Monorail system that uses the same technology as Segways could be our nation's solution to transit.

[originalpckelly]

The gyro monorail, gyroscopic monorail, gyro-stabilized monorail, or gyrocar all denote a single track land vehicle, road or rail, which uses the gyroscopic action of a spinning wheel, which is forced to precess, to overcome the inherent inverted pendulum instability of balancing on top of a single rail.

The monorail is associated with the names Louis Brennan, August Scherl and Piotr Schilovski, who each built full scale working prototypes during the early part of the Twentieth Century. An improved version was developed by Ernest F. Swinney, Harry Ferreira and Louis E. Swinney in the USA in 1962. This system is called the Gyro-Dynamics monorail.

Although technically sound, the gyro monorail has never developed beyond the prototype stage.

Schilovski, in the introduction to his book <1>, rather scathingly attributes this failure to widespread ignorance within the engineering profession, and vested interest of the railway community. Whilst these may have been, and probably still remain, minor contributing factors, the only nations with the technology to develop the monorail at the time already had perfectly satisfactory conventional railway networks, which were not due for replacement.

However, at present, when that same legacy infrastructure imposes severe limitations on modern train performance, the case for the monorail as a means of exploiting existing routes, rather than building a complete new network, to accommodate the next generation of high speed train, does not appear quite so weak.

Unlike more obvious means of maintaining balance, such as lateral shifting of the centre of gravity, or the use of reaction wheels, the gyroscopic balancing system is statically stable, so that the control system serves only to impart dynamic stability. The active part of the balancing system is therefore more accurately described as a roll damper.

More:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gyro_Monorail


I've have an idea, why not take the curbs found in most modern cities and place a smaller version of the same type of gyro monorail?

Imagine how easy it would be to install this system: just jackhammer the curb, dig with an edger like tool, then insert a long and deep rail where the cement curb was.

In areas with access to light rail, you could install standard gage wheels on the thing that would be retracted during normal operation.

In many locations, the city government actually owns the curbs, so there would be no need to pay for land.

The only limit the feasibility would be street lamps and traffic light poles, as well as the workings of the right-of-way at intersections.

Now obviously, there would have to be some safety features, such as emergency tires or something if it were to tip, and the cars would have to be far narrower than the what appears in the original old photo.

[givemebackmycountry]

1. If BUSH rode it would he fall off of this too?

Just asking...

[originalpckelly]

2. No, he'd choke on the soft pretzels served on the inaugural ride.

[johnaries]

3. Either one works for me! nt

[originalpckelly]

4. You know they ought to create a runner-up Darwin award...

for people who almost die doing the dumbest things imaginable.

He'd have one a number of those during the past six years, and more recently, when he almost blew himself up with the hydrogen/electric vehicle from Ford.

[volstork]

5. ...or we could just

tie him to the track like in the old silent movies

[Tyo]

6. Our country doesn't give a shit about applied innovation

Seems to me that for the most part we kind of stopped bothering around 1985. Every new idea is rejected as impractical or too expensive until the Japanese or the Koreans bring it to market and then we half-heartedly try to catch up. Not only that but, good healthcare, reliable public transport, along paid leave to take care of kids, is all too Utopian for us, although other countries manage it along with paid education from K through University. Nah, we can't do that. We don't believe in Socialism here. Life in the NeoCon paradise.

[DRoseDARs]

7. Not sure if your use of the word "curb" has a different regional definition, but where I live...

...the "curb" is the edge where street meets sidewalk. Cars usually park along the curb where parking lots/structures aren't available and I don't know too many people who'd like the idea of a light rail train passing mere inches from either pedestrians or parked cars.

Anyway, I don't see how this would be any better than having a regular axle-based rail system. The cars are the same size so you'd still need the same amount of space/right-of-way, plus there's less technology involved in making an axle-based train move vs having a gyro-based stand upright. The concept is interesting and is worth exploring for high-speed rails, but it seems more of an oddity than a feasible light rail answer to transit problems. That's just my take on it.

[originalpckelly]

10. Yes, I've thought of that. I'm thinking of an avenue type system...

where there is no parking because it interrupts the flow of traffic.

However, we could still use it on streets where there is parking/pedestrian traffic, in fact it was designed for the pedestrian's life. Here are the ideas/descriptions of the solutions to these problems.

1.In areas where there is parking there would be white lined marking the end of the street and the right-of-way. In special circumstances, the ability of the train to lean will come in handy, :P though it may make some passengers a little sick.

2. Traffic isn't going to be disrupted during construction

3. The gyro system is extremely simple literally 100 year old technology that is no longer patented

4. The vehicles I envision would be especially narrow, only two passengers wide, but the entire train would be able to carry at least 16 passengers in a two car configuration. This may sound like a small number comparatively, but the vehicles would run more frequently. The entire system would be battery powered, using a system that would swap batteries at certain stops to allow them to charge.

5. The sidewalk problem can be solved a number of ways, both by creating a small grass/flower bed buffer zone or by putting up some type of decorative rod iron, or by building a low height partition wall.

[originalpckelly]

15. Oh, and I forgot, it needs to have a "bumper" nose on it...

basically something that would bump someone out of the way, while being soft enough to not be painful.

[Cobalt-60]

8. It works, but I don't think most would ride it.

I like a traditional monorail, like the 1964 Worlds Fair model.
Run the lines along the interstate system medians.

[tomreedtoon]

9. Or how about Disney monorails?

Those work remarkably well, given that they have to run almost continually. They use a U-shaped tire that holds the engine and the cars on the concrete rail. Elevated, true, but not a big problem. And THAT is proven technology in use right now.

[originalpckelly]

12. The problem with the Disney/other concrete monorails...

is that they use tires. Tires wear faster than a steel wheel. They also wrap completely around the track, and they are far slower than traditional rail.

[Cobalt-60]

18. how about maglev suspension?

That would spare us some rubber.

[originalpckelly]

19. Yes, but the problem with that type of monorail is the inability to "switch"

and maglevs cost a ton of money to build.

[DRoseDARs]

21. Well, they are more expensive than traditional rails, but they most certainly CAN switch tracks.

I don't know about Japan's program, but Germany's Transrapid International hasn't had any trouble making their trains switch tracks. It's a little different: A section of the guideway moves as a total unit instead of a pair of rails, but it's quick and has similar types of safety measures to ensure trains don't cross in the middle of a transition.

[IChing]

11. Interesting technology thanks

Most people forget that the City of Los Angeles had
an extensive light rail system up till WWII.
The problem is not the technology we are lacking,

it is the political and economic will
we have to use the applications of technology
for all of humanity vs the greedy.

Buckminster Fuller, Telsa, Einstein and other
visionaries have given us plenty of chapters
for parts of the operation manual for Spaceship Earth.


We are not going to be able to operate our Spaceship Earth
successfully nor for much longer
unless we see it as a whole spaceship
and our fate as common.
It has to be everybody or nobody.

R. Buckminster Fuller



Great nations are simply the operating fronts
of behind-the-scenes, vastly ambitious individuals
who had become so effectively powerful because of
their ability to remain invisible while
operating behind the national scenery.

R. Buckminster Fuller

[originalpckelly]

13. Who knows, it can't be that expensive to build a sort of test vehicle for the sucker.

It'd be fun to ride it. I think people would probably come to ride it just for the tourist appeal.

[originalpckelly]

14. Here are more pictures of this monorail on a website about it:

http://www.dself.dsl.pipex.com/MUSEUM/LOCOLOCO/brennan/brennan.htm

[gravity]

16. What's wrong with two rails?

[originalpckelly]

20. 1. To introduce a light rail system, one must tear up roads...

and install the rail systems.

2. Those systems use a large part of the road, and must have "right-of-way" to get any speed. However, by taking up road, they actually slow the flow of people.

The idea with this is to steal some space that is tradition reserved for only parking and pedestrian traffic, and put in a system that moves a lot of people pretty quickly.

The whole system would be one of the simplest easiest rail installations in America.

[muriel_volestrangler]

25. No, I still don't get why one rail is better than two for your purposes

What's the difference between your system, and putting a normal two-track system in the same place? In both cases, you are narrowing the sidewalk, and taking the same road space that cars etc. now use (the standard gauge of 4 foot 8 is not wide - any system with 2 adults sitting side by side has to be that wide). You would lay one metal track instead of 2, so there's a small financial saving there, but against that you are using more complicated technology in the carriages.

The only advantage that the Wikipedia page talks about that seems relevant is for high speed trains, where the banking allows a much tighter turning radius - a problem now solved using carriages that tilt above the level axles - see eg the 'Pendolino' trains, which are used on older track with tighter bends, to get modern speeds. But in cities, that's not a concern.

[Ganja Ninja]

44. I don't see any advantage to one rail over two unless ...

you're looking at a small elevated system for a airport or an inner city.

[IDemo]

17. Cool idea, but not the same as a Segway

Segways don't contain a flywheel/gyro as described in the link. They rely on MEMS gyros instead (micro electro-mechanical systems), more like a tuning fork on a chip. When the 'tuning fork' is deflected, it changes the capacitance in an electrical circuit. The Segway's control circuitry measures the state of the gyro's (several of them) hundreds of times per second, compares that to the rider input (steering or leaning) and adjusts the wheel positions to maintain balance, accelerate, or decelerate, kind of like balancing a broomstick on your hand.

[originalpckelly]

22. I'm just talking about the whole idea of gyro-stabilization.

Not a specific method. In this case the force of the gyros is what keep the vehicle up, in the case of the Segway it's more complicated, and it actually sounds somewhat reminiscent of the human ear.

[jollyreaper2112]

23. nah

Looks cool but it has one major drawback: eats up room on the ground. I like this idea a whole lot more:



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skytran

The idea is that you get the convenience of point to point transport like a car with the scaled efficiencies of mass transit. The pylons for the trackways only eat up as much groundspace as a telephone pole so you can run them over any sort of property with minimal impact. The cars are electrically driven so there's nothing but wind noise. The track costs are so low that you can lay down a grid over an area with the goal of origin and destination being no further than a 5 minute brisk walk from a given terminal. The final key that makes it all work is that the cars are routed by a central computer so you get the efficiency and precision that you just can't imagine from manually operated systems.

The problem with conventional light rail is that it costs millions per mile, even worse than highways, and you need extremely high population densities to make it efficient. I live in South Florida and we have a crappy light rail called Tri-Rail. It only runs north/south and does nothing for people who might live 20 miles inland from the rail line. To make a commute, you're looking at driving to the station, taking the train, and then needing some other transport to get from the train to your destination. Silly. Places like DC and Boston are different critters, much higher population densities which make the subways doable. Of course, you still have the silliness of needing to speed up and then stop at every station. With a Skytran system, you only stop when you reach your destination. The computer handles rail switching and spacing to keep your cars apart.

The final coolness factor of Skytran is that it's practical. It's not intended to supplant regular transport but offer an alternative. If you need to get a delivery from the store, it'll come to you in a big box truck on the regular road. But if you need to commute to work, you would take one of these instead of the family car. That frees up the roads for people who have to be on them. Also, because the Skytran can go pretty much anywhere, it's something that could be built in existing cities, it doesn't require massive teardowns and Big Dig-style insanity to put in place.

If Bush would throw $500 billion at this like he did at the war, I might almost forgive him.

[originalpckelly]

24. True, but I'd argue a very innocuous change in something totally uncared for...

is probably the best way to go. For the system you mentioned and light rail, one has obstruct the view of mother nature to get it to work. This just goes along the curb.

[Occulus]

26. Look at that photo twice.

Note the lack of a single automobile. Then, note the plethora of pedestrians.

That system may not be appropriate for spaces between cities, but I would definitely prefer it to a bus or a cab.

[jollyreaper2112]

27. there's a car in the picture

These things would travel 150mph between cities. It would most certainly be doable. You would have the same personal space as in a comfortable auto.

What I really like about the system concept is that it takes human error out of the equation, or at least greatly minimizes it. You could be drunk as a skunk in one of these things and not kill anyone. Even better, if you puke in the thing they'll know who to charge for the clean-up. This will reduce the potential for vandalism, unlike traditional forms of public transit.

[jollyreaper2112]

31. these things would rock for stadiums

Notice how the loading line is a separate track from the main transit line. You know what this means? The end of parking lots. Because this is a computer-routed system, spare cars can be added to the system from utility hangers quickly. Say you have a sporting event, 60k people converging on a stadium. As cars drop their passengers they are whisked back into the system. Since there are more cars in the area than required by passengers, the excess cars either move to areas of greater demand or park themselves in utility hangers. Now the brilliant part is this: when the event is scheduled to let out, additional cars are routed to the stadium in advance and are lined up in loading queues. You can have dozens of loading points around the stadium and design them for whatever number of idle cars the planners deem necessary. You could have 10 per station, you could have 100. New cars are whizzing in as the freshly loaded cars whiz off. And because it's all computer-routed, you don't have the kinds of traffic jams stadiums usually generate.



For disabled passengers or those with a load, lift platforms can be installed at the station. Note how all of the stuff related to a station consists of accessories bolted onto standard plyons. Neat!





Now the complaint some people might make is "boohoo, these are two-seaters. I've got a pile of friends with me." So take separate cars. The system is designed to have communications built into the cars and everything is connected via a wired network built into the track so you can chat with the other cars in your group no problem. You can also join those cars together as an official convoy so the "lead" car will direct where everyone goes.

The full pitch is here.

http://www.skytran.net/01QuickTour/qt001.htm

[jollyreaper2112]

28. this curb thing you keep saying

The monorail car will certainly hang over the curb to the left and right. It will obstruct traffic on the left and whack pedestrians on the right.

The skytran system, on the other hand, would be quite invisible against the urban landscape. The other nice thing is that you can run a skytran line right over ecologically sensitive lands and there would be virtually zero impact. Animals can cross beneath the line, no problem. There's no emissions from the cars themselves so no pollution along the route. Since the line runs on electricity, you can power it with the greenest energy you can find. Even a coal plant is preferable to 10,000 cars burning gas. Also, since the windows don't open, you won't have litter along the transit line.

[ContraBass Black]

33. Constructing it would still be disruptive to sensitive lands.

Something has to hold up the rail.

[jollyreaper2112]

41. Maybe, maybe not

If they built the thing on the ground then yeah, you'd have a road essentially going right through where this thing is passing. And if you were to preserve access for maintenance, it would be like the clearcuts for high-tension powerlines. But what if you made the whole thing self-deploying instead? You run a big, articulated tracklayer hanging from the same rails. It can "spray" down the pilars and rails.

Think that's crazy? Look at the house printer.

http://www.technovelgy.com/ct/Science-Fiction-News.asp?NewsNum=57

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/robots/contour-crafting-one-day-house-printer-our-only-hope-235586.php

So all you'd need is an extrusion arm that can lay the track and the rest of the mechanics to support the whole deal would be in cars strung along behind on the rest of the freshy-built track.

[originalpckelly]

38. Here is the difference:

That takes up almost an entire lane of traffic. It's not better than a bus, other than aesthetics and the fact that uptight people will ride them because they don't have a dirty polluting image like buses.

Cut the train in half.

You have this idea.

This is the inside of a Denver TheRide light rail train.



Remove the isle, and remove the seats on the right hand side.

The space that would be taken in the street by the train, and the space on the side walk each is somewhere between 1.5 ft to 2 ft. That's not an entire lane of traffic like a traditional light rail.

But most importantly, the rail is simple to install and the installation will not disrupt the flow of traffic, except when there should need to be an intersection with a street, and when that happens it could probably be installed in the middle of the night.

Each of the seating areas on board would seat four people comfortably. There would also be ample room for overhead storage. For riders who require wheelchair accessibility, there would be a compartment at the front open to the drivers cab, to facilitate the driver with any assistance a rider may need. In all other compartments there would be low floors to assist anyone with a walker, and since the vehicle opens directly on to the sidewalk, this would reduce the time needed to assist any riders, which for a bus is a long time because lifts have to be used in high floor buses and the floor has to drop down in a low floor bus. It slows traffic and annoys drivers, while also delaying the bus route.

This way it's faster, which helps everyone.

[muriel_volestrangler]

45. Yes, it would take up a whole lane

You can't have it overhanging the sidewalk. That's where slow, unprotected pedestrians stand and walk. (a) They probably need the room they have now; (b) you can't take 2 foot of their space, and put a hard object moving at speed (25 mph?) in it, without a very obvious dividing line - either a fence, or (ta-da!) a kerb. So you'd have to install something else along the whole length anyway.

Your seat needs to be wide enough to seat 2 people. That would save at most 18 inches off the width of a car (which actually puts you in the realms of the standard rail gauge of 4' 8.5"). Given that you need a bit of safety room between the vulnerable pedestrians and the carriages, you're back to the width that a parked car takes up (which has the advantage of moving so slowly that you don't need room between it and pedestrians).

So what you'd have to do is just take up the whole space that cars now park in. And there's enough room in that for a double track. I also don't see why getting on to your monorail is any easier than getting on to a bus or light rail system.

[cgrindley]

29. The segway is so retarded I'd rather walk

Nothing looks more stupid than someone riding a segway.

[jollyreaper2112]

32. oh yeah?

How about BUSH riding a Segway?

[cgrindley]

35. Wow...

I never get tired of that one.

[JVS]

30. Monorail Monorail Monorail Monorail Monorail Monorail Monorail Monorail

[jollyreaper2112]

34. badgers badgers badgers badgers

badgers badgers badgers badgers badgers badgers badgers badgers badgers badgers badgers badgers

SNAKE! SNAKE!

[JVS]

37. I'm sick of these motherfucking snakes on my motherfucking monorail

[leeroysphitz]

40. Monorail!

Edited to add: "I call the big one Bitey."

[jollyreaper2112]

42. damn the simpsons

They've made it impossible to discuss monorail without snickers. Why couldn't they have picked something evil like microsoft instead?

[JVS]

43. The fact that the episode was anti-monorail led George Takei to refuse..

being the guest star. The show had to settle for Nimoy instead :D

[jollyreaper2112]

46. go takai!

Though to be funny, he should agree to do an episode where he starts his own online hotel and travel service and fights Shatner and Nimoy to the death in a slave pit.

[gravity]

36. The Simpsons already did it

http://youtube.com/watch?v=AportXHv7jg

[BeFree]

39. Curbs, hell!

Run that rail(s) right down the roads. With $10 a gallon gas those roads will be mostly empty.

I can imagine myself sitting down on my segway-type individual transporter as the computer controlled guidance system keeps my unit from entangling with others.

The solar powered unit moving me from point A to point B, while I read DU on my way to work, or wherever. When the rail runs out, I'd have to sit up and take notice, but still, I'm not having to WALK. And I am still free to go just about anywhere.

It is one way to keep the American dream alive. Can we do it?