Question: how many people who think the economy is being handled "brilliantly" are unemployed?

[Political Heretic]

How many here who think that are:

-unemployed and
- have been unemployed for 90 days or longer and
- when previously employed made 20,000 or less in their last year of full employment?

I get the feeling that DU represents privileged middle class and upper middle class white people as its predominant demographic.

[pleideschick]

1. I saw a poll on here some time ago asking what DU's income levels were

and it was unbelievable how many were in the upper categories. Same with education levels, not surprisingly.

[Political Heretic]

2. You almost don't need a poll to realize this - it drips off so many posts made here

[madrchsod]

3. i retired at 62 because i`ll never find a full time job....

there`s 0 part time jobs-even walmart is`t hiring,i`m drawing 100 dollars in unemployment. there`s over 6000 unemployed in my part of northern illinois.my daughter has a job and so does my wife.
although we are not doing bad the prospect of any future economic gains are 0.

is the economy being handle "brilliantly"? hell no. there has`t been any structural change in the old system that caused this deep recession. i know the 250 plus that will lose their jobs where i live certainly will disagree that nothing is
"brillant" in their lives.

[dmallind]

4. Rather strange definition

Median personal income for men is about $47K and women $35K for those working full time. Counting any work still leaves you with about 1/3 who make less than $20K annually. So why shouldn't a majority exceed this level here on DU, which requires the ability to access and use computers - a trait that is more than likely much more prevalent among the better off?

I fit into the first two criteria you have, but not the last, just like most people - hardly an indication of "privilege" unless you think 2/3 of all the people in the country are privileged.

Then again I think my rating of the economic management would be "pretty reasonable given the godawful mess inherited, but not stellar" so maybe I'm not the target of your angst.

[Political Heretic]

8. I do think 2/3 of all people in the country are privileged.

Given the number of white, upper middle class Americans we have.

I don't believe I said that a majority at DU "shouldn't" exceed some level. But it does impact how issues get discussed and what positions are taken.

I believe that white, upper middle class americans are, by and large, grossly out of touch with the needs and conditions of working class and lower middle class Americans. And while my 20k number was somewhat artificial, I believe that you have about 50% of the country that falls into the lower middle class/working class category - more than that depending on how you define the cutoff points. That group of people, that community and the needs of working Americans are the interests that I care about, and I don't feel they are well represented in Washington, nor in social communities such as this one that tends to skew toward privilege and material abundance.

[dmallind]

14. That's a bit of a weird definition of privilege

But hey if you want to call it that then go nuts I guess. But you are making some assumptions that are not necessarily true. One is that "privileged" 20K+ makers on the whole do not share the opinions of the less privileged, and another is that the less privileged are self-serving (or the privileged for that matter - on the national stage Roosevelt probably helped the poor more than anyone, and the reason "limousine liberals" is a cliché is not because they were made up out of the whole cloth). Any number of studies have demonstrated that neither is axiomatic. Complaints about tax increases on the rich come far more from the poor than those with increased taxes. Social conservatism is inversely correlated with income.

[Political Heretic]

15. Not for a social worker it isn't.

:shrug:

[ipaint]

16. Actually the poor are the most generous.

The generosity of poor people isn't so much rare as rarely noticed, however. In fact, America's poor donate more, in percentage terms, than higher-income groups do, surveys of charitable giving show. What's more, their generosity declines less in hard times than the generosity of richer givers does.

"The lowest-income fifth (of the population) always give at more than their capacity," said Virginia Hodgkinson, former vice president for research at Independent Sector, a Washington-based association of major nonprofit agencies. "The next two-fifths give at capacity, and those above that are capable of giving two or three times more than they give."

Indeed, the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics' latest survey of consumer expenditure found that the poorest fifth of America's households contributed an average of 4.3 percent of their incomes to charitable organizations in 2007. The richest fifth gave at less than half that rate, 2.1 percent.

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/226/story/68456.html

One president decades ago changed things. It's been chipped away and destroyed ever since. The only way to increase the wealth at the top is to steal it from the bottom.

If you want to claim the poor as being the prime supporters of their own oppression your pretty much the definition of a limousine liberal. All talk but no real empathy.

[spooky3]

26. I believe those numbers include tithes etc. to one's own church.

I think those should be separated from other contributions.

[Hannah Bell]

20. "social conservatism" is only negatively correlated in the god, guns & gays arenas.

but in the economics area, wealth = conservatism.

[JVS]

24. Your numbers are off by a large amount

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_income_in_the_United_States

Median Personal income for men is $38K
for women it's $26.5K

[Political Heretic]

37. That poster is confusing median individual with median family.

That's what happened. Common mistake.

[JVS]

41. I think it's so common a mistake that a lot of people end up vastly overwhelming the wealth of...

a typical American. There seems to be this idea that The typical citizen is pulling $50K each year, while the truth is that a $25K is much more likely.

[Red Shift]

27. dmallind

do you think that your insights and views on "privilege" will be the same if you remain unemployed for another year? As someone in that situation myself, I don't think so.

Do you think it is something to brag about that the better off are more likely to access and use computers? I only ask because from the context it appears that your sympathies lay with the, as you term them, "better off" but it does not appear that you are currently among them

[Political Heretic]

5. Anyone else?

[damntexdem]

6. How many people think that the economy is being handled brilliantly?

How many people think that there IS a way to handle this economy brilliantly?

[Political Heretic]

10. I do.

What needs to be done isn't super complicated - rather its that institutional and political forces are dead set against allowing it to happen, and will fight to the death to make sure it never does.

[high density]

7. The job market has sucked for a decade

I have been all three of those, and that was while the economy was supposedly roaring during the mortgage bubble. I do think too much of the senate is hoping that Obama will fail on the economy.

[Political Heretic]

13. Agreed.

[JVS]

23. That's what slays me. Corporofascist apologists are all "well now it's time to pay the piper for...

the good times" Good times? Jeebus Crisp! This isn't an issue of good times and bad times, it's a matter of shitty times vs. not being able to make it. If this is what our system has to offer, fuck it.

[Deja Q]

31. How so? And since they believe in trickle-down economics, therefore they also must believe

responsibility comes from the top-down too. Right?

/rhetorical

[Deja Q]

29. Democrats, Repubs, or both?

[ipaint]

9. Great question

Yesterday I read a thread on what people where doing to cut back during this downturn and felt like I must be living on another planet. Half the stuff I never was able to afford to begin with and the other half I gave up two years ago when this recession hit my husband and I simutaneously (carpenter and visual artist). We are still down for the count after two years living in a pop up tent chasing construction jobs and now a bit better off in a small 325 sq ft studio apt. Thank goodness for my husband's unemployment or we would be on the streets living in our truck.
To top it all off we are older, 52 and 56, and jobs are non existent.

The thought that folks in our government who live in the lap of luxury, totally insulated, are now deciding whether I will ever see a doctor again is not very encouraging. I am under no illusion any of them will give it a second thought when folks unemployment and extended benefits run out. If they where the first wave of folks facing that prospect this month would be getting relief today.

There are answers to these problems but it would mean the needs of actual human beings would have to be put before corporate profits. I don't see that happening in whatever is left of my lifetime. And yes the handling of the economy and this crisis sucks. It has for my entire adult life.

[Fire1]

34. I'm an educator and salaries in this field are contingent

primarily on two things. One, location by state. Two, qualifications and credentials. The field of education USED to be insulated but no longer. Overall, our salaries have NEVER been comparable to the cost of living in ANY state and I'm hoping that will change with the passing of EFCA.

I cannot imagine what is going to happen when so many thousands of people continue to be unemployed and homeless! Surely, this administration recognizes the consequences of such a reality.

[ipaint]

11. Also your current rating of

<0 says it all doesn't it?


I edited my post because it was cut off.

[Political Heretic]

12. Yeah - that's no surprise though.

:)

[Echo In Light]

17. Bingo! and yes, by and large the OP is correct in which class primarily uses DU

Chomsky helped explain this back in the 70s/80s: in order for the two (one) party system to work, the educated/professional classes need be indoctrinated into supporting either side of the equation despite unpleasant facts that reveal little substantive difference between them. That's what the process of indoctrination is precisely about: ensuring that those stark similarities go virtually ignored, and that objective, institutional analysis is relegated as "conspiracy theory."

[leftstreet]

18. Most DUers are working class, but many spout upper class bullshit

But that's not unique to DU

[LooseWilly]

19. I certainly wouldn't call the handling of the economy "brilliant"...

And I'm unemployed. Really unemployed, no benefits, no insurance, nothing that I didn't sock away while I was "gainfully employed" and living in a cheap room in the ghetto to save money. I've been unemployed for a lot longer than 90 days... and as an independent contractor there is no "full employment"... there is only boom or bust... mostly bust lately.

On the other hand, I have a college education and I can understand that the handling of the economy is being prioritized in a manner to help out the "average American", meaning the wage slaves who are in hock up to their collective asses trying to "buy into" the "middle class". The same semi-existent demographic that politicians always pander to. As a result the economy is being "hot boxed" by printing a lot of new money and spending to run up National Debt, so as to bring inflationary pressures to bear in order to push back on the deflationary pressures inherent in a weak economy in which spending and hiring/employment are all on the decline.

While that's all nice for all the desperate Citizens who have jobs that they used to over-leverage themselves with debt (just like Wall Street did)... the choice of this fiscal policy essentially fucks over those of us who, despite working shitty jobs while working on the side as artists... who socked away money from our shitty jobs to live on when the shitty jobs just became too shitty... because now the money we've socked away is going to soon be worth fuck-all, as we go on an inflationary roller coaster ride... and now even the shitty jobs are gone... and the worst part is that, if the Government weren't so goddamned busy looking out for the "respectable Citizen" demographic, people who zagged when economic sages suggested we ought to have zigged... we'd be doing pretty damned well now.

Needless to say, for some of us the Administration's work on the economy is irrelevant... Unless one is part of that always pandered to portion of the "middle class", which is generally families earning considerably more than that $20K figure, the Administration flat out ain't gonna do shit for one.

I try to console myself by reminding myself that I'm used to doing without, but the "poor" Middle Class?... they wouldn't know what to do with themselves if they actually had to do without. (the horror...)

[Political Heretic]

21. Morning!

[JVS]

22. I don't think the handling has been brilliant.

I gave you a rec

[galileoreloaded]

25. Don't forget age. Most here it seems are 45-65, the single largest group with the largest net worth,

nationally.

[intheflow]

28. I would guess that demographic is pretty right on.

There's still much to be said for the digital divide.

That being said... being white and mid-to-upper class is no guarantee against unemployment any more.

[Hydra]

30. I make 20k on a good year

And this year, I've spent half of it out of work. I don't think there's anything "brilliant" about giving handouts to the people that robbed us and assuring them that they will be able to again in the future.

I agree with you though- most of the sensible(and fact based) discussions I've had with people on DU about economics were with people who the system is screwing: The homeless, the jobless, the people who can't afford to eat regularly. The people who were doing well during these bubbles scream when it's taken from them...hell, this is "normal" life for me.

[ShamelessHussy]

32. After all my years of visiting the site I'm convinced it is a vast majority of Privledged White Boyz

Though i could be wrong, it's just the impression that I get :shrug:

[Political Heretic]

38. Are you frankly admitting you are a sock puppet?

"All your years" on DU ... joined yesterday?

Hey who knows, I've changed accounts over the last 8 years so... :shrug:

Plenty of legit reasons to do so I guess.

[JHB]

33. How many on DU think it is being handled "brilliantly"?

I evidently missed the post that this one is based on.

[bvar22]

35. he popularity of the new "unrecommend" button,

and the threads targeted by this group tend to support your observation:

"I get the feeling that DU represents privileged middle class and upper middle class white people as its predominant demographic."

This group doesn't want anybody rocking their boat or pointing out inconvenient truths.

[mike3121]

36. Good Question

We are all, for the most part, liberals here. The Democratic playbook and strategy is to totally destroy the Repub thugs for once and for all. Once that's achieved Democratic party control could last for 25 plus years, hell Obama could stay for a 12 to 16 year term. Sadly part of achieving Democratic political dominance is to create an economic crisis so that the people will accept the new radical programs coming down the pike. Warmed over socialism will never achieve anything!

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

39. The economy is "handling" the politicians and economic wizards.

Who are unable to do a goddam thing about it except waste money and assure us that there'll be pie in the sky....someday...maybe...with a whole big bag of "ifs" attached. All of them unreal.

[blindpig]

40. Hate I didn't see this yesterday

Spot on, PH.

Is too obvious, and all that it leads to.

[madmom]

42. My SO and I are retired, I could work if I could find a job where I didn't have to use

my right arm for "heavy" work. We pull in about $36,000 a year, which would be great for us, but, we also help out my son who is married with 3 children, laid off since Dec. and daughter who is still in college. So that being said I would conclude we are not by any means privileged.

[WI_DEM]

43. Well I'm probably lower middle class but I think it's going to take a lot of time to get us out

of the mess Bush presented Obama. Are all his economic plans brilliant? No. But it's way too early to say if they are failures too.

[noamnety]

44. Agree with premise, though I'd wordsmith it some.

There are people who think we should have seen improvement by now if the stimulus plan were working. And there are others who think it will take a few years to work.

and then there is a subset of that last group that sees that last statement as cause for sarcastic mockery of anyone who isn't happy with the existence and/or speed of the recovery. Based on their emotional reaction and tone, those are folks who I suspect are living quite comfortably, not people on the verge of foreclosure, or people dealing with a medical crisis that they can't afford. When I see people expressing mockery at folks concerned about the economy today, right now, I assume they are people who can afford to treat this like a political game that they are observing from the sidelines.