WWJD: Who Would Jesus Deny (Healthcare)?

[ddeclue]

Another one for all of those guys like the "God's Judgement" guy who heckled Senator Spector today:

Luke 10:25-37 (New International Version)

The Parable of the Good Samaritan

25 On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. "Teacher," he asked, "what must I do to inherit eternal life?"

26 "What is written in the Law?" he replied. "How do you read it?"

27He answered: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind'; and, 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'"

28 "You have answered correctly," Jesus replied. "Do this and you will live."

29 But he wanted to justify himself, so he asked Jesus, "And who is my neighbor?"

30 In reply Jesus said: "A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, when he fell into the hands of robbers. They stripped him of his clothes, beat him and went away, leaving him half dead. 31 A priest happened to be going down the same road, and when he saw the man, he passed by on the other side. 32 So too, a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. 33 But a Samaritan, as he traveled, came where the man was; and when he saw him, he took pity on him. 34 He went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he put the man on his own donkey, took him to an inn and took care of him. 35 The next day he took out two silver coins and gave them to the innkeeper. 'Look after him,' he said, 'and when I return, I will reimburse you for any extra expense you may have.'

36 "Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers?"

37 The expert in the law replied, "The one who had mercy on him." Jesus told him, "Go and do likewise."

[grantcart]

1. Cliffordu

But that just makes sense from a Darwinian point of view.

[cliffordu]

19. Up yours.

Jaysus already GAVE me healthcare.

I got your share, suckah.

[BlooInBloo]

2. Approximately 2/3 of the world.

[ddeclue]

3. ??? Not sure your point here...

I'm just pointing out the internal inconsistencies in these people's world view. If someone claimes to be a Christian, shouldn't they follow the example and teachings of Christ?

[BlooInBloo]

4. Ooh - thanks for pointing that out. *AT LEAST* approximately 2/3 of the world.

I was just answering your question.

[ddeclue]

5. Ummm actually nope - ask the Roman Centurion..

or the Samaritan woman..

Jesus isn't the problem.. it's all the people claiming to follow him..

:P

[BlooInBloo]

7. That would be a fine rebuttal...

If there were 3 or fewer people in the world.

[ddeclue]

9. It's a fine rebuttal period.. the stories of the Bible are inherently anecdotal not statistical in

nature.

Again your problem isn't with what Jesus is reported to have said or done in the bible (turns out he was a long haired liberal sandal wearing anti-establishment hippie..) it's with all those who have hijacked the brand name afterwards..

[BlooInBloo]

11. Oh. Argument By Citing Admitted Fiction. That's a new one for me.

[ddeclue]

12. Umm not at all.. what's your point?

If we were talking about Obi Wan Kenobi we would still be referring to the Star Wars screen play although it is also a "work of fiction"...

Sorry if you wanna get your "Christian hate" on and I'm spoiling your party...

Get a clue..

If you ever want to persuade conservatives and moderate to conservatives that they are wrong you'll never do it by citing liberal arguments... the best way is to use their own rhetoric against them and point out the logical inconsistencies in their world view from within.

[ddeclue]

15. FYI: I'm a lapsed Catholic who doesn't attend church. n/t

[elocs]

14. Jesus should not be held responsible for those who "claim" to be his followers.

Besides, it was never Jesus' intention to start a "Christian" church.

[Kaleva]

6. The French, minorities, Democrats.....

[Deja Q]

8. K%R #5

[chollybocker]

10. Word of advice: never use biblical passages

...to argue against bible thumpers; it's a slippery slope that has no foundation.

[ddeclue]

13. Wrong... it actually is extremely effective and messes with their minds..

because it takes their arguments apart from within their own world view.

They don't give liberal secular arguments any value because they don't believe in a secular world. The best way to take these people down is to use their own words against them.

[chollybocker]

16. I still disagree.

Employing biblical quotes lends immediate credibility to falsehoods and mythology. Better to stick with reason, science, logic, etc. Otherwise, you're stuck the next day arguing what Prophet X said in 4:12, instead of reality.

[ddeclue]

20. You need to learn how to relate to other people if you want to be in politics.

You can't win arguements by employing tactics that the other side simply doesn't accept as valid.

You have to beat them on their own turf - trust me it works, I've lived in the Deep South for a considerable portion of my life and the best way to beat a Thumper or a Conservative is to use their own words against them.

[Deja Q]

17. I have used such quotes and they do not like it at all.

For the reasons you stated.

[customerserviceguy]

24. I cannot agree

Basing any religion on the Judeo-Christian Bible requires one to ignore the inconsistencies therein, and every single religion arising from the multitude of versions of that ancient text has fully developed rationales for deciding what it discards, and what it holds as "truth".

You might mess with them for a few hours or days, but soon they'll be back in front of some preacher whose living depends on bamboozling them with some incomprehensible well-rehearsed argument that convinces them that there really are no contradictions, and that you are just a tool of their devil. They will not have the mental abilities to comprehend the self-serving nature of those arguments, and will simply dismiss everything you've said as a clever ruse of some evil entity.

[ddeclue]

25. You are very obviously from New York and don't know what you're talking about..

I've lived much of my life in the Deep South and know what I'm doing.. perhaps YOU shouldn't try..

:rofl:

[customerserviceguy]

So, tell us about your long-term successes

with getting people to see that there are inherent contradictions in their religious worldviews. I'm genuinely interested to know how it's done.

[ddeclue]

27. I've already explained it to you.. it shuts them up and sends them away dazed and confused.

I've done it many many many times in the last 20 years to people who want to proselytize me on their conservative world view, their Rush Limbaugh radio program, etc., etc. you use their own world view in their own words against them - it's far more effective than using an obviously liberal argument for which they have already been pre-programmed to dismiss and ridicule. It's much much harder for them to ridicule you when you defeat their own arguments using their own rhetoric.

Doug D.

[Uncle Joe]

18. Jesus wouldn't turn anyone down, not even Glen Beck.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x352227

[ithinkmyliverhurts]

21. Any healthcare provided by Christ was simply a foretaste of the resurrection

and the real healing at stake--triumph over death. I assumed this is Christianity 101. When death is actually taken out of the equation (which is what the resurrection amounts to--the end of death), the health care debates seem a little moot at that point. Or, on a larger scale, why attempt to create a paradise on earth when it already is one; you just have to pay attention (and fast, and pray, attend church, give alms, give more alms, fast, pray, confess, take communion, give alms, etc.). The Kingdom of God is within/in the midst of you.

Am I the only one who hasn't been polluted by the fundy narrative of the angry, alcoholic father God? How anyone could worship that devil I do not know.

[ddeclue]

26. You clearly are ignoring my actual argument and arguing against something else that I didn't say.

:eyes:

[ithinkmyliverhurts]

28. I don't see an argument.

I see a the Parable of the Good Samaritan. I don't see an exegesis of said passage. I see the words "Who would Jesus deny health care?" This isn't really an argument. I was trying to point out that perhaps you're missing a larger question when invoking Jesus. The Parable of the Good Samaritan was largely understood, at least within the first 1500 years of the church as the way in which Christ heals people by bringing them into the church (the Inn representing the church, the wine and the oil as representing sacraments--communion and unction). But the entirety of this healing is predicated upon Christ's death and resurrection (which leads to the eradication of death).

If you want to historicize the passage, then you really ought to look at Leviticus 19.17-33. It seems that this entire parable is a meditation on this passage and the various rabbinic debates that surrounded it at the time (and even today).

If you're trying to argue that Christ is arguing that one ought to be kind, then you're most certainly correct. But he's hardly original here. There are plenty of 1st century Jewish teachers preaching this. This is why I tried to point to a larger context for all of his teachings. If death is no longer, then why be selfish, why worry about one's own starvation, one's own plenitude, one's own life ("for no greater love is there than this that a man lay down his life for another"). I was just trying to give the passage more context--and perhaps even the health care debate more context.

Cheers.

[ddeclue]

29. Then you misread the parable..

It's about "love thy neighbor" and taking care of people who you don't really think ARE your neighbors. It ties in nicely with Matthew 25:30-25:45.

[deaniac21]

22. I wish I could get some o that Lazerus healthcare.

[Maru Kitteh]

23. LOVE THY NEIGHBOR

I've thought about sporting that on a bumper sticker with a stethoscope graphic.

[DearAbby]

30. Jesus said to the Woman

touching the hem of his garment to be healed. "Verily verily I say unto you, TOUCH ME NOT, THOU LAZY GOOD FOR NOTHING SLACKER! THOU HAST NO INSURANCE!!" - New revised Republican Version of the Bible.


Jesus after raising Lazarus from the dead."Thou must fill out these forms, in triplicate...Please sign here, here and here...initial here and here and oh yes, here." - New revised Republican Version of the Bible.