'Christian' Doctors refusing to treat people they don't like

[ck4829]

While in some states, the Right is attempting to establish so-called “conscience clauses” to allow pharmacists to refuse to fill prescriptions for contraceptives, one case in California finds a medical clinic – and the Religious Right – attempting to expand that principle to “conscience”-based discrimination against patients, rather than the services they seek. Doctors at an infertility clinic north of San Diego refused to provide a woman with artificial insemination services, citing their religious conviction against birth out of wedlock – and, according to the woman, citing her sexual orientation. California law prohibits discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation.

The right-wing Alliance Defense Fund, which is representing the clinic, claims this is a case about the right “to exercise your faith as a Christian.” The woman’s lawyer warned that “The next case may be about whether a doctor is willing to do a pap smear” for a lesbian.”

Other right-wing groups have filed amicus briefs in the case. Peter Ferrara of the American Civil Rights Union defended the doctor’s decision because, he said, it was based on “a commonly held view, well grounded in Christian tradition.” Brian Rooney of the Thomas More Law Center warned that the case “smacks of Nazi Germany when Hitler forced doctors to do diabolical acts that were like this.”

http://www.rightwingwatch.org/2007/04/doctors_conscie.html

But, it's only the Muslim Taxi drivers that we should be worried about though, right?

[ccpup]

1. goody!

does this mean that businesses can choose not to help Right Wing Christians?

[rock]

8. And aetheist doctors can refuse to treat the Christians

OK, fair deal.

[nebenaube]

33. big problem there...

How many secular hospitals do you see around the country?

[Breeze54]

35. Huge problem!!!

Hospitals and Religious Restrictions

http://www.mergerwatch.org/hospital_mergers.html



snip-->

Religiously-Sponsored Hospitals

Religiously-sponsored hospitals have long played an important role in the American health care system. Many of these sectarian hospitals were founded to serve the medical and spiritual needs of members of a particular faith, including patients and physicians who may have experienced discrimination at other hospitals.

Since the mid-20th century, however, religiously-sponsored hospitals have served an increasingly diverse population of patients and employ staff who are often not of the same faith as the hospital sponsors. Because many religious hospitals continue to restrict the services they provide, based on doctrine, there is a growing conflict across the United States between these hospitals and the diverse communities they serve. Patients may have no other convenient choice for hospital care, or may be restricted in where they can seek care because of managed care rules requiring members to use “in-network” hospitals.

Religious restrictions can interfere with the doctor-patient relationship by effectively “gagging” the physician and preventing him/her from describing treatment options that are not permitted at the hospital. Moreover, physicians may be prohibited from providing disapproved services, even in cases of emergency, such as treatment of ectopic pregnancy or the offering of emergency contraception to rape victims.

About 13 percent of all community hospitals in the United States are religiously-affiliated and they contain 18 percent of all the hospital beds, since they tend to be larger than average.

To learn more, see “No Strings Attached: Religiously-Sponsored Hospitals in the United States”.

Case Histories

There have been more than 100 mergers between religious and secular (non-religious) hospitals since 1990. In many of the earliest cases, reproductive health services were lost when restrictive religious rules were imposed at the nonsectarian hospital as a condition of the merger.

Since 1997, the MergerWatch Project has been working with community-based coalitions across the country to prevent the loss of reproductive health services when religious and secular hospitals propose to merge.

More at link.....

[ComerPerro]

11. That's how I see it, like the whole pharmacists / birth control mess

There is no reason a doctor or pharmacist should have to help a conservative or Republican, right? Becuase, after all, they live immoral lifestyles, and if the person providing treatment doesn't approve, then they don't have to provide treatment.

LOL

[Breeze54]

17. I think you're on to something!

:sarcasm: to follow: (I have had no sleep or coffee, so a little silly) ;)

Customer service:
"Good Morning. How can I help you?"

Customer:
"I was driving to the Christian Evangelical Dominionists Annual Lesbian-Bashing Hootananny
and I seem to have a flat tire. Must have driven over a dyke, uh, I mean spike.
You know how sharp they are! Could you send a tow truck?

Customer Service:
"Excuse me, did you say Evangelical Dominionists? I'm sorry,but it's our policy not
to fix flats or do any repairs for Evangelical Christians or Mysoginists. That's just
our policy. It just wouldn't be the Atheist thing to do and is against our beliefs.
We just don't believe in supporting that lifestyle.

*click*

;) Hope she comes out of this, laughing all the way to the bank!

[havocmom]

28. Fundy xian neighbor with uncontrolled kids, one of whom plays with matches...

wonder about fire departments refusing to send people to risk their lives putting out fires started by bad boys who CHOSE to start fires.... Think my fundy neighbor would support their 'right' not to serve people they don't personally approve of? ;)

[michaelwb]

29. Not defending, just pointing out

But we've already had that. There was a discussion here a while back about a Credit Union refusing to do business a Xian right wing group. But I view that as different kettle of fish from refusing medical treatments or services.

Of course, I think it's equally reprehensible to refuse medical treatments and service in the name of profitability, but that seems disturbingly accepted in the media and society at large.

[CrispyQ]

34. Bingo.

"...I think it's equally reprehensible to refuse medical treatments and service in the name of profitability, but that seems disturbingly accepted in the media and society at large."

[CrazyOrangeCat]

2. K&R

[Flubadubya]

3. Ugh... that's pretty nasty

but I don't think I would want to be treated by a jerk-ass doctor like that in the first place. Maybe these self-righteous, so-called doctors, ought to be boycotted. There are plenty of other good ones around. We don't need to be lining their pockets anyway. :puke:

[youngdem]

4. Because refusing treatment based on judging people is clearly what Jesus would have done

Religion is often simply an excuse for bigotry that someone cannot otherwise justify.

Religion provides the credibility that one needs to cling to the wrong ways of the past with a straight face and even righteous indignation.

Doctors should be required to treat patients who come to them, and if they don't, they should lose their license. Same thing for pharmacists.

[Canuckistanian]

25. Jesus treated the lepers to show that compassion has no bounds

These people are not Christians. They're Old Testament Zealots.

How can you profess to be a "follower of Christ", when you live every day of your life contradicting what Jesus preached?

[formercia]

5. Calling Doktor Mengele. n/t

[Rosemary2205]

6. While distasteful

I really have to take exception to the characterization that these doctors wanting to choose who they treat are right up there with the Nazi doctors that performed cruel and inhuman experiments on people.

As for these pharmacists and doctors, I say pass laws that require them to provide lifesaving treatment until that doctor contacts another more amiable doctor to take over care. Pharmacists should be required to inform a patient where they CAN get the prescription filled and should be required to contact that other pharmacist to make sure it is in stock before sending women on a wild goose chase. Short of that I say let them follow their little twisted hearts and choose their patients. Shine a bright light on the fact that they do this and then let the marketplace decide their fate. Hammer the hospitals or drug stores that allow these freaks to use their facilities. Or the insurance companies that contract with them etc etc.

Just my very humble opinion. I think letting their own customers, employers and business associates teach these freeps a lesson is much more productive than the government forcing them.

[Breeze54]

19. Rosemary, Rosemary, Rosemary....

"Pharmacists should be required to inform a patient where they CAN get the prescription filled??"

"Pass laws that require them to provide lifesaving treatment??"

:eyes:

Ah, don't doctors and pharmacists take an oath, Rosemary?

That reminds me of a story about a black man who arrived at an ER, in desperate need
of emergency care and the hospital refused to help him because he was black. The poor
man was left on the street outside the hospital to bleed to death. That man, was a
brilliant surgeon, who had pioneered the method of storing blood as plasma! The storage
of blood in plasma form has saved untold lives since Drew brought the process forward
in the thirties, and he created the model for blood and plasma storage that is used by
the Red Cross even today. His importance to modern medicine cannot be overstated.

But he was denied access, as the story goes, due to prejudice!!
Just the same as what these so-called doctors are doing today!

I've read that it's not a true story and that it is a true story; so I'm not sure
at this point. But whether it is or it isn't, doctors take an oath and they should
be made to honor that or get out of the business. period! :grr:

[Rosemary2205]

42. There is no standard oath.

what oath a doctor takes, or if they take one at all, depends upon where they get their medical degree. Doctor's are bound by the laws of the state to practice medicine and those who join the American medical association must follow their code of ethics - which can be found here - http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/category/2512.html

This code of ethics can be interpreted many ways - but it does say plainly - "A physician shall, in the provision of appropriate patient care, except in emergencies, be free to choose whom to serve, with whom to associate, and the environment in which to provide medical care."

I am not aware of any oath or ethics requirement that requires a freeper doctor to do in-vitro on a lesbian. And IMHO equating this to letting a black man bleed to death outside a hospital just does not work.

BTW - in spite of the law changes that have gone into effect since the end of jim crow type laws, hospitals are still dumping patients out on the streets. Mostly homeless patients. This is hardly limited to freeper doctors or freeper hospitals.

My 2 cents for what it's worth.

[Solon]

60. Problem is that they are refusing service to someone under a PROTECTED CLASS!

At least in California, where you cannot discriminate based on sexual orientation. Hence, the oath doesn't apply, if they give infertility help to straight, married couples, they cannot discriminate against another person based on their "lifestyle".

The Hippocratic oath doesn't even apply in this case, the law is the law, and this clinic can get into serious legal trouble.

[Rosemary2205]

61. Exactly

I stumbled all over it but you said it much better. My point all along was that those upset because "doctors take an oath" have it all wrong - it's the laws of the state that govern, not an oath. Thanks for helping me along. :)

[Breeze54]

62. Perhaps I should have said "ethics" or

used the term Hypocrites!!

[lligrd]

7. How Christian of them

:sarcasm:

[madrchsod]

9. refusing to treat a patient is against their oath

if they chose to violate their oath as a doctor then they lose their license to practice. maybe there is a special place in hell for these good "Christian" doctors

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

21. Exactly, if this is happening it sounds like a malpratice suit. n/t

MKJ

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

10. This isn't Christianity as I know it

This is sickness and bigotry that is attempting to disguise itself as Christianity. Reminds me of the KKK when they call themselves a "Christian" organization and send out hate mail railing against blacks and homosexuals.


Now the doctors I know practicing Christianity treat those in need for free, because "whatsoever you do unto the least of these, you do unto Me."

[GreenPartyVoter]

49. This pathetic excuse for an uplifting faith makes me wretch. It really does.

[independentpiney]

12. Isn't there a parable called The Good Samaritan? n/t

[Tesha]

16. Yeah, but that was about a Samaritan, not a Fundamentalist Christian.

> Isn't there a parable called The Good Samaritan?

Yeah, but that was about a Samaritan, not a Fundamentalist Christian.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samaritan

Tesha

[Breeze54]

32. But the same theme applies,

or it should!! "Do no harm" or "help those in need"... something like that.


The Parable of the Good Samaritan is a famous New Testament parable
appearing only in the Gospel of Luke (10:25-37). The parable is told
by Jesus to illustrate that compassion should be for all people, and
that fulfilling the spirit of the Law is just as important as fulfilling
the letter of the Law. Jesus puts the definition of neighbor into an
enlarged context, beyond what people usually thought of as a neighbor. <1>
http://www.answers.com/topic/parable-of-the-good-samaritan

[Tesha]

38. 'Shame a lot of "Christians" don't believe in the teachings of Christ, ehh? (NT)

[Breeze54]

39. I'd agree! Xian's should practice what they preach.

Especially the one's that claim to be "good christians".

But Dominionist's are a whole different ballgame.

[ingac70]

13. Artificial insemination is not a critical medical procedure....

She should just take her money to another clinic. It is their financial loss.

Not that I'm saying the doctors' refusal is right, and the deal with the pharmacists is deplorable, but artificial insemination is not "treatment".

Hope she wins her lawsuit, though!

[left is right]

18. What do you want to bet that he did charge her for an office visit?

:shrug:

[Pacifist Patriot]

22. Consider this though. There is only one reproductive endocrinologist...

performing intrauterine insemination in my entire county. The next nearest clinic is an hour and a half away. Depending upon whether or not ovulatory stimulants are used, an entire cycle could entail multiple trips to the office for blood draws and intravaginal ultrasounds for monitoring. Like every other day.

This may not be an issue in highly populated areas, but where REs have little to no competition it could become quite an ordeal. IUI is not a critical medical procedure--until you ask a woman who is feeling that biological urge. It's an emotional rollercoaster I wouldn't wish on anyone. Don't even get me started on insurance coverage. :)

And yes, if you detect the voice of experience......

[unblock]

30. oh really?

it's a matter of life and death. seems more "critical" than a whole host of things that no one has any problem with, like stitching superficial cuts, treatment for mild allergies or headaches, etc.

[piedmont]

44. It's not a matter of life and death

It's a matter of fertilization and NOT fertilization. No death involved.

[unblock]

54. it's the beginning, as opposed to the end.

issues surrounding treatment for life entering into the world are just as important than issues surrounding treatment for potential exits.

[we can do it]

14. No - Relious Extremists of ANY Kind Like This Are the Problem

:eyes:

[Tesha]

15. It might be smart to know your doctor's politics/moralities...

It might be smart to know your doctor's politics/moralities
ahead of time rather than having this come as a shock
to you.

One way to broach that conversation is to bring your doctor
a copy of your "advance directives" and "living will". A
fundy whacko doctor will probably have a strong reaction
to any sensible advance directive or living will, especially
if, for example, it designates your same-sex or unmarried
partner as the person holding the medical Power of Attorney
for you.

For women, another way to sound out your doc might be to
make it obvious that one of the reasons you'll be coming
to her is for contraceptive services, and if your chosen
method should fail, you'd certainly expect that she can
provide you (or steer you towards) abortion services or
whatver alternative you feel is appropriate at that time.

For men, you might inquire about this doctor's feelings
towards vasectomies.

Except perhaps on an emergency basis, there's no reason
why you should do ANY business with the religiously
insane, and this includes folks whose business is providing
you with medical services.

Tesha

P.S.: We always thought Mr. Tesha's GP was pretty much
"all right", but we still got a pleasant surprise when
we ran into him at a local peace rally :) Out of context
like that, I didn't recognize him right away, but Mr.
Tesha sure did and made a point of saying hello.

[Breeze54]

20. Naw, just bring a baseball bat!

;)

[soothsayer]

23. I made the mistake of discussing philosophy with my dentist, an

Ayn Rand 'objectivist' who was really, really annoyed that I liked Hegel.

[kestrel91316]

46. My doctor is a liberal Jew. I think I'll keep him.

[YankeyMCC]

24. There's those atheists persecuting xians again

:sarcasm:

[havocmom]

26. Went three rounds with a pharmacist's assistant a few weeks ago.

She was giving me all sorts of shit that our insurance wasn't gonna let her fill a script for me (high blood pressure med!) because my name is not the same as my husband's name! She was giving a very nervous (COSTCO, very busy and LOTS of witnesses) song and dance that she just 'couldn't find' me in the insurance info base.

Odd, since the folks at two doctors' offices and two labs didn't have a lick of trouble finding me just prior to trip to pharmacy.

The woman had the whole staff in an uproar back there, while they were trying to maintain the illusion that things were fine, what with being behind a big window in full view of a score of customers WAITING on the bitch to do her job.

Went up and inquired AGAIN after the time she had asked me to wait, and got a head-down, barely audible ration of bull shit about not being able to do it since my name was not the same as my husband's... Kept asking her to repeat herself as I was having some trouble hearing her. (wanted to make sure everybody in the area heard her bs, hoping to shame her into doing her job and leaving decisions about my legal name to me and the legal professionals ;) ) Made her more and more nervous, she was shaking, dropping things, kept muttering that I couldn't be on the insurance if I didn't have the same name, mumble mumble. Announced that NO OTHER pharmacy, lab, clinic, hospital EVER had a problem with it so she had best get over what was obviously HER problem and get the script filled or I was coming in there to deal with her.

Pharmacist finally came over and relieved her, filled my script and made sure I was OK with the instructions. Cashier was shaking, as was the rest of the staff. Other customers were muttering and asking what her problem had been. Looked over my shoulder and loudly announced that she seemed to think she got to decide who was covered by insurance as a method of dealing with the fact that she didn't like their name.

The meds were for high blood pressure. COSTCO is lucky I didn't have a stroke dealing with the idiot trying to get the script filled! Havocdad would have had lawyers all over there like white on rice.

Sick and tired of Christians of the rabid, judgmental, willfully ignorant type giving the rest of the Christians a bad name by being obstructionist, controlling asses and interfering with the delivery of health care in America.

[Christian30]

27. In The Life Media...

Is doing a story about this that will air in June on public television. Visit our website to check it out:

www.inthelifetv.org.

[Solly Mack]

31. Folks like that get together on their sabbath and preach fellowship

then Monday-Friday find ways to divide and destroy

Piss poor excuses for humans

[lonestarnot]

36. Patients refusing to be treated by doctors they don't like toooooooooo!

[Ilsa]

37. First, let them expose themselves for what they are, then we

can boycott and prosecute, and fine professionals and others not performing their jobs or living their oaths professionally. I'd like to know who all of these nutcases are.

Of course, it won't be an easy task for areas already running short of docs and pharmacists.

[RB TexLa]

40. Can't doctors refuse anyone's business?

They have to give a reason?

[kdpeters]

56. In the same way a restaurant may refuse to serve anyone for any reason

It goes unsaid that "any reason" excludes illegal reasons. They can't discriminate based on certain things -- religion is one of those.

[SoCalDem]

41. If they received FEDERAL help to go through school, they

should have to pay it all back before they go making such "moral" choices..

and perhaps they should re-evaluate why they became a doctor in the first place.

[baldguy]

43. If they advertise their services to the general public,

they should be prepared to deal with the general public.

[sutz12]

45. Excuse me....was Hippocrates a Christian? nt

[SidDithers]

47. They should lose their right to practice medicine...

One question, tho. Why did you put Christian in quotes? Maybe instead they should be described as Christian "doctors", because it sure sounds to me that they're sure of their Christianity, but maybe not so sure about their responsibilities as doctors.

Sid

[Daedelus76]

48. I disagree, even if I'm probably the only one of the forum

Refusing to help somebody seeking non-critical medical services out of conscience isn't quite the same as denying them treatment for a disease. It might seem ugly to some people, but the lesbian won't die if she won't get treatment, and she doesn't really have a disease condition- she wants help getting pregnant. Much better would be to go to a willing infertility clinic- I am sure there are many in California who will perform the procedure.

Now, if this were denying treatment to somebody who was injured or sick because they were gay or lesbian, I would feel very different about this. It's a doctors job to protect human life. That doesn't mean necessarily though they have to do everything the patient wants, but they do have to protect their life no matter who they are. OTOH, a doctor doesn't have to give elective treatment to somebody if he thinks it's not in the patients or society's best interest.

[supernova]

51. Then these "doctors"

need to advertise their practices as being exclusively for patients of whom they personally approve. They need to put in their adds and literature "We will not serve 'AIDS' patients or single women...." or whomever they personally have a beef with.

That way, those of us who aren't on their approval list can go find humane and caring professionals to tend to our medical needs and not be surprised and insulted when we walk in the door.

[slj0101]

50. If you're a fundie - DON'T WORK AT A FUCKING FERTILITY CLINIC!!!111

x(

Besides, if they were hard-core, right-wing Catholics, they wouldn't be allowed to work there anyway.

[Breeze54]

59. That's because masturbation is 'immoral'...

...according to catholic doctrine. :eyes:

http://www.staycatholic.com/what_is_wrong_with_in-vitro_fertilization.htm

"In successful in-vitro fertilization, a human life comes into existence
outside the conjugal act and outside the womb. Conception is the result of
a technician's manipulation of "reproductive materials." The process for the
collection of sperm often necessitates masturbation, which is itself immoral."


:dilemma: :rofl:

[Jack Rabbit]

52. I guess the Hiipocratic oath needn't apply to Christian doctors.

Hippocrates was a pagan, after all.

[LibertyorDeath]

53. How Christian of them

Pathetic...

[kdpeters]

55. Hypocrites and fakes. Matthew 6:5-6

These showy ostentatious displays of fealty show false piety of hypocrites. Christ left no question what He thought of them. He despised them. He commanded His followers to practice in private. Faith is personal. The louder someone shouts their Christian righteousness, the more fake and vulgar the act.

It's time they were called for being the hypocrites and fakes that they are.

[rateyes]

57. The Catholic Hospital that my insurance paid a greater

percentage to, lessening my out of pocket expense refused to allow my vasectomy surgery to take place there. I don't really get it...they won't do abortions, and are opposed to ANY kind of birth control (even the kind that keeps fertilization from taking place). Is the church for, then, a population explosion and all the problems that come with that? Just wondering?

[MN ChimpH8R]

58. So many wingnuts

and so few


Pity, actually. :evilgrin: