "her" money, no?

Unless she's required to document expenses (Social Security used to require this for money given to dependents) then there's no need to separate child support money from the rest of the familial budget. Assuming your kid isn't doing without, quit your bitching because your ex isn't living like a pauper. If the kid is doing without, talk to the judge.

In the meantime, there's nothing stopping you from starting a savings account for your child's education yourself.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 01:00 PM
Response to Original message
21. This isn't new. Back in the sixties one of my employers forced us to open
checking accounts in a designated bank of their choosing where they deposited our checks. So even if you didn't like the bank, which had excessive fees compared to other banks, you had to have an account there and they fined you for not keeping a minimum balance. Many people couldn't because they were living from paycheck to paycheck so they were always paying fines. Finally some of the departments that were unionized put a stop to it. We didn't have debit cards back then but the principle was the same.
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Greyskye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 01:01 PM
Response to Original message
22. Way to go, corporate America.
Just when I thought I couldn't loath Wal-Mart any more.

This is a horrible practice. I assume that you would be able to take it to your bank and 'deposit' it, yes? Please?

What a step backwards. If you have direct deposit, you can get a no-fee checking account with unlimited ATM use. This is simply one more step in building a fee and interest based revenue tsunami.

Loss of accrued interest? Check.
New fees for your formerly free checking? Check.
New fees for ATM withdrawals? Check.
New fee for your new payroll card? Check.
Disincentives for saving money? Check.

Way to go, corporate America. We could use a little KY next time though, please.
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ProgressiveProfessor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 01:05 PM
Response to Original message
24. The OP is somewhat disengenuous
WalMart is going to EFT. Direct deposit to a bank account or a debit card. Employee has the choice. Looking for a serious issue here.
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Wednesdays Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. Informed choice?
:shrug:

Yeah, the workers have a "choice"...which benefits Wal-Mart nicely.


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Toasterlad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #24
27. Agreed. The Employee Has the Option to Set Up a Bank Account and Get Direct Deposit.
I fail to see how this policy makes Wal-Mart bad.

Note I said THIS policy.
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Berry Cool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #27
31. As long as they still have the option of direct deposit, I don't see what the issue is.
The sad part is the number of Wally World employees without enough money to HAVE a bank account.
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #24
37. The issue, as I see it, is this
Low-wage people often have no bank accounts and use check-cashing places now, so for THEM, this may be a "good option". There are lots of people who do not have savings accounts, because they don't even make enough to live on, let alone, to save.

Even for those people, this can create a problem though, since they also need to pay rent, utilities, phone bills, etc., so having the debit card will still mean they have to pay to buy money orders, or travel around in person to pay with that debit card. There are also places that will not accept debit cards without the visa/mastercard logo on them, for all their services, so if it's like a walmart giftcard-debit card, they may have resistance.
Eventually, I see a lot of places doing this, since it cuts down on the paper-handling aspect of payroll...more jobs will be going away, as this gets more common..
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #24
41. Low income employees may not have a choice. They may have
Gotten in trouble with a bank account years earlier and now have an owed balance to the banking world such that no bank will touch them with an account.

Before this trick of WalMarts, a person could take their paycheck to the bank that issued it, and have it cashed. Or got to a paycheck cashing service.

Pls read response thirty six.
'

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ipaint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 02:28 PM
Response to Original message
32. Most of these cards allow for a 1 time free withdrawal.
There are monthly fees on most cards and no consumer protection laws as there are on debit/credit cards. It's cheaper for the company, of course the savings are pocketed by the higher-ups and not passed on in pay or better benefits and it's one step closer to a cashless, fully traceable society.

Given most of the country including the well paid and uber-educated upper middle class is withdrawing from the mother of all credit binges, the cards are also much easier to burn through for the folks who get them- mostly low wage or part time service industry employees.
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no limit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 02:28 PM
Response to Original message
33. Nothing really wrong with this
they can still get direct deposit and they can write themselves checks from these cards at no fee. They can also get cash from walmart registers whenever they wish.

If I had to bet money I would guess most lower wage employees of walmart will like this transition.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 08:18 PM
Response to Reply #33
57. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Joe the Revelator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #57
58. Instead of going all Glenn Beck and accusing people of being closet freepers, why don't you...
actually educate yourself on the issue. The employee has the option to either have it DIRECT DEPOSITED into a bank account, or loaded onto an ATM card.


Please Glenn, tell me whats wrong with that...
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Horse with no Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 02:32 PM
Response to Original message
34. Lowe's does this. n/t
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reflection Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 02:33 PM
Response to Original message
35. They offer direct deposit also
and they're not using as much paper, which is a good thing. I'm no Wal-Mart sycophant, but what's the big deal here?
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etherealtruth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 09:23 PM
Response to Reply #35
60. Much ado about nothing
There are many legitimate complaints about Walmart. This is not one of them
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madmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 02:56 PM
Response to Original message
40. Meijer's did/does this. I worked there over 5 years ago and they did it then.
Keep trying walmart haters.
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FarCenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 03:46 PM
Response to Original message
42. Checks are on the way out
They are costly to produce and distribute to employees, expensive for employees to cash, expensive for banks to process, and they are very suseptible to various frauds.

Everything will go to electronic funds transfers or credit/debit/prepaid cards.
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earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 04:12 PM
Response to Original message
43. WTF?! Since when did Walmart start issuing it's own currency?!
Is this even legal?! :grr:
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Obamanaut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 04:36 PM
Response to Original message
46. This is not new. One of the first part time jobs I had after retiring from
the Navy in 1988 was with K Mart. They paid in cash, and told me the reason was the employees handled merchandise all week, and when they got their pay in cash would generally buy some of that merchandise with a chunk of that cash.
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jmowreader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 06:34 PM
Response to Original message
50. The only question I have is, what took them so long?
Both Lowe's and Home Depot have done this for a while, and I'm sure most of the other big boxes are doing the same thing. You get the choice of direct deposit or a Visa-branded debit card--which is better than having cash for some things. IIRC Home Depot associates who get the preloaded debit card get two free ATM transactions per pay period. A lot of rental agents have credit card terminals, so they can take rent directly off the cards. Most car dealers can accept a card transaction. In the long list of evil shit Walmart has perpetrated, this isn't bad--although I'm certain this thread is sure to be deluged with "this hurts the poor" comments. Well shit, everything hurts the poor. BEING FUCKING POOR hurts the poor more than anything. And until we can figure out how to get the poor the kinds of jobs they need to no longer be poor, the spiral will continue.
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buzzycrumbhunger Donating Member (793 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 06:42 PM
Response to Original message
51. They're not the first
My daughter's first job was with some cracker fast food place called Checkers, and that's how they did their payroll, too. She was never able to transfer the money to her savings account like they promised, couldn't access it from an ATM just anywhere (and the place that she could was hit and miss), and in the end, lost the last few dollars because it was impossible to withdraw a specific amount, only increments that an ATM could dispense.

The fact WM has figured out how to add fees to such an already-fucked-up system is no surprise at all.
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 06:47 PM
Response to Original message
52. it's just like the miners working for the company store...
sixteen tons

You load sixteen tons, what do you get
Another day older and deeper in debt
Saint Peter don't you call me 'cause I can't go
I owe my soul to the company store

http://www.cowboylyrics.com/lyrics/classic-country/sixteen-tons---tennessee-ernie-ford-14930.html
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ipaint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 07:28 PM
Response to Reply #52
54. Yes it is.
I use cash predominately. I keep my debit card purchases to a bare minimum. It really isn't anybody's business what I buy and my collected info will not be fed to companies so they can advertise to me in more efficient i.e. manipulative ways.

Just like the credit card companies handing out cards like candy to people who can't pay them back, walmart knows people will spend more than they can afford much easier with a debit card than cash. They've studied this inside and out and if they can con just a bit more out of folks they will in a heartbeat.

The pull yourself up by yourself bootstrap folks here and on the right have no clue if they think the majority of low paid uninsured employees are any collective match for a multi billion dollar corporation working on being the only retail choice left standing for the working class and working poor once we all understand this is a permanent recession/depression.

It's all about creating an endless supply of wage slaves.

Give them an inch and they will eventually take 5 miles if you are lucky. Let them control your access to your earned pay and it will only be a matter of time before they start nickel and diming fees out of folks without a penny to spare. We have no government regulatory control over corporations once we hand them power.


US employers commonly cheat low-income workers
Wed, 02 Sep 2009 14:31:39 GMT


US employers are shortchanging the minimum-wage workers with 68 percent of such workers reporting at least one case of pay-related violations in a previous work week.

“We were all surprised by the high prevalence rate," said Ruth Milkman, a sociology professor at the University of California, Los Angeles (UCLA) and one of the authors of a new study examining wage-law violations, quoted in a Wednesday New York Times article.

The study maintains that a typical worker had lost $51 the previous week through wage violations, out of an average weekly earnings of $339, amounting to a 15 percent loss in pay.

http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=105082§ionid=3510203


It isn't about whether it's easier or cheaper to hand out debit cards, it's about the loss of control which opens folks up to guaranteed future abuse from companies. Abuse is already rampant among the low paid why give the corporations another avenue to use and abuse workers.
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ProgressiveProfessor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 09:28 PM
Response to Reply #54
63. Epic fail...
Your attempt to change the issue from Electronic Funds Transfer is an epic fail. This has nothing to do with wage cheating by employers.

State and Federal Government have been doing this for several decades, and yes, EFT is mandatory for them.

The real problem many are overlooking is that without a bank account, its hard to get a check cashed except at a check cashing service when charges serious fees.

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ipaint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 07:55 AM
Response to Reply #63
73. For low paid workers private employers can't be trusted.
Which I illustrated with that news article.
If someone chooses to receive their pay via debit card that is up to them but mandatory with no worker/consumer protections, no.
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ProgressiveProfessor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 09:34 AM
Response to Reply #73
75. Workers can be cheated if they are paid via check, cash, or EFT
Its also not the subject of this thread
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ipaint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 09:55 AM
Response to Reply #75
77. The pitfalls of payroll cards for the low paid certainly is the subject
and I illustrated those cons further in my post below this one. Including the potential excessive fees and the importance of questioning the financial stability of the companies who issue them.

Your choice if you don't think that educating low paid workers as to the real choices and potential consequences and how to protect themselves is more important than maintaining the belief that the cards are virtually harmless. Considering the visa and mastercard logo's on them I would think the pull yourself up by the bootstrap crowd would be all for education that leads to personal responsibility. Guess not.
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ProgressiveProfessor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 09:25 PM
Response to Reply #52
61. No its not, its one option for electronic funds transfer and nothing more
Federal employees have had this mandated for many years
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scrinmaster Donating Member (563 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 10:18 PM
Response to Original message
65. If they just gave out checks,
DU'ers would still be bitching about evil Walmart forcing them to go to check cashing places.
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SmileyRose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 10:47 PM
Response to Original message
68. old news - and it's actually a good thing.
Edited on Fri Sep-04-09 10:59 PM by SmileyRose
They still have the option of direct deposit. For those who do not have a bank account having the money loaded onto a debit card is MUCH cheaper than the check cashing places plus the cost of paying for bill payments or cashier's checks to pay bills. The purpose of the debit card is to give those workers who do not have bank accounts MORE money in their pockets. No one is forced into it, it's an option.

Around my neck of the woods the Walmart workers who use this option love it. One of the cashiers told me it's cut her expenses down by 10 bucks a week. And you know what? $40 a month is a hell of lot of money when one lives paycheck to paycheck.

Edit to add most of the "big box" stores around here do the same thing.
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Hugin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 10:50 PM
Response to Reply #68
70. n/t
Edited on Fri Sep-04-09 10:52 PM by Hugin
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ipaint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 08:17 AM
Response to Reply #68
74. Questions for Employees to Ask About Payroll Cards
"How financially solid is the payroll card issuer? If the payroll card company is not a bank, has my employer checked to be sure that the payroll card company is financially sound? Not all payroll cards are issued by banks. Your employer needs to check out the financial soundness of any company that will be holding your pay before you withdraw the pay using the card.

Do I have to pay any fees? There are many kinds of fees to watch out for. Fees may include:

• a monthly fee,
• a fee after a certain number of transactions,
• an fee for using the card at an ATM,
• a surcharge to the ATM owner,
• a POS fee for use at a point of sale such as a store,
• a fee for not using the card for a period of time (inactivity fee),
• a fee to replace the card,
• a fee when funds are put on the card account (load fee), and
• a fee to get your money back by check if you don’t like the card.

One payroll card provider even charges consumers a fee per minute to speak to customer service.
Fees make a big difference in whether or not a payroll card is a good deal for you. A payroll card usually will cost less than using a check casher. Payroll cards often cost more than bank accounts. Many payroll cards offer just one ATM withdrawal per pay period without a fee. Some employers pay all or part of the payroll card fees. Your employer also can negotiate with the payroll card company to restrict the number and type of fees. Ask your employer for a list of all fees before you agree to a payroll card.

Can the card be overdrawn? Some payroll cards are set up so that they can’t be used if there is no money in the account. Other cards might let you take out more money than you have been paid, but then charge a high fee, called an overdraft fee. If you don’t keep careful track of your balance, you might spend or withdraw more money than you have. In that case, the card issuer could hit you with an overdraft fee of $29 or more."

http://www.consumersunion.org/pub/core_financial_services/000920.html

Most folks who receive their low wages in the form of a debit card do not realize just how much they have given up until a problem arises. It can get quite expensive for the working class and working poor.
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Hugin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 10:48 PM
Response to Original message
69. I've got to hand it to Wal-Mart... Choosing a sphincter as their logo was a stroke of genius.
:rofl:
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alarimer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 09:43 AM
Response to Original message
76. Walmart needs to be investigated by the Dept of Labor for this.
Edited on Sat Sep-05-09 09:46 AM by alarimer
How can you write a rent check with this payroll card?

The next thing is to only allow them to be used at Walmarts.

I guess there are a lot of people who do not have bank accounts. Still I am uncomfortable with Walmart doing this;it's probably going to end up fleecing a lot of their low-income employees, people who may not be savvy enough to notice.
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ProgressiveProfessor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #76
78. Did you read the article or understand the other posts?
WalMart is going to mandate Electronic Funds Transfer for its employees. It normally goes to your bank account. If you do not have one, they will put it on a debit card.

Most companies REQUIRE EFT, including all levels of government. WalMart is actually catching up to the rest of the US by doing this.
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TwixVoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 11:31 AM
Response to Original message
80. Visa Payroll
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Balbus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 11:38 AM
Response to Original message
81. Actually sounds like a good idea.
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varelse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 02:10 PM
Response to Original message
82. OK, I hate WalMart as much as any red-blooded member of the "radical left"
Edited on Sat Sep-05-09 02:11 PM by varelse
However, after reading this article, it looks like payroll cards are actually only being issued to those who decline direct depost, and that First Data Corp. (not WalMart's own financial services branch) will be handling the debit cards.

Some other highlights from the WSJ article:

With regard to the objections based on service fees imposed on workers who opt out of Direct Deposit to a bank of their choice:
MasterCard, however, said First Data Corp., which will process the transactions, agreed with Wal-Mart to offer some of the lowest fees available among such cards, and noted that many workers already pay fees for cashing checks. It said employees' first ATM transaction a pay period is free; subsequent ones cost $2 each.


Other services offered at no charge:
Workers will be able to use the cards wherever debit cards are accepted, including at ATMs, and will be able to withdraw cash without fees at Wal-Mart and Sam's club registers.


It's not clear if there are check fees charged for this but it does look like a nice service for workers who don't have checking accounts of their own:
In addition, Wal-Mart workers can receive checkbooks that they can use to write checks on their debit accounts to baby sitters and others who don't accept MasterCard. The workers will still be able to access electronic pay stubs if needed.


(sigh, I didn't read my own quote - electronic pay stubs are provided - but can all WalMart workers get online to check those?)
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xultar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 02:29 PM
Response to Original message
84. Poor people without checking accounts can save money. Many school districts
are moving this route, and it saves paper.
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PatSeg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 02:43 PM
Response to Original message
85. This reminds me of a job had many years ago
I'd taken a temporary, part time job at K-Mart and was surprised to see they paid salaries in cash. After being paid, employees walked downstairs, through the store past all the items they'd seen all week. Being they didn't have to go to the bank and deposit their checks, they were more inclined to spend their money right there in the store they worked at. It was a win-win for the store. A good percentage of the money they paid out was sucked right back into the store.

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