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Has anyone heard about a $3 million project for a turtle culvert?

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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 10:13 PM
Original message
Has anyone heard about a $3 million project for a turtle culvert?
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NYC_SKP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 10:14 PM
Response to Original message
1. No, but it sounds reasonable to me. Turtles were there before we were. n/t
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The Stranger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 10:16 PM
Response to Original message
2. Was that after some fuckwads built a road through the turtles' habitat?
And cars would speed by and smash them like the sound of a rapid fire machine gun?

I say spend the money on the culvert, or better yet move the road and the fuckwads out of there.
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lindisfarne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Or perhaps an airport?
Edited on Sun Jul-19-09 10:21 PM by lindisfarne
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unapatriciated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 10:23 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. pretty much
Edited on Sun Jul-19-09 10:27 PM by unapatriciated
Laugh if you will, but state transportation officials and wildlife researchers say a $3.4 million pair of tunnels under a busy North Florida highway is a serious safety project -- for people, too.

A hearty national guffaw began when Sen. Tom Coburn, R-Okla., released a list of 100 items he called wasteful in President Obama's federal stimulus package. The Lake Jackson "eco-passage," a few miles north of Florida's capitol, caught national media attention.

But Kevin Thibault, assistant secretary for engineering and operations in the state Department of Transportation, said the "turtle tunnel" ridicule missed a couple of salient points. First, the money won't detract from interstate highways or airports, but will come from a small "enhancement" pot that is set aside for just such work.

And second, the twin tunnels under a four-lane stretch of U.S. 27 north of Tallahassee will be big enough for a deer to scamper through -- thus making the road a lot safer for motorists who don't want to hit one at 50 or 60 miles an hour. An alligator or turtle can be a highly hazardous speed bump in the dark, said DOT spokesman Dick Kane.

"The federal stimulus package that was passed by Congress funded a lot of transportation and safety projects," said Thibault.........

Jack Kostrzewa, planning manager for the Capital Regional Transportaiton Planning Agency, and Matt Aresco, director of the Nokuse Plantation wildlife preserve in Walton County, said U.S. 27 would never be built as it is if today's environmental standards were in place 50 years ago. Aresco said about 62 species need to cross the road in the forests around Lake Jackson.

http://www.tallahassee.com/article/20090621/BREAKINGNEW...
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 10:29 PM
Response to Reply #8
16. Thanks, this is probably it.
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guitar man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-20-09 09:18 AM
Response to Reply #8
30. Sounds reasonable to me
As a biker, I can safely say that hitting a turtle at 70mph is no fun, it's a sure fire way for the rider and machine to end up in a bad way. They can be difficult to spot and avoid in the dark.
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angstlessk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 10:16 PM
Response to Original message
3. why? you got a turtle?
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 10:20 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. No, my inlaws mentioned it today.
I was wondering where they got it from.
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sixstrings75 Donating Member (173 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-20-09 09:04 AM
Response to Reply #7
28. Long Point, Ontario, Canada. Looking at putting one in...


There is 2.5 mile or so road, some call it a causeway, from the 'mainland' to Long Point, ON, Canada. Hundreds of turtles get run over every year. I think I heard somewehre that this was the solution they were going to try...Not sure on the cost either...

I only live a few miles from there.
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LLStarks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 10:20 PM
Response to Original message
5. It is a bit much to spend for the sake of turtles. nt
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imdjh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 10:28 PM
Response to Reply #5
12. These are Florida turtles. Everything in Florida is ten times the normal size and poisonous.
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unapatriciated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 10:32 PM
Response to Reply #5
17. It's not just turtles over 60 species cross at jackson lake florida, see my post up thread.
plus it is a safety issue for drivers.
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greguganus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 10:37 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. Shouldn't the turtle tunnels be too small for alligators...
...to use to keep them from living in them and eating the turtles?
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Donnachaidh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 10:51 PM
Response to Reply #5
23. do you know just how much turtle habitat is destroyed each year to build housing?
I live in an area that had quite a bit of natural box turtle habitat that was literally plowed under, so some yuppie could have a McMansion. There was no environmental impact studies done, nothing to take into account the boxies or any of the other wildlife that would be forced into the traffic, or into areas that didn't want these creatures. We've personally saved at least a dozen from becoming road pizza on heavily traveled roads.

Now quite a few of those areas have houses that are being foreclosed on, because of the housing slump. That land would have been better off left alone. But someone's greed got in the way.
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The Stranger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-20-09 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #5
32. Too many people on the planet.
Each one wants a house, endless energy, and food, and transportation, obliterating ecosystems.

Too many people on the planet.
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 10:20 PM
Response to Original message
6. The woman I know who is a turtle rehabilitator would approve. As do I, if it's a migratory
route or something of that nature. I'd rather spend it on turtle culverts than investigating something like Bill Clinton's penile activities. We could have built 33 turtle culverts for what that cost us. or maybe 17 Deluxe turtle culverts.
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underseasurveyor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 10:23 PM
Response to Original message
9. I have but don't remember where it was.
The controversy is how can anyone justify spending money on building a turtle tunnel under a highway in this economy. Google will probably bring up something.

My vote is for the turtles :-)
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unapatriciated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 10:29 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. It's not just turtles over 60 species cross at jackson lake florida, see my post up thread.
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MarthaM Donating Member (73 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 10:25 PM
Response to Original message
10. Maybe this?
I don't know anything about it; this just came up on google.

http://www.examiner.com/x-16781-Tallahassee-Conservativ...
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FarCenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 10:27 PM
Response to Original message
11. I thnk it is $6 million for this one
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unapatriciated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 10:37 PM
Response to Reply #11
21. it is that one but it's 3.4 and necessary.
see article posted up thread.
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FarCenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 10:43 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. It is 3.4 from the stimulus package, but there has/will be addtional money spent
I don't agree that it is necessary. Are cars sliding off the road?
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unapatriciated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 10:59 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. Just a lot of wildlife deaths but gee that's not important,
"It's a safety issue," said Kostrezewa. "We're trying to separate wildlife from the road."

That might require a spatula, for too many turtles. The North Florida Ecopassage Web site counted 2,070 turtle fatalities per year in the area, more than 20 times the second-highest location, Paynes Prarie near Gainesville.

Thibault said "there are a lot of these types of crossings" around the state, for black bears, the Florida Panther and other critters trying to coexist with the intrusion of traffic, housing and business into once-wilderness lands across the state.

"There's a lot of misinformation about it. It's not a turtle crossing, it's a wildlife passage," said Kostrezewa. "It's a safety issue in an environmentally sensitive area."

http://www.tallahassee.com/article/20090621/BREAKINGNEW...
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FarCenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-20-09 09:14 AM
Response to Reply #24
29. So put up a chain link fence
The project calls for the replacement of the existing culvert, which doesn't appear to need replacing.

It adds a second culvert.

The new culverts are a more expensive concrete box culvert, instead of the existing steel culverts.

The picture I've seen of the proposed wall shows something that probably won't keep a deer off the highway. And it looks way more expensive than a chain link fence would.
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lumberjack_jeff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 10:28 PM
Response to Original message
13. If getting across the road is vital to their lifecycle...
... or if enough of them are killed in attempting to cross the road to jeopardize the species, or if they pose a large traffic problem, then it probably makes sense.

Although I have to wonder if trapping them at point a and transporting them to point b would be a more cost effective (and job creative) solution.
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handmade34 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 10:29 PM
Response to Original message
15. Yes
and I think it is a wonderful project
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 10:34 PM
Response to Original message
18. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
dysfunctional press Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 10:35 PM
Response to Original message
19. it's not just turtles, from what i recall...
and it's also a matter of safety for drivers- accidents have been caused by people trying to avoid large amphibians and reptiles, as well as people who can't avoid them.
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lexanman Donating Member (401 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-19-09 11:06 PM
Response to Original message
25. are you logged in?
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sinkingfeeling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-20-09 08:30 AM
Response to Original message
26. Yes, Florida wants to use $3.4 million to built it from the stimulus money.
Edited on Mon Jul-20-09 08:32 AM by sinkingfeeling
http://a.abcnews.com/Business/Economy/story?id=8045022&...

For instance, the Florida Department of Transportation wants to spend $3.4 million in stimulus money for a turtle tunnel. That's right, $3.4 million to help turtles cross under a highway. Each year, 1,035 turtles are killed on a half-mile stretch of highway north of Tallahassee, according to The Lake Jackson Ecopassage Alliance, a group advocating for the tunnel. They are hoping to use the stimulus dough to save the turtles.
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-20-09 08:31 AM
Response to Original message
27. I'm for it.
I like turtles. The natural world predates us.

We're guests, at best.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-20-09 09:21 AM
Response to Original message
31. I like turtles
:hi:
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cherokeeprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-20-09 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
33. Now, how much will be spent for "turtle training"?
Does anyone here think that the turtles will just take it upon themselves to use these tunnels?

I wanna be a turtle trainer.
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shadowknows69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-20-09 12:35 PM
Response to Original message
34. I what respect Charlie?
Ok, I don't know what a turtle culvert is.
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sixstrings75 Donating Member (173 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-20-09 01:54 PM
Response to Original message
35. Check this out. As I said in previous post, Long Point, ON, Can.

Long Point needed to do something about all the turtle casualties.

Here's a fetching read on a turtle culvert. Looks like a good idea to me. A lot of people around here are balking at the cost though. Curmudgeons.

http://longpointcauseway.com/download/LPCIP%20brochure....

Thanks
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LeftyMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-20-09 01:56 PM
Response to Original message
36. Davis has a frog tunnel, if that's what you're thinking of.
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chaska Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-20-09 02:02 PM
Response to Original message
37. I wish we were so noble, but it's really just about keeping the roadways safer...
and free of some rather large turtles, alligators, snakes, etc. People would be all over the road trying to miss these "obstacles".
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