Gates 911 caller speaks out

[sabrina 1]

Lucia Whalen spoke at a press conference today accompanied by her husband. She was very impressive, imo. Extremely intelligent and honest. That was also obvious in the 911 tape, once they released it, where she even mentioned the possibility that the men she saw may have lived there. She did not overreact or pretend to know anything she did not know. She seems like a very level-headed woman and it's sad to hear her say that she was the target of death threats and was accused of racism.



She was asked if there was a possibility that Officer Crowley had spoken to the elderly woman and became confused between her and Lucia Whalen. Her lawyer would not allow her to speak about the police report, only to say that she never described the men as black men and that since the tape had been released, the reaction to her has been more positive. She confirmed that she identified herself to Crowley when he arrived. That he told her to wait and that was all the conversation they had.

The full press conference with questions from reporters is here at msnbc's site:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/32206208#32204844

I think she did a great job, she was emotional as anyone would be about words she never said being attributed to her, but is happy that now that is cleared by the release of the tape.

I don't know how Crowley can explain his report especially since the second officer's report backs up Lucia Whalen also. Maybe he did speak to someone else, but he had seen Ms. Whalen when he arrived so should have recognized her.

[bbinacan]

1. Many here owe Mrs. Whalen

an apology. Some have, to their credit, but more need too.

[EFerrari]

4. No, Crowley owes her for attributing his racist garbage to her

and letting her take the flak for it.

What a hero he is.

[bbinacan]

9. And , as I said,

many here also owe her an apology.

[EFerrari]

12. Many here correctly picked up on a racist narrative.

Their only mistake was that it wasn't hers, it was Crowley's. And that's Crowley's fault.

edit: clarity

[bbinacan]

17. And they owe her

an apology.

[EFerrari]

18. Like so many things, this probably requires some leadership.

Let's have Jim Crow apologize and then everyone who defended the liar that put her in this position. Many posters to this board already have posted apologies. Bad cop defenders, not so much.

[Life Long Dem]

40. How many beers have you had anyway?

You keep saying the same thing over again. :yoiks:

[MajorChode]

85. It ain't gonna happen for many

Just look at the excuse given:

'It's someone else's fault I falsely accused someone of being a racist.'

When you never accept responsibility for anything you get wrong, there's never any need to apologize, right?

[EFerrari]

89. The only problem with this little piece of mendacity is that I never accused

this lady of anything. Otherwise, you're right on.

lol

[MajorChode]

109. I didn't claim you did

If I was accusing you of such I would have replied to you directly.

Rather I took issue with the apologist excuse used by others (who will remain unnamed) which you happened to repeat.

[sabrina 1]

11. It took them a week before the released

the 911 tape. I don't know if that's normal or not. I also don't remember when we heard that the caller said the men she saw were black. But she was characterized by many as a white woman who was certain there was a crime in progress because the men she saw were black. Someone should have corrected that.

So far, the cop has not said anything about his report. And he definitely owes her an apology. The whole Dept. owes her an apology. The woman was frightened by the calls she was receiving. She hasn't said if she called the police about it.

[EFerrari]

13. She was characterized as a white woman because that's how Crowley

wrote it up. His story: White woman in distress calls in about two black suspects. That version of the story went out first and for days.

Crowley has said he stands by his report. What a gentleman he is.

/oops

[sabrina 1]

16. I don't know how he can stand by that report

with all the evidence proving his report was wrong. But, as Obama said, the cops acted stupidly. The fact he has not yet apologized and given some explanation, makes me wonder will he continue to act stupidly and try to back up his report. I think that's one of the reasons the lawyer won't allow her to talk about the report at all. That, and a possible lawsuit.

[sabrina 1]

110. .

[timeforpeace]

8. You're right. Many more.

[EFerrari]

15. You bad cop defenders first -- because the bad cop you were defending

caused this whole episode for her. Crowley put words in her mouth and you defended him.

[bbinacan]

19. "You bad cop defenders first "

What does that even mean?

[EFerrari]

22. It means that any of you who defended this guy no matter what

and even as the evidence started to pile up should be the very first ones to apologize to this lady who owes the sum of the distress she's suffered to a lying cop.

Is that more clear?

[bbinacan]

30. Yes,

but shouldn't the knee-jerkers here apologize for calling Whalen a racist?

[EFerrari]

33. Ken Burch already posted a whole thread for that. Sure.

[sabrina 1]

14. Anyone who jumped to conclusions about her without

knowing any of the facts, definitely owe her an apology. She was first attacked for being a white racist, then attacked for contradicting the cops. And there will still be defenders of the cops who will not believe that the conversation in Crowley's report never took place. She says she would call again if she was a witness to a possible crime, but what is happening to her would make anyone think twice about getting involved.

The cops should have taken the trouble to defend her right from the start. Maybe they did, but I don't remember reading it anywhere.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

47. Blame, blame, blame -

without all the facts.

Maybe that's the "teachable moment"?

[DeadEyeDyck]

76. but you never know when you know all the facts until all the

facts are out. At any given moment in time, you only know what you know. Often, you are not aware that additional facts exist.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

86. True, but there comes a time

when any "new" information is repetitious or redundant, and then you can pretty safely draw your own conclusions.

Of course, in this particular matter, it doesn't matter what the great masses think - including you and me. But it's been - and continues to be - a fascinating exercise in any number of dimensions. I've loved watching it unfold, watching what people say, how it's being processed.

Lots of teachable moments, but I wonder, in reality, how many lessons really will be learned....................................

[NoSheep]

2. The cop acted stupidly. n/t

[BuyingThyme]

3. What is the pitch lawyers use when they approach people like Mrs. Whalen?

What do they get?

[godai]

5. Probably millions if Whalen sues the police.

Lawyer probably gets nothing upfront and maybe 50% of a successful lawsuit.

[BuyingThyme]

7. Ohhhh... It's a lawsuit deal...

[DURHAM D]

6. And why hasn't she been invited to the White House tomorrow...

Its obviously just a guy thing. Its important for guys to bond and come to a new understanding - ya' know, to advance the national dialog on race.

She is just a woman. Who cares? F her.

:sarcasm:

[BuyingThyme]

10. She might be an alcoholic.

[rantormusing]

20. I just saw her crying on the tv

and was wondering what her deal was, i hadn't heard much about her on the Gate's pieces i've come across. I remember one offhand comment i read on another blog, but that's it. WHo the hell was sending her deaththreats?

[BuyingThyme]

23. Welcome to DU, Rantormusing!

:hi:

I suspect some assholes had a problem with the version of events publicly attributed to her and put their assholism to work via telephone.

[-..__...]

21. Hmmmm, "target of death threats"....

Now whom do you suppose would be doing that?

Highly unlikely that it would be LEOs, racists or racist organizations.

Sensationalist media members maybe? (I know they're opportunistic, fact twisting parasites, but even I'd question if they'd stoop that low).

Obama? Gates? DU'ers? Freepers? Never happened?

Sooo.. whom would be calling this woman up with "death threats"?

[Lerkfish]

25. obviously only gun owners would make death threats.

(said to annoy you, tongue in cheek)

:)

[-..__...]

38. You're on my "death threat" list too!

:)

[EFerrari]

26. Let's see. She's shown the cop is a liar. Who would benefit from scaring her?

Who would like her to shut the fuck up?

Dr. Gates thanked her publicly days ago.

[-..__...]

45. " Who would like her to shut the fuck up?"

At this point (hypocritical as it might seem),... who wouldn't like everyone to "shut the fuck up"?

Given the way the media has portrayed her, which side would seem most likely to slander her and issue "death threats"?

[EFerrari]

46. That was my question. Who has more to lose the more she talks?

lol

[-..__...]

50. Which side condemned her from the get got?

You've been following this controversy long enough to know the anger and hatred expressed here on DU towards her before her press conference.

There is no win/lose/benefit regarding this incident... only anger, and where was most of that anger towards Whalen arising from?

[EFerrari]

52. Wrong. People who objected to the racist narrative were right.

It just so happened, it wasn't HER racist narrative but Crowley's. That model officer set up this woman for a world of hurt without even a second thought.

And you're also wrong about the no win/lose/benefit here. The racists are clearly losing because decent people like this lady are stepping up. You don't get or hold civil rights over a beer. You get them because you raise your voice.

[-..__...]

60. When seconds count...

the police are just a few minutes away.

Now seriously... assuming all (or part of), of Crowley's report is either fabrication, exaggeration, outright lies, truthful or a brain fart... do you really think he had considered, planned, (post thought/after thought), to "set up this woman"?

I'm willing to bet that he never even considered or thought of the ensuing shit-storm that would follow...
let alone dragging an innocent woman into it.

That was all perpetuated by the media (and to a less meaningful extent), by posters here.

[EFerrari]

69. LOL! When seconds count?

Oh, please. The police usually show up long after seconds count for anything.

And now you're shifting the blame to the media? CNN didn't write that fakery Crowley did.

That Jim didn't figure out his actions have consequences just makes him a good potential Amway salesman.

[-..__...]

82. Threw that out there as analogous joke...

if they can't respond in time, what makes you think that they can think in time? (ahhh... never mind, it's "gun culture" humor).

CNN, MSNBC, ABC, CBS, etc certainly didn't help matters any by reporting or investigating the "facts" beforehand.

And the 'enlightened' people here rushed to judgment and ripped Whelan every which way... upside and down, forwards and backwards accusing her of being a "racist".

I guess the reporting one chooses to believe is rooted in their politics rather than what actually happened.

[seabeyond]

58. i questioned, not condemned, why she saw backpacks, not luggage. why she didnt see carried in

guess what.... she saw luggage and saw them walk in and suggest that they may be the home owners

blame is crowleys for lying

[sabrina 1]

28. She didn't say, but there was a lot of anger

towards her after the police report made it seem that she had wrongfully reported a crime and blamed 'black men'. The cop also said she was 'white'. People defending the cop were not unhappy with her until it became clear she was challenging his report.

So, take your pick. Who is more likely to make death threats, liberals or rightwingers? She was place in a situation she never should have been in.

[Gwendolyn]

44. It doesn't make even the tiniest bit of difference if she had identified them as 'black men' or

if she were 'white' instead of Portuguese. All she did was report a potential crime and for that she got raked over the coals. People are trying to shift the balance of blame over to the cops for unduly influencing their mob mentality behavior, but anyone with half a brain can see through it.

What people on this thread imply is that if a white person witnesses a crime being committed by an African American, they need to look and walk away. Do NOT call the cops and accurately describe who you see. Lucia Whalen basically said as much, and it appears to be true.

[EFerrari]

48. Well, no. That Crowley FABRICATED a whole conversation with her should tell you

HE thought it was important for HER to say that the suspects were TWO BLACK MEN.

And no, people in this thread are not implying that if a white person sees a crime they shouldn't report what they see accurately. They're saying THE POLICE SHOULDN'T LIE AND INSERT RACE where there is not need to do that.

Is that so very, very hard for you to get? Or, do you think it's just fine for police officers to fake their reports and accuse fictional black males of crimes they didn't commit?

[LisaL]

54. You are so full of it.

The two men she saw trying to get into the house were in fact black. Had she gotten a better look and were able to describe what race they were, all of the sudden she would have become this horrible racist person?

[EFerrari]

55. Nope. She never said black to the police. That fact has been the subject

of multiple stories from multiple outlets and a press conference today.

You are out of touch.

[LisaL]

57. Read my post again.

[EFerrari]

59. She didn't see two black men. Deal with it. n/t

[LisaL]

63. I don't think you can comprehend what I am saying.

Yes she didn't know what races the men were. But in case she did, how would it make her a racist?
How is giving a description which police asks for makes someone a racist?

[EFerrari]

75. Giving the police a description doesn't make you a racist. And that's exactly why

the racist asshole Jim Crowley forwarded his racist crap under the cover of a fake witness's statement. Because he knew that no one would question it.

What a hero he is.

[Gwendolyn]

81. What did he say that was racist, other than describing the two men who were there.

This is all bordering on the delusional.

Btw... you know she did imply that one of the two could have been Hispanic. OMG!!!!! Death of a thousand cuts for HER!!! She must be a racist and a bigot. Oh no wait, she could be hispanic too. Never mind.

[EFerrari]

90. LOL. He made up a whole conversation that never happened.

And, gasp, he made two black men the stars of that conversation.

lol

[sabrina 1]

62. If she had actually seen two black men close enough to be

sure, there would not be a problem. The implication has been that she did not see them, but ASSUMED they must be black. She assumed nothing, that is what she wanted to be clear about. This is all the fault of the report by Crowley who has yet to explain why he said what he said.

And if people do end up not calling the police, it will not be because they don't want to report a crime being committed by black people, as someone suggested, it will be out of fear of a false police report placing them in the situation this woman is now in.

This apparently is not unusual as the other case of four cops writing a false report on the driver in Florida demonstrates. It is a real problem and it needs to be dealt with, and for that reason alone, I am glad this woman is setting the record straight.

[LisaL]

66. There was no implication that she didn't see them but assumed

they must be black. How on Earth did you come up with that idea?
Everybody assumed she had seen them. No one claimed she didn't see them but assumed they were black. That's absurd.

[Gwendolyn]

67. Yes, that's basically what's being said. People don't recognize their own bigotry.

[LisaL]

70. Exactly.

She didn't get a good look, wasn't able to describe the men or answer the questions.
Apparently if she had gotten a better look, and could have described the men, she would have all of the sudden become a racist.
Simply mind boggling.

[bridgit]

84. I think that's right. People's preference is to think bigotry, racism, understanding, respect...

love, and a whole bunch of other stuff along similar lines; but that they are all cul-de-saced one-way streets...they are not they're two-way

[EFerrari]

92. LOL

[dkf]

104. I thought the second guy was Moroccan?

Isn't that Middle Eastern, not black?

[Karenina]

106. Oh, good grief...

:banghead:

[Gwendolyn]

56. It doesn't tell me that at all, and since I'm not bigoted and full of presumptions...

it never once occurred to me that it should matter at all who called, or that she might've accurately described the two men at the scene. Who gives a shit? Did the police report have some extra copy written in code that spoke about her "racism"? Because all I saw were cut and dry details about who was who. Nothing about anyone's personal beliefs or bigotry. (And there was no "fictional' invention of two black males so you're just inserting that hyperbole out of thin air.)

People started labeling her from the first sketchy "breaking news" stories, calling her out as a fu*king WHITE racist old busybody. So racist she didn't even know her own neighbor. And from there the sickening stories about her flew off the shelves like summer sale at Macy's. That was before the police report. It was only, what, yesterday that she came forward, and suddenly, well she ISN'T white, so that's good, and she DIDN'T identify two black males, and that's triply good. Talk about racism and bigotry. Lol.

You keep making that point over and over by claiming it was all about the police report and if nobody had thought SHE was white, and nobody had thought she identified potential intruders by their skin color, she wouldn't be in this mess. So yeah, that leads me to believe that in America today, racism/bigotry, and the urge to skin people alive when you know nothing about them, is basically how it is. It's all politics, and hate and bigotry come in all colors and flavors. If you call the cops because you're witnessing something, do not describe the person unless they are white.

[LisaL]

61. The posters here can blame it on Crowley's report all they want,

but there is nothing in the report to indicate this woman was engaging in any kind of racial profiling.
Even if she told the police the men appeared to be black (which she says she didn't), that wouldn't have made her a racist, but simply someone who was able to give a description.

[sabrina 1]

71. It would make her a racist if she wasn't close enough to see

them but made an assumption they were black. And some people came to that conclusion from the news reports. I'm not defending those people at all, but the reality is such people do exist and many people do not bother to check for themselves but just jump on the band-wagon that best suits their purpose. It is a human failing and the reason why the tape should have been released as soon as possible, and any mistakes in the police report, corrected.

[LisaL]

72. Nobody was suggesting she wasn't close enough to see.

In fact most people were upset she didn't recognize Dr.Gates as apparently everybody should be able to recognize him.

[EFerrari]

79. She said she wasn't close enough to see. Does she count?

[sabrina 1]

80. People were suggesting that. All over the internet a lot was being

said because nothing was made clear by those in authority. Why, eg, has Crowley said he is standing by his report when there are now three strong pieces of evidence to prove this woman is telling the truth, including his fellow officer's report?

This whole case was mis-handled from the beginning. People are human and they make mistakes. It's much better to admit a mistake than try to cover it up (which is human I know especially under these circumstances). But, they waited far too long to correct the mistakes, although I suppose they too have to worry about being mis-represented.

If people would just learn not to jump to conclusions, but they do ~ that is one fact everyone can agree on.

[LisaL]

99. You are the only one I've seen suggesting that.

How in the world would somebody claim she was too far too see the men before her 911 call became public? How do you know where she were?

[sabrina 1]

107. I'm glad you're speaking only for yourself.

The police report was online on the 20th of this month, then it was taken down. After reading the report, several people asked the question 'how could she tell what ethnicity the men were'? So, if I'm the only one you've seen suggesting that other people believed she made assumptions based on race, that doesn't make it so, just as it didn't make it so that she was making assumptions.

[sabrina 1]

93. Yes, they were assuming she was not close enought to see them

and that is why some people were calling her a racist. You many not have read some of the comments on different boards, or heard the callers to radio talk shows, or heard the calls she was receiving according to her statment, but people DID assume she was a racist because they thought she just assumed the men were black without actually seeing them. Is that stupid, yes, but that's what happened.

[EFerrari]

77. But nobody described a black suspect, that's the point.

Crowley fabricated that. And so, he is to blame for injecting race into this lady's life. He did that.

[EFerrari]

64. No, the point I keep making was that this lady was put through a week of hell

because Crowley put words in her mouth.

And your lesson should be, do not make shit up and especially not in an incident report. But you have to make it about how abused white people are.

That's hilarious.

lol

[LisaL]

68. There is nothing in that report that would suggest the woman

was a racist.
Whoever put the lady through the week of hell can blame it on the report all they want. Nothing in there suggests anything they were blaming her for.

[EFerrari]

73. The police report is what was used by the media. You do the math.

[Gwendolyn]

83. No she was put through a week of hell because people like you put her through it.

You basically can't wrap your head around the fact that a very dry police report said absolutely nothing about who this woman was as a person. You made it work for your own agenda, and it's honestly pathetic. You just can't face up to it that you were involved in a mob mentality, flay this woman, message board fiasco because YOU thought she was white, and YOU didn't like the idea that she might've described two black males over the phone. Had she done so, it would've been completely accurate. She actually did hypothesize that one of the males was hispanic. Shouldn't you now be taking up that cause? How was that any better than saying they might be black, other than she was completely wrong and according to your assessments, that would make her obviously racist?

And no, I don't think white people are abused. Except in the sense that they also get attitude arrested every day just like Gates was. E. I'm going to leave you to all this. Gates is probably enjoying Martha's Vineyard, or a fab night at the White House right now. He probably wishes it would all go away, but whatever happens, he'll fly first class. You keep pounding away at this night and day though.

[EFerrari]

88. Actually, "people like me" didn't post a cross word about her.

And that you envy Skip Gates' success is your problem. Good luck with that.

[Gwendolyn]

94. You're a fool. Plain and simple.

I don't envy Skip Gates at all. He must have been very lonely to go off on a police officer.

Nobody who is happy would do that. And sure you did post shit about her. You know you did.

[EFerrari]

97. Nope. Not a word. In the majors, someone with your batting average

would be sent back to the farm team.

[Gwendolyn]

100. So you never found it great she was Portuguese instead of "white?"

Really, you never made a distinction? Not once?

Edited to add: how come it doesn't bother you "the woman" made a comment about the one guy being apparently hispanic? You still haven't addressed that although you have big opinions about race and who is racist?

[EFerrari]

102. I never criticized Whalen for calling in a potential burglary.

And I'd never criticize a witness calling in the best description she could, which is obviously what she did. Why should that bother me?

And as to her own appearance, the point there was that in addition to fabricating a story about two black suspects, Crowley also fabricated his witness's appearance which made it easy to figure out who was acting in good faith and who was lying his ass off.

[sabrina 1]

49. The problem is, she wouldn't have been

a target of anyone, if the cop had not mischaracterized her and either lied, or was very confused about a conversation he said took place, which apparently did not.

He could have ended it by saying he was mistaken and given some reason for why he wrote that report, which he may have. But instead, he said he stands by it.

I certainly do not blame her for wanting to set the record straight. I doubt we'd have heard from her at all if it were not for the erroneous report for Crowley.

[UTUSN]

24. Frankly, my dear (whomever dear might be), she's an IDIOT and CAUSED A PROBLEM!1 n/t

[EFerrari]

27. Not really. She tried to look out for the neighborhood

and she busted the model cop for inserting race into his report.

She's a good lady.

[UTUSN]

29. When you give me the Red Beret, I'm going to do all kinds of unpredictable things!1 n/t

[EFerrari]

LOL. I'm partial to rasberry myself.

I'm glad this lady got to have her say. :)

[sabrina 1]

32. Yep, that's all true. But she has tried so hard not to

blame anyone for anything, just to set the record straight. In the interview she said she respects the Cambridge police and Prof. Gates but wants people to know the facts.

It's amazing that the cop has said he is standing by his report. That doesn't look good in terms of resolving this. Someone grown-up needs to talk to that guy. Again, he is missing an opportunity to end this whole mess, just as he did at Prof. Gates' home.

[EFerrari]

35. She was great, from start to finish. What a horrible week she must have had.

Cambridge is going to be holding meetings to review their policy but the missing element here is Crowley taking even a little responsibility for his behavior. And it's too bad. He has a young family.

[bbinacan]

37. Agreed,

but she was accused of being a racist here on DU. I just want those people to apologize. That's all.

[bbinacan]

31. Idiot?

Look in the mirror.

[UTUSN]

39. Don't forget to call the (authoritarians) ON ME !1 n/t

[EFerrari]

42. Oh, no you don't. I saw you first!!111

:rofl:

[bbinacan]

43. ?

[sabrina 1]

34. Did you forget a snark tag?

How is she an idiot, assuming you are serious?

[EFerrari]

36. I think any sentence that ends this way !!111

has a snark tag.

[sabrina 1]

51. Okay, lol I missed that! n/t

[bbinacan]

41. Who are you and

why should I care? The one who called Whalen an idiot is an idiot.

Welcome to DU, I think.

[seabeyond]

65. she did fine calling it in. crowley did fine confirming residency. from there, crowley fucked up.

[ConnorMarc]

53. Good For Her

I'm so glad that she's speaking up for herself.

I'm even more glad that the 911 call tape was released and there is absolutely no evidence corroborating Occifer Crowley's claim that Professor Gates was screaming so loud that he couldn't hear anything in the house. If that were true, you would have heard Skip clearly acting "loud and tumultuous." However, we see from the tape that Crowley has shown himself to be more than willing to lie when its convenient for him to do so.

Yes, I said "occifer."

[blondeatlast]

74. Welcome to DU! I prefer the term "Orifice Crowley," but to each his/her own.

:hi:

[ConnorMarc]

78. Hi

So how do I create my own thread in this place? I think I can bring some more excitement to this party.

:D

[sabrina 1]

91. Hi and welcome

To start your own thread go the forum you want to post in, 'Latest Breaking News' or whatever, look at the icons at the top of the page 'latest' 'greatest' etc. Click on 'post' and you'll be there. However, I'm not sure of this, but if you just signed up, you might have to wait a few days to post your own thread. I forget to be honest, maybe someone else knows.

[Fumesucker]

95. You have to get a certain number of posts before you can create an OP (original post)

No one but the admins know what the number is but it isn't very large.

Welcome to DU, BTW..

[defendandprotect]

87. K&R -- must have been very frightening time for her . . .

And I had no idea at the time, especially the severity of the threats against her --

Ms Whalen has now made truth work for herself and all of us now -- and I think for Gates,

as well. PLUS, it's woken us all up again to the reality that "racism" is still alive

in America and especially in our police departments!

[EFerrari]

108. People have expressed frustration that any time is being spent on this

when we need the health care conversation and so many other ones.

After all these years of Republican control, *this* conversation is as sorely needed as any of the other ones, imho.

[Quantess]

96. Upon reading this thread and others like it, I wonder.....

how people find so much time to post about quotidian trifles, all flippin' day. Does someone pay you? If so, how do I get in on it?

[Gwendolyn]

98. No you get paid for your real job, which if it's halfway creative, you can't face it...

...then you stay up all night doing everything you couldn't during the day, and in between you post on message boards with bigots, and that somehow inspires you to slog on. Inspired by, you're not like them or something.

[Quantess]

101. But I thought most halfway-creative jobs were already cut.

If there were only a harvest for the fat on those butts, sitting there posting all day, we could have, at the very least, a new cooking oil.

[Gwendolyn]

103. I'm sure the fat from my ass would make a fine cooking oil.

:D Meager as it is. The creative jobs were cut, but now we've moved to a new dimension. It's called damage control, semi-creative. At least, that's what I call it.

And even though I threatened all night, now I'm out for real.

[Quantess]

105. Don't worry, no one will put an oil well on your butt cheek.

:D