Obama sucks. The U.S. is an evil empire;

[cali]

the greatest scourge this world has ever known. Obama's economic policies are no different from Hitler's. There's been 0 change. The U.S. has no leadership role in the world and shouldn't. We're bullying poor misunderstood North Korea.

We're nothing but unmitigated evil- a fat bloated tick, sucking all that is good out of the world.

Does that about sum it up?






Note: I find the flip side of American exceptionalism as intellectually bereft as the rah rah side.

[Lex]

1. Best. Strawman. Evah.

nt

[cali]

6. not a strawman when you have ops here claiming that

the gov't saying there isn't enough money = nazi talk. not a strawman when you have people here outraged about U.S. policy re N. Korea. Not a strawman when you have people here claiming that Obama's policies are no different than bushcos.

There's a strong belief here in American exceptionalism.

[Lex]

14. If you claim those are not strawmen

then you believe those assertions to represent the truth of the matter?

Or do you in fact believe them to be strawmen arguments (over-exaggerated assertions/distortions that can be easily refuted)?

Just because they were stated here on DU doesn't mean they aren't strawmen arguments.

[Hugabear]

29. Oh give me a fucking break...

So what if some of us strongly disagree with a few of Obama's decisions?

You can say whatever you want, but we are STILL acting as the world's policeman, and there are quite a few of us who don't like that role.

[canetoad]

39. You forgot about Obama being

'An accessory to rape.'
Where are the angry citizens jamming the streets, baying for his removal? o i forgot. They are posting here.

[paulsby]

40. absolutely true

perfect example. when was the last thread where somebody made a FAVORABLE comparison of the US in regards to another country, (especially a european one, etc.).

iow, we have metric assloads of threads where WHATEVER the topic - food, government, any # of cultural aspects, etc. etc. it's perfectly ok to say country X is better or has better Y than the US.

how often do you see the contrary, where the US is favorably compared to another country? almost never.

i'll give some examples of where i think the US is vastly superior to many/other countries.

free speech: we have it. they don't. no "hate speech" laws here (except college campuses, but that's another issue), etc. a first amendment that protects the most controversial and egregious speech - holocaust denial, etc. that makes us EXCEPTIONAL, because we are the exception.

charity: US citizens give quite high levels of their disposable income to charity. i am NOT talking about govt. aid, etc. iow issues where no individual choice is involved. i am talking about individuals CHOOSING to donate money to churches, causes, etc. on their own volition.

entrepreneuraliasm. look at the items that are common in our daily life (and in other countries). amazing how often they come from the USA. You can be an "apple guy" or a "pc guy", but either one... american. it's amazing how many medical advances, inventions, etc. come from us. few countries offer more opportunity for a person with an idea to turn that idea into a business.

gun rights. this may rub people the wrong way, but we are one of the few countries that recognizes that the right to self defense, and the means to effectively defend oneself is a right that belongs to individual citizens.

various civil rights issues related to law enforcement. as a LEO, i have trained with officers from several european countries and canada. and i can tell you they are amazed at how restrained we (american LEO's) are in terms of our ability to search/seize and arrest. many countries don't have an exclusionary rule at all, or have much more limited ones. in france, it is actually a CRIME to insult a law enforcement officer. etc.

i have traveled extensively. i love my frigging country, and that is not based on ignorance, it's based on experience. the more i travel, the more i appreciate the USA. do i think we are flawed? of course. but we still have a great thing going on, and i am fiercely proud of my country.

[Oregone]

27. Best reply to the best strawman ever

:)

[Hawkowl]

73. She is a mastah

Perhaps the best strawman fabricator on DU.

[Vinnie From Indy]

75. Seems so!

I always get a chuckle out of her posts. It is like watching someone that knows how to fish. She tosses out the bait and just reels 'em in. It seems the fish are always biting.

[NYCGirl]

2. Obama is making fun of GLBT people. Don't forget that one. NT

[O is 44]

25. Yeah, when he was responding to a

Armenian rights advocate about Obama not using the word genocide but the guy held no animosity for the President he understood it was political. The President was not making fun of the GLBT community. I know you were kidding but had to comment.

[LanternWaste]

3. I wanna buy you a drink some day...

Seriously, you voice my unsung frustrations far more often than I do.

I wanna buy you a drink some day... :P

[FSogol]

4. You forgot to say, "this ISN'T change we can believe in"

:cry:

[David__77]

5. Straw man galore!

This should be a textbook case here.

[cali]

10. I suggest you browse through the front page of GD

my op is hardly a straw man. It's not even that much of an exaggeration.

[Lex]

19. They are still strawmen.

Do you think because someone said it here at DU already that negates them from being strawmen?

Just because you repeat a strawman assertion doesn't make it NOT one.

[BzaDem]

58. Do you even know what a strawman is?

Strawman arguments misrepresent the position of opponents. There is no misrepresentation of opponents here. Cali is simply citing actual thoughts of other DUers that are on the front page of GD.

Repeating an opponent's argument essentially verbatim DOES make the argument not a strawman. Sheesh.

[Lex]

59. Yes, and those opinions she's quoting are STILL mispresentations of the facts.

They were strawmen then, and they are strawmen now.

The "actual thoughts" are strawmen in the first place. See?

[BzaDem]

63. You are wrong. An argument that misrepresenting only facts is NOT a strawman.

I am making a strawman argument only if I am misrepresenting what someone else said. If I am not misrepresenting what someone else said, then I cannot be making a strawman argument. It has NOTHING to do with whether I am misrepresenting facts. If I were misrepresenting facts (as opposed to an opponents position), then I would be misleading, or wrong, but not making a strawman argument.

[WI_DEM]

7. Since I know you don't really feel that way I will not lose my cool

:)

[HamdenRice]

8. Roflmao! That pretty much sums it up, but your forgot, "LET IT FAIL!!!"

Because if given the choice most Americans would vote for Great Depression II, rather than New Deal/stimulus type attempts to avoid it.

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Mari333]

15. Id love to see your post

and I completely agree. rape and torture photos dont help the MIC at all..or build bloated embassies in Pakistan and Baghdad. I have seen Obama becoming another figurehead for the MIC, and I dont think hes much more then a figurehead. He isnt running the show.smoke and mirrors.

[BuyingThyme]

17. You didn't miss anything.

[T Wolf]

16. Truth. But the OP is one of the leaders of the Obama-can-do-no-wrong crowd and just loves

these snarky rants it posts.

Most of them will preface with "now I don't agree with EVERYTHING that President Obama has done, but..." but they never seem to mention what those mysterious issues are.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

22. Your post is 100% true except for two minor errors.

1. Obama isn't concealing rape and torture.

2. Obama isn't conducting wars of preemptive imperialism. Whatever the hell that mumbo jumbo means.

[BuyingThyme]

24. I don't understand how you can believe that.

You don't think concealing photos showing rape and torture is concealing rape and torture?

You don't think Obama's wars of preemptive imperialism are wars of preemptive imperialism?

Please to explain.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

41. I don't understand how you can believe global warming doesn't exist.

Yet you're an admitted global warming denier, so go figure.

"You don't think concealing photos showing rape and torture is concealing rape and torture?"

I can't look at the crime scene photos of John Benet Ramsey's murder. That doesn't mean the Colorado PD is covering up the crime. Obama isn't concealing any evidence, he isn't committing any crime, and the fact that crimes occurred is open and admitted knowledge.

"You don't think Obama's wars of preemptive imperialism are wars of preemptive imperialism? "

He's ending the war in Iraq, the war in Afghanistan is neither preemptive nor imperialistic. "Preemptive imperialism" doesn't really mean anything, it's just pseudointellectual gobbledygook from people who don't know what the fuck they're talking about.

[BuyingThyme]

50. You seem to have pathological problems with truth.

I never said, at any time, by any interpretation, that global warming doesn't exist. You made that up because you have a fear of truth.

Barack Obama is the top law-enforcement official in this country. If he knows of crimes being committed, it is his job to assure that they get prosecuted. He is doing the opposite. That is the simple truth. Again, you have a fear of truth.

Barack Obama is not ending the war in Iraq; he has extended it. He's extend it beyond anything George W. Bush ever hinted at. As for Afghanistan, Obama completely owns it. Again, simple truths. Again, you fear them.

I'm assuming that you're also having pathological problems in regards to the phrase preemptive imperialism.

I DARE you to post something truthful. I bet you can't.

[Occam Bandage]

62. I also do not understand what "preemptive imperialism" is supposed to mean.

Imperialism to prevent what?

[BuyingThyme]

67. Somebody else getting control of oil and other resources.

Or, if you like, preemptive imperialism is imperialism falsely couched in the interest of preempting terrorist attacks.

[T Wolf]

26. What do you call censoring the evidence if not "concealing?" He also surged the war against

Afghanistan while planning to continue to occupy Iraq for years/decades/ever.

I know - he's playing chess.

Well fuck it. Rape and torture are not a game, except to pukes and sycophants.

[Bucky]

11. Are you making fun of Obama's critics or his defenders?

Whichever side you're going after, you got 'em good.

[JuniperLea]

21. LOL!

I'd say both. But your post just tickles! hahahahhaha!

[Stinky The Clown]

30. DUzey Here! DUzey!

[Truth2Tell]

12. Wow. Just when I think you can't post anything dumber.

[Ikonoklast]

13. I got my pony, but sent it back.

It wasn't a pink one.

I wanted a pink one that pooped ice cream.

I got a brown one.

His poops were stinky.

Even though it was free, I sent him back.

It wasn't pink.

[spanone]

18. .

n

[JuniperLea]

20. It's really hard to eat my lunch...

With my mouth open... I can't stop laughing! This thread is gold! Pure gold!

:rofl:

I particularly like the comments about how you are part of the "Obama can do no wrong crowd" which is so freaking special it leaves me weak!

[zorahopkins]

23. No! No! NO!

The US, for the past eight long dreary year of tyranny during the national nightmare called the Bush/Cheney regime WAS THE Evil Empire.

But last November, the American People came to our senses -- we elected a man dedicated to bringing us to a day of Peace, Prosperity, Gender Equality, Justice, and Love.

How can you say that Obama is no different from Hitler?! Don't you mean BUSH/CHENEY is no different from Hitler??!!

It will take time for President Obama to clean up the terrible mess he inherited.

Why can't you give him a chance?

[Just Visiting]

28. So speaketh Moe

as Larry and Curly chime in to agree.

Nyuk, nyuk, nyuk.

[nichomachus]

31. YAWN!

You keep sucking that thumb and we're going to have rub something on it.

[JonLP24]

32. I think this post dismisses those with legitimate concerns about Obama

[SeattleGirl]

34. I didn't see it like that. I saw it as poking fun at some of the people

on DU who seem to always be pissing and moaning and gnashing their teeth over Obama, and only giving him shit about the things they don't agree with, but not speaking up AT ALL when there's a move in a direction that is closer to their positions on things.

[JonLP24]

36. It's not addressing any paticular issues or responses to those

You can find me in threads critizing Obama of re-instating tribunals, his attempts to block the photos, and lack of action in regards to DADT. But you can also find me threads such as publicly pushing the anti-foreclosure bill supporting Obama. When nearly everyone here has well over 1,000 posts I don't think people just criticize Obama when he does something wrong and never support him when he does something right. I don't believe that at all. Not unless you have a full record of every post made by those posters you or the OP reference to.

[SeattleGirl]

42. I hardly think I need a "full record" unless I am going to be under oath

or something.

And I do agree; most people here criticize when they feel it's warranted, and give kudos to Obama when they feel those are warranted.

But, I have seen a few people on here who are just itching to jump into a thread and bash Obama, regardless of the topic.

Those are the people I was referring to.

[JonLP24]

46. On the flip side

There are people who support Obama no matter what he does which is just as bad. It is wrong to single one side over the other.

[SeattleGirl]

47. I agree.

I've seen that from a few people also.

[kid a]

57. eye to eye, girl

[Ohio Joe]

33. Good post

Make no mistake, I'm pissed about some things and I want them fixed ASAP. President Obama has been on the job what... four months? I think I'll give it a bit more time for him to fix eight years worth of fucking up the country before I turn on him.

[nichomachus]

35. #####

[Adelante]

37. I think you got it

:D

[JVS]

38. I wouldn't say the US is an evil empire, but it is an overextended empire and it is impractical to..

keep operating as though we can afford to intervene in every conflict. It's time to cut the bloated military budget and rebuild our own country.

[rhett o rick]

45. Define evil empire. I think you will find we meet many of the criteria.

For example we have been messing with other countries governments forever. The CIA helped put Castro in power then turn around and try to take him out.
Similar with Hussein. We just can't keep our greedy corporate fingers out of everyone else's business. Especially if it means profits for corporations. I could go on and on. Plez stop me.

[Political Heretic]

43. Cheap, juvenile strawman tactic to demean substantive criticism.

I have come to expect nothing less from the source.

[kid a]

52. ...protest too much?

I see it as a fitting poke at the juvenile, naive, and persistent hacks unwilling to give a balanced argument on any single issue.

[rhett o rick]

44. What is the purpose of a post like this? Just curious. nm

[KG]

48. a hissy?

[Prometheus Bound]

66. A cry for attention?

[rucky]

49. Spinning straw into K&R gold!

and the hits keep coming

[Marr]

51. This is strawman shadowboxing of a level rarely found outside nutty Conservative commentary.

Congratulations.

[Zorra]

53. Nah. We're just the appointed police agency for transnational corporations.

It's not that bad. I mean, geez, Royal Dutch Shell just got a really sweet deal for all that Iraqi oil last September. That could not have happened if we didn't wipe out all those nasty little brown Iraqis for them first.

Besides, we're just following orders.
:patriot:

[kid a]

54. Thank you! K & R (Sometime a roundabout from a strawman is what it takes to make a point)

[bridgit]

55. wurd!

:kick:

[Occam Bandage]

56. Is this one of those threads where we call the repetition of actual claims in threads "straw men?"

Fun.

[Lex]

60. The "actual claims" were strawmen then, and they still are.

Even direct quotes of a strawman assertion is still a strawman.

[Occam Bandage]

61. "'we can't afford it' = nazi talk" is not a strawman. It was an honest position stated earnestly.

"What right do we have to board and inspect North Korean ships?" is not a strawman. It is an honest position stated earnestly.
"Define evil empire. I think you will find we meet many of the criteria" is not a strawman. It is an honest position stated earnestly.

[Lex]

65. "Obama's economic policies are no different from Hitler's." Earnest or not,

that's a strawman. Super-duper with a cherry on top earnest doesn't make it less so.

[proteus_lives]

64. You forgot one thing.....

Obama's real goal is to awaken sleeping Cthulhu and usher in the return of the Great Old Ones!

He's not a secret Muslim or Kenyan, Obama is a Deep One!

Ia! Ia! Ia!

:yoiks:

[Mythsaje]

68. And you happily lump legitimate criticism in with all of this.

How do I know? Because I see it all the time. Everything's hunky-dory in Cali-land and we're all a bunch of selfish, spoiled brats because we have the temerity to complain. Do some people go over the line? Maybe. Almost certainly. But each of us draws his or her OWN line--we don't get to decide where someone else's should be.

I understand you think NOT tackling the big issues and instead fiddling around the edges with smaller, less controversial ones is "making progress," but that's not the only way to look at it. And if we're not willing to seriously examine what's going on and how much is getting done, and where it stacks up against what we'd like to see, we're just pretending to actually give a shit and might as well be spending our time on some TV show or celebrity blog.

Do you not understand that "compromise" requires that actual negotiations take place? That one side asks for a lot more than they want or need and the other side answers back with a far smaller amount more in keeping with what THEY want out of the deal? And somewhere down the line they meet at some place approximately in the middle? Except that's not what's happening here, is it? We NEED or WANT this much, but all we're asking for is a fraction of it. We'll be lucky to get any. Even with the Republicans out of favor, we're STILL letting them set the tone--taking hesitant steps to avoid being attacked and, yet, are being attacked anyway. So what do we gain, exactly? I'm not sure. I know we lose the support of many parts of the coalition that helped make this victory happen.

If nothing else, there should be a visible attempt to address many of these issues rather than trying to shunt off discussion into a few narrow "positive" areas.



I know, I know. You'll NEVER see my point. To you I'm a "far-left extremist" and a whiner and should just go have a tall glass of shut the fuck up. Except that I won't. Except that I'm (dare I say it) a rational voice for the perspective of a certain percentage of Democrats and, no matter how much you'd like me to go away, I feel obligated to call it like I see it.

[Blue_In_AK]

69. I wish I could recommend your post, Mythsage. n/t

[LatteLibertine]

70. Well

IMO he's still better than the alternative of McSame and Mooselini.

[Greyhound]

72. He is, and that's the problem.

The evil of two lessers. South Park did their episode on this issue years ago, the choice between douche bag and turd sandwich.

But hey, there's a choice so it must be democracy and all is well.

[BlooInBloo]

71. Now THAT'S how to be a good little DUer whiner parrot!

[Selatius]

74. Hitler's economic policies were probably a bit more left than even Obama's

Keep in mind in Hitler's day socialism and unionism were very prevalent in the working classes of Germans and of Europeans in general. There was a time when America had a strong labor movement as well. The NAZI party had to cater to that in order to win enough votes to get its foot in the door.

[iamthebandfanman]

76. yup

just another example of someone exploiting the will and plite of workers.

instead of fixing an economic situation tho, hitler blamed the jews for all the problems.
which is frightening similar to whats happening in Hungary right now.

same with stalin, exploited the workers movement for his own devices...
same with mao too..

i dont think there has been a leader of a socialist/communist/workers movement that hasnt ultimately exploited all that was gained for personal or small group goals and ambitions...

thus giving all socialist worker movements a bad name.
i always tell people communism died with lenin, and the nail was driven into the coffin when stalin exiled trotsky...

ironic hitler used workers rights to get into power, then proclaimed communism was the devil and should be wiped off the face of the earth....


i always love getting into 'discussions' about the nazis and stalinists with fundies... they typically have such a warped view of how things actually went down in WW2.

ive seen people proclaim hitler was a communist. ive heard people proclaim they were one and the same, and the russians hated jewish people too...
only one problem with that... the majority of revolutionists involved in the workers movement in eastern europe were... dun dun dun... jewish. lol.

[Selatius]

77. I get headaches whenever discussing Stalin or Hitler's policies with ultra-rightists.

Then again, I often end the conversation by asking why I even broached the topic with that group in the first place. Yeah, I've seen the tired argument repeated that Hitler was a creature of the left, not the right, ignoring the fact that left wingers of the era detested Hitler for his cozy relationship with big business, a fact even Stalin played upon in painting the west as evil to his public.