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Dissent is no longer the highest form of patriotism. Agree or disagree?

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timeforpeace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-06-09 11:51 PM
Original message
Dissent is no longer the highest form of patriotism. Agree or disagree?
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Lex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-06-09 11:52 PM
Response to Original message
1. I agree that it is, but being a misinformed loudmouth isn't informed dissent.
nt

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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-06-09 11:56 PM
Response to Reply #1
8. We have our WINNUR!
And some lovely parting gifts for other contestants.
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-07-09 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #1
43. Pseudo dissent. The so-called dissent actually reinforces the authoritative position.
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Arctic Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-06-09 11:53 PM
Response to Original message
2. Obstructionism is hard to classify as dissent.
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-06-09 11:53 PM
Response to Original message
3. Disagree.
To dissent is at the very core of traditional "Americanism".


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Hugabear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-06-09 11:56 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Dissent just for the sake of dissent is no core value
In the past, whenever protesters dissented, they usually had an alternative solution. These mobs are not offering anything substantive, they're dissenting for the sheer purpose of intimidating and bullying others into submission.
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Fire_Medic_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-07-09 01:30 AM
Response to Reply #5
17. No core value for you. Status quo for them which they obviously like.
Many of them are seniors that are scared that the quality of their health care will diminish.
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-07-09 02:30 AM
Response to Reply #5
24. I suppose it would depend on the motivation and/or purpose of that dissent.
dis⋅sent
to disagree with the methods, goals, etc., of a political party or government; take an opposing view.

I assume that you are referring to, what I define as, the reich-wing followers of the parasite class. Do they dissent from the basis of a genuine disagreement over policy and methodology, or do they simply participate in a staged event with no understanding of the issues or their consequences because their leaders tell them to do so?

The former would justify debate and discussion, but I feel the latter is not really dissent, rather the mindless obedience that is the defining characteristic of far too many Americans of both parties and the chief reason we are in the predicament in which we find ourselves.


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BattyDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-06-09 11:55 PM
Response to Original message
4. What's happening at the town hall meetings is NOT dissent!
It's an organized effort to prevent ordinary citizens from talking to their congressional representatives about healthcare and other issues that matter to them. It was bad enough when they were simply being obnoxious and shouting RW talking points, but now they're getting aggressive. They're using fear and intimidation to stop the democratic process.

It's not dissent - it's terrorism.


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Birthmark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-06-09 11:56 PM
Response to Original message
6. Nothing wrong with dissent.
But it has to stop short of thuggery.
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chrisa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-06-09 11:56 PM
Response to Original message
7. Agreed.
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scheming daemons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-06-09 11:57 PM
Response to Original message
9. Dissent is "I disagree with you"... not.. "I want to KILL YOU for being wrong!"
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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-07-09 12:02 AM
Response to Reply #9
12. Has this ever happened in all of American history?
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scheming daemons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-07-09 12:51 AM
Response to Reply #12
15. Um... yeah.... 1861 for starters......
...and numerous other times as well.

Race-riots in the south in the 50s and 60s.


Union-busting by corporations using thugs....


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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-07-09 10:32 AM
Response to Reply #15
37. This is hardly equivalent to the civil war or the race riots.
This is a minority political party using their corporate masters and about 5000 of their most insane followers to squelch democracy for the majority. It's unprecedented.
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Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-06-09 11:58 PM
Response to Original message
10. Patriotism should not be something of convenience.
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UTUSN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-06-09 11:58 PM
Response to Original message
11. K&R to undo the UnRekk (for now)!1 I can't imagine why a legitimate topic be UnRekked n/t
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-07-09 12:48 AM
Response to Original message
13. Dissent, done politely, is fine. Dissent which makes it impossible
for ANY other voices to be heard, particularly those in the fucking MAJORITY, is not ok.

Disorderly conduct is not the same thing as dissent.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-07-09 12:49 AM
Response to Original message
14. There's a difference between being a clueless hectoring crackpot, and
disagreeing with a government policy or program based on honest KNOWLEDGE of what that program entails.

When you say "dissent," if you don't mean "INFORMED dissent" you're not being true to the original meaning of the sentence.

Crazed rantings by misinformed asswipes isn't dissent. That's behavior that is the result of clueless nitwits buying off on pure propaganda.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-07-09 02:24 AM
Response to Reply #14
23. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-07-09 02:39 AM
Response to Reply #23
26. "you lot"? You call us "left-wingers" yet think partisan stuff is nonsense? Troll.
Edited on Fri Aug-07-09 02:41 AM by uppityperson
Why are you here except to disrupt?
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-07-09 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #26
38. Shit--what did I miss?
Obviously someone threw an insult...but it's gone now! Is the poster gone, too?
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-07-09 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #38
42. 2 posts troll
they left my insult elsewhere stand though deleted the troll's comment.

Just a typical "sign up and flame out" type.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-07-09 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #42
45. I wonder if that's the same nut who has sent me profanity-laced PMs?
That idiot had no creativity, either!
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-07-09 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #45
47. name for you, was on my reverse buddy list. briefly.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-08-09 04:43 AM
Response to Reply #47
48. Heh heh!
"Reverse buddy list"..... :rofl:
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CitizenPatriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-07-09 02:49 AM
Response to Reply #23
27. the usual drivel
Edited on Fri Aug-07-09 02:50 AM by CitizenPatriot
from far right wing extremists who think if they hide under the cloak of being "independent" it will validate their false equivalencies between the two parties, thereby making violence as a form of dissent acceptable (and stopping any worthy examination of the facts, which only serves the Republican party in the current political atmosphere wherein they are constantly guilty of hypocrisy and much worse).

I see this argument everywhere there is a right winger expressing their first amendment rights; aka, repeating the talking points of Fox News.

Sorry, but I am subjected to way too many Republicans to not recognize this for what it is. I hear it everyday.

edited to add note about how this serves only one party.
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CitizenPatriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-07-09 08:35 AM
Response to Reply #27
32. and this AM we have the proof
here's another example of what I'm talking about.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/06/health-care-pr...

these people are so predictable. "just a mom, not with any party..." but i'm super concerned, don't want any of my neighbors to live because they got healthcare...yada yada

and whammo! u find out they're a lying republican operative.

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bluestateguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-07-09 01:18 AM
Response to Original message
16. Patriotism means standing with the President AND his policies
Anything less is giving direct aid and comfort to Al Qaeda.
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Fire_Medic_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-07-09 01:30 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. Good stuff. If only people here didn't really feel that way.
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csziggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-07-09 02:11 AM
Response to Reply #16
22. Who is that quote from? Tom DeLay? John McCain? Sara Palin?
I know it was said by one of the Repukes.
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ProgressiveProfessor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-07-09 01:51 AM
Response to Original message
19. If it was under Bush, then it is under Obama
Otherwise we are two faced asshats...AKA repukes
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mamaleah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-07-09 04:25 AM
Response to Reply #19
30. I agree.
And who wants to be an asshat? :D
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blogslut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-07-09 01:58 AM
Response to Original message
20. I like puppies
They're so cute and cuddly.
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timeforpeace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-07-09 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #20
46. When they become dogs they aren't. Agree or disagree? Pat?
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Nyquil Man Donating Member (189 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-07-09 02:02 AM
Response to Original message
21. Standing in someone's face and yelling may be dissent, but it isn't a high form of it. nt
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pinb1212 Donating Member (76 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-07-09 02:31 AM
Response to Original message
25. You can't have it both ways......
Edited on Fri Aug-07-09 02:33 AM by pinb1212
I'm 54 years old. Dissent is good, when I agree with it. Vietnam...Welfare reform(that's what they called it) ...Iraq
I was right.
All those other MFer's were wrong.
We need to shut them up!!!!!!
No.....time will tell us who is wrong.
I think......once or twice , I've been wrong.
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CitizenPatriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-07-09 02:56 AM
Response to Reply #25
28. so you're saying that
carrying signs protesting the war is the same thing as screaming over elected officials so that other Americans can't be heard?

Hmmm.

What about the objective?

Iraq Vets against the War protested in RNC and the DNC. Blackwater was unleashed on them at the RNC and no one ever heard their complaints, seeing as they were relegated to the "free speech zone" and then tear gassed.

they also protested at the DNC and Obama agreed to hear their complaints.

That is what they wanted; to be heard.

What do the tea baggers want? They are being heard. No one is stopping them from expressing their dissent.

We object to their purposeful obstruction of everyone else's right to be heard, and their purposeful and willful attempts (as noted in the leaked memos) to sto any meaningful debate from happening.

See how those two things differ?
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Juche Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-07-09 04:11 AM
Response to Original message
29. Dissent based on what
Edited on Fri Aug-07-09 04:12 AM by Juche
Dissent based on a desire for personal liberties and freedom carried out by an informed, passionate public against a tyrannical government? Yes.

Dissent based on low information voters with right wing authoritarian (aka protofascist) personality types who have their fears, prejudices and bigotries stoked and manipulated by corporate interests so they can be molded into useful idiot foot soldiers who oppose meaningful legislation designed to improve standards of living for Americans, legislation most of them don't understand the first thing about? No.
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voc Donating Member (279 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-07-09 04:27 AM
Response to Original message
31. disagree. nt
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zbdent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-07-09 10:21 AM
Response to Original message
33. I thought Descent was the highest form of Patriotic ...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

(at least we libs get the quote correct ...)
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Xenotime Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-07-09 10:22 AM
Response to Original message
34. Respect and compliance should be.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-07-09 10:25 AM
Response to Original message
35. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Lagomorph Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-08-09 06:44 AM
Response to Reply #35
50. Oh horse shit.
Let them bitch. When they start getting answers to their questions, most of them will got back to their La-Z-Boys.

Just tell them what's gonna be covered, what it's gonna cost them and they'll start crunching numbers and figuring out a way to deal with it.
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RightWingConspiracy Donating Member (1 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-08-09 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #35
52. Damn FIBs
Bring it, you moron. Come on across the border.

Crush me? Good luck with that. Don't ever threaten my family.
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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-07-09 10:25 AM
Response to Original message
36. Dissent is not the same as disruption
The aim of the Hooters is NOT dissension, but rather ENDING discourse.
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NoSheep Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-07-09 11:18 AM
Response to Original message
39. SCREAMING NONSENSE has never been considered patriotism.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-07-09 11:19 AM
Response to Original message
40. Dissent was never any higher than many other forms of patriotism
:shrug:
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Orsino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-07-09 11:21 AM
Response to Original message
41. I guess the greatest sacrifices would be the highest forms of patriotism.
I doubt that my DU posting history qualifies. :(
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WeDidIt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-07-09 11:25 AM
Response to Original message
44. Dissent is. Thuggery is criminal
DUers who raise objections to differences they have with Obama's policies?

Patriots

Freeper types who raise objections they have with Obama's policies?

Patriots

The Screamers and Birthers?

Thugs.
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orleans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-08-09 06:06 AM
Response to Original message
49. define "dissent"

"verb (used without object)
1. to differ in sentiment or opinion, esp. from the majority; withhold assent; disagree (often fol. by from): Two of the justices dissented from the majority decision.
2. to disagree with the methods, goals, etc., of a political party or government; take an opposing view.
3. to disagree with or reject the doctrines or authority of an established church."
noun 4. difference of sentiment or opinion.
5. dissenting opinion.
6. disagreement with the philosophy, methods, goals, etc., of a political party or government.
7. separation from an established church, esp. the Church of England; nonconformity.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/dissent
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opihimoimoi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-08-09 06:47 AM
Response to Original message
51. Nazi Brown Shirts is whot they are...that is not good for the System
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-08-09 09:02 PM
Response to Original message
53. Where is the OP and what are they (not) talking about?
DISCUSS :popcorn: Dance puppets, DANCE!!!!!!!!!!


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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-08-09 09:06 PM
Response to Original message
54. demanding Govt stay out of Medicare and demanding Congress get Govt Health Care is patriotic ?
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