Bernie Madoff "betrayed their trust"...

[JohnnyRingo]

He promised an increase in wealth beyond imagination.
He said they couldn't find a better investment on the planet.
They trusted him to augment their wealth to riches and their fortunes into estates ...and he let them down.

I can sympathize however, I once sent $2,000usd to Nigeria because at my age, I thought I paid my dues and deserved that Scottish inheritance.
I wired the money via Western Union and awaited the rewards that in the end should accompany one as hard working as myself.

I know the lesson learned is not to rip off rich people, but I still hope they find Lord Smethly-Whitston of Lagos Nigeria.

[billyoc]

1. Every one of his so-called "victims" should be investigated and prosecuted.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

2. On what possible grounds? n/t

[billyoc]

4. Fraud.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

5. What fraud?

Since when do we prosecute the victims of con artists?

[billyoc]

6. These "victims" conspired to defraud their smaller investors and even chartitable contributors.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

8. What about the people who invested directly with Madoff?

Do we send them to jail too?

[billyoc]

9. That would depend on the result of the investigations.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

14. Well, I wish you luck with that. n/t

[LeftishBrit]

11. Like people who depended on a charity and may now lose what they had?

Or people who will lose their jobs at universities and other institutions? Or poor students who may lose the scholarships on which they depend?

Or all the elderly people who lost their life savings???

Maybe some of the direct investors or their advisors were unwise in their investment choices. But since when was falling victim to a con-man a crime?

[billyoc]

13. It's a crime when you conspire to rob your charitable contributors.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

15. Since it involves rich and possibly Jewish people in New York City. n/t

[Hannah Bell]

18. interesting you would say that.

[anonymous171]

20. So? nt

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

3. No he didn't.

He promised an increase in wealth beyond imagination.

You're completely misreading what he did. The unique thing about Madoff is that he didn't promise that. Rather than targeting get-rick-quick folks, he targeted relatively conservative institutional investors like university endowment administrators, who are not exactly known for being risk-friendly. What Madoff promised was consistent, safe returns. Rather than promising to increase your wealth "beyond imagination," he promised to increase it at a modest, regular rate. The horrific thing about all of this is that he did this to people who were, in many cases, his friends who trusted him. And he has caused untold damage to educational institutions and non-profits (again, not exactly high-risk investors) as a result.

[Hannah Bell]

7. "he promised to increase it at a modest, regular rate" - go tell it to the marines.

http://www.dailyfinance.com/2009/05/19/did-madoffs-biggest-victims-get-950-percent-returns/

Did Madoff's biggest 'victims' get 950 percent returns?
Peter Cohan
May 19th 2009 at 10:00AM

Here's how the lawsuit suggests that Madoff's clients helped him with his scheme: The clients told Madoff how much of a return they wanted in a given year. Madoff would manufacture the fake account statements needed to generate those returns -- word of which would reach hundreds of other investors who would then clamor to give their money to Madoff, who in turn would forward that new money to his prized clients so they would, indeed, get those high returns.

How high? Well above the 10 percent to 12 percent annual returns that have previously been mentioned in coverage of the story. According to a lawsuit by Irving Picard, an attorney at Baker & Hostetler LLP who is trustee in the bankruptcy liquidation of Madoff's firm, several of Madoff's investors received returns in the range of 300 to 950 percent.



Billions Withdrawn Before Madoff Arrest

By DIANA B. HENRIQUES and ZACHERY KOUWE
Published: May 12, 2009

Both lawsuits were filed in Federal Bankruptcy Court in Manhattan. And both assert that the defendants, as professional investors, should have realized that their profits were too high and too consistent...to be legitimate.

In other accounts, backdated transactions generated billions of dollars of fictional year-end losses and one account grew by 30 percent in just two weeks in 2006...

...Harley International, which invested client money with Mr. Madoff since at least 1996, received “unrealistically high and consistent annual returns” of about 13.5 percent. That outpaced the swings in the stock index on which Mr. Madoff had apparently based his trading strategy....

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/13/business/13madoff.html



Mr. Madoff regularly delivered returns of 10 to 17 percent to investors, a very good year-in, year-out return but on the low end of the 10 to 100 percent a year typically dangled by promoters of Ponzi schemes.

But assets that can guarantee those returns year after year without risk simply do not exist.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/19/business/19ponzi.html

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

16. So a couple of his favored investors make out like bandits...

...and that implicates everybody. Nice shootin' Tex.

[Hannah Bell]

17. did you notice this bit?

"Mr. Madoff regularly delivered returns of 10 to 17 percent to investors, a very good year-in, year-out return...

But assets that can guarantee those returns year after year without risk simply do not exist."


he delivered those consistent returns for over 20 years.

not "modest".

you have no idea what bm promised his clients.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

21. Actually, I have an extremely good idea of what he promised his clients.

Unfortunately, it doesn't scan perfectly with the lunatic ravings of certain people on this message board who are totally uninformed about the subject and just like to bitch and rant, ignorantly, because it makes them feel good.

[Hannah Bell]

24. how's that? were you one of his clients? cause being one would be the only way to know for sure.

even then, you'd only know what *you* were told.

so until you show you're a client, i figure i can read the news reports as well as you.

they say consistent 10-17%. which isn't "modest".

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

25. No, I just happen to know people who worked with him and people who were his clients.

Unfortunately I am stuck with knowing and being related to people in the NYC financial world.

[Hannah Bell]

26. explains a lot.

[Liberal_in_LA]

10. Read the stories of Madoff's victims. So many cases of multiple generations of family going broke

http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/brokerage/2009-06-29-madoff-victims-grafic_N.htm

http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/brokerage/2009-06-29-madoff-victims-grafic_N.htm

[excess_3]

12. release date 6/29/2159 ?

does he get credit for time served?

[JohnnyRingo]

19. Now that's funny

"time served"
hahahhaha

[Cresent City Kid]

22. I won't condemn or sympathize with the victims without details

The ones on Charie Rose last night made me wonder. They sold property, and took out 2nd mortgages and dumped it all into investments with Madoff. This was to ensure their retirement, total: $3 million dollars. Me personally, I'd give my left nut to have $3 million to retire on without having it increased by investment. Even if you live retired for 20 years, that's $150,000 per year. Granted, they didn't have the $3 million all at once, but they had plenty to retire on. I guess people have different definitions of "enough".

[scarletwoman]

23. Capitalism: "Sometimes you eat the bar, sometimes the bar eats you." (nt)