Upset By the Bullshit

[erpowers]

I think it is possible that some of what I going to say will upset many people, but I am upset about some of the bullshit that is being said about the Imus and Duke cases. First, can anyone tell me how a group of African-American girls who did nothing wrong is the same as a group of white guys who had to get investigated and charged in a rape trail after they were accused. Why should any black person have to apologize to the guys involved in the Duke rape case?

In the Rutgers case there was never any proof that any of the girls were hos or that they were thugs. I do not know of any cases in which the girls did not have to go to trial for beating up a gay person with the stipulation that they do not get in any more trouble. I do not know of any reports from the other students on the Rutgers campus stating that the girls had been know to have crazy parties were they got drunk and shouted racist remarks at white people. In addition, I have not heard reports of the girls having parties were they hired male strippers. Mainly in my opinion there was no reason for the comments made by Don Imus.

However, in the Duke case one of the former defendants wrote an email in which he claimed he wanted to rape a stripper, skin her, and then jack off. Another defendant had been accused of beating up a gay person, but since he was going to Duke University he was allowed to have the case set aside providing he did not get into any more trouble. In addition, the Duke Lacrosse team had a history of crazy parties in which they got drunk and then shouted out racist remarks. Please lets not make these guys out to be victims. They went through the legal process just like anybody else has to go through. At least at the beginning there was reason to believe the men may have done something wrong. There are many black men in jail today who were tried and convicted on less evidence than was given in the Duke Lacrosse case.

Yes, I am happy that Duke kicked out Reed Seligmen. I did not think Seligmen should be kicked out because he was accused of rape I thought he should be kicked out because of the email he wrote. I thought a school like Duke should not allow students who write such things to go to the school. In addition, I am happy they fired the coach of the Lacrosse team. Not because some of his players were accused of rape, but because he allowed his players to act like animals on many occasions. I think he could have done a better job.

Finally, the Rutgers girls will be okay, but so will the Duke guys. Seligmen has applied to Harvard and is being recruited by Brown. So it seems to me that he fell up since Harvard and Brown are both better schools than Duke. In addition, the other guy who had a Wall Street job lined up for him will probably get that job now. The one who was facing trial for beating the gay person will possibly have the case set aside again and will be accepted to another school if he does not decide to go back to Duke, which offered to accept each of the players who had not graduated.

I do not feel very bad for the Duke guys partly because I think some of their actions helped to allow this to happen. However, what did African-Americans do to the Duke guys? I do not know of any African-Americans who screamed out racist remarks toward the young men. As far as I know the only thing African-Americans asked for was a fair trial and to not have a group of white kids get away with rape(if they did it) just because they were white, had money, and went to a prestigious university. So what did African-American people do that requires an apology?

[Buzz Clik]

1. The ushering in of the new Victorian era. (puke)

This must be the tenth thread saying the same thing: if you have a history or partying or if you associate yourself with those who do, you might be charged with a crime you never committed. Your career might be destroyed after false accusations -- and that's okay because immorality is a sin and should be a crime.

This OP is offensive, not to mention poorly informed. The facts are muddled, and some are wrong.

It's clear you have some bizarre moral agenda that would make the Christian Coalition quite proud. Personally, I tend to favor accusing and indicting for crimes that were committed, not for engaging in legal behavior that some might find outside their moral boundaries.

[Captain Hilts]

2. Agree, Buzz Click. nt

[erpowers]

11. No New Victorian Era

I am not looking for a new Victorian era. I am just wondering why African-American are being asked to apologize because a group of white guys were invesigated for a crime and charged with a crime after being accused of a crime. African-American people did not say anything horrible about the Duke guys. They just asked for a fair trial. Don Imus decided to say something horrible about a group of females he had never met and knew nothing about. People are now asking why African-Americans should have to apologize to the Duke guys just because they wanted an apology from Don Imus.

Yes, I think there was more reason to go after the Duke guys than the Rutgers girls. No one is saying they guys should have been charged and indicted for the crime because of "behavior outside their moral boundaries". People are saying stop treating them like little angels who never did anything wrong in their lives. It is not like these guys were dragged out of their beds even without someone accusing them of a crime. Someone accused them of a crime and they went through the system. There is no reason for African-Americans to be asked to apologize for anything.

[Buzz Clik]

12. Why are you putting that up for general discussion?

Why not ask whatever idiot made that comment?

But my advice would be to make the question simple and to the point: you don't know a damned thing about the case, and your ignorance has already embarrassed you.

[Buzz Clik]

3. Let me ask you a question:

... about this quote of yours:

However, in the Duke case one of the former defendants wrote an email in which he claimed he wanted to rape a stripper, skin her, and then jack off....

Yes, I am happy that Duke kicked out Reed Seligmen. I did not think Seligmen should be kicked out because he was accused of rape I thought he should be kicked out because of the email he wrote.

So, if you found out that Seligman did not write that email, would you openly apologize for shooting off your mouth and gross ignorance? And if disciplinary measures were taken against against the athlete who wrote that email, would apologize for that, too?

I doubt it.

Here's a suggestion: research your subject before you make this kind of ridiculous and asinine comments. Your argument has been shot to hell.

[apnu]

4. A possible explanation.

The common element (at least from the Repukes who bring up the Duke nonsense) is the involvement of Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton. the reason they bring it up is a pathetic attempt to call them hypocrites. AFAIK, Jesse hasn't jumped in this like Sharpton, but I could be wrong I'm only half following the Imus flap because I don't really care what happens to that jackass. So if Jackson did get involved, please correct me.

But yeah, I think you're right, its bullshit. This stuff always is. Its just red meat for the MSM to blather on about so they can avoid talking about real events in the real world.

[Warren Stupidity]

5. The behavior problem in the Duke case was Nifong.

DA gone wild is a bad thing, and he is the one who should be doing the apologizing. The people wrongly accused of this crime were wrongly accused of a crime. That is sort of obvious isn't it? Perhaps you do not understand just how painful and expensive being caught up in the justice system is, how even if you do not end up in jail, even if you are completely exonerated, as these people were, your life has been pretty well wrecked in the meanwhile.

Basically there is no linkage between these episodes of misbehavior. As others have pointed out, the attempt to tie this together with Imus is the usual equivocation gambit. Don't fall for it, it is bullshit.

[EstimatedProphet]

6. I agree

The Duke students were found innocent. That's the end of it.

[erpowers]

7. Partly My Point

That was partly my point. I am upset that people are trying to join the case of the Rutgers girls to the case of the Duke guys. In one case their was a least some reason to pursue a case in the other a guy said something he should not have said. I do not see why some people are saying black people should apologize to the Duke players just because they wanted Imus to apologize for what he said. I did not see how people could join the two together.

[dysfunctional press]

8. "...Please lets not make these guys out to be victims."...????

okay then- why don't YOU trade places with one of them, and go through what they were put through?

just because YOU don't like someone doesn't make them any less of a victim.

sheeesh....:eyes: where do these people come from?

[flying_monkeys]

9. But the were, in fact, victims.

They were falsely accused. No matter what other actions they ever did in their lives, they *were* victims of false arrest - - whether you agree or not.


(Why do people like to blame the victim? Gah.)

[valerief]

10. Did you hear about the missing Rove emails? You know, real news? nt

[Buzz Clik]

13. Did you hear about the "ignore" feature for threads?

How about the self discipline of simply not clicking on the link?

[ItNerd4life]

14. You bring up a good question, here's my thoughts on it

If the Duke players had been black, as soon as the case came out everybody would have been yelling that the prosecutor was only going after them because he was racist.

However, the media immediately assumed they were guilty because they were white. If they had been black and the media has acted the same way, it would have been racist.

I agree that the Rutgers players should not have been called hos and thugs. I agree that the Duke players should not have been called rapists.

I don't think people are calling for the African-American people to apologize, I think they are going after the media who immediately called them rapists and said they were guilty until proven innocent.

Maybe I'm wrong but I would be curious to your thoughts on the question that comes to my mind. If the Duke players had been black, would Duke university have cancelled the entire season because of the alleged rape? Or did they only cancel the season because it was mostly white people on the team?

[erpowers]

15. Yes

I do not think the rape charges had very much to do with the season being cancelled. I think the fact that the team was allowed to do the things it had done before the charges are the real reason the team season was cancelled. I think if the team had not had a reputation for bad behavior at the campus the season would have been allowed to continue. If black kid had done the same things as the Duke kids then yes the season would have been cancelled. In addition, people are asking the African-American people to apologize to the players. I have yet to see one person ask to media to apologize to the players.