Link?

[johnaries]

I have been on DU for a while, and I have heard some lamentations about "what happened to the *old* DU?".

One major difference I have noticed about DU now and DU in the "good ole days" is a simple question:

"Link?"

When someone made a statement here that they purported as fact, there was always a reply saying simply

"Link?"

In other words, put your money where your mouth is. If you are going to make a statement or accusation, you better be prepared to back it up. This was a great boon to me, because when I made an argument to someone else based on what I read on DU, I had an outside source to back it up provided by DU. Also, if I decided to argue against something posted here on DU I had better be sure that my argument was cogent and I had sources to back it up, otherwise *I* would be hit with the simple question

"Link?"

There was another excellent question I used to see here that I don't see much anymore -

"Did you read the link?"

I can appreciate that many of us come here to DU to "blow off steam". But one of the things I always appreciated about the "old DU" was that no matter how emotional the issue SOMEONE would always bring it home so that we could have a rational, honest discusion.

In addition, it always prepared me as I ventured forth from the halls of DU to my friends and co-workers armed with Truth and Facts to help convince them. Even though I knew that many of them would never examine that

"Link?"

I knew that I helped to push them a little farther down the road to accept the truth. One day, they will stop listening to propaganda and seek the truth for themselves.

I actually had a moment like that today! Unfortunately, it was not because of DU, but in spite of it.

[elocs]

1. Yes, there is no truth without a link and something never happened unless there is a YouTube video.

Would I need a link for a personal opinion? (I agree with your basic concept.)

[johnaries]

4. Not at all! But so many "personal opinions" are formed

with no basis in reality. Further, personal opinion cannot be debated. It is nothing more than "opinion".

The most valuable aspect of DU is as a debate forum.

There have been many hard discussions here lately that were entirely baseless. I am merely saying that if you are presenting a position it is helpful to back up your position with outside resources.

Why do you think that College papers require references? Same concept.

[Hutzpa]

25. meh!

we can go on all day with that line of argument, you could say the same thing
for the person writing the article of the link provided, it is mainly based on
personal opinion.

What should set a journalist apart is to be able to give their audience a moderate
or should I dare say fair and balanced views on every subject they discussed/
write.

Most journalist are influenced by friendship, donations, gitfs...etc which IMO can
cloud their judgment in producing fair and balanced argument.

Why do you think that College papers require references? Same concept.

I'm not sure whether that helps, what it does is to create a mediocre work, because you are
using a reference to (which is someone else's idea) write something that should be an original
idea.

Heres what I think...and I'm out of here, when you read different sources on one subject it helps
enhance your thinking which in turn gives you an idea in creating a masterpiece(work) which is
what should be required, but when you use a reference to write your work you have taken the
originality out....by the way, using solely based references could be classified as plagiarism,
you don't have to use the other writers words and phrases but using their idea can be considered plagiarism.

The problem nowadays is most writers use cynicism to get their point across and people have become
accustomed to that, whereas they cannot tell the difference between an original fair and balanced
writer from a cynical writer.



(This is my opinion only - No link is required)

[TexasObserver]

2. Sure thing.

http://www.google.com/

Unlike you, I find the "Link?" response disingenuous and completely lacking in utility. Either state your opinion or don't bother posting. It's a message board, not a court of law. We don't present evidence here. We present opinions, with "facts" being in the eye of the beholder.

[johnaries]

3. There is a difference between an informed opinion

and just talking out of your ass.

[TexasObserver]

5. That's what everyone says just before ...

... talking out their ass.

Do you need that google link again?

http://www.google.com/

[johnaries]

6. Excuse me. Why have you chosen to be hostile?

Is there some reason you would prefer that someone accepts your opinion without question?

I assure you I am very familiar with Google, and I pride myself on my Google skills.

But I still assert that just as every good research paper provides references, any argument presented here on DU carries more weight if it is backed up with resource material.

Do you have a problem with providing resources to back up your statements? I certainly don't, and I don't beleive anyone who wants the Truth to win out would, either. My assumption (based on recent historical events) is that the only peopl ewho would oppose this would be the ones who wish to obscure facts.

As I said, opinion is opinion and cannot be argued. It falls into the category of Dogma. You and I can yell at each other all day "You're wrong!" and it proves nothing.

I prefer a discussion backed up with not only reason but facts. If you choose to ignore the facts, then we have nothing to discuss.

[TexasObserver]

8. Everything you've posted in this thread is Opinion.

And that's a fact.

Get over yourself. You have a personal peeve, and it's not unusual. Link! Link! Link!

If I feel like supporting a point by offering a link, I'll do so. if I don't, I won't, and no amount of whining by those whose world collapses without a link will alter that.

This is a message board. It's for conversation. If you want to converse, do so. If you want to bleat LINK, expect that not everyone will care whether you like it or not.

[johnaries]

9. Excuse me? Can we say "circular logic"?

Is there some reason why you refuse to back up your statements?

Have I hit a nerve?

Do you choose to refuse to back up your statements with resources because there are none and you are just "talking out of your ass"?

Yes, I think you are just talking out of your ass and making up bullshit out of whole cloth because you don't have any facts on your side.

Care to prove me wrong?

Link?

[orleans]

15. what's with the pissing contest?

maybe you haven't been around long enuf to remember--but many times there would be the request for the "link?" when statements were presented as fact.

and btw--the general rule of thumb used to be that it was not up to the reader to go fucking around on google or anywhere else to see if your statements were a load of crap or not--it was up to the poster presenting their case as fact to back it up with some proof.

du is not fox.

[TexasObserver]

22. Link?

[orleans]

28. well, if i'm to take on your attitude then i guess i should just give

you a google link and tell you to go find it yourself.
www.google.com

[TexasObserver]

35. if you don't have any links to support your argument ...

[Warren Stupidity]

20. Well that is fine and all but if you make an assertion of fact

as part of the justification of your opinion then 'link?' is not disingenuous at all.

[TexasObserver]

23. got a link on that?

[MADem]

7. When I am expressing an opinion, I say "I think" or "I would imagine" or "I suppose."

I have to say that even after I've prefaced my remarks with those caveats, I have still, on the odd occasion, gotten the "LINK?" demand, usually in hostile fashion, from someone who disagrees with my opinion.

That's the flip side of your point, which is a valid one.

[johnaries]

10. Those are perfectly acceptable. There is plenty of room for interpretation.

An equally valid response is "no link, just personal opinion".

At that point we can argue the logic.

What bothers me is the large amount of misinformation that has been flying around recently that has limited valid discusion because the information itself is invalid.

If we are going to argue, can we at least decide what is true and what is false before we frame our arguements?

That is what the RW does. Distort the issue so that no real discussion can occur.

NOT that I am accusing anyone on this board of being a TROLL just because they like to obfuscate an issue! I would NEVER "call out" a fellow DU'er.

But if the goose-stepping boot fits......

[Hannah Bell]

18. "That is what the RW does. Distort the issue so no real discussion can occur." most definitely.

seems some like that kind of "debate".

myself, i think exchanges of fact-less "opinions" is pointless.

might as well talk about celebrities.

come to think of it, that's what we've been doing lately.

mj is a child molester!

is not!

wasn't it awful how he threw the baby over the rail!

yes, terrible!

[slay]

11. Link!

[johnaries]

30. Oh, a wise guy! Why I oughta.....

One of the things I love most about both "old" and "new" DU is the abundant sense of humor!
:hi:

[slay]

33. Heheheh

true dat - i should also add that i too prefer that people actually LINK to articles or other sources when citing info.. i just got so caught up in my cool Link pic that i forgot to say that.. heh.. :hi:

[Greyhound]

12. Having been here only a few years, perhaps I missed "The Golden Years",

but over the four years I have been here I have given up providing such evidence as it rarely read, most commonly ignored, and never understood.

DU has gone through the exact same evolution as every other surviving site on the web, it has gained some measure of notoriety and consequently been inundated by Average Americans.

That ubiquitous group of unthinking, unknowing, uneducated sheep and their unearned pride in all things Amurikan. The same people that cannot fathom the intricacies of a four-way stop sign, but are completely certain that capitalism is what God has decreed as the only path to righteousness and light. Where only those that live in the "Heartland" possess the simple wisdom to truly understand the inherent "rightness" of bigotry when tempered with "small town values".

You speak of truth as if it were something desirable, something that must be sought, discovered, and evaluated on it's merits in the light of known facts. You my friend, have obviously not been spending enough time watching "The Discovery Channel", for there you will learn "The Truth" between commercials that show the way to truly manageable hair and how to avoid "that less than fresh feeling".

Relax, sit back, and let "teh nawleje" flow over you with it's soft blue light, for that is the path to serenity.

[Hutzpa]

26. You!!!!

Could not have said it better........


Excellent...


:thumbsup:

[Greyhound]

37. Thank you very much.

Apparently the OP does not appreciate honesty in such large measure.

I must say, my time on DU has really got me rethinking the whole "If only someone would just be honest with them, they would understand what we do to them and how", thing.

[lapfog_1]

13. You want a "link"?

There you go...

Oh wait....

[Hannah Bell]

21. lol. mod squad rules!

[johnaries]

31. Thanks! Now how about a Julie....

:evilgrin:

[struggle4progress]

14. Thank you. Links make better threads

[orleans]

16. i've noticed there aren't nearly the requests for links that there used to be. n/t

[Nailzberg]

17. Do you have a link? Or are you making all this stuff up about "old DU"?

Being silly, of course. I remember and miss those days, as well.

[Festivito]

19. I don't notice too many posts without a link. Do you have a link?

Post links, ask for links, and check links. That will make the new DU better than the old DU.

[HamdenRice]

24. Bullshit! If you ask for links, then no one will be able to prove Obama is the same as Bush! No Fun!

Applying the standards of the "old" DU would completely destroy all the fun and games -- the posts that "prove" that Obama is a stooge, a whore, a corporate toady and "the same as Bush."

:sarcasm:

[dgibby]

27. I actually asked someone for a "link" during a face to face conservation.

She looked at me like I'd just stepped out of a UFO!:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[dave29]

29. I often come to DU in my search for the missing link

:hide:

[johnaries]

32. I've seen it! I forget who, but someone has it in their sig line.

A red X that's stolen by teh kitteh.

[dave29]

34. hehe

:)

[Roon]

36. When I am in my political chat room

I always..ALWAYS have a link backing up my posts. The conservatives know this and quit asking me "link"..they just start spinning without reading the link.