Language Observation "people of color"

[subcomhd]

Isn't it odd how "people of color" is acceptable but "colored people" isn't (unless you are 107 tears old)?. I don't really have an opinion about that, other than to think it is odd.

[slackmaster]

1. I like the expression "people of size"

It applies to anyone who is exceptionally large or small in any way.

As for "colored people", I remember well how that was used when I was a young child in Kansas. It meant Negroes, and it was a term of derision. You didn't want to be where there are a lot of colored people.

I also remember the first time I saw a Negro. He was an older man, walking down the street as we drove by in our family car.

"Look there, slackmaster, it's a Negro!"

I smiled and waved at the man. He waved back.

[subcomhd]

3. people of size! I like that a lot. n/t

[Winterblues]

17. NAACP doesn't think it is a term of derision

or they would have changed their name some time ago

[subcomhd]

23. yeah, as I said it isn't really a slur - just archaic and a little un PC.

In fact among very old white people in my part of the South it is what the non-racists say. I'm sure you can guess what the racist ones say. But any white person under, oh say 80, would be thought strange for using it.

[EFerrari]

24. But that's an insider/outsider issue.

Skip Gates can talk about his "big Negro fundraiser" where Dick Cheney could not.

[slackmaster]

28. The NAACP using it is not a good enough reason for ME to use it

I'm not going to.

[pipi_k]

84. As opposed to "sized people"?

hee hee....!


actually I like the term "Zaftig" to describe women of my own size. Sounds sort of exotic

:7

[subcomhd]

92. "sized people" is very sizist! nt

[KamaAina]

102. I'll have to run that one by my new BFF, who is 3'8"

I've seen her use "little person" and "person of short stature", but that one may be new even to her!

[Jim__]

2. I think "colored" has a negative connotation for historical reasons.

"Person of color" doesn't have that connotation. But, yea, they mean the same thing.

[subcomhd]

8. yeah, it's the history with "colored" although it isn't really a slur -just archaic and unPC

it's just funny that when whoever came up with "people of color" said it the first time his/her buddy didn't say "well, that's just like saying colored people."

[omega minimo]

49. "it isn't really a slur"

and "it's just funny......"

Unbelievable.

[Jayberwock]

83. It's a useless distinction;

we *all* have a color.

[rebel with a cause]

103. There is a difference between the two terms.

colored people = Blacks

People of color = anyone not considered white

'Colored people' was a term used to segregate while 'People of color' was meant to help bring all minorities under one umbrella.

I grew up in a place where 'colored people' was one of the best terms used to refer to people considered Black, but that did not mean it was used with affection. I find that the people my age and older that use that term are people who have never known anyone personally that is not white. I have even had some of these people ask me, another white person, questions about what non-whites think and etc because I have as an adult always had friends from all ethnic groups. I hold my tongue but still find it strange in these times that some people who do not consider themselves to not be prejudice are still afraid to go outside their own identity group to interact.

JMHO

[subcomhd]

106. you and I live in very similar places. nt

[rebel with a cause]

115. You live in the south

and I live in a place where some southerns came to when they decided to move north before, during and after the civil war.

Buying and selling slaves was not allowed here back then, but you could go south and buy other human beings and bring them back to the region if you could show you needed them for labor. At least that is what is shown in census of my family's history. We have a museum close to here that is called 'the old slave house'. Plantation type house that was the home of the owners of a salt mine. Went there several times growing up and was horrified by the stories told about the place. They definitely left an impression on me, especially about the attic. I don't know how others feel about a place like this, but to me it is similar to a Holocaust museum. :shrug:

The place is closed now, but the state has bought it for a historic site. Here are some links to stories about it and the haunting of it.

http://www.prairieghosts.com/slave.html

http://nowhereil.blogspot.com/2007/03/old-slave-house.html

http://illinoishistory.blogspot.com/2006/10/old-slave-house-closed-10-years-ago.html

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/465194/the_ghosts_of_the_old_slave_house_in.html

http://weirdplacestovisit.com/north-america/visit-the-old-slave-house-illinois.htm

http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Gazetteer/Places/America/United_States/Illinois/_Texts/DRUOIH/Southern_Illinois/12*.html

[subcomhd]

116. Those links were interesting. Thanks.

I had no idea about slaves in Illinois. I didn't know you had salt mines.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

75. Do they?

I think "person of color" can refer to a Chinese person, too, as well as an African-American, or black, or how about Hispanics - they're "persons of color" sometimes, right?

But, "colored people" only ever referred to Negroes referred to blacks referred to African-Americans.

I think of myself as a person of color - I'm sort of pink and olive, with occasional golden overtones.

It's complicated, and I don't know why...........................

[Jim__]

80. "colored people" only ever referred to Negroes referred to blacks referred to African-Americans.

That's not true. Ghandi was thrown off the train in South Africa because he was "colored."

[Tangerine LaBamba]

81. I was talking about

the United States.

The term 'colored" had a whole lot of usage in all kinds of places.

Ever hear of South Africa?

[Jim__]

89. I referred to South Africa in my post, so your question is sort of silly. -n/t

[TahitiNut]

4. Generally speaking, it's regarded as more respectful to put the word "person" or "people" up front.

"People with disabilities" is regarded as more respectful than "disabled people." (Not to mention the fact that all people are "abled.")

I personally am uncomfortable with "typing" or treating people as commodities based upon some narrow characteristic, attribute, or habit. Thus, I tend to agree with the emphasis on "person" or "people."

[subcomhd]

9. OK - you may be on to something, I'm trying to think of other examples. n/t

[Spider Jerusalem]

27. I have certain issues with person-first language.

I have Asperger Syndrome; I AM autistic. I am not a 'person with autism'. Take away the autism and I wouldn't be me, I'd be someone else. (Autistics and the deaf community are probably the most notable subset of the 'disability' community to mostly reject 'person-first' descriptors for themselves).

[CTyankee]

90. I think there is a fine distinction you are missing. To say someone is autistic

simply speaks to a condition the person has and can be distinguished by. To say someone is a disabled person defines him or her by what they cannot do. Autism is not, IMHO, that kind of "label."

[bobbolink]

35. Then there's "homeless" without even the THE, let alone PERSON first.

Yes, we've been dehumanized, and that includes by "progressives".

And when we try to correct it, we're told not to be so "sensitive".

:nuke:

[subcomhd]

126. Isn't "homeless" without "the" or "person" an adjective?

Whereas "the homeless" or "homeless person" are nouns?

[bobbolink]

129. What it is is dehumanizing.

That's what it is.

[subcomhd]

130. so what word should I use? nt

[bobbolink]

131. If you read the post I was responding to, you would have seen that "PERSON" is an important word to

use FIRST.

We are people first, not grammar.

To take it one step further, there is a pastor who is very compassionate and committed to working with people who are homeless and poor.

His term?

'People MADE poor", or "People MADE homeless". I really like that. It puts the onus where it belongs... on the damned society!

[subcomhd]

134. that's cool. I'm poor. Indigent is the word the County Health Clinic I rely upon uses.

[bobbolink]

133. I'm guessing that you can put together what that poster said about "person" and what I've said,

and figure it out.

[omega minimo]

114. Key points. Thanks TahitiNut. Acknowledging people as people is part of the history relevant here.

[daedalus_dude]

5. Context is everything.

Which word is or is not acceptable usually depends on the underlying implications and the relationship between the person saying it and the person hearing it, more than on the actual wording.

[Lex]

6. Everyone has a color

so it's kind of a weird phrase.

[Karenina]

12. Ya think?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n26iGdm354I :rofl:

[subcomhd]

15. I'll see you that and raise you this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFY2kJ96jNY

[Karenina]

34. BWHAHAHAHAHAHA!

:spray::rofl::rofl::rofl:

[calimary]

63. WOW! What a great video!!!

He forgot one thing - how 'bout "when you get a fake tan, you're orange"?

:D

[Karenina]

78. This is an OLDIE from these parts, maybe a decade or so.

When I first saw it I fell off my chair in a fit of laughter. One of the things I find most frustrating in our feeble attempts to find any kind of SOLIDARITÄT is that we Americans have NO NEUTRAL LANGUAGE to even begin a sane discourse. I can discuss racism with Yurpeens easily as they do not have all the code word, kneejerk responses AND rather than lecture, ASK FOR MORE INFORMATION. Definitely NOT an American trait. ;-)

[PunkinPi]

13. +1

That's how I've always seen it.

[CJCRANE]

7. Maybe it's the emphasis due to the word order...

"People of color" are people first...
"Colored people" sounds like they are passive recipients of a coloring process.

[subcomhd]

11. But passive recipients is correct.

You don't participate in choosing your color, your parents do a little, or at least narrow the possibilities. But I still get your point, sort of.

[omega minimo]

48. It's close to the same point I tried to make, you get it "sort of"

You're from Texas? Where did you grow up? Are you really unfamiliar with the charge of the term "colored people"? Or the history of "colored"?

[Mr. Blonde]

79. George Carlin had a bit about that

although he was discussing "happens to be"

"He happens to be black." Like it's a fucking accident, you know. He happens to be black? Yes, he happens to be black. Ah, yes, yes, yes. He had two black parents? Oh, yes, that's right, two black parents. And they fucked? Oh, indeed they did. So where does the surprise part come in? I would think it would be more unusual if he just "happened" to be Scandinavian!

[tularetom]

10. Before my mother died we were talking and she kept referring to "colored people"

We told her "Mom that's not a term you should be using. It was unacceptable 40 years ago".

Not five minutes later, Oprah was on TV talking about "people of color".

She just looked at us and kind of smirked.

[subcomhd]

14. My grandparent used to say it and they weren't racist - just from "old-timey days"

the Oprah story is good example of the colored people/people of color thingy.

[Johonny]

16. You just reinvented a bloom county comic strip from 20 years ago

[GreenPartyVoter]

55. The one with the revamped and sensitive Steve Dallas trying to teach his

mom how to be sensitive too? :D

[Johonny]

58. yeah

;)

[Rebubula]

72. LOLZ

Everytime I hear the phrase 'people of color' - I think of that strip.

I loved the old Bloom County cartoons....

[dipsydoodle]

18. In the UK

The general expression would be coloured people/folk with no intention/implication of derision whatsoever. Would only be used with regard to those of African heritage sometimes to distinguish between them as a group from Asians - Asians in the UK are Indian Subcontinent only : not the entire continent as seems to be the case in the USA which then includes Orientals who by the way are generally speaking appalled at that. Orientals are proud of their name and heritage and as such prefer that term.

What would be an extremely nasty phrase here is non white.

[subcomhd]

20. coloUred - a third category! Hi UK person.

Remember when Bush said "pakis?"

[dipsydoodle]

26. Our spelling preceded

your simplified method - somewhat. :)

In general we stopped using the term Paki donkeys years ago because it had become derisory. That was partly due to some of our comedians using that expression. It is however possible that Indians still use that expression against Pakistanis as an intentional derisory expression.

[madmom]

19. To me I always mean/meant "people of color" as any one who is not caucasian. I

don't know what any one else means. I thought it better than trying to pin point an ethnicity but don't do it as a habit. :shrug:

[subcomhd]

22. you have a point

"colored people" is an archaic reference to Blacks whereas "people of color" - at least I have always thought - refers to all non-caucasians.

[nc4bo]

21. I prefer "people of color"

Colored people definitely has that prejudiced, old timey flavor to it that I despise. Like someone upthread mentioned, it doesn't necessarily have to be used in a derogatory way.

Colored people almost always, always, always referred to nnnnn.........black people. I'd like to think it was used most by those who weren't trying to be offensive, just descriptive.

"People of color", to me, refers to all varieties of non-white people, is much more inclusive, less offensive and (forgive the corniness) almost poetic.

That's just me though.

[Pangolin2]

25. Ever see the movie Pleasantville?

:-)

[omega minimo]

29. One is inclusive. One is exclusive. Why DREDGE this shit up

and not get the point? :thumbsdown:

No, you're not ready for the Bay Area.

[subcomhd]

30. it's just a question about language,

jeez.

[omega minimo]

31. Do you really not understand the difference?

[subcomhd]

32. I know that one is acceptable and the other is not, yet linguistically

they are virtually identical. Like a wooden table and a table of wood. I think that's very interesting. I think the way languages evolve through common use is interesting in general.

[omega minimo]

37. You replied to my first post. Did you read it?

Did you think about those words? Understand? Want to ask? Or continue to see them as "virtually identical"? Here's a clue. Humans are not furniture.

[subcomhd]

41. I get the inclusive/exclusive part, but how did it evolve that way?

"humans are not furniture" that's just sophistry.

Lighten the fuck up. jeebus h christ!

[Name removed]

44. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[subcomhd]

46. racist?

do you realize how much you trivialize racism by saying that?

[omega minimo]

51. At this point

your credibility is nil.

[subcomhd]

62. well, well, well look what I found.

"So, let me tell you how I handle some of these speech issues. First of all, I say "black." I say "black" because most black people prefer "black." I don't say "people of color." People of color sounds like something you see when you're on mushrooms. Besides, the use of people of color is dishonest. It means precisely the same as colored people. If you're not willing to say "colored people," you shouldn't be saying 'people of color.'"

George Carlin (racist)

[omega minimo]

64. Not all "people of color" are "black"

[CrispyQ]

65. "People of color sounds like something you see when you're on mushrooms."

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[BlooInBloo]

33. Ah. Faux mis-understanding, in the service of "political correctness" whining. Cute.

[subcomhd]

36. Are you say I'm being PC?

Are you saying I'm whining about someone else being PC? How you can take my observation and come to that conclusion is pretty strange.

[omega minimo]

38. BS

[omega minimo]

39. Nailed it.

Point proven by "aw shucks" exchange just above. :hi:

[BlooInBloo]

40. Oh - didn't bother reading any of the thread - heh.

[BlooInBloo]

42. And I hope no-one unrecs this - I enjoy seeing just how many people agree.

[subcomhd]

43. You sure can read shit into something that isn't there.

are you paranoid? Seriously are you paranoid?

[omega minimo]

45. Look you dug your hole. Don't start insulting other people and dig deeper.

Calling names of people who aren't calling YOU what YOU appear to be. :thumbsdown:

[Name removed]

47. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[omega minimo]

50. The OP is apparently phony flamebait, intended to divide and insult the DU community.

[BlooInBloo]

52. Pro tip: "Oversensitive" is the agreed-upon word.

[omega minimo]

LOL

:rofl:

[old mark]

53. "People of Color" used to be a racial classification for those people darker complected

than northern European whites in the old South African regime, but not black Africans. There wwere different restrictions on what different shades of human beings could do, etc. It certainly was racist in that usage, and I am always surprised to see it used casually here in the US.

mark

[subcomhd]

54. so in SA, "people of color" was a slur?

[old mark]

70. They had various legal/social classes of personhood, which I would

consider offensive - AFAIK, it was a legal term or description.

That place in that time struck me as very nasty in a lot of ways.

mark

[subcomhd]

86. yikes nt

[derby378]

56. First learned of the term from a BLOOM COUNTY strip

And yes, Berke Breathed commented on the paradox, too.

[subcomhd]

57. They must be racists. LOL, nt

[omega minimo]

59. He's white, right?

:think:

[subcomhd]

60. that makes him racist?

wow

[omega minimo]

61. You said that, not I. It could help him be oblivious.

[omega minimo]

66. Check it out

http://www.lilithgallery.com/feminist/modern/WhitePrivilege-MalePrivilege.html

Daily effects of white privilege

I decided to try to work on myself at least by identifying some of the daily effects of white privilege in my life. I have chosen those conditions that I think in my case attach somewhat more to skin-color privilege than to class, religion, ethnic status, or geographic location, though of course all these other factors are intricately intertwined. As far as I can tell, my African American coworkers, friends, and acquaintances with whom I come into daily or frequent contact in this particular time, place and time of work cannot count on most of these conditions.

1. I can if I wish arrange to be in the company of people of my race most of the time.
2. I can avoid spending time with people whom I was trained to mistrust and who have learned to mistrust my kind or me.
3. If I should need to move, I can be pretty sure of renting or purchasing housing in an area which I can afford and in which I would want to live.
4. I can be pretty sure that my neighbors in such a location will be neutral or pleasant to me.
5. I can go shopping alone most of the time, pretty well assured that I will not be followed or harassed.
6. I can turn on the television or open to the front page of the paper and see people of my race widely represented.
7. When I am told about our national heritage or about "civilization," I am shown that people of my color made it what it is.
8. I can be sure that my children will be given curricular materials that testify to the existence of their race.
9. If I want to, I can be pretty sure of finding a publisher for this piece on white privilege.
10. I can be pretty sure of having my voice heard in a group in which I am the only member of my race.
11. I can be casual about whether or not to listen to another person's voice in a group in which s/he is the only member of his/her race.
12. I can go into a music shop and count on finding the music of my race represented, into a supermarket and find the staple foods which fit with my cultural traditions, into a hairdresser's shop and find someone who can cut my hair.
13. Whether I use checks, credit cards or cash, I can count on my skin color not to work against the appearance of financial reliability.
14. I can arrange to protect my children most of the time from people who might not like them.
15. I do not have to educate my children to be aware of systemic racism for their own daily physical protection.
16. I can be pretty sure that my children's teachers and employers will tolerate them if they fit school and workplace norms; my chief worries about them do not concern others' attitudes toward their race.
17. I can talk with my mouth full and not have people put this down to my color.
18. I can swear, or dress in second hand clothes, or not answer letters, without having people attribute these choices to the bad morals, the poverty or the illiteracy of my race.
19. I can speak in public to a powerful male group without putting my race on trial.
20. I can do well in a challenging situation without being called a credit to my race.
21. I am never asked to speak for all the people of my racial group.
22. I can remain oblivious of the language and customs of persons of color who constitute the world's majority without feeling in my culture any penalty for such oblivion.
23. I can criticize our government and talk about how much I fear its policies and behavior without being seen as a cultural outsider.
24. I can be pretty sure that if I ask to talk to the "person in charge", I will be facing a person of my race.
25. If a traffic cop pulls me over or if the IRS audits my tax return, I can be sure I haven't been singled out because of my race.
26. I can easily buy posters, post-cards, picture books, greeting cards, dolls, toys and children's magazines featuring people of my race.
27. I can go home from most meetings of organizations I belong to feeling somewhat tied in, rather than isolated, out-of-place, outnumbered, unheard, held at a distance or feared.
28. I can be pretty sure that an argument with a colleague of another race is more likely to jeopardize her/his chances for advancement than to jeopardize mine.
29. I can be pretty sure that if I argue for the promotion of a person of another race, or a program centering on race, this is not likely to cost me heavily within my present setting, even if my colleagues disagree with me.
30. If I declare there is a racial issue at hand, or there isn't a racial issue at hand, my race will lend me more credibility for either position than a person of color will have.
31. I can choose to ignore developments in minority writing and minority activist programs, or disparage them, or learn from them, but in any case, I can find ways to be more or less protected from negative consequences of any of these choices.
32. My culture gives me little fear about ignoring the perspectives and powers of people of other races.
33. I am not made acutely aware that my shape, bearing or body odor will be taken as a reflection on my race.
34. I can worry about racism without being seen as self-interested or self-seeking.
35. I can take a job with an affirmative action employer without having my co-workers on the job suspect that I got it because of my race.
36. If my day, week or year is going badly, I need not ask of each negative episode or situation whether it had racial overtones.
37. I can be pretty sure of finding people who would be willing to talk with me and advise me about my next steps, professionally.
38. I can think over many options, social, political, imaginative or professional, without asking whether a person of my race would be accepted or allowed to do what I want to do.
39. I can be late to a meeting without having the lateness reflect on my race.
40. I can choose public accommodation without fearing that people of my race cannot get in or will be mistreated in the places I have chosen.
41. I can be sure that if I need legal or medical help, my race will not work against me.
42. I can arrange my activities so that I will never have to experience feelings of rejection owing to my race.
43. If I have low credibility as a leader I can be sure that my race is not the problem.
44. I can easily find academic courses and institutions which give attention only to people of my race.
45. I can expect figurative language and imagery in all of the arts to testify to experiences of my race.
46. I can chose blemish cover or bandages in "flesh" color and have them more or less match my skin.
47. I can travel alone or with my spouse without expecting embarrassment or hostility in those who deal with us.
48. I have no difficulty finding neighborhoods where people approve of our household.
49. My children are given texts and classes which implicitly support our kind of family unit and do not turn them against my choice of domestic partnership.
50. I will feel welcomed and "normal" in the usual walks of public life, institutional and social.

The Male Privilege Checklist

1. My odds of being hired for a job, when competing against female applicants, are probably skewed in my favor. The more prestigious the job, the larger the odds are skewed.
2. I can be confident that my co-workers won't think I got my job because of my sex - even though that might be true.
3. If I am never promoted, it's not because of my sex.
4. If I fail in my job or career, I can feel sure this won't be seen as a black mark against my entire sex's capabilities.
5. The odds of my encountering sexual harassment on the job are so low as to be negligible.
6. If I do the same task as a woman, and if the measurement is at all subjective, chances are people will think I did a better job.
7. If I'm a teen or adult, and if I can stay out of prison, my odds of being raped are so low as to be negligible.
8. I am not taught to fear walking alone after dark in average public spaces.
9. If I choose not to have children, my masculinity will not be called into question.
10. If I have children but do not provide primary care for them, my masculinity will not be called into question.
11. If I have children and provide primary care for them, I'll be praised for extraordinary parenting if I'm even marginally competent.
12. If I have children and pursue a career, no one will think I'm selfish for not staying at home.
13. If I seek political office, my relationship with my children, or who I hire to take care of them, will probably not be scrutinized by the press.
14. Chances are my elected representatives are mostly people of my own sex. The more prestigious and powerful the elected position, the more likely this is to be true.
15. I can be somewhat sure that if I ask to see "the person in charge," I will face a person of my own sex. The higher-up in the organization the person is, the surer I can be.
16. As a child, chances are I was encouraged to be more active and outgoing than my sisters.
17. As a child, I could choose from an almost infinite variety of children's media featuring positive, active, non-stereotyped heroes of my own sex. I never had to look for it; male heroes were the default.
18. As a child, chances are I got more teacher attention than girls who raised their hands just as often.
19. If my day, week or year is going badly, I need not ask of each negative episode or situation whether or not it has sexist overtones.
20. I can turn on the television or glance at the front page of the newspaper and see people of my own sex widely represented, every day, without exception.
21. If I'm careless with my financial affairs it won't be attributed to my sex.
22. If I'm careless with my driving it won't be attributed to my sex.
23. I can speak in public to a large group without putting my sex on trial.
24. If I have sex with a lot of people, it won't make me an object of contempt or derision.
25. There are value-neutral clothing choices available to me; it is possible for me to choose clothing that doesn't send any particular message to the world.
26. My wardrobe and grooming are relatively cheap and consume little time.
27. If I buy a new car, chances are I'll be offered a better price than a woman buying the same car.
28. If I'm not conventionally attractive, the disadvantages are relatively small and easy to ignore.
29. I can be loud with no fear of being called a shrew. I can be aggressive with no fear of being called a bitch.
30. I can ask for legal protection from violence that happens mostly to men without being seen as a selfish special interest, since that kind of violence is called "crime" and is a general social concern. (Violence that happens mostly to women is usually called "domestic violence" or "acquaintance rape," and is seen as a special interest issue.)
31. I can be confident that the ordinary language of day-to-day existence will always include my sex. "All men are created equal…," mailman, chairman, freshman, he.
32. My ability to make important decisions and my capability in general will never be questioned depending on what time of the month it is.
33. I will never be expected to change my name upon marriage or questioned if i don't change my name.
34. The decision to hire me will never be based on assumptions about whether or not I might choose to have a family sometime soon.
35. Every major religion in the world is led primarily by people of my own sex. Even God, in most major religions, is usually pictured as being male.
36. Most major religions argue that I should be the head of my household, while my wife and children should be subservient to me.
37. If I have a wife or girlfriend, chances are we'll divide up household chores so that she does most of the labor, and in particular the most repetitive and unrewarding tasks.
38. If I have children with a wife or girlfriend, chances are she'll do most of the childrearing, and in particular the most dirty, repetitive and unrewarding parts of childrearing.
39. If I have children with a wife or girlfriend, and it turns out that one of us needs to make career sacrifices to raise the kids, chances are we'll both assume the career sacrificed should be hers.
40. Magazines, billboards, television, movies, pornography, and virtually all of media is filled with images of scantily-clad women intended to appeal to me sexually. Such images of men exist, but are much rarer.
41. I am not expected to spend my entire life 20-40 pounds underweight.
42. If I am heterosexual, it's incredibly unlikely that I'll ever be beaten up by a spouse or lover.
43. I have the privilege of being unaware of my male privilege.

[subcomhd]

68. this is funnier than that

Besides, the whole idea of color is bullshit anyway. What should we call white people? "People of no color?" Isn't pink a color? In fact, white people are not really white at all, they're different shades of pink, olive, and beige. In other words, they're colored. And black people are rarely black. I see mostly different shades of brown and tan. In fact, some light-skinned black people are lighter than the darkest white people. Look how dark the people in India are. They're dark brown, but they're considered white people. What's going on here? May I see the color chart? "People of color" is an awkward, bullshit, liberal-guilt phrase that obscures meaning rather than enhancing it. Shall we call fat people, "people of size?"
By the way, I think the whole reason we're encouraged in this country to think of ourselves as "black and white" (instead of "pink and brown," which is what we are) is that black and white are complete opposites that cannot be reconciled. Black and white can never come together. Pink and brown, on the other hand, might just stand a chance of being blended, might just come together. Can't have that! Doesn't fit the plan.
I also don't say "African-American." I find it completely illogical, and furthermore it's confusing. Which part of Africa are we talking about? What about Egypt? Egypt is in Africa. Egyptians aren't black. They're like the people in India, they're dark brown white people. But they're Africans. So why wouldn't an Egyptian who becomes a U.S. citizen be an African-American? The same thing goes for the Republic of South Africa. Suppose a white racist from South Africa becomes an American citizen? Well, first of all he'd find plenty of company, but couldn't he also be called an African-American? It seems to me that a racist white South-African guy could come here and call himself African-American just to piss off black people. And, by the way, what about a black person born in South Africa who moves here and becomes a citizen? What is he? An African-South-African-American? Or a South-African-African-American?
Alright, back to this hemisphere. How about a black woman who is a citizen of Jamaica? According to P.C. doctrine, she's an African-Jamaican, right? But if she becomes a U.S. citizen, she's a Jamaican-American. And yet if one of these language crusaders saw her on the street, he'd think she was an African-American. Unless he knew her personally in which case he would have to decide between African-Jamaican-American and Jamaican-African-American. Ya know? It's just so much liberal bullshit. Labels divide people. We need fewer labels, not more.

George Carlin (racist)

[omega minimo]

71. Sometimes what you think or like or find "logical" is not the most important thing

[subcomhd]

74. Sometimes?

So then you concede there are such times.

[omega minimo]

76. I concede that you are determined to misunderstand every post.

[subcomhd]

77. That is really ironic. nt

[Number23]

140. "Look how dark the people in India are. They're dark brown, but they're considered white people."

By whom????

[subcomhd]

141. Caucasians

The term Caucasian race (also Caucasoid, Europid, or Europoid<1>) has been used to denote the general physical type of some or all of the indigenous populations of Europe, North Africa, the Horn of Africa, West Asia, Central Asia and South Asia.<2> Historically, the term has been used to describe the entire population of these regions, without regard necessarily to skin tone. In common use, the term is sometimes restricted to Europeans and other lighter-skinned populations within these areas, and may be considered equivalent to the varying definitions of white people.<3>

The concept of a Caucasian race is highly controversial today. It is rejected by many academics and political activists who view any system of categorizing humanity based on physical type as an obsolete 19th Century racism,<4> and human genome studies have shown that there is no single and simple genetic definition equivalent to "Caucasian".<5>However the term continues to be widely used in many scientific and general contexts, usually with its more restricted sense of "white".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caucasian_race

[Hannah Bell]

67. ruling class linguistics.

[TheKentuckian]

69. I've always processed people of color as meaning non-white

while colored meant black, not in a racist way so much as out of date.

I use black because I find the hyphenation crap to be inaccurate and kind of offensive and non-patriotic. African-American means you just migrated from Africa, imo. Certainly, it would describe anyone of African ancestry that is now an American, many of whom aren't black at all.

[subcomhd]

73. "not in a racist way so much as out of date"

Hence the NAACP (founded when it was in vogue) as someone has noted and as really old non-racist whites use it around here. In fact fact that's one way to identify the non-racist old folks here, They say "colored" instead of, THAT word.

[TexasObserver]

82. Terms for describing racial attributes change.

Over the past 50 years, the proper terms for blacks in America have been subject to evolution. That's why the term "colored" was replaced by "Negro," why that term was replaced by "black," and why that term was replaced by "African American." Now some blacks self identify as black, and others as African American, but most as one of the two.

"People of color" seems to reach for that large group of non whites, and would extend to such groups as Indians or Pakistanis.

I don't find the term "people of color" to be useful. If the writer is delineating white versus non white, saying that plainly makes more sense. With either approach, determining which peoples are in each group still comes down to a judgment call. Are Spanish people of color? Are Mexicans? Are Taiwanese? Are Iranians?

[Indenturedebtor]

85. "People of Color" is racist as hell

It's just more polite about it. Basically anyone who's not white is put into one group, and white people into another.

Saying that someone is black, asian, melanesian, white, whatever is descriptive of their race. Grouping everyone into white and not-white obviously implies that white people are special and everyone else is an amorphous mass of "not so special".

[theHandpuppet]

93. Not necessarily?

There are instances where "people of color" isn't just a description meant to denigrate anyone who isn't "white". Let me provide you with my own example and I'd certainly be interested in hearing your opinion.

I am the administrator for a genealogy site dedicated to researching persons with the surname, Gilliland (and its various spellings). The vast majority of people who carry that surname are of Scots or Scot-Irish origins so much of the history discussed centers around those families and that particular history. However, there are also quite a number of Gillilands, especially in the South, who are descendants of former slaves and those families are just as much a part of Gilliland family history as anyone else. Researching those records presents its own complex challenges, however, and that topic has been discussed as one unique to "Gillilands of color". I have myself used this descriptor in the past. Here is one discussion as an example, "Early Gilleylens of color in Monroe Co., Mississippi"
http://users.boardnation.com/~gillilandtrails/index.php?board=2;action=display;threadid=211 (I'm not sure I can get this full URL to work here. In that case, the thread may be found at the top of page 2)

In this case, do you find my use of "Gilleylens of Color" as racist or insulting? I ask that honestly, because to me context matters. Then again, maybe I'm totally off base here.

[subcomhd]

94. I know you didn't ask me but;

what's wrong with Black Gilleylens?

[omega minimo]

96. The premise of the OP is set up such that your question would actually be:

"What's wrong with Colored Gilleylens?"

Maybe that example -- and the fact you didn't use it -- will help you or someone else understand this a bit better.

[Name removed]

98. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[omega minimo]

107. An honest OP would consider the point, if any actual answer to the question was intended.

[subcomhd]

109. Play her off!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4eGQ5VFt7P4

[omega minimo]

111. You damage your credibility, not mine.

:thumbsup: I already said it was nil. What's < nil?

I thought I'd ask one last time, in case you really were interested in learning anything from DU, rather than reinforce your existing attitudes.

[subcomhd]

113. :-)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4eGQ5VFt7P4

[Indenturedebtor]

137. I do think that context matters and you describe a difficult situation

In the end, in my opinion, I simply think that when "people of color" is used to describe all non-white people then it is extremely racist. If the term is simply in use to describe one other race, then I don't know that it is quite as offensive...

[subcomhd]

139. Some day it will be considered a racist term, almost definitely

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euphemism#The_.22euphemism_treadmill.22

[omega minimo]

87. Are any "people of color" in this thread or do they stay out of the messed up embarrassments?

[Odin2005]

88. On a related note, I prefer to be called an "autistic person", not a "person with autism"

To me "Person with Autism" implies that my Asperger's is something "apart" from me, not part of my identity.

[subcomhd]

91. Which is the opposite of the colored people/people of color preference

interesting. And thank you for making a positive contribution to this post, unlike some (one actually.)

[omega minimo]

95. Have you gained any insight from your thread? Did it help you understand?

[BlooInBloo]

97. The poster is not looking for understanding. It's just a "white unity" dogwhistle.

[subcomhd]

100. What language are you speaking?

white unity dog whistle? Is that a band or something?

[Name removed]

99. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[omega minimo]

105. You can't answer that but make personal attacks. So BlooInBloo is correct?

The OP is a sham? You learned nothing?

[subcomhd]

108. here you go

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4eGQ5VFt7P4

[subcomhd]

101. removed by me

[omega minimo]

104. .

[Evoman]

110. I always wondered why people don't just say black.

I don't know any black people who dislike the term "black". Of course, that could be because I just don't know any. Contrary to popular belief, black people are individuals.

[omega minimo]

112. "Colored people" is offensive. Not all "people of color" are black. African American is polite.

"Black" is familiar. Discretion is respectful.

[Karenina]

118. But THAT requires actually getting to know people.

I mean like up close and personal. And actually CARING about those relationships! Ya know what I mean, Vern? :rofl:

[omega minimo]

125. Or if you don't

treating them like people anyway! :think: :wow: :spray: :hi:

[La Lioness Priyanka]

121. POC generally refers to all POC not just to african americans. nt

[the temperance card]

117. Our language keeps "evolving" and I put that in quotes

because the implication is that word changes improve the intent, which I think is now bordering on the ridiculous. At one time, 'colored' was the polite term. Now it's a fighting word. Same with 'negro.' Now that word implies that a person of color is a racial sell-out. Remember 'Afro-American' as a precursor to 'African-American?' Why did that fall by the wayside? Because it sounded too much like it was all about afros?

The PC purveyors of language have their hearts in the right place, but all this dancing around the issue of race and other labels ('disable' vs. 'handicapped,' and 'sightless' rather than 'blind') create the impression that these conditions are wrong somehow. I see 'White' and 'African-American' next to one another in a sentence and I want to scream out: "Why is Black a dirty word???!!"

[subcomhd]

119. More Carlin

"They say they're going to pre-board those passengers in need of special assistance. Cripples! Simple honest direct language. There is no shame attached to the word cripple that I can find in any dictionary. No shame attached to it, in fact it's a word used in bible translations. Jesus healed the cripples. Doesn't take seven words to describe that condition. But we don't have any cripples in this country anymore. We have The physically challenged. Is that a grotesque enough evasion for you? How about differently abled. I've heard them called that. Differently abled! You can't even call these people handicapped anymore. They'll say, "Were not handicapped. Were handicapable!" These poor people have been bullshitted by the system into believing that if you change the name of the condition, somehow you'll change the condition. Well, hey cousin, ppsssspptttttt. Doesn't happen. Doesn't happen."

[La Lioness Priyanka]

120. Why do you have such a massive desire to say "colored people"?

[subcomhd]

122. I have no desire to say it, or people of color for that matter.

nt

[La Lioness Priyanka]

123. so how do you address people of color?

[subcomhd]

124. Sir or m'am

Seriously though - Black. Or if you are refering to all non-whites, whatever their specific ethnicity.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

127. I've always hated that term.

[subcomhd]

132. Which one? nt

[Starbucks Anarchist]

135. "People of color."

[Xenotime]

128. We should stop referring to people as people. They should be call humans.

:sarcasm:

[subcomhd]

136. Conversation I just had with my step-dad.

Me: OK before Black/African-American, Negro was the term that Blacks self-applied right?

Him: Right.

Me: So before that, it was what? Was it Colored? As in the NAACP?

Him: Yes, and how old do you think I am? (he's 61)


BTW - He prefers Black, thinks AA is fine but "people of color" is "kind of weird."

[Apollo11]

138. People of color is more inclusive than any available alternative

In the UK, authorities use the acronym "BAME" (Black, Asian and Minority Ethnic) to describe non-white people.

I never heard Barack Obama describe himself as "black". He never tries to cover-up his mixed racial heritage.

"Colored people" sounds like they started out white, until someone colored them.